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ToSeek
2006-Aug-11, 02:52 PM
NASA sets Ares test flight roadmap (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4697)


Details of the first two test flights for the next generation Ares launch vehicle are beginning to come to light.

The first Ascent Development Flight Test (currently referred to as ADFT-0) will be the first test of the new Crew Launch Vehicle (Ares I-1) and will not fly any earlier than September 2008.

A second flight is planned to validate the results, which will occur six months after.

publiusr
2006-Aug-17, 09:44 PM
I love it!
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/151420main_aresV_factsheet.pdf

Some rumblings on Stumpy--or perhaps...
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/magnum.htm

http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4654&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=91031#91031

Members only--a reason to join up.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3779&start=121
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3779&posts=229&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3801&posts=10&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?attachmentid=9729
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3413&posts=30&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3236&start=46
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3387&posts=1&start=1

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8335

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=512277&page=12&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

http://uplink.space.com/newreply.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=532089&page=3&view=collapsed&what=showflat&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=533285&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

MISC.
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4760&start=0 Bigelow
http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=IBAX72015 Atlant-Energiya
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/521702772X/104-7290734-5924725?n=283155
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4027&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=220 Buran

Space Vehicles: A History in Patents
http://www.dataviewbooks.com/sapcecover.jpg
http://www.dataviewbooks.com/space-a.jpg
http://www.dataviewbooks.com/space-b.jpg
http://www.dataviewbooks.com/space-c.jpg

Over 260 pages of spacecraft designs from US government patent documents.

Blob
2006-Aug-22, 07:46 PM
The name of the new Ares I (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/spacecraft/ares_naming.html) vehicle that NASA hopes fly to the moon will be announced on the 31st August. The space agency will also announce the contractor who will build the vehicle.

Unfortunately, the word on the street says that U.S. astronaut Jeff Williams, aboard the international space station, let it slip that the new vehicle's name is going to be `Orion`.

(Ed - or was it Onion?)

Eta C
2006-Aug-22, 08:01 PM
Fine name. My only objection is in Horowitz's description of "Ares" as a "pseudonym for Mars." Given that logic, from a Greek point of view, one could equally say that "Mars" is a pseudonym for Ares. Why not just come out and say that Ares is the Greek name for both the ancient war god and for the fourth planet from the sun.

publiusr
2006-Aug-24, 10:19 PM
They are going to launch a boilerplate version soon--
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3661&posts=162&start=1

Doodler
2006-Aug-25, 07:24 PM
The name of the new Ares I (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/spacecraft/ares_naming.html) vehicle that NASA hopes fly to the moon will be announced on the 31st August. The space agency will also announce the contractor who will build the vehicle.

Unfortunately, the word on the street says that U.S. astronaut Jeff Williams, aboard the international space station, let it slip that the new vehicle's name is going to be `Orion`.

(Ed - or was it Onion?)

They could paint the "Stick" green and call it "Spring Onion".

publiusr
2006-Aug-25, 08:19 PM
I still think it looks like the old German Hand Grenades.

Doodler
2006-Aug-25, 09:38 PM
I still think it looks like the old German Hand Grenades.

Just so long as it doesn't perform like one.

Grand_Lunar
2006-Aug-26, 12:30 AM
Just so long as it doesn't perform like one.

LOL!

I hope that too.

mugaliens
2006-Aug-27, 09:14 PM
I'd REALLY like to know what the thrust of the RS-68 engine is, if it's the upgraded version to that used by Apollo.

JeDi
2006-Aug-28, 12:07 AM
I'd REALLY like to know what the thrust of the RS-68 engine is,
Mark Wade is our friend in such cases, I found this (http://www.astronautix.com/engines/rs68.htm):

Thrust(vac): 3,312.000 kN (744,567 lbf)

if it's the upgraded version to that used by Apollo.
Apollo, actually the Saturns, used the J-2, from that (http://www.astronautix.com/engines/j2.htm):

Thrust(vac): 1,033.100 kN (232,250 lbf).
Thrust(sl): 486.200 kN (109,302 lbf).

publiusr
2006-Oct-05, 10:16 PM
The J-2 will be used for what it was made for. And not in that linear aerospike contraption.

From the Wade site just above

"Modestly improved J-2S was tested and provides basis for X-33 linear aerospike engine thirty years later."

Launch window
2007-Apr-26, 11:00 AM
The Stick will fail !

Says John Young (http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html)

Cugel
2007-Apr-26, 12:24 PM
Actually, I think he means that the Orion is too big, too heavy.

NEOWatcher
2007-Apr-26, 01:43 PM
The Stick will fail !

Says John Young (http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html)
Hearsay, from a blog, from a non-involved astronaut who just says "they say"
Who's they? What's May 23?
I'm not saying he's wrong or anything...I'm only saying that this is not exactly a reliable source.

Nicolas
2007-Apr-26, 01:59 PM
It's still in initial design. During design, your craft fails over and over again on paper. You keep changing it until it doesn't fail on paper (on computer, in practice :)). Then you start building (test craft versions of) the thing.

This process gets really nice when you've got a fast simulation program up and running during a meeting.

"and what if we try this?" click click ...... nope, the engine blew up.
"and this?" click click .... nope the engine blew up again.

This doesn't mean the craft will never work because its engine keeps blowing up. This means the craft is still being designed, and that there's still design work on the engine.

Now unless they've got something really new to add on "may 23", I read nothing more into it than the known overweight that still needs to be designed out.

NEOWatcher
2007-Apr-26, 02:12 PM
It's still in initial design. During design, your craft fails over and over again on paper.

But these are rocket engineers and should know better than to design a craft this badly. Don't they know what they are doing? A child can design it with trial and error like they are doing. :wall:

(anti-government, Nasa is bad, CT mode off)

Well put Nicolas.

publiusr
2007-Apr-30, 08:35 PM
John is a great guy--but he's not an LV designer.

More at http://www.nasaspaceflight.com

ToSeek
2007-May-11, 07:49 PM
Orion evolution - new version shows large-scale changes (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5097)


The latest version of the Orion spacecraft has been revealed in a series of new images obtained by NASASpaceFlight.com.

The Lockheed Martin Orion "606" is the newest version of the constantly evolving spacecraft that will transport NASA astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) - and eventually back to the moon. The Orion 606 includes major mass saving design changes to the Orion's Service Module.

Noclevername
2007-May-11, 11:15 PM
But these are rocket engineers and should know better than to design a craft this badly. Don't they know what they are doing? A child can design it with trial and error like they are doing.

It's a government agency. The engineers are not in charge and have little say about how things ultimately get done (cough*Challenger*cough), it's a heirarchy of status.

Fortunately, I'm pinning my hopes on private spaceflight (not that corporations don't play the same reindeer games, they just go out of business if they get too bloated. Unless they're government contractors with deep-rooted connections, in which case, bloat away.)

I realize this is skirting the edge of politics, but it's stuff that directly effects our space program so please be lenient on that score.:whistle:

Nicolas
2007-May-14, 08:41 AM
You do realize the remark you're quoting was extremely tongue in cheek, right. :)

NEOWatcher
2007-May-14, 02:39 PM
You do realize the remark you're quoting was extremely tongue in cheek, right. :)

Apparently, I didn't leave enough evidence of my sarcastic meaning. Let's see...
Smiley to indicate my disgust at the statement...check.
Statement to indicate that the statement was a ruse...check.
Follow up after mode shift to contradict statement...check.

Oh, well... it happens.

Grand_Lunar
2007-May-15, 11:51 AM
Orion evolution - new version shows large-scale changes (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5097)

Interesting changes they've made.

The images on the sight are rather small, though (even the "larger" ones! Can't make out details!).

Larry Jacks
2007-May-15, 01:36 PM
Yeah, those are some small pictures. I saved them and then used a viewer to enlarge them enough to read the text.

Nicolas
2007-May-15, 02:02 PM
If you sign up for the site (and pay), you have access to larger images.

Noclevername
2007-May-18, 09:40 PM
Apparently, I didn't leave enough evidence of my sarcastic meaning. Let's see...
Smiley to indicate my disgust at the statement...check.
Statement to indicate that the statement was a ruse...check.
Follow up after mode shift to contradict statement...check.

Oh, well... it happens.

Sorry, Asperger's (and I've also seen lots of people on this board use those very things when they were serious. It's confusing)

Launch window
2007-Nov-18, 10:48 AM
Boeing completes prototype heat shield for NASA's Orion spacecraft
http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/21904

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-18, 06:13 PM
Yeah! We're doing this!

Doodler
2007-Nov-20, 02:19 PM
Boeing completes prototype heat shield for NASA's Orion spacecraft
http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/21904

Cripes, that's a big shield. Sure as heck ain't daddy's capsule boat, this thing might be Apollo-ish, but its no sardine can.

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-20, 10:41 PM
Yes, I looked up the diameter for another thread a few days ago: The Ares shield is 16 1/2 feet in diamater (a little over 5 meters) and the Apollo CM was 12.8 feet (3.9 meters).

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 09:12 PM
Yeah! We're doing this!

Let's hope so.

Cugel
2007-Nov-22, 01:14 AM
Let's hope so.

Maybe not: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1244

Remember that this serious problem comes on top of the performance problems they already had. That means there is very little margin in the system to mitigate these thrust oscillation problems. The really strange thing about this is that thrust oscillation is a well known (at least to the experts, so not to me) feature of any big solid rocket. The designers of the Shuttle solved it by flying two of them in combination with a big tank filled with liquids that is used to dampen and dissipate the oscillation energy. That is not a solution for the in line Ares-I stack. So have the Ares-I designers forgotten this lesson from the past?

(There is a lot of information about this on NSF)

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-22, 04:21 PM
Let's hope so.
Do you always have to be so negative?

Cugel
2007-Nov-22, 09:16 PM
Do you always have to be so negative?

Which you do you mean? Me or Noclevername?

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-23, 01:23 AM
Which you do you mean? Me or Noclevername?
Noclevername. Although I consider him a friend all the same.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-23, 01:32 AM
Noclevername. Although I consider him a friend all the same.

Thank you. And yes, I do. ;)

PraedSt
2008-Nov-15, 03:58 PM
Small Ares update.

J-2X engine completes design review (http://www.physorg.com/news145881785.html). Next up, manufacturing and testing.

The J-2X engine, developed for NASA by Pratt and Whitney Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, Calif., is the first element of NASA's Constellation Program to pass this design milestone. The engine will power the upper stage of NASA's next-generation Ares I rocket and the Earth departure stage of the Ares V heavy cargo launch vehicle.
The J-2X on Astronautix. Link (http://www.astronautix.com/engines/j2x.htm).

KaiYeves
2008-Nov-16, 01:22 AM
Woo-hoo!

John Sullivan
2008-Nov-29, 04:53 AM
Shortly after this Endeavour mission launched, a mock-up of the new Command Capsule as weights and center of mass can be predicted was fired on a 15-g trip under the Escape Tower. While 15 g's is a LOT of inertia - enough to make a lot of hearts stop and a lot of bones break, that's what is determined is needed to survive a catastrophic Challenger-like disaster in progress. Think about that! Under those circumstances, a 15-g joyride just might be exactly what the doctor ordered. The power of the Escape Tower surprised even the program designers.

Safety and size are the important changes from the Shuttle. True, quarters are a little cramped with none of the sleeping accomodations in the Mid-deck of today's Shuttle, so I suppose a trip on the new vehicle can best be likened to trying to sleep on a packed airliner for a long trip. It's all a tradeoff to get to the Moon, and like the Apollo program, components all have to work as one and so as some don't make the grade the program will be delayed until the demands of the program are tweaked.

The comparisons to the Apollo/Saturn V are inevitable, but in fact the technologies are logical improvements to the latest tricks of the trade learned from the Shuttle. Yes, there will be boosters, but they will be far back on the stack. Yes, there will be falling pieces of orange foam from the H2/O2 tanks, but the won't fall on any parts with men and women aboard. The height of either version of the launch vehicles is double the height of the Shuttle stack, so a much higher gantry and tower must be built. In this regard, it seems, they are most closely copying the Apollo 5 launch gantry. But the Saturn V used HEAVY Kerosene which offset the benefits of the powerful Stage 1 engines. This program uses boosters which have a lot more Stage 1 thrust. Yet some aspects of planning are so liquid and flexible that the precise landing options (on Earth) are still up in the air. This won't be just a dozen or so flights, like what happened through Apollo. This will be more like the hundreds of Shuttle flights in time, with even many believing that by replacing the heat shield, even the command modules can be resued and flown over and over again. This isn't just going to the high mountain of the moon and then returning. This is like setting up base camp as humans already have in Alaska or Antarctica. Some believe there's no point in living there, either. But people who do obviously disagree, so I'm sure a few good astronauts can be found who wouldn't mind living on the moon for a while. The International Space Station was a great starting point as we develop the techniques in living away from Earth for an extended period of time. While this will be useful in getting conditioned to life on the moon, both the station and life on the moon will be useful in taking us successfully to Mars - and back. It's going to happen in our lifetimes!

This will be a great program, and it starts as soon as ground breaks on Launch Pad 39B any day now. I can't wait.

mugaliens
2008-Nov-29, 02:57 PM
Welcome aboard, John!

Now - down to business...


Shortly after this Endeavour mission launched, a mock-up of the new Command Capsule as weights and center of mass can be predicted was fired on a 15-g trip under the Escape Tower. While 15 g's is a LOT of inertia

It's a lot of acceleration for a human. But grains of sand hitting your windshield at 60 mph undergo 1,000's of Gs, but hardly any inertia at all - you might hear them, but you certainly don't feel them.


- enough to make a lot of hearts stop and a lot of bones break,

No. Anyone who's played football experiences 20 Gs and more without their hearts stopping or their bones breaking.


...that's what is determined is needed to survive a catastrophic Challenger-like disaster in progress. Think about that! Under those circumstances, a 15-g joyride just might be exactly what the doctor ordered. The power of the Escape Tower surprised even the program designers.

I don't know why they'd be surprised. Apollo's Launch Escape System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_spacecraft#Launch_Escape_System_.28LES.29)( LES) had a thrust of 155,000 lbs, which, for the 12,800 lb Command Module (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_spacecraft#Command_Module_.28CM.29)resulted in an acceleration of 12 G's. 15 G's is a bit more, yes, but not substantially. If that's what's required to clear a malfunctioning boost assembley, so be it.


While this will be useful in getting conditioned to life on the moon, both the station and life on the moon will be useful in taking us successfully to Mars - and back. It's going to happen in our lifetimes!

Well, maybe. They're saying 2037 for a Martian landing. Five years ago they were saying 2023. I suspect that by 2037, they'll be saying 2060, at which I'll be nearly 100.


This will be a great program, and it starts as soon as ground breaks on Launch Pad 39B any day now. I can't wait.

I cannot, and will not deny you your enthusiasm! I remember mine during the days of Apollo - the times were like magic, man was leaving our Planet for the first time!

matthewota
2008-Nov-29, 07:50 PM
I look forward to the Constellation Program. It is about time we quit going around in circles.

publiusr
2009-Jan-13, 01:01 AM
Griffin looks to be on the way out. Thus the rush to get the Ares I boilerplate flying this year--but only at the cost of having one shuttle pad available for Hubble servicing.

Swift
2009-Apr-08, 09:03 PM
From R&D Magazine (http://www.rdmag.com/ShowPR.aspx?PUBCODE=014&ACCT=1400000101&ISSUE=0904&RELTYPE=IDN&PRODCODE=00000000&PRODLETT=TD&CommonCount=0)

NASA has chosen the material for a heat shield that will protect a new generation of space explorers when they return from the moon. After extensive study, NASA has selected the Avcoat ablator system for the Orion crew module.

...

To protect the spacecraft and its crew from such severe conditions, the Orion Project Office at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston identified a team to develop the thermal protection system, or TPS, heat shield. For more than three years, NASA's Orion Thermal Protection System Advanced Development Project considered eight different candidate materials, including the two final candidates, Avcoat and Phenolic Impregnated Carbon Ablator, or PICA, both of which have proven successful in previous space missions.

Avcoat was used for the Apollo capsule heat shield and on select regions of the space shuttle orbiter in its earliest flights. It was put back into production for the study. It is made of silica fibers with an epoxy-novalic resin filled in a fiberglass-phenolic honeycomb and is manufactured directly onto the heat shield substructure and attached as a unit to the crew module during spacecraft assembly.

...

"The biggest challenge with Avcoat has been reviving the technology to manufacture the material such that its performance is similar to what was demonstrated during the Apollo missions," said John Kowal, Orion's thermal protection system manager at Johnson. "Once that had been accomplished, the system evaluations clearly indicated that Avcoat was the preferred system."