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View Full Version : Alderran exploding then collapsing back into a planet?



hewhocaves
2006-May-12, 09:15 PM
I'm looking for a serious answer here :-) (although the topic, when it came up among friends was very humorous).

Is it likely that Alderaan (post death star) would eventually accrete back into a (presumably) smaller planet? If you want to speculate on the mechanism that would cause it to explode outward rather than simply put a big hole in it's side, that's great too... but i don't think that that's necessary to the original question.

Follow up questions would be "how long for reaccretion" and "how much more energy (ifyou want to go that route) would be necessary to blast enough of the planet away so that reaccretion is impossible? A collorary would be "which is more desirable: allowing for reforming the planet or eliminating the planet from orbit?

John

(PS: feel free to move this to another subforum)

novaderrik
2006-May-13, 07:10 AM
are you kidding? that's a silly question..
we all know they wouldn't allow it to re-accrete into a planet, so it could be used as the backdrop for their version of Hollywood to use as a location to shoot cool chase scenes that involve the dodging of asteroids at high speeds..
or, it would be a theme park of some sort.
of course, there's probably a few million bodies of people and animals- not to mention trees and what not- just kind of floating around out there, so one would have to use great caution when flying around the asteroid field at great speeds..

Dark Helmet
2006-May-13, 07:43 AM
Not likely, remember, the DS did not just blow up Alderaan, it blew it up very VIOLENTLY. According to Mike Wong's page on the Death Star destruction, the debris from the planet was travelling at about 11,000 km/s to 12,000 km/s("Alderaan").

The end of the explosion of the planet show that most of the debris has rapidly dispersed from the area, meaning that the likelyhood

_________________________________
Wong, Michael. "Alderaan: Planet of Traitors." 08 March 2002. StarDestroyer.Net. 13 May 2006. <http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Alderaan.html>.

darkhunter
2006-May-13, 04:06 PM
Not likely, remember, the DS did not just blow up Alderaan, it blew it up very VIOLENTLY. According to Mike Wong's page on the Death Star destruction, the debris from the planet was travelling at about 11,000 km/s to 12,000 km/s("Alderaan").

The end of the explosion of the planet show that most of the debris has rapidly dispersed from the area, meaning that the likelyhood

_________________________________
Wong, Michael. "Alderaan: Planet of Traitors." 08 March 2002. StarDestroyer.Net. 13 May 2006. <http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Alderaan.html>.

However, given the density of the asteroid feild shown in the movie, it will eventually collapse into a planet/planetoid--much smaller than the original.

Also, the asteroid feild the Falcon flew into in The Empire Strikes Back will also eventually collapse into a planet....

hewhocaves
2006-May-13, 04:59 PM
However, given the density of the asteroid feild shown in the movie, it will eventually collapse into a planet/planetoid--much smaller than the original.

Also, the asteroid feild the Falcon flew into in The Empire Strikes Back will also eventually collapse into a planet....

agreed. the asteroids are far too close in both cases. any idea as to the time scale?

john

PS: forgive me if I remain skeptical of anything from SD.net. Their work is certainly.... imaginative.

Romanus
2006-May-13, 05:15 PM
If the planet were *just* destroyed, it would probably reaccrete very rapidly, though of course it would be uninhabitable. As aforementioned however, the explosion was probably high-velocity.

ToSeek
2006-May-14, 02:18 AM
Anyone want to calculate just how much energy it would take to blow a planet apart so that it wouldn't come back together?

EDIT: I had some time, so I figured I'd calculate it myself. If the amount of energy it would take to push the planet Earth to escape velocity is a good approximation, that would be 7.5264 * 10^32 joules, or as much energy as current human civilization would use in 1.7 trillion years, or as much energy as the Sun generates in 2-1/4 days. Impressive weapon!

hewhocaves
2006-May-15, 04:04 AM
If the planet were *just* destroyed, it would probably reaccrete very rapidly, though of course it would be uninhabitable. As aforementioned however, the explosion was probably high-velocity.

I'm not altogether certian where it specifically states that it blew up with such velocity that it precludes reaccretion. But then again, the dialogue has gotten so bad in the prequels that I sometimes feel like they're reading the Washington DC phone book out loud. At least the literary styles are similar.

AAAAAnnnyway... Thanks, ToSeek for giving us some kind of perspective about the power requirements. Personally, I'm wondering if it's better to have it reaccrete. There might be some interesting things, geologically, that you can get by basically *undifferentiating* a planet.

John

Doodler
2006-May-15, 04:09 PM
The stories of the EU never got into it much, beyond reference to the Alderaan Asteroid Field being referred to as "The Graveyard".

I suppose it can be shunted off as poor science, but from what I gathered of descriptions of the Alderaan field in EU books, there wasn't much left of the core. If the disruption of the planet was such that the Death Star's laser bored down to the core and flash evaporated or destroyed it, there wouldn't be much of a central mass left to accrete to. It would more likely end up a field of large asteroids like the Trojans.

Another thing that's never been discussed was whether Alderaan had any moons, which if it did, they'd more likely end up the inheritors of the bulk of the main planet's free mass.

HenrikOlsen
2006-May-15, 06:04 PM
Anyone want to calculate just how much energy it would take to blow a planet apart so that it wouldn't come back together?

EDIT: I had some time, so I figured I'd calculate it myself. If the amount of energy it would take to push the planet Earth to escape velocity is a good approximation, that would be 7.5264 * 10^32 joules, or as much energy as current human civilization would use in 1.7 trillion years, or as much energy as the Sun generates in 2-1/4 days. Impressive weapon!
In my mind, this figure too large, though I can't tell by how much just by guessing.

If you look at the earth as a series if concentric shells, the escape velocity of each successive shell will go down, as the mass inside the shells become less as you go down, so the correct answer would need to integrate over radius, with diminishing gravity pulling on each part as you go in.

ioresult
2006-May-16, 05:36 PM
Go take a look at this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_binding_energy
It gives the gravitational binding energy formula. That is, the amount of energy to pump into an object to completely counteract the effect of gravity on its constituent particles. It also says that, for the Earth, it's roughly the equivalent of the total energy output of the Sun for one whole week. I must say that for me, the difference between 2.25 and 7 days of solar energy output doesn't make very damn much of a difference. Both are a hell of a lot of energy!

ToSeek
2006-May-16, 05:49 PM
I messed up by a factor of 10 - my figure is for 22 days of solar energy output, not 2.25.

The gravitational binding energy result is actually about a third of mine, which makes sense given Henrik's point. Still the same order of magnitude, though. :D

herzeleid
2006-May-16, 05:59 PM
If you look at the earth as a series if concentric shells, the escape velocity of each successive shell will go down, as the mass inside the shells become less as you go down, so the correct answer would need to integrate over radius, with diminishing gravity pulling on each part as you go in.

Been done. Here's a couple of examples.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar.html
http://www.karlscalculus.org/calc11_1.html

mike alexander
2006-May-17, 03:31 AM
I always thought the imaprted velocity felt a bit faster, but I've never studied the explosion frame by frame. Not that I'm ever likely to.

Chuck
2006-May-18, 06:00 AM
A piece of Alderran just landed in my back yard. I'll be selling it on eBay shortly.

Sticks
2006-May-18, 07:35 AM
How about a weapon that converted some matter to anti-matter?

Or even better, applying Occam's rasor and say that George Lucus did not do the math . . .

Halcyon Dayz
2006-May-18, 01:34 PM
Or even better, applying Occam's razor and say that George Lucas did not do the math . . .
At least that would be consistent with every thing else.

Doodler
2006-May-18, 09:08 PM
There's only one form of math for Lucas to do with respect to Star Wars...

ka-CHING!
ka-CHING!
ka-CHING!

Disinfo Agent
2006-May-18, 10:17 PM
Another thing that's never been discussed was whether Alderaan had any moons, which if it did, they'd more likely end up the inheritors of the bulk of the main planet's free mass.One of the characters says it didn't, in Episode IV.

publiusr
2006-May-19, 07:16 PM
Too bad they didn't have the Genesis device in that Genre--they could have just turned the Death Star into Alderan II.