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g99
2003-May-02, 08:50 PM
Some Astronomy BA in this movie. I will write a review in a few days. Its graduation time and family is coming up. Dang...:-(

I do have to say it is much, much better than the first movie. This one had a real plot. Plus it stated much closer to the comics than the last one.



Spoiler:


One word: Pheonix. :-)

nebularain
2003-May-02, 09:13 PM
Oh, gee, thanks! Ruin the suprise for me. :evil:

Colt
2003-May-02, 11:40 PM
I haven't seen it yet and I really don't care if I read a review for it before hand. There is a large difference between reading a book/watching a movie and just reading a review about it.

One thing that I have speculated ab out is that Lady Deathstrike is Wolverine's sister, same genetic trait for a super immune system. Never read any of the comic books (I was reading Clarke when normal kids would have been reading comic books) but I have seen som episodes of the show. -Colt

Glom
2003-May-03, 02:15 AM
One word: Pheonix. :-)

Would that be Phoenix?

g99
2003-May-03, 02:54 AM
I haven't seen it yet and I really don't care if I read a review for it before hand. There is a large difference between reading a book/watching a movie and just reading a review about it.

One thing that I have speculated ab out is that Lady Deathstrike is Wolverine's sister, same genetic trait for a super immune system. Never read any of the comic books (I was reading Clarke when normal kids would have been reading comic books) but I have seen som episodes of the show. -Colt

Supposedly (its been a few uears) lady deathstrike was Wolverines lover. I think.


Glom:
So now you and grapes are my spellchekers?:P



Neb: I did warn you. :P

-------------------------

To be fair to all of you i will post my review on my site. That way you can have a choice to read it. :-) It wont be anything like the Core review i did. More like a real review.

g99
2003-May-03, 03:04 AM
P.S. oh neb. Sorry for giving away the thing. I could not resist.

But to make you feel better, it does not give away any plot points and is not a part of the plot at all except to give us comic book fanatics a thrill. :-)

Colt
2003-May-03, 03:59 AM
Could one of you clue me in on what "Phoenix" is? It is not like I go around saying "Conundrum" all of the time. :P -Colt

kilopi
2003-May-03, 04:07 AM
So now you and grapes are my spellchekers?
The lady doth protest too much. :)

g99
2003-May-03, 04:26 AM
Could one of you clue me in on what "Phoenix" is? It is not like I go around saying "Conundrum" all of the time. :P -Colt

Pheonix is Jean Greys "evolved" character. Later on in the X-men series she turn into the Pheonix. Basically she becomes superpowered. She even become so powerful it corrupts her and she becomes evil.

Pheonix is a alien energy form. It saves her life in the comixs when the shuttle the X-men are on gets a massive dose from a solar storm/flair (yah i nkow, hoax stuff :-) ). All the rest of the x-men are in a radiation shielded part of the shuttle, but she is not.

The movie plays it off a little differently. But i won't tell you how. :-)

Colt
2003-May-03, 05:19 AM
I was thinking about this today at school when we were talking about X-2.

What power would you rather have?

1. Telekinesis (no minding reading stuff, just moving objects, lighting things on fire, etc.)

2. Super Strength (stay the same size but be able to lift stupidly huge amounts of stuff)

3. Super Speed (go really fast in everything; makes people appear to be in slow-motion)

Before you read my reasons post your first choice, use logic in your choosing.

Telekinesis: I would choose this one because you can do so many things with it. The ultimate tool, the mind, would have physical presence in the world.
Strength: Why? With telekinesis you could lift just as much.
Speed: Useful in a fight or retreat. Hit the person 50 times before they even move their arm.

-Colt

g99
2003-May-03, 05:50 AM
I was thinking about this today at school when we were talking about X-2.

What power would you rather have?

1. Telekinesis (no minding reading stuff, just moving objects, lighting things on fire, etc.)

2. Super Strength (stay the same size but be able to lift stupidly huge amounts of stuff)

3. Super Speed (go really fast in everything; makes people appear to be in slow-motion)

Before you read my reasons post your first choice, use logic in your choosing.

Telekinesis: I would choose this one because you can do so many things with it. The ultimate tool, the mind, would have physical presence in the world.
Strength: Why? With telekinesis you could lift just as much.
Speed: Useful in a fight or retreat. Hit the person 50 times before they even move their arm.

-Colt

Telekenesis. Because it could lead to the one power i really want: Flight. :-)

kilopi
2003-May-03, 09:36 AM
Have you guys seen the new Baskin and Robbins X-Men ice cream flavors (http://www.baskinrobbins.com/promo/X2.shtml)? One of them is X-cream-mint. Who thinks up these things? :)

gethen
2003-May-03, 03:26 PM
Have you guys seen the new Baskin and Robbins X-Men ice cream flavors (http://www.baskinrobbins.com/promo/X2.shtml)? One of them is X-cream-mint. Who thinks up these things? :)
O.K. I looked. I fell for it. Ouch.

nebularain
2003-May-03, 05:19 PM
Pheonix is Jean Greys "evolved" character. Later on in the X-men series she turn into the Pheonix. Basically she becomes superpowered. She even become so powerful it corrupts her and she becomes evil.

Pheonix is a alien energy form. It saves her life in the comixs when the shuttle the X-men are on gets a massive dose from a solar storm/flair (yah i nkow, hoax stuff :-) ). All the rest of the x-men are in a radiation shielded part of the shuttle, but she is not.


Actually, Phoenix takes on the form of Jean Grey and puts Jean's body in a cocoon to heal (she had tried to use her telekenisis to shield herself from the radiation, but it was not 100% effective). BTW, they were travelling back to Earth from some other solar system, I believe. (Way long story.)

But the Phoenix-force (as its more appropriately called) has to actually believe it is Jean Grey in order to be compatible with the form of Jean. So, no one, not even Jean/Phoenix knows she is not the real Jean. She just thinks she somehow "resurrected" herself.

Many, many editions later, a bad guy with mind bending powers corrupts Jeans' mind as a means of possessing her. Unfortunately, Phoenix contains higher telepathic powers than even Xavier (known as the mutant with the strongest mind), so she is able to break the "spell," but the mindbending unleashed a monster - Jean Grey/Phoenix became Dark Phoenix. Dark Phoenix was as evil as Jean Grey/Phoenix was good (they didn't show it well in the first movie, but Jean has a very huge, compassionate heart). Dark Phoenix becomes destructive to the point of consuming a star, one with an inhabited planet - of course, they are all destroyed. When "Jean" is able to gain control of her mind again with the help of the X-Men and some ally aliens, the memory of what she did as Dark Phoenix (destroying life) torments her greatly. To make a longer story short, she destroys herself to prevent Dark Phoenix from taking over again and killing those she loves.

Many, many editions later, the real Jean Grey's cocoon is found in the ocean (where the space ship the X-Men were in crashed) by the Fantastic Four. Which opens a whole new complicated plot. But that's not for this discussion!

So, it will be interesting to see if the third movie continues and/or completes the entire saga.


Neb: I did warn you.

Yeah, but there was not enough gap between the warning and the post to turn away. And come on, you have to admit, that is the spoiler of spoilers there!



One thing that I have speculated ab out is that Lady Deathstrike is Wolverine's sister, same genetic trait for a super immune system.

Supposedly (its been a few uears) lady deathstrike was Wolverines lover. I think.

I believe that is correct. But I think the comics have uncovered after much speculation that Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers. What the first movie missed was that Sabertooth had a similar memory loss to Wolverine, when they see each other, even after the memory wipe, they both know they know each other and that they hate each other's guts - but they don't know why.

The first movie also really played down Sabertooth. He's a lot more fierce, a lot more tough, a lot more filled with hatred, a true cold-blooded killer, . . . . Basically, there would be absolutely no way Magneto would have been able to walk over Sabertooth like he did! Sabertooth is a yes-man to no one. I'll put it this way, in "reality," if Magneto had locked Sabertooth in the cell (as he did in the first movie), Sabertooth would have torn through the wall and then gone after Magneto and let him know where he could go while making sure Magneto actually got there!

I could go on about how the first movie deviated from the comics, but most of you would get lost - if I didn't nlose you already. :wink:

frenat
2003-May-03, 08:06 PM
For those who don't know, Nightcrawler is also Mystique's son.

Matherly
2003-May-04, 01:14 AM
(I was reading Clarke when normal kids would have been reading comic books)

:-? Really? I'm reading comic books when most adults are reading the Wall Street Journal <shrug>

nebularain
2003-May-04, 03:29 AM
OK - saw the movie.

And the bad astronomy is at the very beginning the screen is filled with a field of stars. The perspective of the viewer moves through the star field. The stars are moving as if the viewer is moving through the stars! Oh, need I comment?! :roll:

***********

OK, g99, you promised that "[the movie] stayed much closer to the comics than the last one."

Err...how? In the comics, the Blackbird (X-Men's jet) could outfly the jets chasing them no sweat. Storm could have created a strong enough wind to carry the Blackbird to safety if needed. Wolverine would have been able to smell and/or hear the invaders as soon as the first one entered the mansion, if not sooner. Deathstrike is actually a cyborg. Wolverine is the toughest fighter alive; he is a master of every martial arts known; he doesn't show his pain much; hardly ever would even be phased by pain in the middle of a fight; nor would he be knocked out by a bullet hitting his adamathium-covered skull! Fighting Deathstrike as a cyborg would have been a tough match, but she would most certainly not be tearing him to pieces like she did. And Wolverine would never have resorted to what he did in the movie to bring her down - he's too proud for that. Ugh! Scott is a much stronger figure, a genuine leader with a cold-steel-type of resolve, and he would not have been taken down so easily in a fight - he's much more focused than that! And Storm filled with hate?! Sheesh! She's too mature and matriarchal for that! AARRRRRRRRRRGGGHH!!!!! :x

OK, rant over.

I hope they get it right in the next movie.

But, I did like how they portrayed Nightcrawler! :D You go Kurt!

g99
2003-May-04, 04:49 AM
Thanks neb. :-)

In my defense it has been many years since i have read x-men. Most of my knoledge of them is second hand. Thanks for correcting me on the pheonix issue.


Question:

Wasn't Rogue also Mystiques daugther? I think i heard that somewhere.

g99
2003-May-04, 05:00 AM
OK - saw the movie.

And the bad astronomy is at the very beginning the screen is filled with a field of stars. The perspective of the viewer moves through the star field. The stars are moving as if the viewer is moving through the stars! Oh, need I comment?! :roll:

***********

OK, g99, you promised that "[the movie] stayed much closer to the comics than the last one."

Err...how? In the comics, the Blackbird (X-Men's jet) could outfly the jets chasing them no sweat. Storm could have created a strong enough wind to carry the Blackbird to safety if needed. Wolverine would have been able to smell and/or hear the invaders as soon as the first one entered the mansion, if not sooner. Deathstrike is actually a cyborg. Wolverine is the toughest fighter alive; he is a master of every martial arts known; he doesn't show his pain much; hardly ever would even be phased by pain in the middle of a fight; nor would he be knocked out by a bullet hitting his adamathium-covered skull! Fighting Deathstrike as a cyborg would have been a tough match, but she would most certainly not be tearing him to pieces like she did. And Wolverine would never have resorted to what he did in the movie to bring her down - he's too proud for that. Ugh! Scott is a much stronger figure, a genuine leader with a cold-steel-type of resolve, and he would not have been taken down so easily in a fight - he's much more focused than that! And Storm filled with hate?! Sheesh! She's too mature and matriarchal for that! AARRRRRRRRRRGGGHH!!!!! :x

OK, rant over.

I hope they get it right in the next movie.

But, I did like how they portrayed Nightcrawler! :D You go Kurt!

I did say closer than the first movie. I didn't say exactly with the comics. :-)

Spoilers....



















(big enougth space? :-) )

Storm, i would agree with. The death of Deatchstike was very...well. Gross for the X-men movie and i would agree that Wolverine would not do that. but he did skewer alot of redshirt Special ops people with no remorse. Selective hero?

Wolverirne did smell the inturders once they were inside the base. Just not instantly when they were on the grounds.

As i have said i have not followed the comics for several years. The last x-men comic series i have read was the age of apokalypse (sp?) and that was a long time ago. Even then i had only stated a few comics before. I apreciate you filling me in on the facts. I bow down to your superior knoledge of comics. :-)

Now video games is a different matter. That i am fairly compitent about . But that will be left for another topic....:P

Again, thanks. :-)

-----------

So did you like the movie or not? Would you agree it was much better than the first neb.?

nebularain
2003-May-04, 05:40 PM
Rogue is Mystiques's adopted daughter. She actually joined the X-Men as an adult.

The reason for her changing sides was that she had fought a mutant named Carol Danvers (Ms. Marvel) who has the power of flight and invulnerability, but in using her own mutant power (absorbing power and psyche from another through touch) against Carol, Carol fought back so hard through it that somehow the transfer of Carol's power and psyche became permanent. In desperation, Rogue sought after Professor X for help. It took a long time for the other X-Men to accept her.

To answer your other question, I both liked and disliked it. I disliked it for the inconsistencies. C'mon, the Wolverine in the comics could take down the Wolverine in the movie in 5 seconds! Otherwise, it was a good action flick.

Oh, and I forgot the mention the brief inclusion of Colossus (skin turns into a living invulnerable metal). Now that was cool! It's a shame we could not have seen more of him in action. I also enjoyed seeing Kitty Pryde (Shadowcat - phases through objects - can't catch me!). I hope next movie to see more of her - like maybe her computer geniousness at work(?).

BTW, it's been years since I've read the series, too (things started getting too confusing), but I did read most of the series from the beginning of when Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus first joined with Scott and Jean up through the saga with where the forces of Limbo were attacking Earth (the whole thing with Ilyana).

Colt
2003-May-04, 07:15 PM
Video games... Mmm... I think in the movie they were trying to make the characters more believable than Wolverines entire skeleton being made from admantium instead of just having it armored in the stuff. You can not just get rid of your skeleton, it carries nerves and is alive. -Colt

nebularain
2003-May-04, 07:18 PM
No, his skeleton was plated in the comics.

David Hall
2003-May-05, 04:15 AM
You can not just get rid of your skeleton, it carries nerves and is alive. -Colt

More than that, they are the source of all your red blood cells. Loose too much of your skeleton and you'll die from anemia (or something like that).

IIRC, Wolverine had his skeleton impregnated with adamantium in a way that left the biological functions intact, but made them almost unbreakable. They weren't just plated, but merged with the metal. He was only able to survive the procedure due to his incredible healing ability.

tracer
2003-May-05, 04:39 AM
Some Astronomy BA in this movie.
Astronomy Bad Astronomy?

Is that anything like an ATM Machine, or a PIN Number, or the HIV Virus?


-- tracer, proud member of the Department of Redundancy Department

tracer
2003-May-05, 04:46 AM
No, his skeleton was plated in the comics.
Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't.

The explanation has varied over the years, from "strips of adamantium are embedded in Wolverine's skeleton" to "adamantium is mixed with his bone material at the molecular level."

(Curiously, there's a similar variation in the explanation for his claws. In some origin stories, the experimenters who put the adamantium in Wolverine's bones intentionally gave him spring-loaded claws, and in other origin stories, the claws formed spontaneously when he was infused with adamantium to the total surprise of the experimenters. When Magneto pulled all the adamantium out of Wolverine's body, thereby taxing his healing factor so much that he lost his fast-healing ability thereafter, Wolverine discovered that he still had bone claws, which implied to him that he must've had the claws before the adamantium experiment.)

Oh, and for the record: There is no such metal as "adamantium" in the real world. It was an alloy made up for the pages of Marvel Comics.

darkhunter
2003-May-05, 07:24 PM
Reminds me of a science fiction trilogy I read years ago. Guy had "unobtainium" (can't remember alloy) plated bones a Pet alien. Some sort of super soldier trying to get rid of a Really Bad Guy. Sorry for the vagueness, but it's been at least twenty years (or more)...

Colt
2003-May-06, 12:21 AM
If all of the admantium was ripped from his body I would think that he would die on the spot, regardless of his healing rate. And bone claws? I am not sure how useful those would be. It makes more sense for them to have been added by the experiementers and they are controlled by his muscles. -Colt

tracer
2003-May-06, 02:10 AM
If all of the admantium was ripped from his body I would think that he would die on the spot, regardless of his healing rate.
Well, sure, if he were an ordinary guy with super-healing. But this is Wolverine we're talking about, here. He's, like, really really tough, and stuff.

logicboy
2003-May-06, 02:10 PM
I saw X2 again last night, did anyone see Dr. McCoy aka Beast on the TV when the guard was drinking his beer. I hope he is in the next movie I also hope they have Gambit and what about Apocolypse also what this about Rouge being way too weak in these first movies, in the Comics and the cartoon she could fly and punch stuff really really hard. I really liked Night Crawler in this movie.


Who is your favorite character? mine is Beast, Wolverine comes in at a close 2nd.

nebularain
2003-May-06, 03:35 PM
Yeah, I noticed Hank on screen, too.

About Rogue, as I mentioned before, her invulnerability and flying ability come from haivng absorbed the power and psyche of a mutant named Carol Danvers (Ms. Marvel), but because the fight between them was so fierce, somehow the transference became permanent. Of course, this happened when Rogue was a bad guy, so I don't know how they could fit this into the movie.

tracer
2003-May-06, 10:24 PM
I thought that Ms. Marvel's powers came from her body being fused with a Kree super-suit, not from any mutant abilities.

Comixx
2003-May-07, 03:54 AM
Well, about the cameos, some weren't played by actors :) Like the quick Hank McCoy shot, I also noticed names like Remy LeBeau and others on the list in the computer at Stryker's facility when Mystique is hacking...I do love the cameos, but I dont like the way the ages of certain characters dont jive with their comic-book counterparts...several of the characters are portrayed as much much younger in the movie than they are supposed to be.

All told, I really liked X2, better even than X-Men...next on my list of Must-Sees is The Matrix: Reloaded.

nebularain
2003-May-07, 02:15 PM
I thought that Ms. Marvel's powers came from her body being fused with a Kree super-suit, not from any mutant abilities.

Was that before or after she became Binary?

gethen
2003-May-07, 02:19 PM
Finally saw this movie last night and I loved it. I particularly like the casting--they used real, skilled actors. If the characters are going to be superheroes (or supervillains) a decent actor makes them at least believable. Favorite mutant--Nightcrawler, of course.

tracer
2003-May-07, 03:57 PM
I thought that Ms. Marvel's powers came from her body being fused with a Kree super-suit, not from any mutant abilities.

Was that before or after she became Binary?
Before. Long before. (Although Carol Danvers has always had a rather large *ahem* binary system of her own.)

2003-May-09, 12:59 AM
I thought that Ms. Marvel's powers came from her body being fused with a Kree super-suit, not from any mutant abilities.

Was that before or after she became Binary?


Before...BTW Carol Danvers lost most of Binary powers recently and now goes by the much cooler codename of Warbird.

tracer
2003-May-09, 02:07 AM
"Warbird"?

Romulan or Klingon? ;)

Comixx
2003-May-09, 08:14 AM
Isnt the Warbird Romulan? The Klingon version is the Bird of Prey.

But, how dare you mix geek references! This is a comicbook vs movie thread, not a ST thread :P hehe

Seriously though, on the X-Men topic, if you want to know the origins of the team, check out this site (http://www.marveldirectory.com/teams/xmen.htm)

tracer
2003-May-09, 06:52 PM
Isnt the Warbird Romulan? The Klingon version is the Bird of Prey.
In the ST:TOS episode "Balance of Terror", the Romulan ship was referred to as a "Bird of Prey" (just like the Klingon ship in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was called a "Bird of Prey").

However, in the Star Fleet Battles wargame, the ship that was referred to as a Bird of Prey in "Balance of Terror" was called the Romulan Warbird. (Not to be confused with the Romulan Warbird that appeared in ST:TNG; Star Fleet Battles was set firmly in the 23rd century, not the 24th.)

Now, the Klingon version of the Bird of Prey never appeared in Star Fleet Battles. However, if it did, I'd bet you dollars to donut-holes that it would be called a Klingon Warbird.

Therefore, by my own twisted and strained logic, if Carol Danvers changed her name to Warbird, she could be either the Romulan or the Klingon version. Q.E.D..

daver
2003-May-09, 08:53 PM
Therefore, by my own twisted and strained logic, if Carol Danvers changed her name to Warbird, she could be either the Romulan or the Klingon version. Q.E.D..
Well, if the Romulans can have Warbirds and the Klingons can have Warbirds, anyone could have Warbirds--Tholians, Zorns, Andoreans, what have you (Kzin probably wouldn't, though. They could, they just wouldn't).

So, it's reasonable to assume that the Kree would also have Warbirds. Occam's razor might lead you to conclude that she was a Kree Warbird.

tracer
2003-May-10, 02:49 AM
In which case, she might find herself in a pickle if she got in a fight with a Skrull battlecruiser. Unless she used her Kree Warbird cloaking device.

Mark Skarr
2003-May-10, 06:33 PM
I've just got to ask where Jean's getting the Phoenix powers from? I mean, yeah, Phoenix always has been my favorite character (Rachel and Jean) but there's a big back story.
Are they going to say that Magneto's mutant inducer from the first movie boosted her X-factor to a new level? If so, why did she go from PK/TP into pyrokinesis? What happened to the Phoenix Force imbuing her with power? Shouldn't we have seen that?
Sorry. Rant over.

nebularain
2003-May-10, 07:41 PM
At the end of the movie, Professor X shared with Scott and Wolverine how Jean always felt like she was lagging behind everyone else because her powers were not developing as strong as everyone else's - or something like that. (Remember how her telepathic abilities were considered very weak in the first movie?) I am thinking the producers have made it such that being Phoenix was her true mutant power, but Phoenixes being what they are, she had to die for the power to be expressed in its true form.

'Course, I don't know how they will bring her back from being Dark Phoenix if they decide to go that route, which would be weird if they didn't.

Strange.

Mark Skarr
2003-May-10, 07:48 PM
I am thinking the producers have made it such that being Phoenix was her true mutant power, but Phoenixes being what they are, she had to die for the power to be expressed in its true form.

Okay, I'll buy that. Shades of Evolution. It just seems that they're trying to do too much in too little time for me. Don't get me wrong, I loved the movie. I also have the problem that the guy playing Scott is too young for Jean to be as old as she is.

g99
2003-May-10, 08:29 PM
I saw Hank and colossus too.


I missed Gambit in the movie. He was one of my favotie characters as a kid. The throwing cards and making any object explode was really cool to me. :-) He was origonally cast for the movie, but for some reason he was not in the movie. I guess he did not fit in thr plan.

I figure that the villans in the next movie are going to be juggernaught and Apocalypse. That will be a fight i want to see.


In the recent Origin of Wlverine comic it is shown Wolverine having bone claws as a kid. I have not read it, but i skimmed a few pages of it.

tracer
2003-May-11, 08:25 PM
The Wolverine-having-bone-claws-as-a-kid thing is a retcon.

Some years back, Magneto got really ticked off at Wolverine and magnetically yanked all of the adamantium out of his skeleton. (This was in the comics.) The strain on Wolverine's healing factor was so great that his fast-healing abilities "burned out" in the process of saving him. So, now, he had ordinary human healing and ordinary human bones.

Except, lo and behold, he accidentally discovered that he could still eject bone claws out of his wrists! (This was mega-painful the first time, for obvious reasons.)

This led to the notion that he'd "always" had claws, and that the lab experiments that had given him the adamantium-reinforced skeleton had simply turned his bone claws into adamantium claws rather than given him something he'd never had before.

Ba Witda
2003-May-14, 02:24 AM
Lady Deathstrike's father was the man who developed the process that gave Wolverine his adamantium skeleton. He was later killed by the Weapon X people, and she was understandably annoyed. She's had a grudge against all the adamantium infused people since, particularly Wolverine.

**Comic Spoilers**

















As for Sabretooth being Wolverine's brother, it's possible that they're half-brothers. In the Origin story, Wolverine is revealed to be a boy named James Howlett. His father, John Howlett Jr. has a gardener named Logan who looks suspiciously like a tall, thin version of Wolverine. Logan has a son named Dog. It's hinted that Logan might be James' real father. After Logan and Dog try to kill the Howletts (after being kicked out), John Jr. and Logan are dead and James' claws manifest for the first time. If Dog is Sabretooth, and Logan is James' father, then they are indeed half-brothers. And yes, this is all retcon, but at least it made for good reading.

Matherly
2003-May-15, 06:25 PM
Spoilers ahoy!























And the bad astronomy is at the very beginning the screen is filled with a field of stars. The perspective of the viewer moves through the star field. The stars are moving as if the viewer is moving through the stars! Oh, need I comment?! :roll:


Why couldn't something that can move at many times the speed of light ***coughcoughphoenixforcecoughcough*** perceve the stars this way?

And while I may be wrong, I don't think the irector was trying to say the Phoenix is Jean true power-level. I just think the Phoenix-force was taking over/taking her place/whatever it does at the moment of Jean's death, making it look like she died in a burst of flames.

nebularain
2003-May-15, 08:05 PM
Well, I based my assumption on:

a) the flames in her eyes when she used her powers
b) Prof. X's comments to Wolverine and Scott about how Jean felt like she was behind everyone in power.

The Curtmudgeon
2003-May-16, 06:48 AM
Well, about the cameos, some weren't played by actors :) Like the quick Hank McCoy shot, I also noticed names like Remy LeBeau and others on the list in the computer at Stryker's facility when Mystique is hacking...I do love the cameos, but I dont like the way the ages of certain characters dont jive with their comic-book counterparts...several of the characters are portrayed as much much younger in the movie than they are supposed to be.

Cinescape Movie News has a list of (most of) the "easter eggs" in X2, specifically Stryker's computer list of mutants and places, right here (http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Movies&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=&obj_id=38527).

As for the ages of the various characters, have a pity on people like me who were reading the X-Men comics back in the days long before Wolverine, Storm, etc. Seeing Bobby Drake, one of the original five X-Men, significantly younger than Scott and Jean, warps my brain every time I view either X-Men movie. Just for the fun of it, here's a real quick run down on X-Men roster history as best I can remember it--given that I stopped collecting/reading the comics around '95 so have nothing past that year.

Original X-Men (all later re-organised as X-Factor):

Scott Summers aka Cyclops (as per movies, basically)
Jean Grey aka Marvel Girl (telekinesis only at first, telepathy added later)
Hank McCoy aka Beast (super-athleticism, prehensile toes, above-human strength but not Thor/Superman level; also scientific genius, but that's human-normal genius, not mutant; later member of Avengers and blue-furry, but that was result of a mutagenic accident, not original)
Warren Worthington III aka Angel (angel-like wings, power of flight, lighter than normal skeleton but still strong enough to carry another person for short flights; founding member later of short-lived group Champions; later Archangel with artificial wings after original wings were severed)
Bobby Drake aka Iceman (generally used frozen body armour when in action, more intensive ice use than shown in movies; also started Champions with Angel)


Although Bobby was the youngest of the five, he was high-school age when the others were in college, so only about three or four years difference in age. The movies have moved him at least eight to ten years younger than Scott and Jean, by appearance at least, and perhaps more than that from Hank (alright, I'm guessing on that one brief shot of Hank on the TV).

Additional X-Men/"Guests" prior to Giant-Size X-Men #1

Pietro Maximoff aka Quicksilver (superspeed; originally with Magneto's original Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, but was coerced and eventually went straight; joined Avengers rather than X-Men, but occasionally hung out with the other mutants)
Wanda Maximoff aka Scarlet Witch ("witch-like" probability altering ability; like her brother Pietro was with Magneto originally then joined Avengers)
Calvin Rankin aka Mimic (could mimic other mutants powers, something like Rogue later but without necessary contact; able to mimic combinations, too--did all 5 original X-Men at once; off-and-on Non-Member-in-Good-Standing for a while)
Sean Cassidy aka Banshee (screamer, used sonic blasts both as weapon and to fly; also NMiGS for a while, joined with New X-Men below)
Shiro Yashido aka Sunfire (nuclear blasts + flight; likewise NMiGS, also joined with New X-Men below)
Alex Summers aka Havok (cosmic ray powered blasts; younger brother of Scott Summers/Cyclops; officially joined X-Men)
Lorna Dane aka Polaris (magnetic powers + green hair before it was stylish!; rumoured daughter of Magneto, but they went back and forth over that one so much I can't remember if she really was or not; officially joined X-Men)


The New X-Men (Giant-Size X-Men #1 & X-Men #93) [note new "international" flavour to group]

Sean Cassidy aka Banshee (see above) - Ireland
Shiro Yashido aka Sunfire (see above) - Japan
Logan aka Wolverine (as per movies; had appeared in a Hulk two-parter earlier but not X-Men; later shown to be precursor to Canada's Alpha Flight as Weapon Alpha) - Canada
Ororo Munro aka Storm (as per movies) - Egypt/Africa (yes, I know Egypt's in Africa, I mean both Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, as she was Egyptian/African-American by birth but spent most of her youth/young adult years as a "goddess" to an African tribe)
Peter Rasputin aka Colossus (as per X2 movie) - USSR (Russia)
Kurt Wagner aka Nightcrawler (as per X2 movie; later founding member of Excalibur) - Germany
John Proudstar aka Thunderbird (super speed + strength, but not much beyond human limits in either; killed in X-Men #94 after only two appearances) - Apache


Sometime around GSX #1/X #93 (slightly before, I think, but maybe not) Jean Grey dropped the 'Marvel Girl'--"girl" not being a good word in those early feminist days--and didn't bother with a "code name" until after the Phoenix incident which Nebularain has already detailed. When the real Jean was "resurrected" for X-Factor, she continued with just her real name.

Later Additions to the Group
With the real success of the group starting from the New X-Men, Marvel got solidly into the whole 'mutants galore' thing and new X-Men popped out of the woodwork on a semi-regular basis from then on; also, new spin-off teams were formed, and it became real hard to keep track of who was doing what with (or to) whom. But here's the ones I recall, anyway:

Kitty Pryde aka Sprite/Ariel/Shadowcat (non-material phase shifter--"walk through walls" and basically anything else as per X2 movie; moved from X-Men to New Mutants for a while, then back, then later founding member of Excalibur)
Rogue (real name never given in comics pre-95 that I remember; powers as per movie; originally part of Mystique's re-organised Brotherhood of Evil Mutants but joined X-Men as explained by Nebularain above)
Remy LeBeau aka Gambit (could use just about any small object, but usually cards, as projectile weapon)
Jubilee Wu (create small "time bomb" projectiles; used her real name; moved from X-Men to New Mutants with Shadowcat IIRC, then back)
Betsy Braddock aka Psylocke (telepath (lots of those running around the Marvel Universe); sister of Brian Braddock aka Captain Britain)
Forge (it's hard to describe him as anything other than "super-engineer": he could engineer a weapon or tool or whatever on the fly with just about anything to hand; no other name given that I can recall)


I may have missed a few, and I've deliberately omitted those that were New Mutants or X-Force but not X-Men (at least not up through '95 as stated). Magneto joined the X-Men temporarily, but I don't really consider him a member since both before and after he was their prototypical arch-enemy.

Note that the screaming girl in X2 movie but not mentioned in the credits must be Theresa Cassidy aka Siryn. She was Sean/Banshee's daughter, and inherited his screaming ability, but was in New Mutants not the X-Men. Only known case of a Marvel mutation "breeding true", although some other related mutants showed similar powers; more usual was Cyclops/Havok or Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch relationships with totally different mutations.

The (comics on the brain) Curtmudgeon (or his ghost passing through, anyway)

The Curtmudgeon
2003-May-16, 07:06 AM
Two things I noticed in the movies that were wrong, not just from a comics standpoint but even just from the movies themselves:


In X1, Ororo/Storm has a noticeable accent, although it's a bit hard to really identify it as to being African or maybe Caribbean; in X2 it's completely gone with no lingering trace.
In Wolverine's confrontation with Stryker during the attack on the X-Mansion, he stands there with evident wounds on his chest (below shoulders/collar bones on both sides) that do not heal up and disappear.


Anyone catch any others?

The (not that I'm picking nits) Curtmudgeon

nebularain
2003-May-16, 02:04 PM
Hey Curtmudgeon!

Missed having you around.

Good synopsis of characters. Three more I can think of:

Longshot - superhuman speed, agility and reflexes, alter all nearby probabilities to his advantage, scan objects for psionic imprints, throwing knives, grappling hooks (he also has hollow bones, and his mutant ability seems to be uncanny luck!)

Dazzler -
Real Name: Alison Blaire
Powers and Abilities: convert sonic vibrations into various forms of photovoltaic energy, including photon pulses, laser beams, hard-light holographic illusions, destructive force fields, light fog, hypnotic bursts of light, and levitation

Rachel Anne Summers - Daughter of Scott Summers and JEan Grey/Phoenix in an alternate future. Inherited the Phoenix abilities and went by the name Phoenix as well (In the whole scheme of things, she was Phoenix III - I didn't know there was a pre-Jean Phoenix before. Weird.).

Oh, and how could we forget Lockheed! -
Aliases: Dragon
Nationality: Broodworld
Powers and Abilities:
tiny dragon-like creature who can exhale high-temperature fire and has wings allowing him to fly

Matherly
2003-May-16, 03:51 PM
T
In X1, Ororo/Storm has a noticeable accent, although it's a bit hard to really identify it as to being African or maybe Caribbean; in X2 it's completely gone with no lingering trace.



THANK THE MAKER!!!!

Hally sounded like a bonafide git with that accent. Storm was actually watchable without it.

frenat
2003-May-16, 08:47 PM
If you go here
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/
in the menus on the left you can find a character glossary.

The Curtmudgeon
2003-May-19, 08:17 PM
T
In X1, Ororo/Storm has a noticeable accent, although it's a bit hard to really identify it as to being African or maybe Caribbean; in X2 it's completely gone with no lingering trace.



THANK THE MAKER!!!!

Hally sounded like a bonafide git with that accent. Storm was actually watchable without it.

I'm not going to argue the point, although her accent (while noticeable) didn't bother me that much--and after all, Storm should have an African accent. But having established it as obviously as they did in X1, I consider it a goof to drop it in a sequel that happens as soon after as X2 obviously does. Adults who move to a new country don't lose their accents that easily. They could have softened it somewhat and then phased it out by X3, which wouldn't have grated quite so much.

The (I'm a Texan, so I don't have an accent) Curtmudgeon

The Curtmudgeon
2003-May-19, 08:32 PM
Hey Curtmudgeon!

Missed having you around.

Thanx, Neb. I lurk through from time to time, but haven't had any reason to post recently.


Good synopsis of characters. Three more I can think of:

Longshot
Dazzler
Rachel Anne Summers

I (deliberately but mistakenly) left out Rachel/Phoenix because I was only remembering her in Excalibur, but you're right that I dropped the ball on the others. I remember Dazz primarily from her original solo book before she joined the X-Men, and that mainly stunk (albeit with a few--very few--bright spots in it) but she was somewhat better realised when they added her to the team later. Longshot really just never impressed me much--power-wise, he was only a repackaging of Scarlet Witch's probability-altering "hex" power (and Witchy had more control over her power; things just happened to and around Longshot), and the character and the background with Mojo and all that rot never impressed me.


Oh, and how could we forget Lockheed!

Puh-leez! Pets don't count. (That said, I did like Lockheed a lot, and thought he was a great addition to the book. But he's a pet, not an X-Man.) Remember his "girlfriend"?! :lol:

I did forget one other old (pre-New X-Men) X-Man, though--but justifiably, since he was only in the team for a short period and nobody knew it until long after he was dead. A previously-evil mutant named Changeling, who had a "chameleon" power somewhat like Mystique's later on, took Professor X's place and was killed. At the time, everybody on the team thought Xavier was really dead, and the book went on for sometime without him. It was only some issues later that it was revealed that Xavier had recruited Changeling to cover for him while he went into seclusion to prepare himself for challenging an invasion of Earth. (Obviously, what was happening in the real world was that the editors-that-be decided to kill off Professor X and then had to backtrack like Doyle did with Sherlock Holmes.)

The (X-historian) Curtmudgeon

The Curtmudgeon
2003-May-19, 08:55 PM
Jubilee Wu (create small "time bomb" projectiles; used her real name; moved from X-Men to New Mutants with Shadowcat IIRC, then back)

Woops, name confusion! Jubilee's real name was Jubilation Lee (being an Asian-American, she had picked an American name that she liked, even though it's not what would be considered an American name usually), and her codename was just a variant of that. I got the name confused with Julie Wu aka Wuju, from Jack Chalker's Midnight at the Well of Souls book and sequels.

The ("he reads too much--such men are dangerous", but mainly to themselves) Curtmudgeon

tracer
2003-May-20, 01:08 AM
Storm should have an African accent. But having established it as obviously as they did in X1, I consider it a goof to drop it in a sequel that happens as soon after as X2 obviously does.
Maybe she took the same crash-course in "Speaking American English without an accent" that Colossus did. ;)