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kucharek
2003-Mar-28, 01:04 PM
Discussing "The Core" in the Bad Movies forum made me asking the question if the Earth is of some interest to astronomers.
Sure, they put their telescopes on it, but the Earth also puts that bloody atmosphere in front of their lenses and mirrors and is inhabited by those light and radio polluting beings...
You need the Earth to have the Moon, but for the rest of the solar system, it wouldn't change anything if the Earth suddenly would call it quits.

Comments?

Harald

sacrelicious
2003-Mar-28, 01:27 PM
earth is of some practical interest to astronomers, as it provides them a point of reference, and since without it there might not even be astronomers, but it is not at all a subject of their study, if that's what you mean. the earth is the academic domain of geologists, biologists, oceanographers, enviromental scientists, and other schools of science, but astronomy is about the study of everything but the earth and its products.

gethen
2003-Mar-28, 01:27 PM
Well, I agree that there are light polluting beings here (some just moved in next door and I'm trying to think of a way to repel the invasion) but I think the earth has interest as an astronomical object. The geological processes observed here are repeated in some measure on other planets in our own system. The study of ancient impact craters has aided our understanding of asteroids. Or maybe I just find geology almost as interesting as astronomy and want there to be a connection.

Argos
2003-Mar-28, 01:40 PM
Well, Earth is a planet, isn´t it? Planets are important to astronomy. :)

Once I was reprimanded by BA for posting about the cloud of pollution over Asia. He said it was not astronomy-related. I defended the post and he ended up maintaining it unlocked. IMO, we should be allowed to talk about Geophysics, Geology, Meteorology and the like in this board. I think the Earth geology and atmosphere are very relevant for astronomy, since astronomers (lato sensu) do study the same entities in other planets.

And what´s more, when you are in the Moon or Mars, Earth probably becomes the most important astronomical object in the universe. Who´ll deny?

kilopi
2003-Mar-28, 02:37 PM
Me.

Speaking as a geophysics buff who likes to discuss geophysics even at the BABB, I still say you're all wet. Or would that be meteorology? :)

Seriously, the BA allows a lot of latitude already, and I don't think we should disregard his opinions. There are plenty of other boards to discuss the other topics near and dear to us--and he allows announcements here of those other meeting areas. People here have set up chat rooms and such.

beskeptical
2003-Mar-28, 10:29 PM
Sheesh! Of course it's of interest.

Are you suggesting we leave the Earth out of planetary science discussions? Or that we leave Earth meteorology out of planetary meteorology?

There is also a place for biology in the science of astronomy when you address the question of living organisms in the Universe.

Leaving the Earth out seems akin to saying the Earth is not part of the galaxy. A version of geocentrism perhaps? And along the line of humans are not part of the animal kingdom?

kilopi
2003-Mar-29, 12:25 AM
Of course it's of interest.

Are you suggesting we leave the Earth out of planetary science discussions? Or that we leave Earth meteorology out of planetary meteorology?
What about the example given, pollution in Asia?

Argos
2003-Mar-29, 12:32 AM
Kilopi:

Seriously, the BA allows a lot of latitude already, and I don't think we should disregard his opinions.


Surely I recognize it, and it was never my intention to disregrad his opinions. In the Asia cloud episode I thank him for letting the thread go, even empowered to lock it, as usual. It was a very nice attitude.

Argos
2003-Mar-29, 12:59 AM
The Kalmbach Publishing Co., which publishes "Astronomy" magazine (I may be outdated), also issues a magazine called "Earth", as the majority of you know. It is the way they found for not "contaminating" astronomy with Earthly affairs. I think is this kind of approach Kilopi is talking about. I personally favor a broader "latitude". For instance, the fact that computer science is astronomy-related is what “legitimates” the bulk of the posts by HUb´ (which I appreciate). That´s a broad view of astronomy.

kilopi
2003-Mar-29, 01:22 AM
For instance, the fact that computer science is astronomy-related is what “legitimates” the bulk of the posts by HUb´
I disagree with that. I think HUb' is actually the person that the BA aspires to be. Don't we all.

beskeptical
2003-Mar-29, 02:16 AM
Of course it's of interest.

Are you suggesting we leave the Earth out of planetary science discussions? Or that we leave Earth meteorology out of planetary meteorology?
What about the example given, pollution in Asia?

It's all in the context. If I were considering the effects of particulates in the air and planetary climates, why wouldn't that relate to astronomy? Global warming, snowball Earth, etc. have astronomy components.

Now if I wanted to discuss the politics of global warming, that seems a bit of a stretch.

Argos
2003-Mar-29, 11:57 AM
Now if I wanted to discuss the politics of global warming, that seems a bit of a stretch.

A final little word on it: the Asia cloud case was not intended to be a political manifest. I tried to relate it to atmospheric dynamics, which I think is of major interest to astronomy (those who spend a couple of nights per year observing Jupiter GRS would agree, perhaps).

astronomymanjoe
2003-Mar-29, 12:34 PM
does that mean that the moon is not important in astronomy or is the moon not (considered) a product.

my (opion) is yes. just not to the earth astronomers. To peoplle like me you study other planets it is very important, because this is the only other planet we have found to have some technology. the others have a wheel and think it is (speacial.)

()= mispelled

kilopi
2003-Mar-29, 10:08 PM
A final little word on it: the Asia cloud case was not intended to be a political manifest. I tried to relate it to atmospheric dynamics, which I think is of major interest to astronomy (those who spend a couple of nights per year observing Jupiter GRS would agree, perhaps).
The only post of yours about pollution in Asia that I could find is this one (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=31960#31960), and it doesn't seem to have anything about atmospheric dynamics. Where did BA reprimand you, he didn't seem to post to that thread?

beskeptical
2003-Mar-30, 10:48 AM
I hadn't even thought of pollution interference with observing, definitely astronomy.

Gee Grapes, did you really go back through all the posts since Argos started? Man, that's one for YKYAaBABBAW.... :)

kilopi
2003-Mar-30, 11:28 AM
Gee Grapes, did you really go back through all the posts since Argos started?
Sure, no effort in the pursuit of nitpicking is too great. :)

Actually, the search engine lists only three posts by Argos that contain the word Asia. And one of them is in this thread.

But thanks for bringing that up. I just found out that this new search engine doesn't work the way the previous one did. I did a new search for posts by Argos that contain the word pollution, and I found a thread that Argos started called The Asian Shadow (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2100&start=0). That's clearly what Argos was referring to, as the second post was a query from the BA.

The previous search engine would have returned that thread, as it would have found "Asia" in "Asian".

liglats
2003-Mar-30, 01:27 PM
IMHO, we have got to the stage where we are looking to find other planets, and the possibility of the evolution of extraterrestrial life. But before we can understand/guess at what is going on off the planet, we need to know what's going on here.

For example, we have theorised that there may be life on Europa, based on the knowledge that life exists in the deep ocean around hot geo-thermal vents. Had we not known about geo-thermal vents on Earth then we could not have made the Europan assumption.

So a knowledge of the Earth's creation structure and systems could be of benefit to astronomers.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Argos
2003-Mar-31, 12:46 AM
thread that Argos started called The Asian Shadow (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2100&start=0). That's clearly what Argos was referring to, as the second post was a query from the BA.

The previous search engine would have returned that thread, as it would have found "Asia" in "Asian".

Ok. That´s it.

I remember to have started another thread related to Earth´s atmosphere with the title "Earth´s Giant Infra-red Spot", about a large high- pressure zone, almost circular, stalled over Central South America, in the years of 2000 to 2002, preventing the Antarctic cooling frontal systems from reaching to the north. Seen by satellite it showed like an empty space surrounded by clouds, a perfectly outlined circle. It was a very interesting phenomenon. As it was made of hot air I dubbed it Earth´s Giant Infra-red Spot. It was definitely something related to atmospheric dynamics.

Argos
2003-Mar-31, 12:48 AM
thread that Argos started called The Asian Shadow (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2100&start=0). That's clearly what Argos was referring to, as the second post was a query from the BA.

The previous search engine would have returned that thread, as it would have found "Asia" in "Asian".

Ok. That´s it.

I remember to have started another thread related to Earth´s atmosphere with the title "Earth´s Giant Infra-red Spot", about a large high- pressure zone, almost circular, stalled over Central South America in the years of 2000 to 2002, preventing the Antarctic cooling frontal systems from reaching to the north. Seen by satellite it showed like an empty space surrounded by clouds, a perfectly outlined circle. It was a very interesting phenomenon. As it was made of hot air I dubbed it Earth´s Giant Infra-red Spot. It was definitely something related to atmospheric dynamics. But I couldn´t find it with the new search engine.