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View Full Version : is it wrong that this kinda frightens me?



redmadman3000
2006-Sep-16, 01:10 PM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=325&objectid=10400645

something about toying with a force we don't fully undestand kinda worries me... I mean, mini black holes... trying to replicate a big bang in a lab.

am I simply worrisome or shall we end up with something taking a large chunk out of our planet... a door to another dimension whose physics leak into our demension and cause hiccups in physics.

Argos
2006-Sep-16, 01:22 PM
Don´t worry. The life span of a black hole is proportional to their mass. Even if the LHC manage to create mini-black holes, they won´t last longer than a few picoseconds before they "evaporate".

Nicolas
2006-Sep-17, 11:21 PM
However, if Hollywood would manage to create a black hole...

You'd better not be in a cliché disaster movie location. (Paris near the Eiffel tower, Sydney, Berlin, some rural Black African part, near a Chinese Tempel or crowded fish market, in a poorer part of Rio, any major US city, maybe the Kremlin).

clop
2006-Sep-17, 11:27 PM
Quote:

* They estimate the possibility of accidentally destroying the planet as extremely low.

* The risk is calculated at about 10 to the minus 40 - a 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000 chance.

How on earth have they calculated that probability? Why not 10E-41? Or 10E-34?

clop

Dragon Star
2006-Sep-18, 12:35 AM
Because that would make sense...and we can't have that can we? :rolleyes: Probably just randomly picked a far-fetched number and went with it.

Nereid
2006-Sep-18, 12:42 AM
But the silliest part is - the universe has already tested this idea, and it doesn't work (in terms of eating the Earth).

Every day, many times every day, some part of the Earth's atmosphere experiences an event similar to those which the LHC will produce. And this has been happening for ~4.5 billion years. Has the Earth disappeared?

Or, if you prefer, the energy regimes probed by cosmic rays are at least a million times greater than the best the LHC will be able to do, and bazillions of such energetic cosmic rays have hit the Earth, Moon, Sun, Jupiter, ... over the last ~4.5 billion years ... are we're all still here.

Maksutov
2006-Sep-18, 04:36 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=325&objectid=10400645

something about toying with a force we don't fully undestand kinda worries me... I mean, mini black holes... trying to replicate a big bang in a lab.

am I simply worrisome or shall we end up with something taking a large chunk out of our planet... a door to another dimension whose physics leak into our demension and cause hiccups in physics.It appears you're worrisome.

Did you ever read about the concerns certain persons had at Alamogordo in 1945 re the uncontrolled fission reaction igniting the nitrogen component of the atmosphere (http://www.sciencemusings.com/2005/10/what-didnt-happen.html)? The button was pushed (or rather, back then, the switch was thrown) and the nitrogen remained as it was before.

There's very little "toying" that goes on in physics labs. What "toying" you may have seen was probably the product of those outstanding scientists in Hollywood.

Gillianren
2006-Sep-18, 06:21 AM
Did you ever read about the concerns certain persons had at Alamogordo in 1945 re the uncontrolled fission reaction igniting the nitrogen component of the atmosphere (http://www.sciencemusings.com/2005/10/what-didnt-happen.html)? The button was pushed (or rather, back then, the switch was thrown) and the nitrogen remained as it was before.

Have I heard about it? One of my profs back at Evergreen used to work at Bell Labs with a guy who stayed up the night before the test redoing the calculations to make sure it wouldn't happen! (Sadly, my professor, as I recall, didn't tell us who it was. Or if he did, I don't now remember.) (How my prof went from working at Bell Labs to being a history professor at Evergreen, I'm not terribly clear on.)

Makgraf
2006-Sep-19, 08:50 PM
And look who the scientist is... (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22brian+cox%22+site%3Awww.bautforum.com&btnG=Search)

Doodler
2006-Sep-19, 09:05 PM
The thing you've got to keep in mind about black holes, is that aside from their compactness, they're no more gravitationally attractive to other matter than anything else of equal mass.

An example I've used in talking to a friend. What would happen if a 1 solar mass black hole were to replace the Sun, what would happen to the Earth?

Answer: It'd be dark.

A microscopic black hole composed of two smacked protons isn't going to have any more gravitational pull than two protons in a helium nucleus. The intense gravitational effect doesn't take hold until you get deeper into its gravity well than you could were it composed of noncompressed matter. An object's maximum gravity is felt at its surface, the warping of space is the result of having a surface closer to the center of mass of the object allowing passing particles to be subject to the effects of more intense gravitational attraction, given that gravity's effect squares every time you cut the distance between the center of mass and the affected particle in half (something like that). To my example, a solar mass black hole has no more pull on the Earth at 93 million miles from the center than a 1 solar mass star does. A two proton black hole isn't going to be sucking the air out of the room any time before the heat death of the universe. Its just not that strong.

Gillianren
2006-Sep-19, 10:25 PM
You know, it's just amazing of how many of the references on that first page are from here.

Argos
2006-Sep-19, 10:45 PM
A microscopic black hole composed of two smacked protons isn't going to have any more gravitational pull than two protons in a helium nucleus.

Actually the proton beams will be modulated in pulses called "bunches". Each bunch will contain 100,000 million protons. But your reasoning still holds.

Link (http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/collisions.htm)

Trebuchet
2006-Sep-22, 03:24 AM
You know, it's just amazing of how many of the references on that first page are from here.
All of them, at this moment.