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Dragon Star
2006-Jul-16, 06:58 PM
I know some of you read the thread title and thought "Oh no...not this!" But yes, two nights ago I stayed up and watched the movie after reading the synopsis, and I actually found the movie very interesting but slightly far-fetched, but well done and explained, and the scientists involved have very impressive backgrounds in a variety of subjects.

Now, I realize the movie had some serious religious overtones, please stay away from that as that is not the intention of this thread, I only want to discuss some of the scientific information presented in the film. (Mods, please keep a close eye)

So, is the movie based off of factual evidence or is it complete philosophy hogwash? Was how they explained the workings of the brain realistic and factual about the neurological processes involved? What about the views of Quantum Physics presented in the film? Is it really possible to physically be in two or more different places experiencing multiple things at once?

01101001
2006-Jul-16, 07:30 PM
See also:

Topic Please comment on "What the #$*! do we know" (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=12946) (August 2004)
Topic What the Bleep do we know (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=31740) (September 2005)

Gillianren
2006-Jul-16, 08:03 PM
It's hogwash. What's more, the people who made it (who have a complex not far from here) aren't interested so much in the science as the money. Maybe, if they get enough money, they can extend their fancy fence all the way around their property, or at least string up bad vibe-resistant copper wire on the chain link.

Dragon Star
2006-Jul-16, 08:07 PM
Thank you, I tried doing a search but no results came up strangely enough.

Still those threads lack scientific discussion for the post part, Lot's of "Bah! It's **" talk, other then that, not much.

Anyone have any comments on the topics I mentioned?

Dragon Star
2006-Jul-16, 08:08 PM
It's hogwash. What's more, the people who made it (who have a complex not far from here) aren't interested so much in the science as the money. Maybe, if they get enough money, they can extend their fancy fence all the way around their property, or at least string up bad vibe-resistant copper wire on the chain link.

Do you mind supporting why?

Gillianren
2006-Jul-16, 09:04 PM
Because they're trying to apply quantum physics in such a way that makes their leader's claim of being . . . oh, I don't remember; I think a channeler for an Atlantean sage, but I could be wrong, plausible.

In fact, the scientists who were interviewed in it say they were pretty much quoted out of context to support that assumption. (Okay, I've looked some of it up--we're talking 35,000-year-old sage.) Those who were not quoted out of context are generally associated with Ramtha in some way.

Oh, and don't you think people see things they've never seen before fairly regularly? If you can do it, and I can do it, why can't the Arawak? Sure, they'd never seen ships before, but I saw the first hybrid car I was presented with before I was told that it was a hybrid car. That one idea is so ludicrous I'd be hard-pressed to take the rest of it seriously. Even without the whole "apparently, bad vibes only enter the compound from the front" thing.

Dragon Star
2006-Jul-16, 09:23 PM
I'm not saying whether or not I agree or disagree, I just wanted to know what the scientific community thought.

The biggest load of crap I saw in the entire film was them explaining the pictures of how different kinds of Chi turns water into snowflake designs. That was a bit way woo-woo to say the least. Also the study they claim that a bunch of people got together and meditated for a few days and the crime rate dropped 25% is pretty off the wall...I'll give you that.

But I did like how they suggested the brain works in relation to neurological pathways and functionality, and how the brain changes throughout your experiences and/or thought patterns of cells and how they function... is this right? What flaws did that contain?

Also, is it really that bad to have an open mind, even thought you might be wrong making an assumption?

Gillianren
2006-Jul-16, 09:46 PM
Well, gods know I'm far from an expert on the science of it, but at the very least, my understanding is that quantum physics doesn't really operate on the macro level, whereas humans pretty much do.

As to being open-minded . . . well, there's the standard "not so open that your brain doesn't fall out" response, of course, but more to the point, I happen to know about how much they charge for sessions on how to control your environment through positive thought. In essence, the movie is a commercial for the classes taught out at the compound. While my friend who took a few back in, say, the late 80s (hippie mother), says that they did have some worthwhile stuff to say about goals, it really isn't, apparently, worth what they charge. What's more, even her mother doesn't go anymore, and it's not just the thousands of dollars it would take.

WaxRubiks
2006-Jul-17, 12:47 AM
I think it is right that quantum mechanics doesn't work on the macro level but there must be some connection.

GDwarf
2006-Jul-17, 01:52 AM
One of the chemistry teachers at my school recommended I watch this, I haven't yet, simply hearing the description "Quantum mechanics applied on a macro level" scared me away. I mean, if you try to do that you'll be wondering why people don't teleport everywhere and start spinning in multiple directions at once...

Roy Batty
2006-Jul-17, 08:32 AM
I think it is right that quantum mechanics doesn't work on the macro level but there must be some connection.
That connection being, a vanishingly, incredibly tiny probability that a whole bunch of sub atomic particles will decide to act together once in a blue moon :)

Gerrsun
2006-Jul-17, 11:41 AM
One of the chemistry teachers at my school recommended I watch this, I haven't yet, simply hearing the description "Quantum mechanics applied on a macro level" scared me away. I mean, if you try to do that you'll be wondering why people don't teleport everywhere and start spinning in multiple directions at once...


Hrmmm. I sure feel like that this morning. "Teleported' in to work sine i dont even remember the drive in and I been 'spinnin' since I got here.

Kesh
2006-Jul-17, 02:56 PM
I think it is right that quantum mechanics doesn't work on the macro level but there must be some connection.
The connection is about the same as trying to intentionally change the motion of a single water molecule in a lake by swirling the water with your hands.

Or, to put it another way, it's like trying to pick up a LEGO brick with a forklift. The two things are on such vastly different scales as to make it almost impossible to achieve the desired results.

Now, try to build a LEGO house using that forklift, and it shows just how difficult any attempt to affect quantum-level matter with a macro-level object to have a (desired) macro-level effect is.

BigDon
2006-Jul-17, 05:47 PM
Gerrson wrote:Hrmmm. I sure feel like that this morning. "Teleported' in to work sine i dont even remember the drive in and I been 'spinnin' since I got here.
Today 01:32 AM



Once, back in the '80s when I was a sailor, for some reason I thought it would be a good idea to get completely and utterly wrecked on a work night. My consiousness passed out around 10pm but sadly, my body didn't. There was a lot of fallout from that night, but the weirdest thing was when I woke up. About 6:30am my supervisor shook me awake and when I came to I was in uniform, laying on the work table in my shop.

Why this was odd was because it was in a high security work area that I didn't have the keys to, was guarded, (none of whom saw me) and I would have had to pass through two different check points, not counting the windows which were more than twelve feet off the ground and didn't open all the way. Nothing was broken, the roving patrols didn't see me, and the door was still locked. They accused me of being able to teleport while really drunk. To this day I have no clue as to how I got in there.

BD

novaderrik
2006-Jul-18, 03:35 AM
Also the study they claim that a bunch of people got together and meditated for a few days and the crime rate dropped 25% is pretty off the wall...I'll give you that.

of course it makes sense- 25% of the criminals were meditating, and, as such, couldn't go out and commit crimes..

TriangleMan
2006-Jul-18, 04:44 AM
The movie review at the Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics (http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html) website is a good place to start for why that movie is little more than a propoganda piece for Ramtha devotees.

Dragon Star
2006-Jul-18, 04:48 AM
The movie review at the Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics (http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html) website is a good place to start for why that movie is little more than a propoganda piece for Ramtha devotees.

Ah-hah! Now that's the kind of thing I was looking for, thank you very much!

TriangleMan
2006-Jul-18, 08:12 AM
Here's another great review (http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/what_the_bleep_.html) with some discussion of the 'studies' the movie uses to support their pseudobabble. One of the studies this movie apparantly waves around as proof actually won an IgNobel prize.

SaskWatch
2006-Jul-19, 05:16 AM
One of my favourite moments in the movie - there are so many - is the giddy explanation of what happens to the missing mass after an atom is smashed in a linear accelerator:

"It flies off to another universe!!" It isn't converted to energy, it goes on vacation.

If they really believed that, they should have no problem sitting on a nuclear bomb and letting someone detonate it. :clap:

SaskWatch
2006-Jul-20, 06:29 AM
Sorry, Dragon Star, I should have responded more directly to your question, but I can't forgive the movie as you can. Science isn't the point of this movie, snagging vulnerable people who'll pay them $1,500 a session is. So I won't say any more. I'd delete my post if I knew how.

Dragon Star
2006-Jul-20, 07:06 AM
Hey, your fine, ranting is allowed.;)

(when you go to edit, it is at the top, it will ask you if you want to delete, although I think it has a time out after so many hours)

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jul-20, 03:14 PM
From what I figured out, you can delete a post as long as it's the last in a thread.

James_Digriz
2006-Jul-26, 07:09 PM
The movie review at the Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics (http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html) website is a good place to start for why that movie is little more than a propoganda piece for Ramtha devotees.

Thanks. Looks like a very good site.

As to the topic at hand, there are a lot of lost people out there. Just look at the popularity of Scientology.

Matherly
2006-Jul-26, 11:05 PM
That connection being, a vanishingly, incredibly tiny probability that a whole bunch of sub atomic particles will decide to act together once in a blue moon :)

Oh that's easy. You just use a finite improbiblity generator like the kind used to make all of the molucules in a hostesses undergarments simultaniously leap 3 feet to the left in order to break the ice at parties.

:cool:

SaskWatch
2006-Jul-30, 04:47 PM
Hey, your fine, ranting is allowed.;)

(when you go to edit, it is at the top, it will ask you if you want to delete, although I think it has a time out after so many hours)

Thanks, although the gods of the BAUT forums saw fit to make my monitor die, so I'll try to keep it to a minimum. :)

Roy Batty
2006-Jul-30, 11:59 PM
Oh that's easy. You just use a finite improbiblity generator like the kind used to make all of the molucules in a hostesses undergarments simultaniously leap 3 feet to the left in order to break the ice at parties.

:cool:
Would you like a nice hot cup of tea?;)