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Bilateralrope
2005-May-26, 07:59 AM
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050523/laptops.html


Basically a laptop is being designed for use in develpoing countries (aiming for $100 per laptop). Naturally hey have to reduce the cost of parts in various ways


Since batteries are few and far between in developing countries, Negroponte plans on technologically simple and cheap power methods, such as turning a hand crank.

I though that handcranking was an obselete method of generating power, but I guess it isn't

frogesque
2005-May-26, 08:12 AM
Hand cranking is a very variable form of output, not to mention electronically 'noisy'. You would still need good voltage regulation, filtering and stabilising of the powersupply. Rechargeables aren't that costly and I think if the technology can be developed to manufacture solar panels on a flexible roll mat at knock down prices then the problem is sorted. Communication is really the key and ecconomical links to satellite coms is the answer there.

Fram
2005-May-26, 08:20 AM
i thought they used a system where they charged a battery by a handcrank. That way, the irregularity isn't a problem, the battery works as a buffer. I have no idea if that is the plan with the laptops, but a few years ago, the same happened in South Africa with cheap but apparently good radios. I presume this is a follow-up to that story.

Maksutov
2005-May-26, 08:25 AM
This gives a whole new meaning and nuance to the expression, "Just a minute while I crank out some numbers." :D

frogesque
2005-May-26, 08:43 AM
Yep, hand cranking has been around for a long time - at least pre WWII and rehcharging a battery is nothing new either. I got the impression the idea was to get away from battery back up. For a radio receiver (not transmitter) micro watts will do the job and can easily be run off a solar cell similar to that used in a $ calculator (or even a crystal set which requires no additional external power source). The power requirements for a lappy are somewhat different, especially if you are using a hard drive - pretty essential these days.

I would like to see some investment in low power portable generation equipment say ~100 - 250 watts. Hand cranking (actually converted bicycle is more effective or use a wind generator) is effective but the efficiencies are awful. You really need a decent alternator, rare earth magnets and heavy windings for good output with the attendant electronics and that doesn't come cheap because it's not a mass market with little incentive and no ecconomies of scale. There is so much could be done at the low tech end that would ultimately benefit us all as we seek to find ways to reduce reliance on convential power station/grid supply networks.

01101001
2005-May-26, 08:49 AM
From way back in 1997, CNN on the BayGen crank computer (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9708/06/safrica.computer/).

I guess those talks with Apple didn't go too well.

The BayGen mechanism of that time involved a crank to store energy in a spring -- no battery -- and a generator.

frogesque
2005-May-26, 09:21 AM
From way back in 1997, CNN on the BayGen crank computer (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9708/06/safrica.computer/).

I guess those talks with Apple didn't go too well.

The BayGen mechanism of that time involved a crank to store energy in a spring -- no battery -- and a generator.

Wind up radio (http://windupradio.com/freeplay3.htm)

Fram
2005-May-26, 09:47 AM
From way back in 1997, CNN on the BayGen crank computer (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9708/06/safrica.computer/).

I guess those talks with Apple didn't go too well.

The BayGen mechanism of that time involved a crank to store energy in a spring -- no battery -- and a generator.

Wind up radio (http://windupradio.com/freeplay3.htm)

Thanks, that looks like the one I was talking about. I believe they first developed (or sold?) it in South Africa.

mid
2005-May-26, 12:00 PM
Basically a laptop is being designed for use in develpoing countries (aiming for $100 per laptop). Naturally hey have to reduce the cost of parts in various ways

If it's anything like when I tried to price up a laptop online recently, they cost a pittance. Plus 150 for XP Pro, plus 320 for Office. Oops, that's just doubled the price.

Charlie in Dayton
2005-May-26, 09:19 PM
Google Grundig FR200.

Little AM/FM/SW rig, runs off 3 AA batteries or crank it for a couple of minutes to charge the internal NiCaD pack for an hour's listening or so. There's a built-in small white-light flashlight, too. The 1/8" headphone jack is a stereo, but the sound is 'simulated stereo' -- BUT -- if you plug in a set of those little powered computer speakers, the sound is EXCELLENT! (I've got a single Harman-Kardon computer speaker plugged in with a stereo-stereo jumper cable...works great). Good sensitivity and selectivity on the AM band. FM suffers slightly in urban areas. SW is more than adequate -- inside a house, 25' of wire running around the edge of the ceiling behind the curtains, and with a gator clip to attach to the end of the antenna, and you will be amazed at just what this little beastie can pick up.

Available at Radio Shaft for about 40 smackeroonies, in gray/pearl/yellow/red/blue.

For something to have around, especially if the power goes out, this beez the ones, folks.

Now...if and when they come out with a matching crank-powered laptop with WiFi...

mid
2005-May-27, 09:45 AM
Our Freeplay runs off mains, solar or hand-cranking, so you're sorted in any situation. It also sounds wonderful - highly recommended.

Sam5
2005-May-28, 01:49 PM
Wow, this is great. I have a hand-crank radio (Grundig FR200) and a hand-crank flashlight (Durapro). They need no batteries.

Ive seen TV programs about how they work. One report said that one system charges a regular ni-cad battery, and the other system uses capacitors to store the charge.

What some third-world villages need is a horse or cow powered generator. It could be the size of a sugar cane mill (about 2 x 2 x 2). Ive seen sugar cane mills driven by horse. The horse is attached to the end of a long pole and he walks around in a circle for an hour or so.

I was in a village in Honduras that had one telegraph line going in and out of town, and it used a few D-cells to power it.

zebo-the-fat
2005-May-28, 02:02 PM
I have a hand-cranked flashlight, cranking it charges li-ion cells and feeds 4 white LEDs. It's handy to keep in the car for emergencies. I think 3 mins of winding gives about 30 mins of light. :D

Bilateralrope
2005-May-28, 09:55 PM
Basically a laptop is being designed for use in develpoing countries (aiming for $100 per laptop). Naturally hey have to reduce the cost of parts in various ways

If it's anything like when I tried to price up a laptop online recently, they cost a pittance. Plus 150 for XP Pro, plus 320 for Office. Oops, that's just doubled the price.

Why do think these laptops will run windows ? The article states that they will run linux.


The laptop will have wireless capabilities and a Linux operating system, which looks a lot like Microsoft Windows but has the advantage of costing nothing.

ToSeek
2006-Jul-24, 07:15 PM
The $100 laptop is coming (http://www.physorg.com/news72968887.html)


Some manufacturers Dr. Mary Lou Jepsen approached about producing and selling a laptop computer for $100 laughed at her. Despite this chiding and disbelief, the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) chief technology officer has persevered, and the $100 laptop is on track to be shipped next spring.

WaxRubiks
2006-Jul-24, 08:18 PM
maybe they can be used in the 3rd world.

edit-oh I see, they are.

Digix
2006-Jul-24, 08:22 PM
very old news, but they do not mention what parameters it have.
i dont see that it can have cdrom, hdd, and probably everything else is pathetic
and without internet it is probably nothing more than nintendo clone.

it is relatively easy to make even cheaper computer, however color lcd screen is most expensive component. everything else can be made inside of one IC for few $.

also it would be quite good to use these computers as some general cpu platform for some small projects.

Blob
2006-Jul-24, 08:36 PM
The proposed laptops will run on the linux operating system, and will be rugged, wireless enabled, 4 USB ports, and have full colour screens. MIT are hoping to power the notebooks using an alternative power source such as solar or wind up. Current specs are: 500MHz processor, and 1GB hard drive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_Per_Child

GDwarf
2006-Jul-24, 09:53 PM
Well, without knowing any of the specs but those I'd call them useful. A cheap, easy to use, computer that will be able to do anything but image processing and game playing. Sounds like a life saver for quite a few people who can't afford better.

01101001
2006-Jul-24, 09:54 PM
See older pre-prototype discussion in topic handcranked laptops (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=413570#post413570).

WaxRubiks
2006-Jul-24, 09:57 PM
I wonder how are they going to provide internet connection, surely the best way to use a computer educationally?

Digix
2006-Jul-24, 10:16 PM
Well, without knowing any of the specs but those I'd call them useful. A cheap, easy to use, computer that will be able to do anything but image processing and game playing. Sounds like a life saver for quite a few people who can't afford better.

specs are here, they cvhange each month since everywhere they are different
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%24100_laptop

this is only kids toy, if you need cheap computer you will use some used computer which you can get for free or for few $, used computers today are very cheap, unless you desperately want laptop.


this 100$ laptop can be good alternative to this type of toy
http://www.dmartstores.com/vt65totalain.html

I wonder why they chose x86 cpu,. that architectire is terrible, why they do not use ARM which have lower energy consumption and lower cost.
some have all pheriperials integrated, basicaly you will have big usual pocketpc with power consumption less than 1W
as I know all computer can be made of 3 chips cpu, RAM, Flash.

GDwarf
2006-Jul-24, 10:33 PM
specs are here, they cvhange each month since everywhere they are different
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%24100_laptop

this is only kids toy, if you need cheap computer you will use some used computer which you can get for free or for few $, used computers today are very cheap, unless you desperately want laptop.
Where exactly can I get a free laptop like that that requires no access to an electrical power source? That is, after all, the goal of this project.

For $100 it's actually pretty good, I mean, 4 years ago you'd be paying a lot more then that for a desktop with those specs.

Digix
2006-Jul-24, 11:00 PM
It is not so bad, but not nothing good also, power consumption is still too high,if you compare with my pocketpc because cpu architecture is bad.
(small battery is enough for pocketpc computer to run for hours, 1,5ah LiION equals about 3-4hours running time)
You can atach generator to any computer, but in africa solar cells will produce more energy.

also if we use greyscale lcd, we can reduce power consupmtion almost to nothing, because it will work without lamp.

Also NiMh bateries are to slow to charge and too losy, if you aim for cost, not for size, then why not use ionistors(supercapacitors)? place one charger in school and let everyone charge their batteries within 1 second.

if they are trying to make PC clone to run pirated windows they are dommed.
linux can run on anything, and no need to use old x86 architecture.

So there are quite many design flaws, and I am quite sure it will not suceed. they use just wrong way.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jul-24, 11:18 PM
A point here is that by making it with an x86, they are opening up the possibility that Microsoft can see a chance to indoctrinate young minds and donates the software for them in schools etc.

For normal pc use (which doesn't include playing the latest MegaMaxiFullyRenderedFlashySplashy100FPS shooter) it's perfectly good.

Digix
2006-Jul-25, 03:14 AM
A point here is that by making it with an x86, they are opening up the possibility that Microsoft can see a chance to indoctrinate young minds and donates the software for them in schools etc.

We can be sure about that. But probably most people will use pirated windows versions it they manage top fit windows + office into 1gb flash memory.


For normal pc use (which doesn't include playing the latest MegaMaxiFullyRenderedFlashySplashy100FPS shooter) it's perfectly good.
the biggest problem is power consupmtion. x86 is not even near to modern RISC processors when we compare power per MIPS, cost, and other features.. also they need aditional chipset for VGA and pheriperial controll

WaxRubiks
2006-Jul-25, 03:31 AM
I would think that this project would be supported by Microsoft, if people in the 3rd world go and get pirated windows it wouldn't be supported and then where would they be?

Sock puppet
2006-Jul-25, 12:44 PM
It is not so bad, but not nothing good also, power consumption is still too high,if you compare with my pocketpc because cpu architecture is bad.
(small battery is enough for pocketpc computer to run for hours, 1,5ah LiION equals about 3-4hours running time)
You can atach generator to any computer, but in africa solar cells will produce more energy.

also if we use greyscale lcd, we can reduce power consupmtion almost to nothing, because it will work without lamp.

Also NiMh bateries are to slow to charge and too losy, if you aim for cost, not for size, then why not use ionistors(supercapacitors)? place one charger in school and let everyone charge their batteries within 1 second.

if they are trying to make PC clone to run pirated windows they are dommed.
linux can run on anything, and no need to use old x86 architecture.

So there are quite many design flaws, and I am quite sure it will not suceed. they use just wrong way.
This is not a childs toy. It is an educational tool. And it must be affordable in order to achieve its goal. Li-ion batteries are expensive. I'll bet your pocket pc cost a bit more than $100 too. Supercapacitors are also very expensive, and unless everyone has expensive batteries on the laptops too, they won't be able to charge that fast.

It may at some stage be necessary for you to recognise that the real world imposes practical limitations on things.

Digix
2006-Jul-25, 01:33 PM
I would think that this project would be supported by Microsoft, if people in the 3rd world go and get pirated windows it wouldn't be supported and then where would they be?

As I see on these links Bill Gates have similar opinion about this computer like mine.
also windows system is not enough, you will need word processor, and lots of other software.
All that must be free with no exceptions, and they must be not some crippled demo versions.
Microsoft policy will newer alow to do that.
In any case they will either use linux, either pirated windows software. On pc clone pirated software will win.
On some other architecture only linux and open source can be used.


This is not a childs toy. It is an educational tool. And it must be affordable in order to achieve its goal. Li-ion batteries are expensive. I'll bet your pocket pc cost a bit more than $100 too. Supercapacitors are also very expensive, and unless everyone has expensive batteries on the laptops too, they won't be able to charge that fast.

supercapacitors are cheaper than any type of battery, but they are not so mass effective. you will need to use quite big capacitors, but that is not problem here, this laptop is big anyway. they realy charge very fast if you prowide enough power.


It may at some stage be necessary for you to recognise that the real world imposes practical limitations on things.

in case of such limitation it is possible to use completely differnt ways. And this project is just atempt to make cripled version of PC computer. Its color and design makes it look like toy.
this http://www.dmartstores.com/vt65totalain.html
is also "educational tool" but noone sugests it to poor people.

Sock puppet
2006-Jul-25, 04:52 PM
Supercapacitors are cheaper? Really? Would you care to provide any evidence of that?

Is it really relevent if "Its color and design makes it look like toy."? I would have thought that functionality was more important. (AFAIK, the design is deliberately distinctive so that they are less likely to be stolen) This is not an attempt to make a crippled PC, it's an attempt to make cheap PCs so that as many people as possible can benefit from the educational opportunities they provide.

ToSeek
2006-Jul-25, 05:49 PM
Its color and design makes it look like toy.

So does the default look-and-feel of Windows XP, but people still use it.

I assume it's supposed to look like a toy since it's designed for children.

Digix
2006-Jul-25, 08:41 PM
Supercapacitors are cheaper? Really? Would you care to provide any evidence of that?
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2006/03/01/37810/Supercapacitors+see+growth+as+costs+fall.htm

1kj is nearly same as 1Ah for usual bateries(for single cell). so cost is nearly same, but seems I extrapolated to much into future, they are not cheaper now, but if you take in to account almost infinite recharge cycles, i think supercapacitor will win.


Is it really relevent if "Its color and design makes it look like toy."? I would have thought that functionality was more important. (AFAIK, the design is deliberately distinctive so that they are less likely to be stolen) This is not an attempt to make a crippled PC, it's an attempt to make cheap PCs so that as many people as possible can benefit from the educational opportunities they provide.

I have nothing against cheap computers for everyone, just tell me why they choose x86 architecture when there are better options
why not pake totaly new optimized design instead of trying to clone something that is based on 50 year old design.
(can imagine when after 1000 years quantum computer will be optimized to run 8 bit dos programs)
Cost for legacy software compatibility is very high and we all pay that price.
if we used new processor architectures we could have few times faster computers. Of course Microsoft would not acept such option, if you need to recompile all software each time when architecture is changed. But opensource software dont have that problem, you do not need even care which cpu you have, just compile and run and that all.

Such cheap computer is very desirable, and it can have even more uses, like home automation display console, dvd player, tecnological process controller, terminal server client and many other uses.
why limit it only for chidren? in africa I thing even adults rarely have computers, do you expect each 5Y kid to be computerized with personal console to surf porn pages on internet.

ToSeek
2006-Jul-25, 09:04 PM
I have nothing against cheap computers for everyone, just tell me why they choose x86 architecture when there are better options
why not pake totaly new optimized design instead of trying to clone something that is based on 50 year old design.
(can imagine when after 1000 years quantum computer will be optimized to run 8 bit dos programs)

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder. If you're looking to do something as cheaply as possible, legacy hardware is generally a lot cheaper than something innovative. It's been said that the first new CPU chip costs $2 billion and all the rest cost fifty cents - and these people don't have $2 billion.

But, yeah, it does seem as if 22nd century AI software is doing to be backwards compatible with the 8088.

Digix
2006-Jul-25, 11:54 PM
"Better" is in the eye of the beholder. If you're looking to do something as cheaply as possible, legacy hardware is generally a lot cheaper than something innovative. It's been said that the first new CPU chip costs $2 billion and all the rest cost fifty cents - and these people don't have $2 billion.

But, yeah, it does seem as if 22nd century AI software is doing to be backwards compatible with the 8088.

I work mostly with electronic, i know something in that area. x86 cpu is very complex, it uses lots of die space, just look how big is your pc cpu crystal.

here is some price and die size comparison
http://128.232.0.20/Teaching/2004/CompArch/mynotes.pdf

{ $0.50: 8bit micro controller
{ $3: XScale (ARM)
(400MHz, 0.18m, 20mm2, 2.1M[1M])
{ $500: Pentium IV Celeron
(1.2GHz, 0.13m, 131mm2, 28M[4M])
{ $150: Pentium IV
(3.2GHz, 0.09m, 180mm2, 42M[7M])
{ $2200: Itanium2
(1Ghz, 0.18m, 421mm2, 221M[15M])


now let make pur cheapest computer.

CPU 400 mhz +all pheriperials integrated price unknown but probably not more than 20$ http://www.samsung.com/products/semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/SC32442/SC32442.htm
RAM lets use 256mb that will be 15$
FLASH rom is quite expensive, but it will be 20-30$ for 500mb
now we need LCD and these are extremely expensive. I hardly imagine how you can fit bare lcd into 100$ so leave it for now.
battery will be small 6Ah 3v should be enough for few hours. that will be another 10$
so total cost will be 20+15+30+10 75$ without lcd If we manage to get components for lower cost it can be possible to save some. these prices are same as I know from computer stores. So actual ones can be 2-3 times lower.

for lcds we probably can use defected stuff from factory with too many dead dots.

so it is possible to fit in 100$ and make usable computer easily.

hewhocaves
2006-Jul-26, 04:30 AM
I'm hoping that they'll put it out on the open market as well as focus on the dev. world. I have a feeling that this is one of those things that people will find uses for waaay beyond what the original manufacturers intended.

ToSeek
2006-Jul-26, 04:15 PM
Buy a hundred, network them, and have a $10,000 supercomputer....

Nicolas
2006-Jul-26, 07:49 PM
^^^^^^^
forgot to add the stable of handcrank monkeys in those situations where supercomputing capacity is needed but no power source is available

ToSeek
2006-Jul-26, 08:51 PM
What do you think grad students are for?

hewhocaves
2006-Jul-27, 04:28 AM
a million monkeys cranking a million laptops for a million years will eventually build a linux OS.

windows? 5 monkeys, one laptop, thirteen minutes. LOL

Argos
2006-Jul-27, 06:54 PM
India rejects $100 laptop project (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/26/india_says_no_to_olpc/)

ToSeek
2006-Jul-27, 08:56 PM
I have to say that I wonder if I had a billion dollars to spend on education whether buying ten million laptop computers would be my first priority.

ryanmercer
2006-Jul-27, 09:00 PM
I'm tired of seeing news from different companies/groups that are making a "100$ laptop" shouldn't we worry more about feeding the starving masses than equipping african youth with laptops?

Kesh
2006-Jul-27, 11:56 PM
I'm tired of seeing news from different companies/groups that are making a "100$ laptop" shouldn't we worry more about feeding the starving masses than equipping african youth with laptops?
Here we go again. This is on the same level as "why go into space, spend the money on food." One does not have anything to do with the other. Nor will throwing money at the problem solve world hunger.

Digix
2006-Jul-28, 12:09 AM
Yes, that is strange, even european and USA kids rarely have laptops, and thye talk about computerization of all african youth with toy like laptops.

at least tehy could make unified design for adults and clildren, not these flashy toys, but simple boring standard laptops.

hewhocaves
2006-Jul-28, 12:20 AM
Here we go again. This is on the same level as "why go into space, spend the money on food." One does not have anything to do with the other. Nor will throwing money at the problem solve world hunger.

on the other hand, with american obesity at all time highs (and growing) it's probably only a matter of time until this planet passes critical mass and becomes a singularity.

at which point, space will come to us!

WaxRubiks
2006-Jul-28, 01:18 AM
It would seem better to make make a tailored educational database to met the needs of a far simpler, cheaper machine. Some kind of electronic book device with that new, likepaper screen that can hold a page with out needing power for hours. How much could a basic machine like this cost? You could distribute this machine to all the kids in the village, each machine could then be taken to a central village radio and could download requested data from the educational data bass.

Argos
2006-Jul-28, 12:12 PM
Yes, that is strange, even european and USA kids rarely have laptops, and thye talk about computerization of all african youth with toy like laptops.

You know, this intrigues me. I really dont get the point. Computers are terribly important, I know (In fact I make my living outta them). But there are more down-to-Earth issues concerning education of children in the so-called 'third world'. Computers should be the culmination of the process, not the starting point. And Im sure Dr. Negroponte knows that.

Ronald Brak
2006-Jul-28, 01:33 PM
Here we go again. This is on the same level as "why go into space, spend the money on food." One does not have anything to do with the other. Nor will throwing money at the problem solve world hunger.

Actually it would. Giving a 10 cents or more a day to people who are hungry and you would pretty much eliminate most hunger in the world. Ten American cents can buy a lot of food in most poor countries.

ToSeek
2006-Jul-28, 03:19 PM
Actually it would. Giving a 10 cents or more a day to people who are hungry and you would pretty much eliminate most hunger in the world. Ten American cents can buy a lot of food in most poor countries.

My impression is not that they can't afford food, but that there's no food available for them to afford - frequently due to mismanagement by their own country's government. If it were that easy to fix, I think it would be.

Digix
2006-Jul-28, 04:49 PM
You know, this intrigues me. I really dont get the point. Computers are terribly important, I know (In fact I make my living outta them). But there are more down-to-Earth issues concerning education of children in the so-called 'third world'. Computers should be the culmination of the process, not the starting point. And Im sure Dr. Negroponte knows that.

I think computer could help a lot if used properly, for example they can replace teachers, and everyone will learn everything by himself. It is easy to make some self teach courses.
african kids have some diffrrence from spoiled europeans: they want to learn something, as as I know our kids learn only because you force them. main purpose of teacher is to force kids to learn variuos useless crap.
Why you need school if you have computer with internet? everything can be done at home using videoconference.

Argos
2006-Jul-28, 05:53 PM
Why you need school if you have computer with internet? everything can be done at home using videoconference.

I´m a classic critic of the school system, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think school must change to keep up with new standards, starting with the question of physical presence.

Now, we´re talking about educational improvements in a mature society, and maybe the Third world is simply not ready for this step. Giving laptops to young Africans seems like a "shock of technology'. I doubt its efficacy. These laptops will require operational training, technical support, etc. Here in Brazil many digital inclusion projects struggle with lack of support in remote areas of the country. Many underdeveloped countries cannot afford that minimal infrastructure. There are also psycho-social issues that must be addressed, like motivation, community engagement, etc.

Digix
2006-Jul-28, 06:20 PM
Now, were talking about educational improvements in a mature society, and maybe the Third world is simply not ready for this step. Giving laptops to young Africans seems like a "shock of technology'. I doubt its efficacy. These laptops will require operational training, technical support, etc. Here in Brazil many digital inclusion projects struggle with lack of support in remote areas of the country. Many underdeveloped countries cannot afford that minimal infrastructure. There are also psycho-social issues that must be addressed, like motivation, community engagement, etc.

I saw one interesting reportage about such experiment in India.
one computer was fixed into the wall, and left there for free for everyone to use.
kids found it, and started to use, they learned everything with no manuals and special courses. It may sound unbelievable when we see people paying hundreds for computer courses that will finish with aproximately zero knowlege, and here poor kids learn everything imediately all by themselves.

So all wee need is will. that is also why I suggest to make standard and not even similar to toys, only these who understand their value must use them.
these computer can replace schools and teachers in africa.

it is possible to make very cheap computers I think I could make it even for 50$ or 20$ without display. Not only africans could benefit using computers, I would like to have free terminals everywhere.

Argos
2006-Jul-28, 06:26 PM
These experiments are useful to show that the road may not be so bumpy. Still I think a systematic approach is required. And yes, the toy look is ridiculous.

Kelfazin
2006-Jul-28, 06:34 PM
these computer can replace schools and teachers in africa.

Would you really want to remove the teachers and schools though? Don't you think there is a benefit to meeting together as a group and working/learning towards a common goal? I don't discount the benfit of working on your own for some topics, but I also think that guided, group learning can be a lot of fun and very beneficial as well.

Digix
2006-Jul-28, 07:45 PM
Would you really want to remove the teachers and schools though? Don't you think there is a benefit to meeting together as a group and working/learning towards a common goal? I don't discount the benfit of working on your own for some topics, but I also think that guided, group learning can be a lot of fun and very beneficial as well.

Groups will not disapear, but network alows to create better groups, with more common iterests. But why waste time on trip to school when you can meet at home? also lots of money can be saved on teachers and school buildings.
also we dont need to remove all teachers, they just should be consultants and guides who merely suggests what to do, and you choose if you want that or not. everyone who learns something will become teacher, because teaching is best way to learn.

Kelfazin
2006-Jul-28, 08:16 PM
Groups will not disapear, but network alows to create better groups, with more common iterests. But why waste time on trip to school when you can meet at home? also lots of money can be saved on teachers and school buildings.
also we dont need to remove all teachers, they just should be consultants and guides who merely suggests what to do, and you choose if you want that or not. everyone who learns something will become teacher, because teaching is best way to learn.

I think that even if you were to change to a virtual classroom there should still be a set curriculum and a teacher that is in charge, at least for the younger children. If the point of the computers is to provide a solid base of education, then allowing to pick and choose which subjects to learn will not work. What young child is going to choose History, or Government classes when there are cooler subjects to learn?

As an adult I have interest in a lot of subjects, but when i was a kid I HATED social studies, and math. If it were up to me I would have never taken those classes. But now that I'm older I find the knowledge given me in those subjects has been a great starting point for further studies.

I think a guided curriculum is essential to a solid education. And if we're not trying to provide a nice solid education, but to give them some education only on things that interest them then what's the point of the laptops? We could save a lot of money by sending them some TV's and access to Discovery channel, or the Food Network. :)

Digix
2006-Jul-28, 09:10 PM
I think that even if you were to change to a virtual classroom there should still be a set curriculum and a teacher that is in charge, at least for the younger children. If the point of the computers is to provide a solid base of education, then allowing to pick and choose which subjects to learn will not work. What young child is going to choose History, or Government classes when there are cooler subjects to learn?
when I was in school I hated it more than anything in the world, when I finished it I think I gave to much effort into learning that useless crap. later in university it was same, 4 years of doing nothing even remotely related to my chosen area. Ok, that fine for me no matter of that suffering I am still alive, but imagine how much money is wasted for that completely useless stuff?
Why do you want third world countries to waste money. I think knowing history, will not give better chance to produce competitive products.

you can chose any cool subjects but you should know that with umpopular suject you will not get job and finish your life as trash recycler with academic degree. so studies will be motivated with fear



As an adult I have interest in a lot of subjects, but when i was a kid I HATED social studies, and math. If it were up to me I would have never taken those classes. But now that I'm older I find the knowledge given me in those subjects has been a great starting point for further studies.
All subjects will be interesting if teached properly. if you dont like math you will not learn it anyway. So why waste effort? I was unable to learn humanitarian disciplines from begining until end, and I fee like much of my time was wasted.
I can bet that your math knowledge is near zero level ir you hated it from begining. and if you know something , these are only parts that you liked. you shoud not remember anything given by force.



I think a guided curriculum is essential to a solid education. And if we're not trying to provide a nice solid education, but to give them some education only on things that interest them then what's the point of the laptops? We could save a lot of money by sending them some TV's and access to Discovery channel, or the Food Network. :)
If you have no interest you cant learn that anyway. I know many people who were unable to learn physic no matter how they tryed, I personaly did not even read the textbook and had no problems everything was so easy.
now 98% of all my knowlegne comes from internet.
teaching must be driven by economic, if that speciality is required you learn it as soon as possible and use. Useless specialities would die very fast and only few enthusiats will remain.
We dont need solid education, we need to make people ready to work high tech jobs as soon as possible with least spent money. If something is not required we can omit that.
Personal computers is cheapest and fastest way to learn, if you can get required data. Tv is bad because you cant choose what you need.

I think it would pefect if 5 year child starts learning computer, at 10 years he gets job and at 12 year he is full working programmer or if he does not find job until he is 16 he will just starve to death, or will be working hard with miserable wage. I think seening many people die aroung will be not so bad motivation. of course that will not work in rich countries, where you can live with no arms, no legs and no brain.

Kelfazin
2006-Jul-28, 10:03 PM
when I was in school I hated it more than anything in the world, when I finished it I think I gave to much effort into learning that useless crap. later in university it was same, 4 years of doing nothing even remotely related to my chosen area. Ok, that fine for me no matter of that suffering I am still alive, but imagine how much money is wasted for that completely useless stuff?
Why do you want third world countries to waste money. I think knowing history, will not give better chance to produce competitive products.

I don't see a solid education as a waste of money. I see only educating kids on the cool subjects as a waste. If children had never been exposed to history, would we have archeologists or paleobotonists? Without them how would we know where oil comes from? If you don't learn the history of your country and attempt to understand why it IS a 3rd world country, how can you ever expect to change it?



you can chose any cool subjects but you should know that with umpopular suject you will not get job and finish your life as trash recycler with academic degree. so studies will be motivated with fear

When I was a kid i thought the coolest jobs were fireman and garbage man. I mean afterall, the garbageman got to stand on the outside of a truck while it was driving!

The point being how can you expect children with no experience in the real world to figure which jobs are crap jobs and which are the plum jobs? If nobody likes math so nobody decides to learn it, how does that help the country in the least? Is there any type of job that increases the economy of a country that doesn't include math? I can't think of any.



All subjects will be interesting if teached properly. if you dont like math you will not learn it anyway. So why waste effort? I was unable to learn humanitarian disciplines from begining until end, and I fee like much of my time was wasted.
I can bet that your math knowledge is near zero level ir you hated it from begining. and if you know something , these are only parts that you liked. you shoud not remember anything given by force.

I hated math. but my understanding of math is far from zero. True, I can't work out some of the complex formulas that a professional scientist uses, but that doesn't mean my education is math poor. And besides, this isn't about me.

I agree that anything can be taught if the teacher knows how to make it engaging, but without a required curriculum, why would any child take that course to find out it can be fun?



If you have no interest you cant learn that anyway.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. I know plenty about the early colonization period of American History, but I find this period to be just about the most boring subject to think about. I know it, not because I cared to learn it, but because it was needed. At the same time, I also have a lot better understanding of my country because of it.


I know many people who were unable to learn physic no matter how they tryed, I personaly did not even read the textbook and had no problems everything was so easy.
now 98% of all my knowlegne comes from internet.
teaching must be driven by economic, if that speciality is required you learn it as soon as possible and use.

So using this system every specialty would be lacking in personnel all the time because everybody would be sitting at the computer trying to figure out what they don't know. And why would anybody ever choose a specialty unless they were exposed to the merits of that job to begin with? Do you just ask the kids what profession they want and them advise them on the classes needed? "raise your hand if you want to be a machinest" or "stand up if you want to be a civil engineer". What kid is going to know what those are?


Useless specialities would die very fast and only few enthusiats will remain.

how would you define useless? Almost all types of job help build a society. If there is a market for the job somebody wants to due, why not give him the tools needed to be succesful?


We dont need solid education, we need to make people ready to work high tech jobs as soon as possible with least spent money. If something is not required we can omit that.
Personal computers is cheapest and fastest way to learn, if you can get required data. Tv is bad because you cant choose what you need.

Ok so you have your worker-bees that actually put together or program the needed items. Who designs what they make? Where does the money come from? Americans? Europeans? Are we going to send computers to Africa in the hopes we can then use those narrowly educated drones to do our manufacturing for us? Or is the intention, rather, to make them self sufficient? If you want the country to begin to thrive on its own you will need businessmen and women, you will need accountants, you will need attorneys and clerks. You will need government workers that can function in a world environment.


I think it would pefect if 5 year child starts learning computer, at 10 years he gets job and at 12 year he is full working programmer or if he does not find job until he is 16 he will just starve to death, or will be working hard with miserable wage. I think seening many people die aroung will be not so bad motivation. of course that will not work in rich countries, where you can live with no arms, no legs and no brain.

I think there aren't even comments I can make about this quote.

Digix
2006-Jul-28, 11:48 PM
I don't see a solid education as a waste of money. I see only educating kids on the cool subjects as a waste. If children had never been exposed to history, would we have archeologists or paleobotonists? Without them how would we know where oil comes from? If you don't learn the history of your country and attempt to understand why it IS a 3rd world country, how can you ever expect to change it?

I dont understand why history must be boring, actualy it is very interesting subject, and sometimes you can laugh all dau from how ignorant people were.
WW1 is one of biggest comedies if you teach properly.

All subjects are cool is teached properly to those how have some determination to that area. but if you hate that sublect with all your heart you will not learn it.



When I was a kid i thought the coolest jobs were fireman and garbage man. I mean afterall, the garbageman got to stand on the outside of a truck while it was driving!




The point being how can you expect children with no experience in the real world to figure which jobs are crap jobs and which are the plum jobs? If nobody likes math so nobody decides to learn it, how does that help the country in the least? Is there any type of job that increases the economy of a country that doesn't include math? I can't think of any.

This will not happen, there are children who like math, but again it must be teached properly, for example we can direcly go to advanced stuff, without aritmetic, since we have computer. and later you can learn wintage ways to perform arithmetic in mathematic history lesson :)
It is easy to say which job is good, best is which gives most profit. Simple eceonomic. later if you earn enough you can reconsider if you like that job.



I hated math. but my understanding of math is far from zero. True, I can't work out some of the complex formulas that a professional scientist uses, but that doesn't mean my education is math poor. And besides, this isn't about me.


I agree that anything can be taught if the teacher knows how to make it engaging, but without a required curriculum, why would any child take that course to find out it can be fun?
first you must tell goals to child, and best is to start learning from wery complex stuff, chld will see that he dont know much and will learn missing stuff required for that goal. For example lets give child objective to design model helicopter. he will need to learn some math, some physisc, and plently of other stuff. he may also read some history about human atempts to fly and finaly he will learn all that mostly by himself.
later you can give another goal, which also requires lots of stuff to learn.
of course students will do that in groups.

of course we can expect child with zero education to choose its area of interest. but only very minimal and MOST INTERESTING knowledge should be given in all areas.


I disagree with this wholeheartedly. I know plenty about the early colonization period of American History, but I find this period to be just about the most boring subject to think about. I know it, not because I cared to learn it, but because it was needed. At the same time, I also have a lot better understanding of my country because of it.

I dont think it is very usefull if something happened in 1460 or 1320 year, all you need to know that something happened in the past.
and history just cant be boring if we renove all uninteresting stuff and exchange it with funny, interesting or scary stories.



So using this system every specialty would be lacking in personnel all the time because everybody would be sitting at the computer trying to figure out what they don't know. And why would anybody ever choose a specialty unless they were exposed to the merits of that job to begin with? Do you just ask the kids what profession they want and them advise them on the classes needed? "raise your hand if you want to be a machinest" or "stand up if you want to be a civil engineer". What kid is going to know what those are?

Why they shoudl care what they dont know? If they can't do the job they read manual until they know how to do that. and in same time they test new knowledge in practice. that is super fast learning type.

for example you want to be doctor, so read some basic online book, and start working with simple cases, if you find somenthing unknown consult colegues, or learn more. I dont think that with 80% of death rate in africa it will be big deal if you accidently kill some patients without your help they would die anyway. withhin one year you will be perfect doctor.


how would you define useless? Almost all types of job help build a society. If there is a market for the job somebody wants to due, why not give him the tools needed to be succesful?
yes society needs all kinds of jobs, good ones are only creative jobs when you perform very complex research tasks. I think best jobs are when you dont know how to do it.
of course if you are unable to do that you will be stuck to bus driver, toilet cleaning, or shopper, or prostitute at worst.


Ok so you have your worker-bees that actually put together or program the needed items. Who designs what they make? Where does the money come from? Americans? Europeans? Are we going to send computers to Africa in the hopes we can then use those narrowly educated drones to do our manufacturing for us? Or is the intention, rather, to make them self sufficient? If you want the country to begin to thrive on its own you will need businessmen and women, you will need accountants, you will need attorneys and clerks. You will need government workers that can function in a world environment.
for start they dont have neither money neither education, so being hi-tech drones is not so bad, as I know that is India model. Programming is job which requires less invetment and nearly zero initial money to start. you cant expect them start building advanced silicon chip factories from nowhere, also it should be easy for programmer to learn any other tecnical job anyway.

maibe you know other very fast way to rise economic within few years.
I dont talk that such methods must remain forever, but this is fastest way to rise economic.: remove all safety. remove all social care, make shortest education time. and enjoy economic rise in cosmic rate.



I think there aren't even comments I can make about this quote.
well in these countires everything is mater of life and death. You can buy childs for your science experiments for few dollars each from their own mother. So everything is different there.

I expect that mother instead of selling her chilld give some education. Parents will choose future professions, with hope to get best profit.

hewhocaves
2006-Jul-29, 02:17 AM
My impression is not that they can't afford food, but that there's no food available for them to afford - frequently due to mismanagement by their own country's government. If it were that easy to fix, I think it would be.

the cynic in me says that if they can't (read: won't ) get food to the starving masses, what makes anyone thing that laptops will make it there?

Digix
2006-Jul-29, 02:32 AM
the cynic in me says that if they can't (read: won't ) get food to the starving masses, what makes anyone thing that laptops will make it there?
right without food it will not work. they will not have any energy to crank laptop generator. :D
also they need internet inftastructure, or that computer will be useless

anyway this will not happen in very near future, but soliution is relatively simple use genetic modified seeds. not as tasty as natural, but nutritional value is good.

compton
2006-Jul-29, 02:57 AM
From what I understand about this computer project is that it has a primary aim of preventing the technology gap widening between 1st & 3rd World (or whatever you want to call them).

The idea is that giving kids the computers will empower these countries and enable them to become producers of their own software solutions, rather than consumers of the West's.

I think it's a great idea, and while the results are unlikely to be what is anticipated, it will only be good in the end. Imagine a whole generation of kids who can use Linux as second nature. It has got M$ worried enough to look into a similiar scheme of its own.

BTW a video of the first prototype is available here: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=298205659497849822

Incidentally I remember reading that MIT wanted to use that paper LCD stuff initially, due to the low power consumption, I don't know if that's still the case.

Digix
2006-Jul-29, 03:09 AM
Anyway , how do they solve lcd problem?

that is the most expensive part. everything rest is very cheap.
I cant find any suitable LCD displays at cost lower than 100$ for my embeded projects.

compton
2006-Jul-29, 03:28 AM
I don't know the ins and outs of it. From an article in the Register, I found this:

The HDL that Negroponte posits would bypass three expensive components of conventional laptops - Microsoft Windows, a traditional flat panel screen, and a hard drive. Instead it will be loaded with Linux and other open source software; its display will use either a rear projection screen or a type of electronic ink invented at the MIT Media Lab; and it will store one gigabyte of files in flash memory.

Ronald Brak
2006-Jul-29, 03:49 AM
My impression is not that they can't afford food, but that there's no food available for them to afford - frequently due to mismanagement by their own country's government. If it were that easy to fix, I think it would be.

Once people have U.S. curency in their hands, food will come as people can make money suplying it, even if it is through the black market. Look at how much difficulty even a powerful goverment such as the one in the United States has with stopping drugs entering the country. The hard part would be getting the ten cent's a day into the hands of hungry people and the hands of the mothers of hungry children. One cude method would be to throw money out of helicopters in areas where people suffer from hunger. Now this would be a very inefficent way to prevent hunger, there are cheaper methods available, however my contention is that you can stop most hunger by throwing money at it.

compton
2006-Jul-29, 03:57 AM
my contention is that you can stop most hunger by throwing money at it.

that's as may be, but for how long? What do they eat once they've spent the 10 cents?

Ronald Brak
2006-Jul-29, 04:13 AM
that's as may be, but for how long? What do they eat once they've spent the 10 cents?

No, ten cents a day, everyday. Until maybe they work their way out of their poverty on their own. Now I can understand you wanting to do something more practical than just throwing money at the problem, (personally I think that would be a good idea) but throwing money at the problem would work.

Tinaa
2006-Jul-29, 03:57 PM
Since this thread has veered off into politics, economics, and other stuff not related to General Science, it is time to close it.

ToSeek
2006-Aug-01, 04:24 PM
Four countries commit to buying 4 million Linux-powered OLPC laptops (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7131519895.html)


A spokesperson for the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) program revealed July 31 that the countries of Nigeria, Brazil, Argentina, and Thailand have each tendered commitments to purchase 1 million Linux laptops through the U.S.-based program.

If anyone wants to make relevant comments, PM me, and I'll consider re-opening the thread.

sarongsong
2006-Oct-12, 11:55 AM
'Ere we go:
The government of Libya has reached an agreement with an American nonprofit group to provide inexpensive laptop computers for all of the nation's 1.2 million schoolchildren...they will have wireless network access and run on an open-source operating system, such as Linux... PHYSORG.com (http://www.physorg.com/news79804988.html)

ToSeek
2006-Oct-12, 02:14 PM
Threads merged, moved to General Science.

Doodler
2006-Oct-12, 02:28 PM
I wonder how are they going to provide internet connection, surely the best way to use a computer educationally?

The first ones will probably be simple classroom networks for coordinated assignments. If they've got half a brain about this, they're probably using some form of stripped down bluetooth. Internet contact will probably be spotty at best, and likely something done via a community satellite uplink, or maybe through the phone system, if they happen to be in a minimally developed area.

[removed]

WaxRubiks
2006-Oct-12, 02:30 PM
I hope they sell them in the west to for people who want cheap internet access, this market could be profit making.

Doodler
2006-Oct-12, 03:02 PM
I hope they sell them in the west to for people who want cheap internet access, this market could be profit making.

Computers in the US which blow those out of the water are already under the $500 dollar mark. Modestly imposing investment, but not that brutal.

ToSeek
2006-Oct-12, 05:05 PM
How Do You Secure 100 Million Laptops? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2028789,00.asp)


If the plan is perfectly executed, Nicholas Negroponte's One Laptop Per Child project will deploy 100 million laptops in the first year. In one fell swoop, the nonprofit organization will create the largest computing monoculture in history.

Wary of the security risks associated with a computing monoculture—millions of machines with hardware and software of identical design—OLPC foundation officials are seeking help from the world's best hackers to review the full specifications of the $100 laptop's security model.

WaxRubiks
2006-Oct-12, 05:41 PM
Bill Gates and OLPC


Gates proposed an alternative to Nicholas Negroponte's vaunted $100 One Laptop Per Child program: cheap smartphones that could be used as computers. According to reports, both Gates and Microsoft CTO Craig J. Mundie talked up the idea of a specially designed smartphone that could be connected to a TV and keyboard, turning it into a full-fledged computer.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/30/gates-proposes-cellphones-as-alternative-to-olpc/

Doodler
2006-Oct-12, 06:05 PM
Some of their terminology brought up interesting imagery. Monoculture and the seamless mesh networking left an echo of "resistance is futile" about them.

The reason they'd be targeted is simple. End user ignorance.

If some spammer were to figure out a way to turn these things into zombie machines, the implications of these hundred million $100 handcranked beasties turning out spam emails with so much automation that the end user, a child in a technology depressed region who wouldn't know their USB port from a hole in the ground, won't have the first clue that something's even awry to begin with, is frightening.

They talk about evolving system, but these machines appear to be very rigidly designed. You crack one, you own the network, and you've rendered $10 billion dollars worth of charitable effort a waste.

Kelfazin
2006-Oct-12, 06:46 PM
Some of their terminology brought up interesting imagery. Monoculture and the seamless mesh networking left an echo of "resistance is futile" about them.

The reason they'd be targeted is simple. End user ignorance.

If some spammer were to figure out a way to turn these things into zombie machines, the implications of these hundred million $100 handcranked beasties turning out spam emails with so much automation that the end user, a child in a technology depressed region who wouldn't know their USB port from a hole in the ground, won't have the first clue that something's even awry to begin with, is frightening.

They talk about evolving system, but these machines appear to be very rigidly designed. You crack one, you own the network, and you've rendered $10 billion dollars worth of charitable effort a waste.

So other than turning them into a supergiant spambot, if somebody cracked the laptops and didn't intend to crash the entire network, why does the article says this is all so incredibly frightening. I don't understand. What am I missing? Is the scary part being that they could crash the whole system or is there something more sinister they could do?

Doodler
2006-Oct-12, 07:17 PM
So other than turning them into a supergiant spambot, if somebody cracked the laptops and didn't intend to crash the entire network, why does the article says this is all so incredibly frightening. I don't understand. What am I missing? Is the scary part being that they could crash the whole system or is there something more sinister they could do?

Basically, its possible to turn the entire effort into a massive spam distribution system. 10,000,000 computers all dilligently sending you messages for everything from viagra to cheap watches to Nigerian bank scams. It could go on for months without being stopped, and given that they're designed to link up automatically with every other laptop of its model in the area, they can turn right around and constantly reinfect the entire system once the communications protocols are compromised.

All it takes is the wrong person getting their hands on two or three, and enough time working with it to crack the networking language, and its all over. They'll be more of a pain to allow to be used than they're worth. Depending on how abusive the cracker decides to be, they could, out of pure spite, render them unusable by overrunning the system with junk.

publiusr
2006-Oct-13, 09:49 PM
Here we go again. This is on the same level as "why go into space, spend the money on food." One does not have anything to do with the other. Nor will throwing money at the problem solve world hunger.


Amen. We have to be more than walking stomachs--and we can't all be farmers.

I wonder if that $100 laptop will be available here--or maybe as a simple intenet appliance. I have seen these 200 buck internet only devices--and they will also befuddle many seniors.

They want something with a kids photo button, that opens up with two or three built in cords. One for cable, one for the phone jack and one plug. Open and turn on. A little different than a laptop with more function keys.

I wish they had something like that for 100 bucks. Simple.

Kesh
2006-Oct-15, 04:44 PM
There was some talk that they may make a version of the OLPC available to consumers in the $200-300 USD range.

ToSeek
2007-Apr-29, 02:15 AM
OLPC raises hundred-dollar laptop price to $175 (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&newsID=17870)


The One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) group said Thursday that it had raised the price for its hundred-dollar laptop to $175, but remains confident it will collect enough orders to begin volume production by September.

OLPC now has orders for 2.5 million units, but needs to reach 3 million units by 30 May in order to give its suppliers enough lead time to fill the pipeline with parts, said OLPC founder Nicholas Negroponte in a meeting with analysts on Thursday.

Doodler
2007-Apr-29, 02:23 AM
Still pretty impressive.

ToSeek
2007-Sep-14, 08:48 PM
Famed '$100 Laptop' Now $188 (http://www.physorg.com/news109002567.html)


Leaders of the nonprofit One Laptop Per Child that was spun out of MIT acknowledged Friday that the devices are now slated to cost $188 when mass production begins this fall. The last price the nonprofit announced was $176; it described $100 as a long-term goal.

Spokesman George Snell blamed the increase on a variety of factors, including currency fluctuations and rising costs of such components as nickel and silicon. He said the project was committed to keeping the price from rising above $190.

novaderrik
2007-Sep-15, 07:41 AM
how many of these laptops that are going to be given away for free will end up getting stripped down to their component metals and sold for scrap to put a meal on someone's table?
there's probably a few bucks in precious metals hidden in there...

Doodler
2007-Sep-19, 03:50 AM
how many of these laptops that are going to be given away for free will end up getting stripped down to their component metals and sold for scrap to put a meal on someone's table?
there's probably a few bucks in precious metals hidden in there...

Inevitably, some. Is it worth doing because of those that will be used right? Yup. I might have some concerns about them, but thinking a bit more rationally on it, its worth it.

HenrikOlsen
2007-Sep-19, 02:37 PM
The discussion about giving food or computers is basically the classic one about giving a man a fish or teaching him to fish.
Donating food can never be a permanent solution whereas doing something for education may, by giving people the knowledge needed to earn the money to buy it.

parejkoj
2007-Sep-20, 07:57 PM
I didn't recall seeing a link to the actual webpage for the project listed anywhere:

http://laptop.org/

Personally, I think it is a very good idea, and I hope it has a lot of success. And I agree, that in the US we could certainly stand to purchase some of these for our own schools.

mr obvious
2007-Sep-25, 02:30 AM
Apologies if posted in another thread, but I don't visit all the sections. Link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6994957.stm

Interesting that they are admitting that it's gotten off to a slow start. The new twist is sponsorship for the ability to get one of these systems for yourself. I am unsure whether this will be a success, but at least they are trying new things.

novaderrik
2007-Sep-25, 02:37 AM
they want us rich Americans to spend $400 to get one, then one of them is donated in our name.

i saw something about it on the news tonight. they look like something you'd buy at WalMart with Dora plastered all over it.

tbm
2007-Sep-25, 03:56 AM
How do you power a printer for it? Hamster wheel?

tbm

parejkoj
2007-Sep-25, 01:29 PM
I'm amazed at the amount of hate spewed at this machine. It isn't supposed to be a cutting edge number cruncher, nor is it for business presentations. It is designed to be durable, kid friendly, transparently networkable and easy to maintain. In fact, it is almost exactly the laptop I was looking for a year ago (I bought a 12" powerbook, which I love): a simple internet machine that I can write LaTeX and Python on.

From what I've read about trial runs with kids, it is very much a success with its target market. But I do agree that US schools could use them too.

The whole point OLPC is that to succeed in this modern world, you need to have some understanding of technology. Developing countries will continue to fall behind unless they get some internally supporting knowledge of computing. The goal of this project is to help provide that self-sustaining infrastructure.

NEOWatcher
2007-Sep-25, 02:05 PM
I'm amazed at the amount of hate spewed at this machine.
...
Developing countries will continue to fall behind unless they get some internally supporting knowledge of computing. The goal of this project is to help provide that self-sustaining infrastructure.
The hate is not the machine, but the application and intent.

There are a lot of people that don't like the idea of continuously giving to the third world. This machine was specifically marketed this way.

It might be a selfish thought, but with the dollar dropping, internal problems, jobs going oversees, immigration issues, and other political controversies...many people think that the effort should be (at least in part) concentrated on domestic issues.

I'm not endorsing an agreement or dis-agreement to the thought. But; you do have to admit that "Why would a bush tribe need a computer?" was one of the first things that people think.

parejkoj
2007-Sep-25, 02:57 PM
But; you do have to admit that "Why would a bush tribe need a computer?" was one of the first things that people think.

Fine, but that just means either they did a poor job marketing it to the developed world, or most people didn't bother trying to understand their goals. It isn't really meant for bush tribes, it is meant for those who already have their basic needs met and who are above the level of "dirt poor," if you will.

NEOWatcher
2007-Sep-25, 03:14 PM
Fine, but that just means either they did a poor job marketing it to the developed world...
I'm not quite sure about that phrase, and I may be just stuck on the word "marketing". But; why market to the developed world.
(Maybe, you mean explaining?)

...or most people didn't bother trying to understand their goals...
Bingo... and the media doesn't help in the way they provide snippets of the entire idea.

It isn't really meant for bush tribes, it is meant for those who already have their basic needs met and who are above the level of "dirt poor," if you will.
After reading things like "The $100 laptop has the potential to transform education in the world's poorest countries." and combining that with the fact that it has a crank rather than a battery... it translates to "bush" because you start thinking that it is for people that don't even have electricity.

And; there may also be the ones who think that we are training those poor Nigerians who have no other means of income than to create scams on the computers.

Doodler
2007-Sep-25, 03:30 PM
The hand crank is one version, I believe they're now also solar powered.

As far as Teaching a Man to Phish...well, its at least an incompatable software with the rest of the world. The idea here is to elevate a culture, not just the cynical few that exploit it for personal gain, and the best way to do it is on an enclosed network isolated from the primary global network.

parejkoj
2007-Sep-25, 04:26 PM
Also, it has a battery. The crank or solar panels are to charge the battery. Expected battery life is several hours, I believe.

Rue
2007-Sep-26, 03:40 AM
Interesting how some are terrified of little African school kids with computers.

Doodler
2007-Sep-26, 11:28 AM
Interesting how some are terrified of little African school kids with computers.

Personally I'm less concerned about the kids than I am the adults they live around.

sarongsong
2007-Nov-26, 11:51 AM
Give one.
Get one.
Now extended through December 31...
laptopgiving.org (http://laptopgiving.org/en/index.php)Specs (http://www.laptop.org/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml)
Nicholas Negroponte on C-SPAN this morning said T-Mobile is providing one year of free wi-fi service to purchasers.

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-26, 01:47 PM
Different operating systems on different computers have different start-up "music". I wonder if the handcranked laptops will play "Lady of Spain" while being cranked up? :think:

NEOWatcher
2007-Nov-26, 05:38 PM
Different operating systems on different computers have different start-up "music". I wonder if the handcranked laptops will play "Lady of Spain" while being cranked up? :think:
I would go for "pop goes the weasel". :D

sarongsong
2007-Nov-26, 06:55 PM
...U2's The Edge has created a custom start-up sound for the revolutionary XO children's laptop. The sound welcomes children to the laptop's opening animation. The Edge said, "I'm delighted to support One Laptop Per Child, and its amazing aim to use this technology to help children all over the world."...
Applelinks (http://www.applelinks.com/index.php/more/the_holiday_season_starts_with_giving_one_laptop/):)

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-27, 01:35 AM
Very nice! If any of those African kids are interested in space, they are welcome on BAUT!

Noclevername
2007-Nov-27, 02:12 AM
Very nice! If any of those African kids are interested in space, they are welcome on BAUT!

"I'm going online, start pedaling the satellite dish!"

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-27, 04:56 AM
Very nice! If any of those African kids are interested in space, they are welcome on BAUT!"I'm going online, start pedaling the satellite dish!"
We may laugh, but if that's what it takes, more power to them. I wonder if we will see some users of OLPCs soon? :think:

And please, no Nigerian 419 scam jokes. :naughty:

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-27, 08:35 PM
We may laugh, but if that's what it takes, more power to them. I wonder if we will see some users of OLPCs soon?
I agree, Celestial Mechanic. Science is for everyone. I believe the correct expression for introductions would be "Jambo!"

Doodler
2007-Nov-27, 09:28 PM
And please, no Nigerian 419 scam jokes. :naughty:

Ah yes, the next wave of illegal child labor. Hundreds of starving kids on rigged exercise bikes powering a scammer's blade rack...

sarongsong
2007-Nov-28, 09:21 PM
"Oh, no, Mr. Bill!"...
November 24, 2007
How a Computer for the Poor Got Stomped by Tech Giants
...For-profit companies threatened by the projected $100 price tag set off at a sprint to develop their own dirt-cheap machines, plunging Mr. Negroponte into unexpected competition against well-known brands such as Intel Corp. and Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system...This year, Mr. Gates announced in China that Microsoft would offer developing countries a $3 software package that includes Windows, a student version of Microsoft Office and educational programs....
Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119586754115002717.html?mod=aol_wsj_hs&ru=aol)

publiusr
2007-Dec-07, 09:30 PM
Bill Gates and OLPC



http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/30/gates-proposes-cellphones-as-alternative-to-olpc/

They have to have a duffer proof system if they want to sell internet appliances to old geezers like me.

Some cheap computers need wires and all kinds of hook ups.

Here is the computer I would sell. It would be a laptop with two long cords. One hooks up to a wall outlet, the other to cable (dial up cord included).

It has a read only CD dive, free internet for a year, and used prepaid phone cards you can slide in.

Turn it on, and it automatically goes to a pre-arrainged e-mail account at hotmail, and the account number is on a business card/key kept in a wallet along with a 1-800-number. As soon as you turn it on--it is at the e-mail account. It would be like the jitterbug cell phone for older adults who don't like to fool with manuals, bending over and trying to play with wires on the floor.

Set up in seconds.

Price? $100 or less.

And yes it has to have built in long cords!

I call it the Duffer-comp #1.

Rotary phone included.

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Dec-07, 09:56 PM
Just a word to Mr. Negroponte:

The OLPC ain't done 'til Windows don't run!

Again, note my sig below. :)

cjl
2007-Dec-08, 08:53 AM
:rolleyes:

And the windows bashing continues

Tuckerfan
2007-Dec-08, 10:16 AM
Just a word to Mr. Negroponte:

The OLPC ain't done 'til Windows don't run!

Again, note my sig below. :)
From your lips to God's ear. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7130637.stm)

Microsoft is to begin field tests of Windows XP working on the so-called $100 laptop, or XO, early in 2008.

It has not committed to offering XP on the XO laptop but hopes to release the operating system in the first half of 2008 if the trials succeed.

The work, undertaken as part of the firm's plans to widen access to technology, forms part of a project to run Windows on flash-based machines.
Kids get some valuable skills from the OLPC. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7115348.stm)
Some of the children have learnt how to fix broken keyboards and remove the screens and batteries. They act as engineers for the whole of the school - fixing friends laptops as and when needs arise. But software and infrastructure problems may be more tricky.Mechanical aptitude is always valuable, IME.

Leo Laporte squeals with delight when trying out some of the software that's installed on the OLPC. (http://twit.tv/floss21)

The word used to describe everybody's reaction to the OLPC despie it's flaws is: Nerdgasm. (http://twit.tv/124) Laporte's guests give a good rundown of the features and problems with the OLPC.

They really should allow anyone who wants one to buy one, as that would be a great laptop to carry on trips where you want/need a PC but have to worry that something might happen to it. One of Leo's regulars goes to the MIT fleamarkets and buys all the NEC Mobilepro's he can find (for about $10!) as it's perfect for fieldwork, runs normal Windows (or Linux) programs and if something happens to it, he's not lost a $1K laptop.

Kaptain K
2007-Dec-08, 03:11 PM
:rolleyes:

And the windows bashing continues
Justifiably IMO! :mad:

sarongsong
2007-Dec-08, 06:55 PM
Where's the Gates Foundation (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/MediaCenter/) when you need'em?
The Seattle-based foundation was established in 2000 and is led by CEO Patty Stonesifer and co-chairs William H. Gates Sr., Bill Gates, and Melinda French Gates. The foundation has an endowment of approximately $33 billion as of December 31, 2006...

KaiYeves
2007-Dec-08, 10:13 PM
Microsoft is over if you want it.
Isn't that "war"?

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Dec-09, 04:59 AM
Microsoft is to begin field tests of Windows XP working on the so-called $100 laptop, or XO, early in 2008.

It has not committed to offering XP on the XO laptop but hopes to release the operating system in the first half of 2008 if the trials succeed.
What, they're not going to try and squeeze some bowdlerized version of Vista onto these machines? They could market it as Vista for Third World Machines. No, wait, they'd have three versions: Vista for Third World Machines Hovel Edition, Vista for Third World Machines Pro, and of course, Vista for Third World Machines Multimedia Edition. And none of these would work if they couldn't contact Redmond and prove that they weren't pirated. :shifty:


Isn't that "war"?
Congratulations! You figured out the source of my paraphrase. I think it might be easier to put Microsloth out of our misery than it would be to rid the world of war. So let's do the easier thing first and tackle the hard problems later.

cjl
2007-Dec-09, 11:35 AM
Justifiably IMO! :mad:

If you don't actually know that much about windows vista, and think that allows for justification...

Honestly (and this is the sentiment of many of my friends and I, who have all run vista on our school computers for months now), Vista has a couple of minor quirks right now (the biggest for me being Nvidia's terrible driver support, which is not Microsoft's fault), but overall Vista is a much better operating system than XP, provided your computer can run it well (not something terribly difficult for most new computers). It is not a terrible operating system, it is actually more secure than XP, and stabilitywise, I have had only a couple of bsod's, and each and every one has been my fault (tweaking it for performance, including overclocking). Other than these freezes which are clearly my fault, it has never once locked up or had a problem, and I have been tremendously happy with it as my primary and only computer for the past 7 months.

Kaptain K
2007-Dec-09, 04:08 PM
If you are happy with Vista, then I am happy for you. I wish I was. Maybe if it wasn't so bloated, you wouldn't feel the need to over clock your processor. I am not a computer geek and I don't think one should have to be one to (at least) use one. My sister doesn't know thing one about how a car works and doesn't need to in order to drive a car. She doesn't have to worry that turning left with the right turn signal on with the wipers on will make her car crash!

KaiYeves
2007-Dec-09, 10:05 PM
Congratulations! You figured out the source of my paraphrase. I think it might be easier to put Microsloth out of our misery than it would be to rid the world of war.
What can I say, it's one of my top ten Christmas songs! I use Microsoft stuff, but draw Apple computers in my comics because the logo is easier to draw.

cjl
2007-Dec-09, 10:19 PM
If you are happy with Vista, then I am happy for you. I wish I was. Maybe if it wasn't so bloated, you wouldn't feel the need to over clock your processor. I am not a computer geek and I don't think one should have to be one to (at least) use one. My sister doesn't know thing one about how a car works and doesn't need to in order to drive a car. She doesn't have to worry that turning left with the right turn signal on with the wipers on will make her car crash!

Overclocking has nothing to do with performance in vista. It has to do with a game called Crysis that is ridiculously demanding (and has beautiful 3d graphics), and I overclock my GPU more than my CPU. I also overclock for SolidWorks. Vista itself runs fine with no overclocking or anything, and it also runs quite stable. I don't see the validity of your car crash analogy when I have yet to find any bugs causing a crash in vista. I don't think you have to be a computer geek to use vista, and some of its features (especially the new search) are a massive leap forwards from XP, and this applies to computer geeks and non-geeks alike.

If you have any specific things that cause crashes or bugs, please tell me, as I would be interested to try them and see if there is any obvious fix.

NEOWatcher
2010-May-27, 04:44 PM
Deja Vu all over again;

Next up: One Tablet Per Child for $100 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37376315/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/)


Nicholas Negroponte, founder of One Laptop Per Child, is optimistic his organization will be able to keep the price under $100 in part because Marvell plans to market its tablets widely to schools and health care institutions.


"People are no longer asking 'Does this work?'" Negroponte said. "The one question I hear all the time is, how do I pay for it? How do the economics work?"