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Dave Mitsky
2006-May-28, 07:38 AM
I saw "X-Men: The Last Stand" last night. Having read the reviews at http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/x_men_3_the_last_stand/ (52% currently on the Tomatometer) beforehand, I expected to leave the theater disappointed but I must say that I enjoyed this third installment in the X-Men saga. It's not perfect to be sure, some of the plot holes may be necessary as setups for the next film and character development is at a minimum, but I felt that I got my $8.00 worth of mutant entertainment. A word to the wise: stay in your seats until all the credits have rolled.

I found myself more or less in agreement with Roger Ebert's review of the movie at http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060525/REVIEWS/60509005/1023

Dave Mitsky

Count Zero
2006-May-28, 09:32 AM
I also found myself pleasantly surprised by it. I had heard that the production was rushed, and was afraid that it would only be mindless action. Instead, it really felt like a good issue of the Uncanny X-Men comic. It had exactly that mix of complex issues, engaging personal moments and superhero brawls large & small. To be sure, the script could have gone through a few more drafts, but it was comfortably better than most brain-dead Hollywood effluvia. Considering the size of this huge ensemble cast, they did a commendable job of spreading the screen time around. I'll say this for the director: He knows how to get a good performance out of young actors. If only George Lucas could have learned that lesson...

Rick
(who has always wanted to use the word "effluvia" in a post, even if he's not sure how it's spelled)

Gillianren
2006-May-28, 09:47 AM
Just like that, Rick. Right on!

My thoughts available here--http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?username=gillianren.

eburacum45
2006-May-28, 10:24 AM
I have been an X-Men fan for (nigh-on) forty years (my god!) and I am intrigued by the casting in this film (not that I have seen it yet). Kelsey Grammer School as the Beast? Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut? So crazy it might just work.

Count Zero
2006-May-28, 10:38 AM
Of the entire cast, Jones had the worst problems with the script. Grammer was letter perfect. I mean, who else could sell you "Oh my stars and garters!"? In a blink-and-you-missed-it throwaway moment, they justified gentleman Hank's open-shirted uniform. :)

Dave Mitsky
2006-May-28, 10:43 AM
I have been an X-Men fan for (nigh-on) forty years (my god!) and I am intrigued by the casting in this film (not that I have seen it yet). Kelsey Grammer School as the Beast? Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut? So crazy it might just work.

Actually, I thought Grammer was great as the Beast. Although Jones made rather large holes as the Juggernaut, he had a small part as far as speaking was concerned. He apparently will be back for the fourth and fifth ("I've signed for X-Men 3, 4 and 5...that's my contract...yes." ) X-Men flicks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinnie_Jones

Dave Mitsky

Glom
2006-May-28, 10:44 AM
I agree with Ebert too. Good popcorn. I was surprised by the mutantcide rate though. And did Evil Jean work for anyone else, huh, huh, huh?

Metricyard
2006-May-28, 11:28 AM
I gave it a B-, compaired to the other two.

The movie could have used another 45 minutes for some character development, but on the whole, I enjoyed it. I loved the scene at Jeans house(when she was older). Nice piece of FX work

I was also very impressed with Kelsey Grammer. He did a great job.
Mystigue looked better in blue.

I must say that Weta Digital has come a long way in the FX department. Definitely a movie to see if you like eye candy.

Dave Mitsky
2006-May-28, 11:37 AM
I gave it a B-, compaired to the other two.

The movie could have used another 45 minutes for some character development, but on the whole, I enjoyed it. I loved the scene at Jeans house(when she was older). Nice piece of FX work

I was also very impressed with Kelsey Grammer. He did a great job.
Mystigue looked better in blue.

I must say that Weta Digital has come a long way in the FX department. Definitely a movie to see if you like eye candy.

I don't know about an additional 45 minutes but the movie did feel a bit too short to me too.

I certainly agree that the special effects were impressive.

Dave

parallaxicality
2006-May-28, 02:31 PM
It's nice to know I'm not alone in liking this movie. Given the passion with which issues are often discussed on this forum I half-expected it to be torn to pieces by the time I logged on. Too often online I have encountered rabid fanboys (who, let's face it, were duty-bound to hate this movie before it even opened) who complain endlessly about how it's plot was not a carbon copy of the comic books. My feeling is, if changes don't take away from the original story, (and come on, it's a bloody comic book; how much could a movie possibly take away?) then who cares? Juggernaut isn't a mutant! Waah! I wanted some weird Vietnamese demon called Cyttorak and a power crystal! Dark Phoenix is an alien! Waah! I wanted the Earth to be visited by aliens called the Shi'ar with feathers on their heads! Personally I like that the movies have strived for a more realistic world than the comics. It makes the issues they raise more relevant.

Spoilers ahead, naturally.

Things I liked about this movie:

Stewart and McKellen both give the best performances they've given in the trilogy. McKellen is handed a far more complex and sympathetic role in this movie than in the first two, and, like the master actor he is, he sezes the opportunity to add depth to a fairly shallow character.

Kelsey Grammer is wonderful as Beast. He seems to be having a ball in the role and, given the rather slim range of characters he's been hired to play since quitting Frasier, I can see why.

The cure is depicted realistically, as both a blessing and a curse. That Rogue took it was bad for future sequels, but it made perfect sense for her long-suffering character.

The effects of the Phoenix persona were subtle and unnerving, rather than grandiose and cosmic.

For all the trash heaped on the film for focusing on Storm and Wolverine, Iceman and Pyro get decent screen time too; I particularly liked the end when Iceman finally came of age and adopted his ultimate form.

I honestly didn't see the fate of Magneto coming. I really felt sorry for him, actually. For him that would quite literally have been worse than death. I'd almost say he didn't deserve it, if he hadn't managed just a few minutes before to murder half the traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge.

Things I didn't like:

Angel. Great casting, great, sympathetic character. Too little screen time. His change of heart from wanting to cut his wings off to flying away from the cure is never explained.

Leech. Eerie, pretty-faced kid, but again too little-seen. Obviously, that Magneto wants to kill him is bad, so we feel sorry for him on principle, but we never really get to know him enough to bond with him as an audience.

The unweildy fusing of the Phoenix and cure storylines. Really I would have been happier if they'd stuck to the cure storyline, and saved the Phoenix resurrection for a twist scene at the end. Too much to handle for one movie methinks.

And I would disagree about Anna's roles post-Oscar. Fly Away Home, Almost Famous, 25th Hour, and The Squid and the Whale are all excellent movies. Now that she's completed a trilogy of scifi blockbusters, her career really isn't that different from Natalie Portman's. All she needs now are a Closer and a V For Vendetta and she'd be set.

Gillianren
2006-May-28, 05:53 PM
On the way home, we discussed the lack of a magic helmet for Juggernaut, but it quickly devolved into an Elmer Fudd impersonation contest.

I do kind of regret some of the changes from the comic, but on the whole, the movie just seemed a little too busy. I mean, if you're going to combine the cure story and the Phoenix story, why not give Jean the cure?

Dr Nigel
2006-May-28, 06:45 PM
Well, I'm a relative newbie to X-Men. I saw as much of the animated series as they have shown on British telly, but have read very little of the comics.

Having said that, I also enjoyed the film. I did have two disappointments, both relating to the effects budget. Specifically, Storm's and Phoenix's powers. Storm makes way too little use of lightning, tornadoes (sp?), rain / hail / snow and generally is not as hard as she ought to be (does anyone else remember what she did to the Savage Land when under the control of Sauron? Has any other X-man trashed an entire continent in a fit of pique?). Likewise, Phoenix seems to have demonstrated only a small fraction of her power.

Plus, if there are going to be any more films, I think they would have done better saving the cure storyline for the last one. I wanted to see Rogue with Miss Marvel's powers (i.e. the flight, super-strength and indestructibility) before she stopped being a mutant.

Still, assuming there are more films to come, there's still Apocalypse...

Musashi
2006-May-29, 12:18 AM
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler

























The Cure didn't seem to be too total or permanent. Magneto was able to move the chess piece after all.

Tobin Dax
2006-May-29, 04:51 AM
I do kind of regret some of the changes from the comic, but on the whole, the movie just seemed a little too busy. I mean, if you're going to combine the cure story and the Phoenix story, why not give Jean the cure?

I definitely agree that the story was too busy. I have to respond to the second point, though. How, exactly, are you going give the cure to a telepathic, telekinetic, untouchable mutant like the Phoenix? (As I type this, I suppose that Logan could have done that instead, but that would be nowhere near the moment we actually got.)

Musashi
2006-May-29, 06:42 AM
They should have just thrown Leech at her.

Count Zero
2006-May-29, 09:05 AM
I'm not sure that Leech would appreciate that.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2006-May-29, 12:39 PM
so wouldn't the power to neutralize mutations be in and of itself a mutation?

GDwarf
2006-May-29, 07:37 PM
All in all I liked it. (Spoilers follow, don't read unless you've watched the movie.)



The plot was pretty shallow, it seemed to me that they just wanted to kill characters off. They also could've easily made it go an extra half hour without it being in the least stretched, it was way too short. Any special effect involving flight looked very fake, and Magneto made some very stupid tactical decisions.

For example, he uses the golden gate bridge as, well, a bridge, leaving a land route for re-enforcements to reach him, when otherwise he could've stopped them. He then sends in waves of mutants for no gain, before deciding to just destroy the weapons, had he done that in reverse order success would've been almost assured.

However, the actors were all pretty good, there were some great lines thrown out: "Grow those back", "Don't you know who I am?..." (That last one prompted cheering when Juggernaut busted out of the floor.)

They also surprised me in the fact that none of the dead characters came back from the dead, I did honestly expect them to bring back the professor.

It was a decent action flik, and certainly worth my $10.

Edit: Oh, and I left before the credits were over, what exactly was shown?

Count Zero
2006-May-29, 09:03 PM
Oh, and I left before the credits were over, what exactly was shown?
Let's just say that one of your more important points proved to be very wrong.

Metricyard
2006-May-29, 09:28 PM
Edit: Oh, and I left before the credits were over, what exactly was shown?

After all the people all over the web said to stay for the credits, you couldn't stay for 5 more minutes? Bad X-men fan, bad.:naughty:
See below for what you missed.




They also surprised me in the fact that none of the dead characters came back from the dead, I did honestly expect them to bring back the professor.

Can't tell you what was involved though, as it might spoil it for others:whistle:

edit -- spelling and quotes

GDwarf
2006-May-29, 10:23 PM
(Warning, spoiler)





Can't tell you what was involved though, as it might spoil it for others:whistle:
Ah, the wonders of YouTube. Anyways, I guess we know the answer to that ethical question...

Doodler
2006-May-30, 08:36 PM
I have been an X-Men fan for (nigh-on) forty years (my god!) and I am intrigued by the casting in this film (not that I have seen it yet). Kelsey Grammer School as the Beast? Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut? So crazy it might just work.

Kelsey Grammar as Beast might be one of the best actor to character matches in science fiction. Right up there with Andreas Katsulas in the role of G'Kar.

Dr Nigel
2006-May-30, 09:14 PM
The Cure didn't seem to be too total or permanent. Magneto was able to move the chess piece after all.

Good point. I forgot that bit.

GDwarf
2006-May-30, 10:00 PM
The Cure didn't seem to be too total or permanent. Magneto was able to move the chess piece after all.
I actually suspected that, X3 was in many ways formulaic. Mind you, as soon as they showed Magnito I knew they were either going to have him try to move the peice and fail (I didn't know quite how close to the end the movie was), or it would do what it did.

Now comes the interesting question, why was Magnito the first to have it wear off? He received 4x the dose of all the other mutants, so presumably it would last at least 4x as long on him. The only thing I can think of is that he is so powerful that he can just overcome it before much of it has vanished, however, that would probably mean that if he only got a single dose he would still have had his powers... Gah, my head hurts.

frenat
2006-May-30, 10:07 PM
It may be that the dosage doesn't matter. Once you're affected it doesn't matter how much you have in your system. He may be the first to have it wear off because he is trying to have it wear off or in other words he is trying to actively use his powers. Also he was a more powerful mutant than most.

Musashi
2006-May-30, 11:16 PM
Too much thinking :P He was the first to have it wear off because it made for a dramatic ending.

peter eldergill
2006-May-31, 02:11 AM
Just saw it today...really enjoyed it. Although I don't understand why they just didn't send in leech agains Phoenix...

I think it would have been cooler to have Phoenix as the power cosmic, instead of a multiple personality.

Is there a difference between Phoenix and Dark Phoenix? Also, was Jean really a class 5 mutant in the comics, or was that just plot for the movie...

Pete

GDwarf
2006-May-31, 11:05 AM
Just saw it today...really enjoyed it. Although I don't understand why they just didn't send in leech agains Phoenix...
Two theories about that.
1. How would he get there? We know that powers don't work near him, but she could still throw stuff at him.
2. Phoenix had essentially unlimited power, you have to wonder if Leech could stop that, he might've ended up having no effect.


I think it would have been cooler to have Phoenix as the power cosmic, instead of a multiple personality.
IIRC, pheonix had multiple personalities in the comics, too.


Is there a difference between Phoenix and Dark Phoenix? Also, was Jean really a class 5 mutant in the comics, or was that just plot for the movie...
Again, IIRC, Phoenix isn't always evil, when she does turn that way she changes her name to dark phoenix. No idea if Jean was a class 5 in the comics, I'd assume so, though.

(Note: I've never read a single X-men comic, I just have a way of picking these things up.)

Moose
2006-May-31, 12:12 PM
I suspect it's not a case where Magnito is the first to have it wear off, but that his power is both immense, and gradual. It only takes a little of his original power to twitch the chess piece. Mystique, on the other hand, can't morph 'only a little bit', so she'll have to wait longer to return to normal.

Rogue'll eventually be outta luck, but hopefully she'll have some quality time with Bobby before the gloves have to go back on.

Personally, marketing the drug as an overall 'cure' for 'mutantism' was clearly a huge PR mistake. Making a much clearer distinction between helpful or managable mutations (like Kitty's) where medication is neither necessary nor desirable, and the sort of mutation that causes actual hardship for the bearer (like Rogue's), might have prevented Magnito from effectively exploiting the controversy.

Edit: Incidentally, a mod might want to mark the thread title as spoilerish, as there are some fairly key plot points being discussed here.

HenrikOlsen
2006-May-31, 12:34 PM
Two theories about that.
1. How would he get there? We know that powers don't work near him, but she could still throw stuff at him.
2. Phoenix had essentially unlimited power, you have to wonder if Leech could stop that, he might've ended up having no effect.


IIRC, pheonix had multiple personalities in the comics, too.


Again, IIRC, Phoenix isn't always evil, when she does turn that way she changes her name to dark phoenix. No idea if Jean was a class 5 in the comics, I'd assume so, though.

(Note: I've never read a single X-men comic, I just have a way of picking these things up.)
The multiple personalities displayed by Phoenix/Dark Phoenix in the comix's is directly caused by the possession by the Phoenix force, there's no indication they existed before including no hints at all of severe abuse in her childhood.

As for the Class 5 thing, that classification system was either something they introduced after I stopped reading the comix or something they invented for the movie.

James_Digriz
2006-Jun-01, 03:16 AM
It wasn't as good as 1 or 2. Too formulamatic and not enough one liners.

Rich
2006-Jun-03, 04:49 PM
Re: the chess board at the end... Oh and of course SPOILERS.






I thought it was a nice juxtaposition having the movie ending with him playing chess alone. The imagery of Magneto and Xavier playing chess together in the first two movies was crucial, I think, to understanding these two characters' relationship. Seeing Magneto sitting alone, with no one to play with, put into light just how much he had truly lost in his fight. The sadness evident on his face wasn't just for his loss of powers, but the loss of a close friend and perhaps the only person who would have truly commiserated with him after he lost his powers. Of course, the wobble of that piece right there at the end was a terrific little tease, as was the epilogue after the credits.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-03, 07:07 PM
And, of course, the knowledge is there that the whole thing is all his fault, which we see him realize just before Jean goes completely nuts.

Weird Dave
2006-Jun-03, 10:34 PM
Personally, marketing the drug as an overall 'cure' for 'mutantism' was clearly a huge PR mistake. Making a much clearer distinction between helpful or managable mutations (like Kitty's) where medication is neither necessary nor desirable, and the sort of mutation that causes actual hardship for the bearer (like Rogue's), might have prevented Magnito from effectively exploiting the controversy.
On that note, how about the "good" mutants gaining some good PR by using their powers to help humans? Almost all anti-mutant feelings in humans would be cancelled out by just one news reel of Storm bringing rain to a famine-struck part of Africa.

It's generally odd that mutants have never been shown employed to use their powers. I would have thought that there would be mutant soldiers and bodyguards, earning significant salaries.

eburacum45
2006-Jun-04, 09:20 AM
Exactly. Magneto could work in the electricity generation industry, Iceman in the refrigeration industry, Mystique could work as a television impressionist; Juggernaut would find employment in demolition, Beast and Nightcrawler could be acrobats, and Wolverine could work in a delicatessen, slicing bacon.

Rich
2006-Jun-04, 10:51 AM
Exactly. Magneto could work in the electricity generation industry, Iceman in the refrigeration industry, Mystique could work as a television impressionist; Juggernaut would find employment in demolition, Beast and Nightcrawler could be acrobats, and Wolverine could work in a delicatessen, slicing bacon.

Hmmmm.... I wonder if actors could sue Mystique for trademark infringment if she were to make a living as an entertainer. Can't get Leornardo DiCaprio for your new film??? No problem! We'll just pay Mystique a fraction of what we'd pay Leo, and get the same product. She'll even do her own stunts. Speaking of which, she would make an excellent stunt double.

Still, interesting legal issues could ensue.

Good point about some public service work though, might take the edge off a bit.

Weird Dave
2006-Jun-04, 07:30 PM
Exactly. Magneto could work in the electricity generation industry, Iceman in the refrigeration industry, Mystique could work as a television impressionist; Juggernaut would find employment in demolition, Beast and Nightcrawler could be acrobats, and Wolverine could work in a delicatessen, slicing bacon.
Thinking back, Nightcrawler was in the circus before X2, IIRC. But why has no American football team signed Juggernaut?

GDwarf
2006-Jun-04, 07:45 PM
Thinking back, Nightcrawler was in the circus before X2, IIRC. But why has no American football team signed Juggernaut?
Bad PR from the death of the other team? Maybe he always fumbles.

frenat
2006-Jun-04, 08:46 PM
There probably are some mutants employed specifically for their mutations. However, I get the impression that there are far more mutants with weaker or non-beneficial powers. What does the guy do whose power is to create excess phlegm?

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jun-04, 08:50 PM
Or to accurately reproduce any sound sequence he's heard.
Ok, he'd spend his life running from the RRIA :)

Gillianren
2006-Jun-05, 01:28 AM
There probably are some mutants employed specifically for their mutations. However, I get the impression that there are far more mutants with weaker or non-beneficial powers. What does the guy do whose power is to create excess phlegm?

In my (unpublished) superhero books, I have a character who can produce potatoes cooked any way you want 'em if you hand him the potato first. He works in food service for the main superhero organization. The heroes are also setting up an alliance with various governments to provide law enforcement officers who have secret identities but can still testify in court. (Which, say, Batman never does.)

Couldn't a guy who produced excess phlegm be used for some kind of medical experimentation?

James_Digriz
2006-Jun-05, 01:40 AM
In my (unpublished) superhero books, I have a character who can produce potatoes cooked any way you want 'em if you hand him the potato first. He works in food service for the main superhero organization.

That reminds me of the Mystery Men movie. Great show with super heros like The Shoveler, who could shovel really well. I really loved this movie. The Mystery Men was better then X Men 3 by far.

The Spleen who took enemies out with bad gas. Just classic. I laughed I cried......well I laughed a lot anyway.

Metricyard
2006-Jun-05, 01:41 AM
Exactly. Magneto could work in the electricity generation industry, Iceman in the refrigeration industry, Mystique could work as a television impressionist; Juggernaut would find employment in demolition, Beast and Nightcrawler could be acrobats, and Wolverine could work in a delicatessen, slicing bacon.
What happens, though, when they don't get the raise or pay they want?
They could singlehandedly take over any industry. Mystique could inpersonate the CFO and give herself all the stocks in the company. Juggernaut could just demolish your brand new mansion. You get the idea.

Best to leave the superheros to superheroing.*


* is superheroing a real word?

Dragon Star
2006-Jun-05, 01:50 AM
I just saw it, I was very happy with it, great movie. I wish it were longer though...but watching the golden gate bridge float around was certainly worth it.:D

James_Digriz
2006-Jun-05, 01:59 AM
I just saw it, I was very happy with it, great movie. I wish it were longer though...but watching the golden gate bridge float around was certainly worth it.

Watch 2 again and you will notice the difference. I was involved emotionally with 2 from the start. I just couldn't get into 3.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-05, 04:07 AM
I could, if you count annoyance as an emotion. I'm so tired of Phoenix sagas.

Dave Mitsky
2006-Jun-05, 06:16 AM
That reminds me of the Mystery Men movie. Great show with super heros like The Shoveler, who could shovel really well. I really loved this movie. The Mystery Men was better then X Men 3 by far.

The Spleen who took enemies out with bad gas. Just classic. I laughed I cried......well I laughed a lot anyway.

I saw "Mystery Men". Surely, you must be joking. :)

Dave Mitsky

stutefish
2006-Jun-05, 11:24 PM
I figured Magneto was the first to get his powers back because he was atypical in several ways:

1. Became aware of his powers at an early age.

2. Was immediately confronted with a compelling reason to develop his powers to their utmost potential.

3. Made it a habit throughout his life to strengthen his powers through regular and challenging exercises.

4. Had been following such an exercise regimen for longer than most other mutants had been alive.

So he's already had a lot more practice in strengthening his powers than any other mutant, with the possibility of Professor X (who probably had a pretty serious training regimen of his own, but may not have had the traumatic childhood motivational experience to give his training the extra level of urgency Magneto had. Also, the Professor may not have had the same megalomaniacal need for that kind of power, to compel him to regain it after it had been lost).

And the Professor's students would all have been familiar with mutant power training exercises, they wouldn't have had the 60+ years of habitual practice that Magneto had, in addition to lacking his unique sources of motivation and overall supervillain mindset.

So yeah, I'd put even money down on Magneto recovering before anybody else, regardless of dosage.

If anybody could recover their powers through sheer force of will, it'd be Magneto.

Dragon Star
2006-Jun-06, 12:57 AM
I have a question, exactly what is (was) that blue guys ability? He seems to be a good monkey but not a power at the least...

James_Digriz
2006-Jun-06, 01:04 AM
I saw "Mystery Men". Surely, you must be joking. :)

Dave Mitsky

I am not sir. Loved it.


I have a question, exactly what is (was) that blue guys ability? He seems to be a good monkey but not a power at the least...

He didn't have a power. He just got physically tranformed by the X gene. Like Sabertooth. In the comics they all had the healing factor though.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-06, 01:44 AM
I believe Beast, also known as "that blue guy," also had greater strength and agility.

Tog
2006-Jun-06, 07:41 AM
From what I can recall, Beast was a scientist who developed his mutation in his 20's, long after he had established himself. He was extremely intelligent, which may or may not have been a mutaion. The blue fur was a side effect, but his actual powers were high stength, extreme agility and prehensile feet.

I wondered where Nightcrawler went. There was no mention of hi in the film, but he's very prominant in the ads for the X3 video game.

That one woman at the rally said there were no mutants above class 3 except Magneto and Pyro. Jean was the only class 5 known to exist. That means that pretty much everyone else was a class 4 right? It seems to me like there hould be a lot more levels. Storm is supposed to be insanely powerful, always keeping her powers on a tight leash, and she's on the same level as Pyro?

I agree that this was two different story lines crammed together. They should have just taken one and gone from there.


SPOILERS



















The actor that played the first character to die was also signed to the Superman (DC Comics) Movie. I'm not sure how many here follow Marvel's legal dealings, but there were rumours they were displeasd enough to have considered replacing that actor completely. They may have just killed him off instead to not have to deal with it.

I liked the way Magneto was portrayed in this one. In the first two, you knew he was a bad guy, but there was still a bit of sympathy to be had for him. When he removed the escort cars from the convoy the way he did, you really got a sense of just how bad he could be. Then after he got the rest out of the trailer, his reaction to Mystique's 'injury' was beyond cold. It was in keeping with his character and all, but damn...


The cure weapons were made of 100% nonetalic parts. Magneto didn't know this until he tried to destroy them. In the second movie, it was shown that he senses metal on an almost instictive level, so why was he surprised? He should have realized that a group of armed soldier with no metal may have been ready for him.

[Gamer speak] In the game City of Heores there is a recharge period for each power used. The more powerful the attack, the longer the rechage period. Since all powers are charged at the start of the fight, it's possible to get pummeled with several high power attacks in the opening volley. This is called the Alpha Strike, or the Alpha.[/Gamer Speak]
I saw Magneto sending in the 'pawns' as a logical way to both test the defenses, and to have them absorb the alpha. One of the character classes in the game is a Mastermind who can send in minions to do the fighting. Sending in one the lowest level minions to take that first hit makes the follow up actions safer.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jun-06, 07:45 AM
High strength, high agility, very high intelligence, no extraordinary healing factor, got blue (and heightened strength and agility) from a failed attempt at curing himself of the mutation, since his first looks was ugly monkeyboy including oversized prehensile feet.

Jason Thompson
2006-Jun-06, 11:57 AM
The cure weapons were made of 100% nonetalic parts. Magneto didn't know this until he tried to destroy them. In the second movie, it was shown that he senses metal on an almost instictive level, so why was he surprised? He should have realized that a group of armed soldier with no metal may have been ready for him.

That surprised me as well. Not because he can sense metal, but because he should have anticipated it. He is the most wanted mutant in the world (or in the US, which for the purposes of these movies seems to be equivalent). Everyone knows who he is and what power he has. He's demonstrated it often enough. He's already been incarcerated once in a plastic prison with guards with no metallic weapons. Now he publicly declares war on homo sapiens and it [/i]doesn't[/i] occur to him that they might equip their forces with non-metallic weapons to attack him with?

Irishman
2006-Jun-14, 09:45 PM
I'm pondering the comparative strengths of Leech's power vs. the others.

For instance, Rogue's power is to temporarily adopt the power of whomever she touches. So does her power get negated before she can touch him? Is the antibody/treatment effectively like permanently touching him?

Is there a mutant who could overpower his power? Like Phoenix in full "destroy the world" mode? I wondered why they wasted all 4 vials on Magneto and then had to kill Phoenix, rather than hitting her with one and "curing" her. Wouldn't that have been better, to give time to see if she could be healed when not destroying the world? Ah, but it wouldn't have provided the dramatic moment of Wolverine killing his love, because she asked and needed it.

Tog
2006-Jun-15, 10:51 AM
Beast's fur vaised while he was still out of reach of Leech, so I doubt Rogue would have gotten close enough to touch him either.

I also don't think the vials would have been able to survive the trip to the Phoenix. Wolverine only made due to his amazing regenertion, indistructable adamantium frame, Plucky heroic will and a bit of dramatic license. Those little plastic darts didn't stand a chance.

Okay maybe not plastic, but not metal for sure, or Magneto could have controlled them. Even if were just the needles, he'd have enough to work with.

Phoenix probably could have destroyed him, she had more range. Even if he sat in a little bubble of negation, she could still hit him with a train, or drop a building on him.

gethen
2006-Jun-22, 03:50 PM
SPOILER!!!! and a question:













Why are we so sure Phoenix is actually dead? If Xavier, with his exponentially weaker powers could manage the jump revealed in that little burp at the end of the credits, how do we know that Phoenix didn't do the same?

Tog
2006-Jun-22, 05:11 PM
SPOILER!!!! and a question:













Why are we so sure Phoenix is actually dead? If Xavier, with his exponentially weaker powers could manage the jump revealed in that little burp at the end of the credits, how do we know that Phoenix didn't do the same?

I'm going to say that Phoenix was more primal and funtioned mainly on instict. If that's the case it's unlikely that she would have planned ahead enough to know of a new person to posess. And at that moment, Pheonix wasn't in charge anyway.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-22, 08:19 PM
If it holds true to Marvel form, they'll bring 'er back to life eventually.