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spacemanspiff
2006-Jul-05, 05:16 AM
OK I was incuraged in the post put up by homo_cosmosicus to put up a thread about my own CT beliefs. Now, as I said these are only my own opinions. I have no evidence to support them. They are probably the two most famous CT's in the world.

First, the Roswell New Mexico ET spacecraft crash.
I believe that an alien craft crashed in the desert there and was recovered by the US goverment. As to why I believe this? Well there just seems to be too many reputable people who say they saw the wreckage and could not explain it. There was the rancher who owned the land, many air force personell who now many years later after they have retired who say that they were ordered to keep quiet. Several people claim that they saw a meterial that we now call memory clothe but was unknown at that time. Most of these people have nothing or at least very little to gain by making these claims. If money or noteriety were the motive , seems like the 1950's UFO craze would have been a better time for that.
I read the book "The day after Roswell" by Col. Phillip Corso. Now I don't know much about Col. Corso except I believe he is now dead. But his book was very interesting. He claims that he was given the task of farming out technoligy taken from the Roswell ship into american industry and that many technical inovations resulted from this. Now I am not claiming this is true because I don't know. I only read that one book that makes those claims after all and one book does not mean proof. I'm sure that given the number of engineers and physicists here that they will be glad to set me on the right path on that point.
Here is the hard part to admit, being a die hard science fiction fan I suppose that there is more that just a little part of me that wants this to be true. Proof that we have been visited by aliens would be SO cool. I am not a hardcore scream in your face fanatic on this subject. I just can't ignore all the different people who claim they saw wreckage they could not explain. and that they were told by the gov. to keep quiet, even the civilians said that I believe.

Second conspiracy. The JFK shooting,
I know this one has been talked to death. Maybe it's the cynic in me but I really believe the CIA or FBI had something to do with it. Again, no proof just a belief. Kennedy was I believe thinking about disbanding the CIA wasn't he?
And it's hard for me to believe that Oswald could pull something like that off all by himself. Now conserning the idea that there were four or five shooters? I don't know. I just believe that Oswald did not act alone or that he was a scapegoat. It's more a feeling than anything else really. I mean if it was cut and dried positive that he acted alone would there be so much controversy about all these years later?

well there they are my dirty little secrets. Be gentle.

Maksutov
2006-Jul-05, 05:40 AM
So what's Hobbes' take on all this?

gwiz
2006-Jul-05, 10:51 AM
A lot of your reasons for accepting the Roswell alien story are just as applicable to the official line that it was a secret balloon mission. Really, the only thing that isn't explained by that is Corso, who I've never heard of. Anyone know who he was?

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 11:04 AM
First of all I must say it is really refreshing to have somebody state his beliefs open to discussion, recognizing he has no evidence.

Although I must say you have given more argumentation than many who claim they do have the evidence.

I want to urge everyone debating the topics to respond with this in mind. This discussion is not with a die-hard arrogant conspiracy believer, but with somebody who recognizes the lack of fact for the belief he has. If you have facts proving the theories wrong, just present them here with a clear explanation. We will all learn from it, and spacemanspiff will have some facts and ideas on which to reassess his beliefs.

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 11:06 AM
Second conspiracy. The JFK shooting,
I know this one has been talked to death.

I did not hear that JFK assassination theory yet, but it sure is a way to kill somebody. ;) :D


The problem with controversy is that it naturally arises from any important event. One can invent countless conspiracy theories.

Take the recent tour de france accident where a participant got badly cut by a green cardboard hand.

Sure this *could* have been done in order to stop him from winning the tour, because company X sponsoring team Y in which number 2 races has bonds with the government of country Z. Nobody notices when you hold a knife next to such a hand. And you can't even cut an apple with such a hand, never mind an arm! They're just making us believe that so they can get away with what was a clear attempt to disable, yes murder him.

Now I don't believe the rant I just wrote down and as far as I know nobody else does, but anyway my point is that the fact that there is controversy does not prove something is wrong. Certainly with something like a president being murdered, there's a strong trigger for controversy.

Cl1mh4224rd
2006-Jul-05, 11:59 AM
Second conspiracy. The JFK shooting,
Here's a rather large thread about the JFK assassination conspiracy (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=8420).

SpitfireIX
2006-Jul-05, 12:02 PM
Second conspiracy. The JFK shooting,
I know this one has been talked to death. Maybe it's the cynic in me but I really believe the CIA or FBI had something to do with it. Again, no proof just a belief. Kennedy was I believe thinking about disbanding the CIA wasn't he?
And it's hard for me to believe that Oswald could pull something like that off all by himself. Now conserning the idea that there were four or five shooters? I don't know. I just believe that Oswald did not act alone or that he was a scapegoat. It's more a feeling than anything else really. I mean if it was cut and dried positive that he acted alone would there be so much controversy about all these years later?

I'm going to bump the JFK thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=8420) and repeat this part of spacemanspiff's post there. I suggest that all discussion of Spiff's JFK beliefs be continued in that thread, and that this thread be reserved for Spiff's Roswell beliefs. Spiff, I suggest that you might want want to read through the entire JFK thread if and when you have time; some questions you might have may already have been answered there.

And while on the subject, if you're reading this, turbonium, we're still waiting for you to answer all those questions about JFK, which you claimed you were going to do. It's been about two months since your last post. :naughty:

[edit: I see Cl1mh4224rd had the same idea I did at the same time.]

jt-3d
2006-Jul-05, 12:35 PM
Corso, who I've never heard of. Anyone know who he was?

There was a UFO show on THC a while back. He was a Lt. Colonel in the army, I believe, who claimed that he was tasked by the military with releasing alien technology to the public, which came from the crashed UFO. Sort of like they said in Men in Black. They debunked some of his claims but can't really recall most of the show. I think they used an alien brain ray on me.

spacemanspiff
2006-Jul-05, 02:32 PM
Dang! you people get up early!


So what's Hobbes' take on all this?
He just thinks I'm crazy, but then HE eats bugs so go figure!:razz:


A lot of your reasons for accepting the Roswell alien story are just as applicable to the official line that it was a secret balloon mission. Really, the only thing that isn't explained by that is Corso, who I've never heard of. Anyone know who he was?
What I heard happened was that an air force officer, can't remember his name released the story about a crashed UFO to the papers and then a few days later retracted that and replaced it with the Balloon story. If that is true why would he do that?


First of all I must say it is really refreshing to have somebody state his beliefs open to discussion, recognizing he has no evidence.
Thanks Nicolas. I am not one of those people who thrives on controversy and arguement or attention as I suspect many of your more 'out there' CTers
do.


I did not hear that JFK assassination theory yet, but it sure is a way to kill somebody.
Maybe I should post my 50,000 word theory about why the goverment did away with the department of silly walks!


The problem with controversy is that it naturally arises from any important event. One can invent countless conspiracy theories.
That's a very good point Nicolas. One I hadn't realy considered. Maybe so many people loved him so much they just wanted to believe there were evil forces behind it. But he did make alot of powerful enemies didn't he?

I will read that thread Spitfire. It might take me awhile though.

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 02:41 PM
Not only because they loved him (or hated him), but also to be interesting. You know, all the newspaper are full of the official story, everyone around you talks about it, and then suddenly you slam them with your story of how it really happened. Certainly gets the attention from those who believe your story. You're the eye opener, the one who sees through the lies, who understands the full story. IF it were true of course :). There are many possible reasons for controversy/conspiracy theory:
*disliking somebody involved
*liking somebody involved
*getting attention
*make reality more interesting than it is
*identifying an enemy to blame
*explaining the unexplained

etcetc

("you" being a general person, not YOU :)).

gwiz
2006-Jul-05, 02:45 PM
What I heard happened was that an air force officer, can't remember his name released the story about a crashed UFO to the papers and then a few days later retracted that and replaced it with the Balloon story. If that is true why would he do that?
As I recall, the balloon was something called Project Mogul, involving characterising USSR nuclear weapon tests. I have no idea why the officer initially claimed it was a UFO, possibly a certain amout of panic after members of the public found some highly classified stuff scattered across the desert. However, the pictures of the wreckage certainly look like a balloon, lots of light weight stuff, and presumably if you'd never seen aluminised plastic before - and it wasn't in common use in those days - you could mistake it for an advanced alien material. For many years the USAF maintained a cover story that it was a weather balloon, it's true mission was only revealed in the 1990s.

spacemanspiff
2006-Jul-05, 02:52 PM
For many years the USAF maintained a cover story that it was a weather balloon, it's true mission was only revealed in the 1990s.
I've never heard of this. Do you have a link where I could read about it?

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 02:56 PM
^^^^
asks for a link to a claim made, in order to check it out and read more into it HIMSELF instead of treating us as his slaves, or dismissing it simply because you haven't heard of it before. Fantastic. You truly are no cliché. :)

I can't help you with a link though; I'm not into Roswell :).

gwiz
2006-Jul-05, 03:02 PM
I've never heard of this. Do you have a link where I could read about it?
Here's one: http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html

SpitfireIX
2006-Jul-05, 03:02 PM
That's a very good point Nicolas. One I hadn't realy considered. Maybe so many people loved him so much they just wanted to believe there were evil forces behind it. But he did make alot of powerful enemies didn't he?

I'll respond to this here, as it's applicable to virtually all conspiracy theories, and not just JFK.

William Manchester, author of the first major book on Kennedy's assassination, made the following observation (http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/02/12/topi_4.php) in a letter to The New York Times:


William Manchester
Those who desperately want to believe that President Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy have my sympathy. I share their yearning. To employ what may seem an odd metaphor, there is an esthetic principle here. If you put six million dead Jews on one side of a scale and on the other side put the Nazi regime - the greatest gang of criminals ever to seize control of a modern state - you have a rough balance: greatest crime, greatest criminals.

But if you put the murdered president of the United States on one side of a scale and that wretched waif Oswald on the other side, it doesn't balance. You want to add something weightier to Oswald. It would invest the president's death with meaning, endowing him with martyrdom. He would have died for something..

A conspiracy would, of course, do the job nicely. Unfortunately, there is no evidence whatever that there was one.

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 03:03 PM
http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/physics10/Roswell/USMogulReport.html

Here you go, another article on mogul/roswell :)

spacemanspiff
2006-Jul-05, 03:20 PM
Nicolas, your gonna make me blush!:o

Well you guys have given me alot of reading to do. It's gonna take me awhile to get through it all.
I admit I have not done enough reading on these subjects. Gotta eat and sleep sometime ya know. I think that is one of the problems. There is just SO much stuff writen about these subjects that many people find it daunting. So they just form an opinion based on what they themselves are more inclined to believe because it's easier. Dang! What does that say about me? I admit also that I'm probably guilty of that.

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 03:33 PM
The appearance of somebody who's mind might be changed gives us high hopes. Which in fact is not so much a compliment for you as your behaviour should be the standard, it's a sad notion about some people coming to this board, seemingly forgetting this is a discussion board...

I suggest you read what is presented to you, indeed a wealth of information :). WHatever the outcome, it's interesting to read it.

Laguna
2006-Jul-05, 04:14 PM
Dang! you people get up early!
As we have members all over the world, there is always someone who is not sleeping... ;)

spacemanspiff
2006-Jul-05, 04:22 PM
OOPS! so sorry, My mistake.
I present myself for punishment in the COMFY CHAIRAH SAH!

Nowhere Man
2006-Jul-05, 04:54 PM
asks for a link to a claim made, in order to check it out and read more into it HIMSELF instead of treating us as his slaves, or dismissing it simply because you haven't heard of it before. Fantastic. You truly are no cliché. :)
"Careful! He's got a brain and he's not afraid to use it!"

You go, Spiff.

Fred

aporetic_r
2006-Jul-05, 06:58 PM
As we have members all over the world, there is always someone who is not sleeping... ;)

The Sun never sets on Bad Astronomy...

sts60
2006-Jul-05, 08:21 PM
... it just moves over another part of the flat Earth.

JayUtah
2006-Jul-05, 09:03 PM
I meant to chime in earlier.

Often what someone believes is not as important as why he says he believes it. Honesty here counts for much. The fact is that human belief and behavior derives from much more than the intellect, and often not for bad reasons. The only sin here is in misrepresenting why you believe something. That's why people who are honest about beliefs many of us find silly get a much lighter beating than people who harbor different silly beliefs and insist that they're objective and rational without being able to give good reasons for it.

Let's see, Roswell first. I don't have much to say on that. The only applicable words of (alleged) wisdom I can offer is that where you encounter people who really are trying to keep a secret, you can't often assume that the secret you think they're keeping is really the one.

As a society we reluctantly accept that we must charge people with certain tasks that require them to keep secrets, even from us. Yes, we all know how secrecy can be misused, but the need for it still exists. We just hope and pray that it won't be misused. But where secrets are kept, people won't necessarily confirm or deny the things that come to mind. The secret-keepers don't want to reveal too much by what they deny.

So if the military is out there dropping dummies from balloons or doing other stuff they don't necessarily want everyone to know about, they aren't necessarily in a position to dispute every wrong claim. And in fact there might even be some motivation. Let people believe we captured some space aliens. It will keep them occupied and let me continue to do whatever secret thing I'm doing, which probably has nothing to do with space aliens.

Decades later you have a different problem. Now no one cares what you were doing out there in the desert, but the space alien story has become so entrenched that you're between a rock and a hard place. When it becomes important to dispel the space alien rumors, no one will believe you when you tell the truth.

Imagine you're back in high school, and you want to sneak off to the john for a smoke. You do that, and you give your teacher the alibi that you just need to relieve yourself. But your friends don't buy that and think you're off doing some sort of satanic ritual. Obviously silly, you say, but as long as people believe that instead of the notion that you're smoking, you're happy. Your real secret is safe. But now let's say someone discovers a mutilated body in the bathroom, and they say that he was murdered in some satanic cult ritual. Oh boy, now you're in trouble. Even though you don't have anything to do with it, now all of a sudden your alibi becomes a liability. And now the truth doesn't seem so bad -- you tell everyone you were just sneaking off to have a smoke. But because the circumstances are different, the truth just sounds like another lame alibi.

Sometimes you have to accept that the truth is boring.

Luckily other people have already given arguments on JFK that roughly correspond to how I would have answered. You can't let the importance of the victim affect the underlying objective nature of the crime. For the purposes of assessing the practicality of the crime, JFK was not a well-beloved President; he was simply a man no different than any other human being.

The fallacy of significance is one thing real investigators have to watch for constantly. Only certain properties of participants in an event are actually material to how the events unfold and what we make of them. It takes conscious effort and experience to know which ones apply. And it means doing the unthinkable sometimes, like considering that a popular President -- for these purposes -- is no more than a human-shaped target.

publius
2006-Jul-05, 09:56 PM
That very thing happened to me in high school. I went to a fairly strict private school. Occasionally during gym period, we would have the "free style" events where you were turned loose in the gym to do one of several sports or whatever. Some of us would sneak off to the bathroom to engage in various prohibite activities.

It involved tobacco, but not smoking but chewing. :) The lockers were in the bathrooms, and one day, somebody stole some money out of some wallets in those lockers.

Guess who were the suspects? They didn't tell us what we were accused with, but some tattle-tale had seen us sneak into the bathrooms and told. So they called us in and we acted suspcious and so they were sure we were the thieves. But we were initially covering up our chewing tobacco, and I think some dirty pictures or something else we were playing with.

They just about about stripped searched us, but found nothing. To this day, I'm sure they still believe we stole the money and managed to hide it. We did elaborately hide our real contraband, and they never found that because they weren't looking for it. :) We were between a rock and hard place. Confess what we were really doing, and get in big trouble for that, or continue to make up excuses and have them think we stole the money. We went with the latter, knowing they would never find the money on us because we didn't steal it.

We were of a mind to find the real thief ourselves and beat him up for all the trouble he caused he us, but we never did. :)

-Richard

-Richard

Nicolas
2006-Jul-05, 10:16 PM
-Richard

-Richard

Schizo? :D ;)

Ara Pacis
2006-Jul-06, 12:03 AM
An acquaintance of mine who had been in the USAF claimed to see an unworldly object in a hangar in a base out west. I'm not sure if this supports the Roswell conspiracy or not.

Nicolas
2006-Jul-06, 12:12 AM
depends to what extent "unwordly" means literally that, or rather "I have not seen anything like that ever before".

The latter would qualify a lot of things as explanation of course.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jul-06, 12:41 AM
I think most of what I was going to say has been pretty well covered, and I'll have to add my 2 cents that it wouldn't surpirse me to learn that the airforce actually encourgaed the UFO rumors in the first place to help hide what they really were up too. If people think you are hiding little grey men, they aren't looking up at your balloons and wondering what you are really up too.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jul-06, 12:43 AM
I've seen an otherworldly item too, though it was cunningly disgused as a peice of rock.

publius
2006-Jul-06, 05:44 AM
Schizo? :D ;)


That, or what happens when you go back to add something and forget you've already signed. :)

-Richard (left brain)

-Richard (right brain)

publius
2006-Jul-06, 06:04 AM
Art Bell (or one of the other hosts, I forget) had some guy on who claimed to work for Air Force intelligence. Now, this was different, because the guy did NOT tell a aliens-coverup story, but just the opposite, that the alien business was disinformation they purposely spread.

He claimed that back in the '70s he was working at some base, and they had some secret communication system that was supposed to be undetectable from background noise.

Well, he claims, some local electronic genius type actually detected that undetactable signal, and started talking about it. The inventors of this new undetecable system were greatly embarrased. This guy then said, while he nothing of the details of the system, he was tasked with finding out who this guy was and discrediting him, and was assigned someone who did know the technical details to help. Their job was to find out how he did and then make everyone believe he was a kook and not look any further into claims of finding some sophisticated signal.

And they did it the UFO route. They managed, by wink-and-nod tactics to make the poor electronic whiz believe they they were sure the signal was some sort of alien "sensor probe" type of thing, and were interested if he had discovered anything more about the signal.

They fed the guy the UFO bait, and led him on to make a fool of himself. Their job was accomplished. They learned how the poor guy stumbled across the signal, and discredited him so no one serious would pay him any attention and maybe discover there was something real there.

Of course, that guest of Art's could have been as full of ** as the pro-UFO people, too.

-Richard

Maksutov
2006-Jul-06, 06:22 AM
I've seen an otherworldly item too, though it was cunningly disgused as a peice of rock.I saw one of those too, except in this instance it was cleverly disguised as a hard place.

hplasm
2006-Jul-06, 11:20 AM
Quote:-Richard

-Richard


Schizo? :D ;)

Careful! Don't mess with the Richards! They know things...:D

captain swoop
2006-Jul-06, 11:34 AM
Well, he claims, some local electronic genius type actually detected that undetactable signal, and started talking about it. The inventors of this new undetecable system were greatly embarrased. This guy then said, while he nothing of the details of the system, he was tasked with finding out who this guy was and discrediting him,


Sounds phoney to me, wouldnt they have wanted to find out how the guy was detecting it and fix the system? If he could do it so could someone else

SpitfireIX
2006-Jul-06, 03:01 PM
Careful! Don't mess with the Richards! They know things...:D

And who knows--there might even be a third Richard in there.


William Shakespeare
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
Our stern alarums changed to merry meetings,
Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
Grim-visaged war hath smooth'd his wrinkled front;
And now, instead of mounting barded steeds
To fright the souls of fearful adversaries,
He capers nimbly in a lady's chamber
To the lascivious pleasing of a lute.
But I, that am not shaped for sportive tricks,
Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass;
I, that am rudely stamp'd, and want love's majesty
To strut before a wanton ambling nymph;
I, that am curtail'd of this fair proportion,
Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
Deformed, unfinish'd, sent before my time
Into this breathing world, scarce half made up,
And that so lamely and unfashionable
That dogs bark at me as I halt by them;
Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
Have no delight to pass away the time,
Unless to spy my shadow in the sun
And descant on mine own deformity:
And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover,
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.
Plots have I laid, inductions dangerous,
By drunken prophecies, libels and dreams,
To set my brother Clarence and the king
In deadly hate the one against the other:
And if King Edward be as true and just
As I am subtle, false and treacherous,
This day should Clarence closely be mew'd up,
About a prophecy, which says that 'G'
Of Edward's heirs the murderer shall be.
Dive, thoughts, down to my soul: here
Clarence comes.
:D :D

spacemanspiff
2006-Jul-06, 06:08 PM
I had heard of the weather balloon therory but I had never heard of project mogul. Based on what I've read about it, it seems to be the most plausable explanation for the Roswell crash. I even read something about a man who had translated the alien 'hyroglyphics' as being greek letters. So I guess this theory goes the way of the dodo as well. This one bothers me a little more than the JFK theory:cry: . I suppose it comes from being such a big fan of science fiction. I realy wanted this one to be true. But one can not deny the overwelming evidence. You know I think a part of me expected this outcome. Maybe I just needed some one with more knowledge than me to conferm it.


Is there no credible evidence that the earth has been visited by aliens?

JayUtah
2006-Jul-06, 08:41 PM
Sometimes I wonder if any intelligent life at all has ever been to Earth.

Gillianren
2006-Jul-06, 08:42 PM
Is there no credible evidence that the earth has been visited by aliens?

Depends on whose definition of "credible" you're using, I suppose. To my definition, no, not really. While there have been lots of sightings that I can't explain, that doesn't really mean much, as (for example) I'm not actually sure what an iridium flare is, other than presumably being a flare of some kind involving iridium. I see things I can't recognize in the sky fairly regularly, but I've never seen any evidence that any of them are anything other than natural or human-made.

JayUtah
2006-Jul-06, 08:57 PM
An Iridium flare is the sighting of one of the many low-flying satellites in the Iridium satellite telephone network. It doesn't have much to do with the element iridium.

papageno
2006-Jul-06, 09:49 PM
Sometimes I wonder if any intelligent life at all has ever been to Earth.

[From the "Galaxy Song", The Meaning of Life]

And pray there is intelligent life
somewhere out in space,
'cos there is [not at] all down here on Earth!
(family friendly version)

My favourite "theory" about UFOs, is that they are time-travellers from the future. They are so elusive so that they don't mess up history.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jul-06, 09:49 PM
This one bothers me a little more than the JFK theory. I suppose it comes from being such a big fan of science fiction. I realy wanted this one to be true. But one can not deny the overwelming evidence.

I don't think there is a person on this board that wouldn't have loved it to have been true. I think that we'd all be estactic if alien life was ever really proven to exist, well unless they are the Hollywood, we've come to eat/enslave you type, badguy aliens that is. But despite the wishful thinking, the scientific brain has to have the evidence of such a thing, if just can't toss out the evidence that a sighting wasn't alien because it'd be really neat if it was. We want to wait till we can actually say, this really was an alien, before we get excited about something.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jul-06, 09:51 PM
Sometimes I wonder if any intelligent life at all has ever been to Earth.

I suggested this in another forum here and got bashed for it because the other posters assumed I was meaning individually, rather than collectively. (Even after I pointed out I was talking about humans as a group, not individuals, several times.)

Kesh
2006-Jul-06, 09:59 PM
(family friendly version)

My favourite "theory" about UFOs, is that they are time-travellers from the future. They are so elusive so that they don't mess up history.
I love that one, myself. I've had short-story ideas based on the concept, but never written them yet. :D

Gillianren
2006-Jul-06, 11:01 PM
An Iridium flare is the sighting of one of the many low-flying satellites in the Iridium satellite telephone network. It doesn't have much to do with the element iridium.

Oh. Thank you. At least I know there's such thing as an element called iridium, huh? (Okay, that's because Asimov mentions it in Words from the Myths.)

papageno
2006-Jul-07, 12:00 AM
I love that one, myself. I've had short-story ideas based on the concept, but never written them yet. :D Unfortunately, after 4400 it might not be that original anymore.

Oh, and I agree with Phantomwolf.
I'd love for extraterrestrial aliens visiting the Earth, but I expect to see them on the news landing in the main square of an important capitol.

Ara Pacis
2006-Jul-07, 02:34 AM
I'd expect intelligent aliens to signal and request permission to land as they enter the solar system and then wait for landing instructions before they land on the main square of a capitol. It's just universal courtesy for First Contact.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jul-07, 02:48 AM
I'd expect intelligent aliens to signal and request permission to land as they enter the solar system and then wait for landing instructions before they land on the main square of a capitol. It's just universal courtesy for First Contact.

Either that or fire a KBO at us......

Grashtel
2006-Jul-07, 01:55 PM
Either that or fire a KBO at us...... Or demand that we convert to the worship of Queeblprthx Alsquiggly as the one true and only god (with the KBO as the alternative)

sts60
2006-Jul-07, 07:01 PM
An Iridium flare is the sighting of one of the many low-flying satellites in the Iridium satellite telephone network. It doesn't have much to do with the element iridium.IIRC, there were originally going to be 77 satellites in the constellation, hence the name (iridium is element 77).

The system design was changed to use 66 satellites, but the original name was kept. Good move. "Dysprosium" just doesn't have a nice ring (har!) to it - it sounds less like something with which you'd want to call someone and more like something for which you'd take Pepto-Bismol.

Heaven knows they had problems enough selling the phones. Like putting English-language ads in a Spanish-language inflight magazine (I saw that myself on a Houston-Orlando flight). The whole multibillion dollar deal went bankrupt and was bought on the cheap by an outfit which had a nice guaranteed government contract.

JayUtah
2006-Jul-07, 08:39 PM
Iridium is also an element associated with space because Earth is relatively poor in it while it is common in meteorites. It has the mystique of a "heaven-sent" substance -- metallic manna, as it were. I have a nostalgic ruling pen with iridium nibs (iridium is essentially incorrodible).

And yes, it was a complete business flop. It was marketed as a high-end globally-accessible communication network -- "Talk to anyone on the planet from anywhere on the planet". Except, for some reason, from in your office in a steel-framed building. The marketers forgot to optimize for the common case, a cardinal rule in productization.

And now every subsequent space launch has to play an additional game of Orbital Frogger to make it through that [expletive] constellation of largely-useless equipment.

Sigma_Orionis
2006-Jul-10, 07:57 PM
And all that for the modical fee of 3 US$ a minute :D, I realize that as it became more common the price would go down but then we have the classic Chicken and Egg problem.....