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Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-10, 08:16 PM
Is the dark matter that matter which is "dead"?
Is the dark matter that matter which is in a foetal stage?
Is the dark energy that energy which is in a death state?
Is the dark energy that energy which is in a foetal stage?

I have no evidence.

Fortis
2006-Sep-10, 10:29 PM
Is the dark matter that matter which is "dead"?
Is the dark matter that matter which is in a foetal stage?
Is the dark energy that energy which is in a death state?
Is the dark energy that energy which is in a foetal stage?

I have no evidence.
Not sure what you mean by your terminology, but currently we haven't a firm grasp on exactly what either "dark matter" or "dark energy" is. We have some general properties, but remain fairly "in the dark". ;)

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-11, 02:24 AM
Not sure what you mean by your terminology, but currently we haven't a firm grasp on exactly what either "dark matter" or "dark energy" is. We have some general properties, but remain fairly "in the dark". ;)

Hello Fortis,
I'm inclined to consider that there is "a life cycle" for each one of them.

neilzero
2006-Sep-11, 03:25 AM
Hi Attiyah: Some dark matter is essentially invisable as it is very cold and the ambient "light" level produces negligible reflection for our presently available instruments. Usually an astronomer is thinking something strange, exodic and unknown when they say "dark matter" or "dark energy" Neil

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-11, 04:25 AM
Hi Attiyah: Some dark matter is essentially invisable as it is very cold and the ambient "light" level produces negligible reflection for our presently available instruments. Usually an astronomer is thinking something strange, exodic and unknown when they say "dark matter" or "dark energy" Neil
Can you give me thel accepted definition of "the dark matter"?


Can you give me the accepted definition of "the dark energy"?

You say:"Some dark matter is essentially invisable as it is very cold and the ambient "light" level produces negligible reflection for our presently available instruments.", so, what about the rest?

Believe me that "YOURS" presently available instruments cannot deal with the dark matter because it is either "dead" or still a foetus.

Morover, your same statement:"Some dark matter is essentially invisable as it is very cold and the ambient "light" level produces negligible reflection for our presently available instruments" drives me to consider that the dark matter is, at least, in a hibernation because the ambient "heat" level is so low such that it is "very cold".

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-11, 06:35 AM
I suggest to divide the matter into:
1- Alive matter.
2- Dead matter.
3- Foetal matter.

Van Rijn
2006-Sep-11, 06:54 AM
I suggest to divide the matter into:
1- Alive matter.
2- Dead matter.
3- Foetal matter.

Perhaps you have some other definition of "alive," "dead" and "foetal" than I do. In my terminology, animals and plants can be alive, they can procreate, and they can die. A chunk of rock, a bit of air or water, once you remove the bacteria and other such, is neither alive or dead. Neither term applies to it. It is non-living.

Now, if you have some proposal for living matter, then that would belong in the ATM section, remembering of course that you would be expected to provide evidence.

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-11, 07:36 AM
Perhaps you have some other definition of "alive," "dead" and "foetal" than I do. In my terminology, animals and plants can be alive, they can procreate, and they can die. A chunk of rock, a bit of air or water, once you remove the bacteria and other such, is neither alive or dead. Neither term applies to it. It is non-living.

Now, if you have some proposal for living matter, then that would belong in the ATM section, remembering of course that you would be expected to provide evidence.

I am not talking about the living organsims and their living material "protoplasm".

My definitions:
(1) The alive matter is the normal matter that exists in the "space-time" dimension.
(2) The dead matter is that dark matter which departed from the space-time dimension and directing away from it.
(3) The foetal matter is that dark matter which is directing to enter the space-time dimension.

captain swoop
2006-Sep-11, 08:53 AM
This looks like an ATM idea dressed up as a question.

RussT
2006-Sep-11, 09:11 AM
I am not talking about the living organsims and their living material "protoplasm".

My definitions:
(1) The alive matter is the normal matter that exists in the "space-time" dimension.
(2) The dead matter is that dark matter which departed from the space-time dimension and directing away from it.
(3) The foetal matter is that dark matter which is directing to enter the space-time dimension.

How did you arrive at these definitions?

Nereid
2006-Sep-11, 11:57 AM
I am not talking about the living organsims and their living material "protoplasm".

My definitions:
(1) The alive matter is the normal matter that exists in the "space-time" dimension.
(2) The dead matter is that dark matter which departed from the space-time dimension and directing away from it.
(3) The foetal matter is that dark matter which is directing to enter the space-time dimension.With this definition, dark matter is most certainly "alive".

Why? Because "exists in the "space-time"" simply means "exists in the universe", and dark matter most certainly is a part of the universe.

As to dark energy, well, perhaps you could give your definitions of "alive/dead/foetal" energy?

Of course, these definitions are not, AFAIK, part of any working scientists toolkit ...

DyerWolf
2006-Sep-11, 02:23 PM
Folks - not that I object to his doing so, but reply posters should be aware that AZ seems to be trying to tie modern astronomical and physics theories to Qurannic predictions (See example below***...) or some similar ATM cosmology.

I think that much of the frustration others have expressed in exchanges in AZ's other posts come from a fundamental misunderstanding between what AZ would like the data (and answers) to say and what most posters are trying to communicate.

This should probably be in the ATM section...


***
"Expansion of the Universe
h


"And the universe, we constructed with power and skill and verily we are expanding it." (51:47)

What struck me though, was the remarkable similarities between the basic Islamic concept of Jinn and this Dark Matter Universe

Summary:
h


1 They live in the Unseen World.

2 They can move very fast...

3. They were created before mankind...

4. Their existence is predicted in the "big bang" theory and

5. Their presence ultimately is required for the end of the universe, etc... "


http://www.victorynewsmagazine.com/TheJinnandTheDarkShadowMatterUniverseTheory.htm

RussT
2006-Sep-12, 12:46 AM
DyerWolf
Member ;

Which is why I asked this question, because that is where I figured he was headed also.

[How did you arrive at these definitions?]

However, defintions 2 & 3 do not seem to be heading toward the Big Crunch (I could be wrong here), so I was wondering how he came to these.

He appears to be willing to answer questions properly in other threads and hopefully, he will do the same here.

So, let me be a little more specific.

AZ,
1. How does the 'alive matter' get here?
2. [The dead matter is that dark matter which departed from the space-time dimension and directing away from it.]...How does this dead matter 'die' and what directs it away and where does it get direct to???
3 [The foetal matter is that dark matter which is directing to enter the space-time dimension.]...What is foetal (I am assuming you mean 'new' dark matter), and HOW is it directed here, "to enter (our)/the space-time dimension"???

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-12, 02:07 AM
Folks - not that I object to his doing so, but reply posters should be aware that AZ seems to be trying to tie modern astronomical and physics theories to Qurannic predictions (See example below***...) or some similar ATM cosmology.

I think that much of the frustration others have expressed in exchanges in AZ's other posts come from a fundamental misunderstanding between what AZ would like the data (and answers) to say and what most posters are trying to communicate.

This should probably be in the ATM section...


***
"Expansion of the Universe
h


"And the universe, we constructed with power and skill and verily we are expanding it." (51:47)

What struck me though, was the remarkable similarities between the basic Islamic concept of Jinn and this Dark Matter Universe

Summary:
h


1 They live in the Unseen World.

2 They can move very fast...

3. They were created before mankind...

4. Their existence is predicted in the "big bang" theory and

5. Their presence ultimately is required for the end of the universe, etc... "


http://www.victorynewsmagazine.com/TheJinnandTheDarkShadowMatterUniverseTheory.htm

Hello Dyerwolf,
It seems clear that you are concerned with Islamic studies.
In this post I want to give you only some notices. Your questions, Nereid's, Russt's and others' are really excellent. I have the answers but postpone posting them.

Notices:
1- As a Muslim, Attiyah Zahdeh has Islamic beliefs. He is not a secular man as one of BAUT's members thought.
2- AZ has his own TAFSIR (interpretation, expounding, exegesis) for a lot of Quranic verses which differs greatly from all other tafsirs. One of these verses is the one you mentioned:
"And the universe, we constructed with power and skill and verily we are expanding it." (51:47).
Accordingly, I consider that the translation you quoted for the verse (51:47) is incorrect.
3- Regarding JIN, I do not agree on some of your points.

a- you say: "They live in the Unseen World".
My understanding says that "They live unseen in the seen world".
b- The presence of JIN is not predicted in the "Big Bang" theory. Who think that the "Big Bang" theory is mentioned in the Quran are mistaken.
c- You say (quote):"Their presence ultimately is required for the end of the universe, etc... ", but I say that this is not one of Islamic beliefs.

01101001
2006-Sep-12, 02:27 AM
Hello Dyerwolf,
It seems clear that you are concerned with Islamic studies.
In this post I want to give you only some notices. Your questions, Nereid's, Russt's and others' are really excellent. I have the answers but postpone posting them.

Notices:
1- As a Muslim, Attiyah Zahdeh has Islamic beliefs. He is not a secular man as one of BAUT's members thought.
2- AZ has his own TAFSIR (interpretation, expounding, exegesis) for a lot of Quranic verses which differs greatly from all other tafsirs. One of these verses is the one you mentioned:
"And the universe, we constructed with power and skill and verily we are expanding it." (51:47).
Accordingly, I consider that the translation you quoted for the verse (51:47) is incorrect.
3- Regarding JIN, I do not agree on some of your points.

a- you say: "They live in the Unseen World".
My understanding says that "They live unseen in the seen world".
b- The presence of JIN is not predicted in the "Big Bang" theory. Who think that the "Big Bang" theory is mentioned in the Quran are mistaken.
c- You say (quote):"Their presence ultimately is required for the end of the universe, etc... ", but I say that this is not one of Islamic beliefs.

Let's not turn Q&A into parsing the Quran, please.

Maksutov
2006-Sep-12, 09:30 AM
This looks like an ATM idea dressed up as a question.Exactly right. Time for the mods to move it to ATM, without any cash withdrawals.

Otherwise, the rest of us may wind up with a defetus attitude... http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/566/iconwink6tn.gif

PS: This seems to be crossing the boundary into religious debate.

antoniseb
2006-Sep-12, 10:45 AM
I'm closing this thread. Attiyah Zahdeh, I am giving you a warning that we do not allow religious content in posts in this forum, except as they pertain directly to astronomy or spaceflight. You've been around for 110 posts so far, and are probably aware of this by now, but let me state it implicitly.

If you publish interpretation of the Quran, or any groups sacred texts, you are inviting debate on the part of non-believers, which, in our experience leads to bigger trouble, and angrier arguments than we want to have here.

You are welcome to continue contributing to this forum, but I'm asking you to be much more careful about this from now on.

antoniseb
2006-Sep-12, 12:02 PM
Attiyah Zahdeh has asked me to reopen this thread, and I am doing so. Please, everyone, be careful to follow the rules of this forum.

RussT
2006-Sep-13, 09:17 AM
AZ, since you wanted this reopened, are you ready to enlighten me on these?

So, let me be a little more specific.

AZ,
1. How does the 'alive matter' get here?
2. [The dead matter is that dark matter which departed from the space-time dimension and directing away from it.]...How does this dead matter 'die' and what directs it away and where does it get direct to??? 3 [The foetal matter is that dark matter which is directing to enter the space-time dimension.]...What is foetal (I am assuming you mean 'new' dark matter), and HOW is it directed here, "to enter (our)/the space-time dimension"???

Jens
2006-Sep-13, 09:33 AM
I'm closing this thread. Attiyah Zahdeh, I am giving you a warning that we do not allow religious content in posts in this forum, except as they pertain directly to astronomy or spaceflight.

I definitely agree with your doing this, but I wanted to note that DyerWolf was the first to bring up the religious aspect, as he asked AZ a question point blank.

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-13, 09:56 AM
AZ, since you wanted this reopened, are you ready to enlighten me on these?

So, let me be a little more specific.

AZ,
1. How does the 'alive matter' get here?
2. [The dead matter is that dark matter which departed from the space-time dimension and directing away from it.]...How does this dead matter 'die' and what directs it away and where does it get direct to??? 3 [The foetal matter is that dark matter which is directing to enter the space-time dimension.]...What is foetal (I am assuming you mean 'new' dark matter), and HOW is it directed here, "to enter (our)/the space-time dimension"???

Please read the original post.
======
1. How does the 'alive matter' get here?

From the foetal dark matter.

2- ..
How does this dead matter 'die' and what directs it away and where does it get direct to?
It was "born" having its "program" to transiently occupy a certain interval in the space-time dimension.

3- .. What is foetal (I am assuming you mean 'new' dark matter), and HOW is it directed here, "to enter (our)/the space-time dimension?

As soon as the "program" of the pregnancy is completed the "foetus" is expelled outside the "womb of the creature" into the space-time dimension.

======
But why do not you want to define the dark matter and the dark energy for your own thread about them?
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46810
Why do you avoid answering my questions posted there?

RussT
2006-Sep-13, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=Attiyah Zahdeh
Senior Member
Your questions, Nereid's, Russt's and others' are really excellent. I have the answers but postpone posting them.[/QUOTE]

Why did you orginally say this?

RussT
2006-Sep-13, 10:53 AM
[Please read the original post.]

The4 OP was just 4 questions about alive and dead Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

Later you gave defintions for them, so I thought you understood them.

1. How does the 'alive matter' get here?

From the foetal dark matter.

This is not an answer. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to find a way to be able to talk about these things in some kind of astronomical terms.

What is the astronomical processes where by the Dark Matter somehow gives birth to the alive matter?

2. I ask you...How does this dead matter 'die'?
and you tell me...It was "born" having its "program"...

Want to try again, and again it needs to be astronomically.

[As soon as the "program" of the pregnancy is completed the "foetus" is expelled outside the "womb of the creature" into the space-time dimension.]

And how can we see this creature in space to witness this birth into the space-time dimension?

Attiyah Zahdeh
2006-Sep-13, 08:14 PM
[Please read the original post.]

The4 OP was just 4 questions about alive and dead Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

Later you gave defintions for them, so I thought you understood them.

1. How does the 'alive matter' get here?

From the foetal dark matter.

This is not an answer. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to find a way to be able to talk about these things in some kind of astronomical terms.

What is the astronomical processes where by the Dark Matter somehow gives birth to the alive matter?

2. I ask you...How does this dead matter 'die'?
and you tell me...It was "born" having its "program"...

Want to try again, and again it needs to be astronomically.

[As soon as the "program" of the pregnancy is completed the "foetus" is expelled outside the "womb of the creature" into the space-time dimension.]

And how can we see this creature in space to witness this birth into the space-time dimension?

Please show us your definitions of the dark matter and dark energy in astronomical terms.
To which astronomical processes are your definitions related?

RussT
2006-Sep-13, 08:55 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Cougar
2006-Sep-13, 09:43 PM
As soon as the "program" of the pregnancy is completed the "foetus" is expelled outside the "womb of the creature" into the space-time dimension.
The universe is vast. Our solar system did not even exist for the first 2/3 of the history of the universe, and humans did not exist for roughly 99% of the history of the planet Earth. Your questions and outlook about the workings of the universe seem to be much too centered and focused on humans and other earthly animals. The universe and its workings is not centered around humans or this planet or pregnancies or fetuses or wombs.

In other words, I have no idea what you're talking or asking about. Please try to be more clear - and keep your terminology within the applicable field of investigation.