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Musashi
2006-May-23, 03:51 AM
I just saw a commercial for the 11 o'clock news that showed a picture of jet contrails with the caption "Toxic Sky". :(

Krel
2006-May-23, 04:25 AM
"Bad NBC news"

Oh, that is such a loaded title. It's like shooting fish in a barrel, where do you begin? :lol:

David.

sarongsong
2006-May-23, 09:19 AM
Voila!
Toxic Sky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RABRI8q4EI&search=toxic%20sky) (00:00:30)
...Is the weather being modified by the government?...Parenthetically, a recent TV presentation on the tug-of-war between global dimming/warming noted that a 2 degree F. difference was measured before and at the end of the 3-day 9/11 flight ban---the first opportunity to measure the overall effect of flight contrails.

Musashi
2006-May-23, 03:29 PM
Ah, thank you Sarongsong.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2006-May-23, 04:13 PM
that's just nasty

Doe, John
2006-May-25, 02:15 AM
a 2 degree F. difference was measured before and at the end of the 3-day 9/11 flight ban---the first opportunity to measure the overall effect of flight contrails.

of course. the ban on flight had to be the cause of that change. and where exactly was that change measured? you're saying that across the usa there was only a two degree change in temperature over a three day period?

Maksutov
2006-May-25, 04:06 AM
that's just nastyFor some strange reason, the voice in my head spoke that with a Cleveland Brown (http://familyguy.neoseeker.com/family_guy_volume_4_season_5/Movie/pages/cleveland_brown/) accent. ;)

sarongsong
2006-May-25, 07:26 AM
of course. the ban on flight had to be the cause of that change. and where exactly was that change measured? you're saying that across the usa there was only a two degree change in temperature over a three day period?Averaged day/night temperature difference:
...David Travis of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and two colleagues measured the difference, over those three contrail-free days, between the highest daytime temperature and the lowest nighttime temperature across the continental U.S. They compared those data with the average range in day-night temperatures for the period 1971-2000, again across the contiguous 48 states. Travis's team discovered that from roughly midday September 11 to midday September 14, the days had become warmer and the nights cooler, with the overall range greater by about two degrees Fahrenheit...
NOVA: Dimming the Sun - The Contrail Effect (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/contrail.html)

Gillianren
2006-May-25, 10:41 AM
I have to say, I consider that insufficient data. What would they be saying if those days had instead been the opposite of what they'd expected? (Besides, I'm pretty sure we ended up getting rain. But we're Washington, so we pretty much always get rain.)

Jim
2006-May-25, 12:58 PM
One of our local TV stations (Channel 2) has a Two Degree Guarantee in their weather forecasts; if they say the high will be 90, then it should be between 88-92.

If a local weathercaster can offer a Two Degree Guarantee, finding a 2 degree swing in average temps doesn't impress me too much.

Swift
2006-May-25, 02:00 PM
One of our local TV stations (Channel 2) has a Two Degree Guarantee in their weather forecasts; if they say the high will be 90, then it should be between 88-92.

If a local weathercaster can offer a Two Degree Guarantee, finding a 2 degree swing in average temps doesn't impress me too much.
What do they do if they don't meet the target, refund your money?

sarongsong
2006-May-26, 10:37 PM
I have to say, I consider that insufficient data...Oh well...it met Nature (http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020805/full/020805-7.html;jsessionid=5BA32723DB9E30A4D026FA78AD5F7B82 ) and Scientific American (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0001762D-755C-1D51-90FB809EC5880000)'s criteria for publication.

Big Brother Dunk
2006-May-27, 03:06 AM
I recall that Art Bell was a big proponent of toxic contrails. Maybe he's working for NBC News now?

jfribrg
2006-May-27, 11:49 AM
As far as I know, the 9/11 temperature study is legitimate. IIRC, the authors do mention the sparse data ( which is conveniently not mentioned by media outlets reporting on the study). On the other hand, this is not just a single data point. We had several days without air traffic. Like everyone I know, 9/11 has been burned into my memory, but for some reason the month following 9/11 is a bit of a blur to me. I believe it was 3 or 4 days that were without air traffic. That is enough time for weather systems to move across the country, and with the number of weather stations we have, that would give a large amount of data, large enough to eliminate almost all variables as the cause of the systemic discrepancy. I also recall the authors stating that they hope we dont have another opportunity to collect more data !. One final thought: how you can take that study and manage to get the word "toxic" into the ad for the report is beyond me.

Gillianren
2006-May-27, 05:37 PM
Yes, but it could've been a statistical anomaly nonetheless. Sure, it lasted a few days, but a few days of weather can be odd regardless of air traffic, as we've experienced often enough.

aurora
2006-Jun-01, 03:49 PM
Small sample size theatre.