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ToSeek
2002-Jan-23, 05:39 PM
The length of the day has been getting shorter since 1992 (http://www.cosmiverse.com/science01230202.html)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ToSeek on 2002-01-24 09:44 ]</font>

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Jan-24, 03:58 AM
Now we know why there hasn't been any leap seconds lately (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=273&forum=2). The earth's rotation has been getting shorter, eh?

Note that that link says "The shortest day in the past 100 years was August 2, 2001, when the length of time that it took Earth to make one complete turn on its axis actually dipped below 24 hours by about one-thousandth of a second."

We know that it actually takes only about 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds (http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry//ask/a11469.html).

ToSeek
2002-Jan-24, 01:05 PM
On 2002-01-23 22:58, GrapesOfWrath wrote:
Note that that link says "The shortest day in the past 100 years was August 2, 2001, when the length of time that it took Earth to make one complete turn on its axis actually dipped below 24 hours by about one-thousandth of a second."

We know that it actually takes only about 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds (http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry//ask/a11469.html).


Or, in this instance, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 3.999 seconds. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ToSeek on 2002-01-24 08:06 ]</font>

Mnemonia
2002-Jan-24, 07:33 PM
"The length of the day changes about a millisecond over the course of a year," says Gross. "It gradually increases in the winter, when Earth rotates more slowly, and decreases in the summer."

The length of the day -- how fast or slow the Earth rotates -- depends on how Earth's mass is distributed. Its mass includes the atmosphere, the solid Earth and its fluid core. When the distribution of Earth's mass changes, like during a major earthquake, so does the speed of its rotation.

"It's like an ice skater," says Gross, "who spins faster as she brings in her arms. She is changing her mass distribution."


This is so damned obvious I'm suprised Science News & JPL bothered to post it. The Earth is closer to the Sun in the Northern hemisphere's winter, so shouldn't the Earth as a whole be made warmer then? And if warm air, water, and presumably mantle rise, then that's when "the arms go out" and the spin is slower (although just barely). Basically he just figured out how much slower and makes it sound like some astonishing revelation.

By the way, when did our iron core melt into a fluid?

Kaptain K
2002-Jan-24, 08:35 PM
Inner core = solid
Outer core = fluid

James
2002-Jan-25, 12:34 AM
On 2002-01-24 15:35, Kaptain K wrote:
Inner core = solid
Outer core = fluid

So, the Outer core would be kinda like the lubricant used to keep hinges and joints working?

2002-Jan-25, 02:12 AM
what kind of lubricant are we talkin' about fellas?

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Jan-25, 03:26 AM
On 2002-01-24 08:05, ToSeek wrote:
Or, in this instance, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 3.999 seconds.
Naw, I think it's actually 4.01 seconds.

Pi Man
2002-Jul-09, 10:22 PM
On 2002-01-24 22:26, GrapesOfWrath wrote:


On 2002-01-24 08:05, ToSeek wrote:
Or, in this instance, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 3.999 seconds.
Naw, I think it's actually 4.01 seconds.

No, no, no! You all have it wrong. it's 23 hours, 56 minutes and 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 1058209749445923078164062862089 seconds!
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

P.S. Don't come after me with evidence otherwise! It was just a joke!
P.P.S. That number is Pi to 80 digits! I memorized it that far!

Pi Man
2002-Jul-09, 10:23 PM
On 2002-01-24 22:26, GrapesOfWrath wrote:


On 2002-01-24 08:05, ToSeek wrote:
Or, in this instance, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 3.999 seconds.
Naw, I think it's actually 4.01 seconds.

No, no, no! You all have it wrong. it's 23 hours, 56 minutes and 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 1058209749445923078164062862089 seconds!
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

P.S. Don't come after me with evidence otherwise! It was just a joke!
P.P.S. That number is Pi to 80 digits! I memorized it that far(I'm just a little bit obsessive)!

David Hall
2002-Jul-10, 04:33 AM
Pi to 80 digits, that's impressive. Of course you've got the name to go with it.

I've memorized about 20 digits myself. I've been slowly learning them bit by bit. I probably won't go much further though. Too many other things to learn. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

John Kierein
2002-Jul-10, 12:26 PM
THE CORE MAY BE SLIPPING? It normally rotates slightly faster than the surface.
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/press_releases/song/pr.html

20 digits should be easy. You can remember your ssn, address, phone number, PIN, other folks' phone numbers, the multiplication tables. String 'em all together and you get lots more than 20 digits. Just use a similar technique.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: john kierein on 2002-07-10 10:32 ]</font>

Mespo_Man
2002-Jul-10, 01:10 PM
Okay,

But what happened to the argument that over the l-o-o-o-o-n-g term, the Earth's rotation is slowing down because of atmospheric friction with land masses? What about the much shorter work day that Fred Flintstone got away with at Jurassic Sand and Gravel that is part of the geologic record?


(:raig

Alan G. Archer
2002-Jul-10, 03:56 PM
On 2002-07-10 09:10, Mespo_Man wrote:
Okay,

But what happened to the argument that over the l-o-o-o-o-n-g term, the Earth's rotation is slowing down because of atmospheric friction with land masses? What about the much shorter work day that Fred Flintstone got away with at Jurassic Sand and Gravel that is part of the geologic record?


(:raig


About
190 million years ago (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/9811/9811024.pdf), Fred's day was about 56 minutes shorter than what we experience now. Also, there were about 382 days in his year. That's two extra weekends of bowling and Loyal Order of Water Buffalos lodge meetings. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alan G. Archer on 2002-07-10 11:58 ]</font>

xriso
2002-Jul-10, 04:42 PM
On 2002-07-09 18:22, Pi Man wrote:
No, no, no! You all have it wrong. it's 23 hours, 56 minutes and 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 1058209749445923078164062862089 seconds!
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

P.S. Don't come after me with evidence otherwise! It was just a joke!
P.P.S. That number is Pi to 80 digits! I memorized it that far!



Come on! just 21 more digits and you can join the PI 100 club!!! (21 because we don't count the 3.)

http://www.acc.umu.se/~olletg/pi/tribute.html

Here, I'll spell them out to ya (where you left off): ...986280348253421170679...

I used to be at 150, but didn't practice and forgot down to 100.

Mespo_Man
2002-Jul-10, 05:14 PM
Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!!!

Alan, I read the article you referenced in your post. Although I agree with the fossil record interpretation of shorter days in the past, Mr Arbab's conclusion about increased gravity, "G", is mind-boggling. If I interpret his remarks correctly, the Earth and every other planetary body in this solar system are in death spirals toward the Sun due to the increase in gravity over time.

HUH???? Is his paper a simple case of a Sunday all-nighter for a Monday morning submission deadline?


(:raig

nebularain
2002-Jul-11, 12:07 AM
On 2002-07-10 12:42, xriso wrote:


On 2002-07-09 18:22, Pi Man wrote:
No, no, no! You all have it wrong. it's 23 hours, 56 minutes and 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 1058209749445923078164062862089 seconds!
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

P.S. Don't come after me with evidence otherwise! It was just a joke!
P.P.S. That number is Pi to 80 digits! I memorized it that far!



Come on! just 21 more digits and you can join the PI 100 club!!! (21 because we don't count the 3.)

http://www.acc.umu.se/~olletg/pi/tribute.html

Here, I'll spell them out to ya (where you left off): ...986280348253421170679...

I used to be at 150, but didn't practice and forgot down to 100.



Some people have wa-a-a-a-a-a-y too much time on their hands....

Pi Man
2002-Jul-11, 04:11 PM
Way too much time? I wouldn't say that... Just enough too much time to memorize 80 random integers, in order, from 0 through 9, for no particular reason.

By the way, I didn't need the next 21 digits of Pi. I already found this (http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/pi/pi.txt)!

I should try to tie Pi into astronomy. If we someday build a circular space station that is one light year in radius, it could predict the shape of the universe. The area of the circle would be Pi*R^2, right? If the universe is spherical(i.e. has positive curvature), then the area would have to be greater than Pi r squared. If the universe is saddle shaped(i.e. has negative curvature), the area must be less than Pi r squared.

'Nuff said

Is the slowing of the earth's rotation due(at least in part) to tital locking(like with earth's moon?) Or is it completely due to friction?

&infin;
&pi;=&sum;(4/(4n+1)-4/(4n+3))
n=0


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pi Man on 2002-07-11 17:23 ]</font>

Kaptain K
2002-Jul-11, 08:03 PM
Is the slowing of the earth's rotation due(at least in part) to tital locking(like with earth's moon?) Or is it completely due to friction?
The friction that is slowing the Earth's rotation is caused by tidal drag (from the Moon and to a lesser degree, the Sun). This will eventually result in the Earth being tidally locked to the Moon. Unless the Sun goes red giant first.

beskeptical
2002-Jul-11, 10:25 PM
On 2002-07-11 12:11, Pi Man wrote:
I should try to tie Pi into astronomy.

I think they put Pi on that disk that went with the vehicle,(Voyager X?), that is traveling out of our solar system. If any aliens encounter the ship and figure out how to read the disk they'll know the ship is from a technological race and not some natural phenomonon. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif There was some kind of logic like that.

Then again, maybe I'm confusing memories again. I might have had a grade school teacher that suggested we beam Pi out into space so an alien who encountered the radio message would know it was from us and not a Quasar or something.

nebularain
2002-Jul-12, 12:23 AM
"When the moon hits the sky like a big pizza pie, that's amore"

Oops! Wrong "pi"!
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

beskeptical
2002-Jul-12, 12:51 AM
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif That's cute.

xriso
2002-Jul-12, 05:00 AM
On 2002-07-11 12:11, Pi Man wrote:
Way too much time? I wouldn't say that... Just enough too much time to memorize 80 random integers, in order, from 0 through 9, for no particular reason.

By the way, I didn't need the next 21 digits of Pi. I already found this (http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/pi/pi.txt)!

I should try to tie Pi into astronomy. If we someday build a circular space station that is one light year in radius, it could predict the shape of the universe. The area of the circle would be Pi*R^2, right? If the universe is spherical(i.e. has positive curvature), then the area would have to be greater than Pi r squared. If the universe is saddle shaped(i.e. has negative curvature), the area must be less than Pi r squared.


I think that cosmologists already figured out that it's overall flat (can anyone confirm this?). But your test would be a rather interesting experiment. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

ToSeek
2002-Jul-12, 06:10 PM
On 2002-07-11 18:25, beskeptical wrote:
I think they put Pi on that disk that went with the vehicle,(Voyager X?), that is traveling out of our solar system. If any aliens encounter the ship and figure out how to read the disk they'll know the ship is from a technological race and not some natural phenomonon. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif There was some kind of logic like that.



Didn't see any mention of pi in this description of what went on Voyager (http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/record.html).

beskeptical
2002-Jul-13, 04:18 AM
On 2002-07-12 14:10, ToSeek wrote:


On 2002-07-11 18:25, beskeptical wrote:
I think they put Pi on that disk that went with the vehicle,(Voyager X?), that is traveling out of our solar system. If any aliens encounter the ship and figure out how to read the disk they'll know the ship is from a technological race and not some natural phenomonon. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif There was some kind of logic like that.



Didn't see any mention of pi in this description of what went on Voyager (http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/record.html).



Fascinating. I guess it was the grade school teacher. I don't think it's a false memory because I wouldn't have thought of it myself.

Donnie B.
2002-Jul-13, 02:31 PM
Could you have confused pi with prime numbers?

I believe that the Pioneer plaque included groups of dots in the sequence 1-2-3-5-7-11... to demonstrate that it was an artifact, not a natural object.

beskeptical
2002-Jul-13, 06:30 PM
On 2002-07-13 10:31, Donnie B. wrote:
Could you have confused pi with prime numbers?

I believe that the Pioneer plaque included groups of dots in the sequence 1-2-3-5-7-11... to demonstrate that it was an artifact, not a natural object.



Nah. I'm sure that since it wasn't on the disc, it had to be the grade school teacher. It's one of those funny memories that stay with you for who knows what reason. There is strong evidence for false memories that can be similar, but I wouldn't have thought of sending Pi. And, prime numbers are only prime in base 10 aren't they? That could be used if base 10 is first explained but wouldn't it be harder to send out as a radio signal? Pi could be sent out in base 2, a more likely universal system since it's required for our digital communication.

ljbrs
2002-Jul-13, 08:34 PM
Talking about memorization, Albert Einstein once stated that he never memorized anything that he could look up. I am fully in agreement with him on that score. I understand that he had to look up his telephone number in the telephone book because he never called his own number.

So, whenever I forget anything as important as my own telephone number, I always quote Einstein.

ljbrs /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Donnie B.
2002-Jul-14, 01:53 AM
On 2002-07-13 14:30, beskeptical wrote:
And, prime numbers are only prime in base 10 aren't they?

Certainly not! Prime is prime, no matter what the notation.

xriso
2002-Jul-14, 03:29 AM
On 2002-07-13 10:31, Donnie B. wrote:
Could you have confused pi with prime numbers?

I believe that the Pioneer plaque included groups of dots in the sequence 1-2-3-5-7-11... to demonstrate that it was an artifact, not a natural object.



IMHO, any alien race that is stupid enough to not have already figured out that it is an artificial object is not worth communicating with. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

beskeptical
2002-Jul-14, 07:52 AM
On 2002-07-13 21:53, Donnie B. wrote:


On 2002-07-13 14:30, beskeptical wrote:
And, prime numbers are only prime in base 10 aren't they?

Certainly not! Prime is prime, no matter what the notation.



Yes. I see. I put some base 2 numbers down and could see they still represented the same numbers so they would still be divisible by the same numbers. All those ones and zeros looked divisible until I thought about it. Thanks for the correction.

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Jul-16, 03:44 AM
On 2002-07-13 00:18, beskeptical wrote:
I don't think it's a false memory because I wouldn't have thought of it myself.


Why is that? I mean, why do you think you wouldn't have thought of it yourself?

beskeptical
2002-Jul-16, 08:22 AM
On 2002-07-15 23:44, GrapesOfWrath wrote:


On 2002-07-13 00:18, beskeptical wrote:
I don't think it's a false memory because I wouldn't have thought of it myself.


Why is that? I mean, why do you think you wouldn't have thought of it yourself?


I understand math and do well in it, but it is not something I use conceptually very often. And, I took a lot of algebra in school but managed to skip geometry. Math as a universal language makes sense but I would have come up with something else, perhaps beaming some music into space or something. Of course Pi makes perfect sense.

As a side note, the massive amount of math needed in the astronomy field is the one part of that science I ignore. I'll just take your word for it that Quasars are x light years away and the wavelength of y in the visible light spectrum from Alpha Centauri tells you iron is present in z proportion.

We can't all be physicists. Some of us have to be occupational infectious disease hazard specialists. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Not too much math in that field, except lots of statistics. Statistics are easy math.

Kaptain K
2002-Jul-16, 10:54 AM
Some of us have to be occupational infectious disease hazard specialists.
Aren't inflated job titles fun?

My official job title is:

Product Inventory Control, Nightshift Team Leader.

_________________
When all is said and done - sit down and shut up!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaptain K on 2002-07-16 06:57 ]</font>

beskeptical
2002-Jul-16, 09:43 PM
On 2002-07-16 06:54, Kaptain K wrote:

Some of us have to be occupational infectious disease hazard specialists.
Aren't inflated job titles fun?

My official job title is:

Product Inventory Control, Nightshift Team Leader.

_________________
When all is said and done - sit down and shut up!


It's not an inflated title, I'm self employed. If I said I was the CEO it would be more inflated even though I technically am. It was an attempt to explain what I do since there are so few people who do it.

I am a Certified Family Nurse Practitioner, a Certified Occupational Health Nurse Specialist, with a Masters in Nursing Science, who is licensed as an Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner, and who has been in private practice for the last 12 years in a business called Employee Health Practitioners, Educators, and Consultants, that specializes in occupational infectious disease hazards. I have contracts with cities, fire districts, police departments, hundreds of dentists, and a few misc. employers to do training, consulting, vaccinations, medical testing, and to see employees who have been exposed to blood, potential diseases and actual diseases.

Now wasn't it easier to just say I am an occupational infectious disease hazard specialist?

Kaptain K
2002-Jul-17, 10:09 AM
Mea culpa. No offense intended.

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Jul-17, 01:40 PM
I'd just like to point out that your examples of math in astronomy are easier than most statistics. It's just a matter of how one spends their time, not a matter of being harder.

I used to just call myself a Teratologist.

beskeptical
2002-Jul-17, 07:12 PM
On 2002-07-17 06:09, Kaptain K wrote:
Mea culpa. No offense intended.



I knew that would sound like I was offended. I wasn't offended in the least. Terminology used in business to change messages actually cracks me up. Layoffs become downsizing becomes rightsizing... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Dilbert is my favorite cartoon.

beskeptical
2002-Jul-17, 07:21 PM
On 2002-07-17 09:40, GrapesOfWrath wrote:
I'd just like to point out that your examples of math in astronomy are easier than most statistics. It's just a matter of how one spends their time, not a matter of being harder.

I used to just call myself a Teratologist.


Each science field has its own language. Astronomy and physics seem to have a large proportion of math in theirs. Doing the calculations is probably not that hard, but learning the language takes a lot of brain space. In this case I'll just get the story from the interpreters.

What is a Teratologist? Is that Earth science? What do you call yourself now?

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Jul-17, 07:32 PM
On 2002-07-17 15:21, beskeptical wrote:
What is a Teratologist? Is that Earth science? What do you call yourself now?


No, I guess that would be terralogist. I did choose teratology because of the near pun, though. I'm ABD PhD in geology/geophysics. My Ame.Her.Dic says that teratology is "the biological study of malformations and monstrosities." Whenever anyone asks where I study malformations, I just say the BABB.

Phobos
2002-Jul-17, 08:34 PM
On 2002-07-13 00:18, beskeptical wrote:


On 2002-07-12 14:10, ToSeek wrote:


On 2002-07-11 18:25, beskeptical wrote:
I think they put Pi on that disk that went with the vehicle,(Voyager X?), that is traveling out of our solar system. If any aliens encounter the ship and figure out how to read the disk they'll know the ship is from a technological race and not some natural phenomonon. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif There was some kind of logic like that.



Didn't see any mention of pi in this description of what went on Voyager (http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/record.html).



Fascinating. I guess it was the grade school teacher. I don't think it's a false memory because I wouldn't have thought of it myself.


Actually Pioneer 10 was launched with a message plaque on 2 March 1972 whilst the voyager spacecraft were not launched until 20 August 1977. The message was composed by Carl Sagan who apparently received a suggestion from a person very popular on this board (http://www.enterprisemission.com/pioneer.html).

Phobos /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif
PS to balance the books you may find this interesting reading (http://members.aol.com/garypos2/Hoagland.html)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phobos on 2002-07-17 16:54 ]</font>

beskeptical
2002-Jul-18, 02:24 AM
On 2002-07-17 15:32, GrapesOfWrath wrote:


On 2002-07-17 15:21, beskeptical wrote:
What is a Teratologist? Is that Earth science? What do you call yourself now?


No, I guess that would be terralogist. I did choose teratology because of the near pun, though. I'm ABD PhD in geology/geophysics. My Ame.Her.Dic says that teratology is "the biological study of malformations and monstrosities." Whenever anyone asks where I study malformations, I just say the BABB.


Ah. Like the word teratogenic, which would be something that causes birth defects. What a shame the American Heritage would include 'monstrosities' in the definition. Oh well.

What does 'ABD' mean or did you mean to say 'BAD PhD'?

beskeptical
2002-Jul-18, 02:32 AM
On 2002-07-17 16:34, Phobos wrote:
Actually Pioneer 10 was launched with a message plaque on 2 March 1972 whilst the voyager spacecraft were not launched until 20 August 1977.
Phobos /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif


I knew I should have looked up the right name but I figured you guys would know it. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I have a strange brain defect that doesn't record or retreive names very well. Wierd because I have little trouble remembering infectious disease stuff. Yes, this is an odd trait and it doesn't make me the life of too many parties. But people do call me for lots of advice. I guess that's good. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif