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View Full Version : what was the situation before big bang & was our sun already exist during pre bigbang



suntrack2
2006-Oct-26, 03:43 PM
This question many times disturbed me and found unanswered.

so what was the exact situation before the big bang?
was there a dual entity in the space during this period?
or there was only a single entity was in the space called supernova,and later it bursted into pieces and big bang was happened? and whether our sun was already existsed before the big bang was happened?

gzhpcu
2006-Oct-26, 03:51 PM
According to the classical Big Bang theory, there was absolutely nothing before it: no energy, no matter, no space, no time. Then the Big Bang occured and was initially only energy. What triggered the BB is not known. (a quantum fluctuation?)
According to an M-theory based cosmology, two universes (ours and another), collided, causing the Big Bang. So there was pre-existing space (the universes, referred to as *branes" - from membrane) prior to the Big Bang. Our sun, of course only came into existence much after the Big Bang. A supernova, by the way, is a dying star which explodes.

Argos
2006-Oct-26, 03:52 PM
The short answer is that there was no situation. :)

Fazor
2006-Oct-26, 03:56 PM
That's quite a question.

Keep in mind, that the Big Bang theory is exactly that: a theory. Therefore I don't believe there's a definitive answer to your question; altho I am sure there's many different theories on that also.

But according to my understanding of the big bang: no, the sun didn't exist in the state that it currently is (i.e. a star). The elements of the sun certinaly would have existed, but probably in different forms. The sun, planets, and everything else, are all byproducts of the reaction.

Of course there's always a possibilty that we're all really inside a much larger beings snowglobe, and the big bang was actually him shaking us up. :) Sorry I'm a former animator and hence watch way too many cartoons.

Edit: wow two people beat me to the punch while i was typing this. Guess i need more coffee

NEOWatcher
2006-Oct-26, 04:13 PM
The short answer is that there was no situation. :)
Every theory falls apart if you go closer than the planck time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time)to the big bang.


nothing is known about the universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe) at time=0...One planck time after the event is the closest that theoretical physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_physics) can get us to it,

Argos
2006-Oct-26, 04:17 PM
Every theory falls apart if you go closer than the planck time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time)to the big bang.

Thatīs the long answer. :)

aurora
2006-Oct-26, 06:14 PM
But according to my understanding of the big bang: no, the sun didn't exist in the state that it currently is (i.e. a star). The elements of the sun certinaly would have existed, but probably in different forms. The sun, planets, and everything else, are all byproducts of the reaction.
]

Actually, our Sun is a second generation star. All the elements heavier than hydrogen were made in stars.

So the elements that make up our solar system did not exist when the Big Bang started.

Our Solar System is a by product of previous Stars that ejected material via some type(s) of nova.

Fazor
2006-Oct-26, 06:19 PM
Actually, our Sun is a second generation star. All the elements heavier than hydrogen were made in stars.

So the elements that make up our solar system did not exist when the Big Bang started.

Our Solar System is a by product of previous Stars that ejected material via some type(s) of nova.

But the elements that made up the elements which made up the previous star existed. can keep going back as far as you like but what i meant was the recipe if you will was there, but not the actual object.

astromark
2006-Oct-26, 06:39 PM
Second generation star and, discussions about elements heavier than hydrogen are not what this question asks.
Suntrack2 is not a cosmologist. Forget the complicated. Argos was right.
Don't think of the Big Bang as a explosion. The very form of matter changed.
Before it there was nothing. After it the great expansion began. We are part of that. Our sun is only 4.5 billion years old. The universe is over 13.7 billion years old. So no it was not there at the outset. Born out of the matter of exploding stars they tell us. Your question has much unanswered aspects.
Years of study and a good general knowledge will not answer this riddle completely.

Dragon Star
2006-Oct-26, 07:15 PM
According to an M-theory based cosmology, two universes (ours and another), collided, causing the Big Bang.

Wait, what?

You mean 2 seperate universes, not ours. Ours was created from the forces of the colision, before that it didn't exist.

Right?

gzhpcu
2006-Oct-26, 07:37 PM
Wait, what?

You mean 2 seperate universes, not ours. Ours was created from the forces of the colision, before that it didn't exist.

Right?

According to the http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/~steinh/npr/ (http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/%7Esteinh/npr/) ekyprotic universe, two branes, one of which was our universe (but for all practical purposes empty), and are very close to each other (in a 4th spatial dimension), periodically come together, collide (causing a Big Bang which populates our universe), separate, then collide again, infinitely in cycles of trillions of years.

Fazor
2006-Oct-26, 07:45 PM
According to the http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/~steinh/npr/ (http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/%7Esteinh/npr/) ekyprotic universe, two branes, one of which was our universe (but for all practical purposes empty), and are very close to each other (in a 4th spatial dimension), periodically come together, collide (causing a Big Bang which populates our universe), separate, then collide again, infinitely in cycles of trillions of years.

That's all fine and good, but is there any evidence of this other universe? Sorry not trying to sound condesending, guess I should say I'm just curious to what this evidence is.

Dragon Star
2006-Oct-26, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the clarification gzhpcu, because if that's right I certainly had my facts wrong...:)

Cougar
2006-Oct-26, 08:43 PM
Suntrack2 is not a cosmologist. Forget the complicated. Argos was right.You're right about that.

Before it there was nothing.
Well, we don't even know that. Work on a "pre big bang cosmology" (http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9907067) has been going on for quite a while. And these guys aren't just kooks.


After it the great expansion began. We are part of that. Our sun is only 4.5 billion years old. The universe is over 13.7 billion years old.
Right. All this we're pretty sure about.


So no [our Sun] was not there at the outset...
I would say that's correct, but Fazor is technically right that the elementary particles (protons, neutrons, electrons) that are now in the Sun were in existence at the beginning (Well, heh, not the very beginning when there were still free quarks and gluons.)

gzhpcu
2006-Oct-27, 05:48 AM
That's all fine and good, but is there any evidence of this other universe? Sorry not trying to sound condesending, guess I should say I'm just curious to what this evidence is.

There is about as much evidence for this as there is for the existence of the extra dimensions in string theory, which is to say, none at the moment. I suppose it is just a proposal of a way to get around the problem presented by the singularity at t=0.

dirty_g
2006-Oct-28, 10:25 AM
There is no big bang. your life is in a huge teleivision studio and everyone is a paid actor who comes in and out of your life! ESCAPE WHILST YOU STILL CAN! AGHHH!!

Oh before the big bang?? God did it?? Good a theory as any!