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ignorant_ape
2003-Apr-15, 10:23 AM
HEHE ! that got your attention :D

but seriously .

http://xgate.abovetopsecret.com/news.php?id=133

in short , star system HR 8210 is due to go supernova soon . reading the article carefully `soon ` may mean many milions of years

a couple of questions

1 - is this bad astro , google returns mainly KOOK web sites , and there is no hint of this "story" on NASA , JPL , Harvard etc or any astro news site spacenews.com etc where i like to read whats happening in the real world of astro / space flight

2 - what is the realistic danger ( ie eextinction level event ) radius of a star going nova . and lastly how ` feasible ` is it to force a star to go nova prematurely ( this is strictly for a RPG idea , in case anyone is wondering )

YRS - APE

Zachary
2003-Apr-15, 12:11 PM
Maybe if we're lucky the human race will live long enough to see it! :P

Oh, and the link also contains a couple of pop-up ads.

And I'm guessing to force a star to go nova (or did you mean supernova?), you'd need an awful lot of energy. Maybe a bomb which has the energy of a small star could do it? :P

Tito_Muerte
2003-Apr-15, 12:27 PM
...or a black hole. You could use that in your game. Something to do with a proton excellerator and then someone makes a black whole and fires it towards a star system some how......

Glom
2003-Apr-15, 12:51 PM
Proton excellerator? What's that? Do you mean accelerator?

Reacher
2003-Apr-15, 01:11 PM
Hmmm... sounds a lot like the "Sun Crusher" from the SW books.
I was just posting here to be sure that my definition of black hole is correct. as I understand it, its an incredibly massive, yet very small particle(correct term?).

Tito_Muerte
2003-Apr-15, 01:37 PM
oooh...fine.. accelerator....la dee da mr. goodspell.... :x

it was early and I have a Macroeconomics final in mere hours.... spelling is not too important at this point :wink:

nexus
2003-Apr-15, 01:40 PM
Black Holes are usually considered to be a singularity (I think this is still the correct theory), a singularity is a piont of infinite density, where time stands still. Plus that article assumes that the star will go supernova just because it is beyond the Chandra limit, but there are lots of stars beyond that limit, It won't go supernova until its binary partner runs out of fuel. This is a special type a supernova, I think it's a Ia but I could be wrong.

ToSeek
2003-Apr-15, 02:19 PM
Proton excellerator? What's that? Do you mean accelerator?

He means a proton exhilirator. It gets protons excited.

traztx
2003-Apr-15, 02:52 PM
According to HERE (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/universe/supernova1a_nf_01.html) the output is 15 billion times the light of the sun.

I didn't see anything verifying the 150-200 LY minimum safe distance.

nebularain
2003-Apr-15, 04:46 PM
it was early and I have a Macroeconomics final in mere hours....

Do you mean you are actually studying this time?

(Ducks and runs before Tito throws his 15-pound textbook at me!)

crazy4space
2003-Apr-15, 05:17 PM
[quote="ignorant_ape"]HEHE ! that got your attention :D

Yeah! You are right that did get my attention. It remindes me of a quote that I heard from the Smithsonian regarding the hope diamond. it said " Everyone who wears the hope diamond dies and - everyone who doesnt wear the hope diamond dies" But seriously, making a star go super nova? Wow, who could do that but God?

My initials are on the moon because Gene Cernan put them there.

Tito_Muerte
2003-Apr-15, 05:19 PM
no I wasn't actually studying when I said that...i was merely using it as an excuse.


But I am studying now...kinda. (Does reading the course notes for the first time count as "studying"? or "familiarizing"?)

RichField
2003-Apr-15, 06:32 PM
it was early and I have a Macroeconomics final in mere hours.... spelling is not too important at this point :wink:

It is if you meant micro :D

tracer
2003-Apr-15, 06:58 PM
From the article linked to in the OP:

Called HR 8210, it is a humble white dwarf, a star that has run out of fuel and should be too small to produce a supernova. But it may not stay that way. First, it is not alone, but is orbiting a companion star in a typical binary system. And it is 1.15 times the mass of our Sun, which for a white dwarf is a whopper.
[ ... ]
The crunch will come when HR 8210's companion begins to run out of fuel. As it expands to form a red giant star, its outer layers will be dumped onto HR 8210, pushing it over the Chandrasekar limit.
So, it sounds like they're talking about a Type Ia Supernova -- wherein a white dwarf in a mass-exchange binary accretes enough material to go boom. (When I hear about stars that could "go supernova", people are usually referring to heavy supergiant stars that will end their lives in a Type II Supernova explosion.)

But I'm a little puzzled about the catalog-numbering terminology used by the article. The HR catalog, also known as the Hoffleit Bright Star catalog, only contains stars bright enough to be visible to the naked eye. The white dwarf component of the system cannot be bright enough to be a naked eye object. The HR 8210 designation almost certainly refers to the white dwarf and its companion collectively. (Usually, when two stars are part of a binary system -- especially a binary system close enough together to form a mass-exchange binary when one of the stars goes Red Giant -- they'll be so close together that they won't be resolved separately when first discovered. They'll therefore be assigned a single HR number, and when it later becomes clear that there are two physical stars there, the two will be labelled something like HR 8210 A and HR 8210 B, with the B designation falling to the dimmer member of the system.)

Tito_Muerte
2003-Apr-15, 07:05 PM
Clever Richy, real clever :roll:

irony
2003-Apr-15, 07:19 PM
Of course we're all going to die. None of us are elves that I know of. :D

darkhunter
2003-Apr-15, 07:41 PM
Of course we're all going to die. None of us are elves that I know of. :D

As a dragoliche, already been there done that, got the tee-shirt....and came back even stronger

tracer
2003-Apr-16, 12:14 AM
Hah, but there are no Dracoliches in 3rd Edition!

tracer
2003-Apr-16, 12:18 AM
Speaking of Type I supernovae:

When I was growing up, type I supernovae were supposed to be caused by a neutron star that accreted a heapin' helpin' of material from a companion in a mass-exchange binary. Now I'm hearing that type I supernovae can be caused by a white dwarf that accreted enough material from a companion in a mass-exchange binary to exceed the 1.4 solar mass Chandrashekar Limit.

Has the neutron star model for type I supernovae been completely thrown out, or what?

RickNZ
2003-Apr-16, 04:02 AM
Where do you get a excellerator from? My spread sheet runs awefully slow :D

Dickenmeyer
2003-Apr-16, 04:23 AM
A neutron star is what is left over after a type II supernova, the pulsar in the Crab Nebula being a good example. That is if the star in question doesn't have enough mass to wind up a black hole (about 3 solar masses) after the supernova explosion.

darkhunter
2003-Apr-16, 07:45 PM
Hah, but there are no Dracoliches in 3rd Edition!

See how neatly I took care of my competition?


Any way you look at it, I wouldn't want to be too close to soething that can outshine an entire galaxy....

Russ
2003-Apr-16, 08:36 PM
Speaking of Type I supernovae:

When I was growing up, type I supernovae were supposed to be caused by a neutron star that accreted a heapin' helpin' of material from a companion in a mass-exchange binary. Now I'm hearing that type I supernovae can be caused by a white dwarf that accreted enough material from a companion in a mass-exchange binary to exceed the 1.4 solar mass Chandrashekar Limit.

Has the neutron star model for type I supernovae been completely thrown out, or what?
There are now sub-catagories eg: IA,B,C, IIA,B,C etc. You can find out more at http://www.space.com

Charlie in Dayton
2003-Apr-16, 11:28 PM
Speaking of supernovae:

Tim Puckett of The Puckett Observatory (http://www.cometwatch.com/) and Dr. Dave Toth (search team member and member

of the Miami Valley Astronomical society -- scroll down to find him (http://www.cometwatch.com/search.html)) have discovered

ANOTHER supernova. It's SN 2003dr in NGC 5714, at Magnitude 18.

There's comet images (http://www.cometwatch.com/comets.shtml), galaxy/nebula

images (http://www.cometwatch.com/dec1.shtml), and supernova images (http://www.astronomyatlanta.com/nova.html) here for your enjoyment also.

A nice read to see how they do it all with deep-sky CCD imaging.

tracer
2003-Apr-17, 12:52 AM
There are now sub-catagories eg: IA,B,C, IIA,B,C etc. You can find out more at http://www.space.com
I can't find any links to articles on supernova classification from space.com's front page. Do you have a link to a specific article I could read?

ToSeek
2003-Apr-17, 02:18 AM
There are now sub-catagories eg: IA,B,C, IIA,B,C etc. You can find out more at http://www.space.com
I can't find any links to articles on supernova classification from space.com's front page. Do you have a link to a specific article I could read?

Handy-dandy diagram (http://www.ociw.edu/~mhamuy/presentations/img2.htm)

Handy-dandy table (http://www.chapman.edu/oca/benet/sntypes.htm)

More technical with more (but harder to read) diagrams (http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~qzhang/seminar1bfigs/node2.html)

Russ
2003-Apr-17, 02:35 AM
There are now sub-catagories eg: IA,B,C, IIA,B,C etc. You can find out more at http://www.space.com
I can't find any links to articles on supernova classification from space.com's front page. Do you have a link to a specific article I could read?
Please excuse me for not checking that link before posting it. :oops: SPACE.com no longer had the link I had followed and enjoyed. Please try:
http://www.chapman.edu/oca/benet/intro_sn.htm
It has some brief discussions and simple graphics which should help you. I have also found that by following the Astronomy link from the YaHoooo home page you can get an absurd number of hits just by searching on "types of supernova". Yes I know the conjugation "supernova" is wrong in this context, it should be supernavae but this is Yahooo after all. :roll: :D

gethen
2003-Apr-17, 02:48 PM
To Seek's "handy dandy table" is great--conscise and easty to read, even for amateurs like myself.

tracer
2003-Apr-17, 11:24 PM
Hmmm ... ToSeek's handy-dandy table says that only Type Ia supernovae are created from white dwarfs exceeding the Chandrasekhar limit, but Russ's chapman.edu page says that all Type I supernovae -- Type Ia, Type Ib, and Type Ic -- are created from white dwarfs exceeding the Chandrasekhar limit.

And none of them says anything about any kinds of supernovae that are formed by a neutron star that accretes additional material onto itself in a mass-exchange binary.

So ... the old hypothesis that neutron stars, and not white dwarfs, are the perpetrators of Type I supernovae is out the window, then?