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Fraser
2006-Jun-08, 05:03 AM
SUMMARY: An international team of astronomers have used ESA's XMM-Newton X-Ray observatory to image the most distant galaxy cluster ever seen. This cluster contains hundreds of galaxies, and is located nearly 10 billion light-years from Earth, so it's seen when the Universe was less than 4 billion years old. Its existence challenges current theories about galaxy evolution - a structure this large shouldn't exist so early in the Universe.

View full article (http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/xxmxcs_2215_1738_aas.html)
What do you think about this story? post your comments below.

nimo9
2006-Jun-08, 07:24 AM
1- is it the one here? (from 2k1)
http://chandra.harvard.edu/press/01_releases/press_021501.html
2- why they're names diferent?

antoniseb
2006-Jun-08, 12:25 PM
1- is it the one here? (from 2k1)
No, it's a new one, but only slightly further away.
My complaint is the part of the story where it says it challenges models of galaxy formation. It doesn't point out that it only challenges *some* models of galaxy formation. It is good support for the idea that galaxy clusters are concentrations of mass that formed very early.

johnholland
2006-Jun-08, 02:18 PM
If this cluster is moving away from us at very high speed (which is most likely the case) then because of special relativity we are observing the cluster at an age of the universe which is even younger than 4 billion years, are we not ?
JH

altizar
2006-Jun-08, 07:50 PM
Well, we have two theories that have a possibility of being challenged the first is that of galaxy formation. The 2nd theory would be the one deriving the age of the Universe.

The theory of galaxy formation was formulate through the observation of a wide, wide range of galaxies in their various states.

The theory of the age of the Universe isn't based on emperical observations, but built upon inferences and assumptions.

Now we have an observation that is in conflict if we hold both of these two theories to be true.

Now, I ask you, which theory do you think is stronger and which one might need to be revised . . .

iron4
2006-Jun-09, 04:43 AM
Cans somebody tell me the redshift of this cluster?

iron4
2006-Jun-09, 04:51 AM
Never mind, it seems that is z=1.45
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/0606075

So, it's strange that they say that is the farthest known cluster, when I have in my notes that 53W002 has a redshift of z=2.4

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1999ASPC..193..419K

robertgrunberg
2006-Jun-09, 11:41 AM
Time begins at the expanding universe of the c-cubed volumetric model of the cosmos and this gives the current age of our frame of reference at 27.5 gigayears relative to the age and radius of the Hubble sphere. This is based on our visible horizon radius of 13.75 billion light years given by the age of the CMB radiation.

In the c-cubed model, the Hubble sphere is the universe. The expanding universe is the singular two distance dimensional membrane with curvature (lessening as a function of time) that contains the volume of the cosmos. Inflation is no longer required to account for the uniformity of the CMB. Since the emission of the CMB radiation from the universe where it was then, the cosmos has octupled its volume by doubling its size (radius) so that it now presents a universal and cosmic diameter of 55 Gyr which is the diameter of the Hubble sphere.

Radiation from the galaxy cluster that has taken 10 billion years to arrive gives the current age of the cluster at 17.5 billion years if our frame is 27.5 billion years old relative to the zero age at the sphere of the universe. If the galactic radiation that we now see was emitted 10 billion years ago, at the time of emission the universe had a radius of 17.5 Gyr. A galaxy cluster that is now regarded as being 3.75 Gyr old when the now observed radiation was emitted is currently 17.5 Gyr old. This is from an instantaneous view of the whole cosmos contained by the Hubble-sphere universe where the big-bang reaction still happens at Planck time or close enough to time zero and creates matter that is dark energy or the revived and reversed-polarised cosmological constant that Einstein introduced to science.