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Bill Thmpson
2003-Apr-21, 05:52 PM
I was thinking of posting this under the AGAINST THE MAINSTREAM, but it is not a theory or a rumor

http://www.msnbc.com/news/902224.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1869134.jpg

http://www.msnbc.com/news/902224.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1868998.jpg

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1869133.jpg
Burt Rutan talks with former astronaut Buzz Aldrin, right, as Max Faget, who designed most of NASA's early rockets, looks on at the Mojave Airport on Friday.

kilopi
2003-Apr-21, 05:57 PM
I was thinking of posting this under the AGAINST THE MAINSTREAM, but it is not a theory or a rumor.
Tuckerfan beat you to it: Burt Rutan's X-Prize Contender Unveiled! (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4793)

BigJim
2003-Apr-21, 09:37 PM
How did you get those pictures on your thread?

kilopi
2003-Apr-21, 09:39 PM
How did you get those pictures on your thread?
Just hit the quote button and take a look. He used the "img" BBcode.

tracer
2003-Apr-21, 10:22 PM
So, why is Rutan's plane covered in polka dots?

g99
2003-Apr-21, 10:29 PM
So, why is Rutan's plane covered in polka dots?

Camaflague?

sts60
2003-Apr-21, 10:45 PM
So, why is Rutan's plane covered in polka dots?
Seriously?


Windows.

Digital Apprentice
2003-Apr-21, 10:51 PM
So, why is Rutan's plane covered in polka dots?

Not sure, but hazarding a guess they've gone with circular viewports to reduce stress points in the composite skin that sharp corners would create. Looks kinda goofy, though.

Their website (http://scaled.com) is a bit of a mess that doesn't work properly, since you can't get at the contents of the "projects/tierone" directory. As a result I can't try to find out for sure.

D.

Sum0
2003-Apr-21, 11:02 PM
Reminds me of the odder jet planes designed by the Nazis towards the end of WW2, in particular the Heinkel He162...
http://www.danshistory.com/ww2/he162.jpg
Anyone else see a resembalence, or am I just crazy? :)

Colt
2003-Apr-22, 01:38 AM
Sum0, the Heinkel He162 doesn't really look like it.. But these do: Blohm und Voss P212 (http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp212.html), Blohm und Voss P215 (http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp215.html)

I noticed the resemblance right off as soon as I saw the image of the spaceplane.

I read a tiny article in Popular Science ( that or PM) from a couple of months ago about Rutan's "White Knight" plane and no one had any clue what it was for.. I wonder if he might be doing the same thing with the altitude which the Parasite Space Plane (PSP) can reach? -Colt

kilopi
2003-Apr-22, 02:07 AM
Hmmm... I think you're both focussing on specific aspects of the design, and seeing the similarity to that aspect. For instance, both links you furnish show single engine designs, whereas the Rutan is not. Your comment about Sum0's picture speaks for itself.

For my part, I noticed the resemblance to the Wright Flyer immediately. :)

Colt
2003-Apr-22, 06:02 AM
Hmmm... I think you're both focussing on specific aspects of the design, and seeing the similarity to that aspect. For instance, both links you furnish show single engine designs, whereas the Rutan is not. Your comment about Sum0's picture speaks for itself.

For my part, I noticed the resemblance to the Wright Flyer immediately. :)

Err... Could you please clarify what exactly you mean? I was just noting that there is a reason that designs look alike.. One that about 60 years old and a new one that looks alot like it. I can't remember what it is called right now, seperate evolution or something.

While I think that it will work, I would rather see it work before I place bets on it. Of course we can not rule out that others who are interested in space (the Chinese) might take a disliking to a private company making their own spaceplane and again, giving the Americans a lead in space. -Colt

kilopi
2003-Apr-22, 06:08 AM
HFor my part, I noticed the resemblance to the Wright Flyer immediately. :)
Err... Could you please clarify what exactly you mean?
That both have wings? :)

Argos
2003-Apr-22, 01:00 PM
It would be more appropriate calling it a suborbital plane. I donīt think it is a spaceship in any way. And that aerodynamics...why does it have to be so weird? It would be a success as an air model. Itīs cute.

Rue
2003-Apr-22, 05:27 PM
It would be more appropriate calling it a suborbital plane. I donīt think it is a spaceship in any way. And that aerodynamics...why does it have to be so weird? It would be a success as an air model. Itīs cute.

According to the rules of the X-prize it must carry at least one person, to minimum altitude of 100 km (62 miles). And do it again within 14 days.

x-prize.com

daver
2003-Apr-22, 06:46 PM
It would be more appropriate calling it a suborbital plane. I donīt think it is a spaceship in any way. And that aerodynamics...why does it have to be so weird? It would be a success as an air model. Itīs cute.

According to the rules of the X-prize it must carry at least one person, to minimum altitude of 100 km (62 miles). And do it again within 14 days.

x-prize.com

Three people.

One of the articles said that the tail booms of the reentry vehicle are pivoted; it reenters something like a shuttlecock.. After it slows (to subsonic?) the booms pivot back and it flies like a regular plane. The carrier plane and the reentry vehicle are designed to have similar flight characteristics--if you can fly one, you can fly the other.

Having pivoting flight surfaces might allow something more like a capsule for the main body, which is quite a bit more stable. I'd think they'd have to be pivoting and telescoping for a true orbiter, which might get pretty hairly mechanically.

It's also a Rutan design. They tend to be twin-tailed canards. The plane looks weird because he likes weird.

Reacher
2003-Apr-23, 01:30 AM
I personally like the twin tail design.

i like the plane itself, but not so much the space vehicle. it looks like my idea of a 747 embryo, and maybe i got that idea because its under the cool plane, like it was just born...

finally, a subject i know stuff about, and all i can say is "hmmm, Scott like!"

Colt
2003-Apr-23, 05:35 AM
Maybe Rutan wanted it to look different than the flying brick of NASA. -Colt

kilopi
2003-Apr-23, 09:17 AM
Maybe Rutan wanted it to look different than the flying brick of NASA. -Colt
I'm thinking he just wanted it to fly different.

BigJim
2003-Apr-23, 02:30 PM
Yes, Burt does like weird. Now don't get me wrong - he's a genius - but he is really into eccentric planes.

Pictures of Burt's planes:

http://www.ez.org/images/Hindle.jpg
http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/images/rutan_quicki.jpg
http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/images/rutan_voyager.JPG
http://www.daveswebshop.com/am07229.shtml

Charlie in Dayton
2003-Apr-24, 03:12 AM
I taped then transcribed the radio transmissions from Voyager as it made its way up the coast of Baja California. I sent my transcription in to get a card confirming my reception for some shortwave radio work I was doing.

I got the card all right...

with Dick and Jeana's REAL autographs on it...

...didn't hurt that I was a ham radio operator and they'd gotten their licenses for the trip...

Argos
2003-Apr-24, 01:34 PM
Yes, Burt does like weird. Now don't get me wrong - he's a genius - but he is really into eccentric planes.

(...)And the best one:


A pusher canard. Beautiful.

The "14-Bis", the plane which made the first self-sustained flight (the "Flyer" was catapulted), designed, built and piloted by the Brazilian Alberto Santos-Dumont (http://www.flight100.org/history/dumont.html), in France, October the 23rd, 1906, was also a "canard".

http://www.flight100.org/pix/dumont_pic4.jpg

sarongsong
2003-Jun-02, 02:00 PM
"...On June 7, Burt Rutan is expected to roll out the X PRIZE entry for a gathering at his birthday bash in Mojave, Calif. (bring sunscreen)...
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/

BigJim
2004-Oct-10, 02:48 AM
Interesting to read over 18 months later... different reactions to the concept now? :wink:

Doodler
2004-Oct-11, 08:23 PM
Some of the points are still valid, its a weird looking bird. It just happens to work as designed. :)

Van Rijn
2004-Oct-12, 05:05 AM
Well, if you are familiar with Rutan's designs, these two craft fit right in. Also, it reminds me of what a futuristic spacecraft was supposed to look like when I was young. When you see the Starship chase plane, the White Knight, and SpaceShipOne, and know this was all done privately, it's like deja vu - just the sort of thing that was supposed to exist in the 21st century.