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ironballs
2006-May-06, 12:52 AM
SATS are given to children in the UK, my friend's daughter (11yr) had some revision notes by her teacher that said the Earth orbits the Sun in an anti-clockwise direction.

Of course the notes assume the observer is looking 'down' on the solar system but looking 'up', Earth would rotate in a clockwise direction.

UK education, going right down the wormhole

Dragon Star
2006-May-06, 12:54 AM
Lol, just a nitpick though, it is Counterclockwise, not anti-clockwise.

Gillianren
2006-May-06, 02:39 AM
Lol, just a nitpick though, it is Counterclockwise, not anti-clockwise.

In America, yes. However, if you'll note the location of the OP, that location isn't America; it's somewhere where they say anti-clockwise.

Dragon Star
2006-May-06, 02:56 AM
In America, yes. However, if you'll note the location of the OP, that location isn't America; it's somewhere where they say anti-clockwise.

:doh:No joke? Hmm...sorry then, my bad.

cjl
2006-May-06, 06:44 AM
Yep - it's anti-clockwise on the other side of the puddle.

Another effect of that backwards UK education ;)

Roy Batty
2006-May-06, 03:49 PM
Yep - it's anti-clockwise on the other side of the puddle.

Another effect of that backwards UK education ;)

Actually, it's retrograde UK education, thank you very much!:D

ironballs
2006-May-06, 11:22 PM
Roy, I doubt very much our education teaches the word retrograde anymore. More likely the teachers will say, "The other way around"

Ironballs

TheBlackCat
2006-May-07, 12:42 AM
Since when do the SAT's test specific knowledge? Or are these SAT II's?

Skyywatcher
2006-May-07, 01:03 AM
The Sat test belongs in the trash. It's just another scam. We should be used to those by now.

Gillianren
2006-May-07, 03:29 AM
Since when do the SAT's test specific knowledge? Or are these SAT II's?

Different test. The SATs in America are college prep exams; this is something with a similar name in England. (No, I don't have any more information than that; I'm just piecing together from the OP.)

Infinity Watcher
2006-May-07, 11:13 AM
Different test. The SATs in America are college prep exams; this is something with a similar name in England. (No, I don't have any more information than that; I'm just piecing together from the OP.)
Spot on Gillianren, SAT tests in England (I think they're more technically called National tests now but most people think of them as SATs as that's what they are more or less they just changed the name) are given to children in years (let me see if I can remember this right, thank goodness for wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Curriculum_assessment))
at age 7, 11 and 14 (year 2, 6 and 9, actually the 3rd 7th and 10th year of schooling due to the presence of "Reception" in the school system for the first year) and basically test whether the childrens education is in line with the national curriculum (which states what children should know at various stages), thats the theory anyway, whether they actually tell anything useful is one of those knotty little problems that has arguements on both sides (including "teaching to the exam" for those against it and the importance of knowing where children are at for those for it) they have no impact on university entrance (that's done on AS/A2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Subsidiary) levels and to a much lesser extent GCSEs (basically Universities like to see good GCSEs, especially those that are oversubscribed and may use them as a tie-break, especally those Universities that decide not to look at AS levels.
EDIT due to losing the plot in typing out the ages at which SATs are given

Gillianren
2006-May-07, 06:36 PM
Spot on Gillianren . . . .

I always did well in reading comprehension. What's most important regarding this conversation is looking in the little "location" header.

Roy Batty
2006-May-08, 10:43 AM
Going back to the original post, It's not bad that it's taught as being an anticlockwise orbit, since that is the convention (retrograde (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=retrograde) would be clockwise), it's just bad if it's not explained what the convention is.

Goombella
2006-May-09, 06:56 PM
As an actual science teacher, molding the tender minds of this great nation's acne ridden youth, I can assure you all that retrograde planetary motion is neither here nor there. Most school masters are far more concerned with getting them to understand that it is in fact the Sun that is at the centre of the solar system and not them nor their cousin nor indeed their absent mother.

Retrograde or otherwise it is not something that they are assessed on in their recent NATs, I hope this puts all your minds at rest. As long as your "friend's" no doubt delightful daughter scrawled her name and a sentence involving the words axis and orbit she will surely have achieved the much coveted NAT level of 5.

Gillianren
2006-May-09, 08:01 PM
Welcome--and thanks for the laugh!

One_Propeller
2006-Jun-06, 07:49 AM
Lol, just a nitpick though, it is Counterclockwise, not anti-clockwise.

And here I thought it was Widdershins!

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jun-06, 09:07 AM
with´ershins, widd´er-, adv. (Sc.). In a direction contrary to apparent course of sun (considered as unlucky), counter-clockwise, [f. MLG weddersins (MHG wider against, sin direction)]

You though right.

Source The Concise Oxford Dictionary, which incidentally lists counterclockwise but not anticlockwise. :)
Anticlockwise is listed in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary with a reference to couterclockwise as more common in US english.

My reference books are actually physically closer to my eyes than my computer screen. :)

Gillianren
2006-Jun-06, 07:25 PM
My best friend prefers widdershins; I have to agree that it's just a cooler word.

Maksutov
2006-Jun-16, 08:40 AM
In astronomical terminology, retrograde mainly refers to the apparent "backwards" movement of the inferior and superior planets as the Earth moves toward them or they approach the Earth, then as they arrive at opposition or inferior conjunction, and as the Earth moves away from them or they move away from the Earth.

It can also refer to "backwards" orbits and planetary rotation.

Here's a simple explanation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_motion) with a few illustrated examples.

Cevlakohn
2006-Jun-22, 09:23 PM
Of course the notes assume the observer is looking 'down' on the solar system but looking 'up', Earth would rotate in a clockwise direction.

No matter how many times I read that, it doesn't make any more sense. And I, being ignorant, am left wondering: What direction does the Earth revolve around the sun?

hhEb09'1
2006-Jun-22, 11:06 PM
No matter how many times I read that, it doesn't make any more sense.If you look at a clock, it turns clockwise. But if you were to stand behind the clock and were able to see through it, it would appear to turn counterclockwise. That's ironballs's point, I think
And I, being ignorant, am left wondering: What direction does the Earth revolve around the sun?If you were in space above Earth north pole, it would appear to revolve counterclockwise.

zenbudda
2006-Jun-23, 01:50 AM
i'm still curious though. what is the standard/accepted direction of north/south? is north the positive pole and south the negative pole? or am i off altogether?

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jun-23, 04:07 AM
North is the direction you're looking when the sun rises to your right and sets to your left.
This is true whether you're on the north or south hemisphere and doesn't depend on the magnetic poles of the earth which are moving around anyway and can occationally switch places.

You can't really talk about positive or negative poles when talking magnetism, since positive/negative is about different amounts of electrical charges which only show magnetism when they move.

Cevlakohn
2006-Jun-23, 10:59 PM
If you look at a clock, it turns clockwise. But if you were to stand behind the clock and were able to see through it, it would appear to turn counterclockwise. That's ironballs's point, I thinkIf you were in space above Earth north pole, it would appear to revolve counterclockwise.

That's almost insulting. I know what clockwise/anticlockwise means, and I know what you all mean by "up" and "down". It just seems that the original poster contradicts himself.

Dragon Star
2006-Jun-23, 11:26 PM
I made one simple little comment almost 2 months ago, and you all are still discussing about it.:D I find this highly amusing...

hhEb09'1
2006-Jun-24, 06:29 PM
That's almost insulting. I know what clockwise/anticlockwise means, and I know what you all mean by "up" and "down". It just seems that the original poster contradicts himself.I'm not sure what it was that didn't make sense to you, so I covered all the bases, I wasn't trying to define clockwise. I don't see where the OP contradicts himself, though he may have meant "revolve" when he said "rotate." Still, I don't see any inaccuracies.

Welcome to the BAUT, by the way.

Cevlakohn
2006-Jul-03, 01:07 AM
I'm not sure what it was that didn't make sense to you, so I covered all the bases, I wasn't trying to define clockwise. I don't see where the OP contradicts himself, though he may have meant "revolve" when he said "rotate." Still, I don't see any inaccuracies.

Welcome to the BAUT, by the way.

In retrospect, the meaning is quite obvious to me as well. :think: Things are just like that I suppose,, and sorry 'bout the hostility. I know it's hard to know just how stupid or not a new member is.