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View Full Version : X-prize anyone?



Sever
2003-May-11, 03:25 AM
Would anyone be interested in forming a team? my idea is a jet/rocket that would convert the air into LOX then at 50 miles would detach a smaller shuttle like craft( protected by a areo-gel based plastic heat sheild) coast to a alltidude of 63 miles and land on a normal runway with the booster (which had landed like a airplane earlier)
Anyone think I shold pherhaps follow up on this idea?
P.S I am 13 and i think u guys rock!
8) 8) 8) :) :)

Pinemarten
2003-May-11, 05:00 AM
The theory is sound, but our technology isn't yet capable of converting atmospheric O2 to LOX without adding 'lots' of weight.

By the way, welcome to the board.

Colt
2003-May-11, 06:39 AM
You would not need to convert it to LOX, just use a scramjet (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=scramjet) much more simple and light. -Colt

Pinemarten
2003-May-11, 07:03 AM
I have heard of the scramjet, but are there any research/funding/sites with recent developements?

planethollywood
2003-May-11, 11:05 AM
blow me down, NASA has a SR-71! What other military craft do they operate then?

Tuckerfan
2003-May-11, 01:40 PM
blow me down, NASA has a SR-71! What other military craft do they operate then?We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you. :wink: IIRC, they also have a U2 for atmospheric monitoring. Many military aircraft were designed using NASA's help, so they've probably got a bunch of different kinds laying around someplace. The astronauts all fly T-38s, which are military training jets. NASA also can call on military aircraft at any time they want, so while they may not have a bunch that they own, they can get a "rental" any time they want it.

BigJim
2003-May-11, 02:35 PM
I didn't know that NASA had an SR-71 - but they are ramjet powered, not scramjets. They also possess two experimental YF-23s - the aircraft that was beaten by the F-22 for the ATF contract.

kilopi
2003-May-11, 04:14 PM
I didn't know that NASA had an SR-71 - but they are ramjet powered, not scramjets.
Colt's links (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=SR-71%20Blackbird) say they're turbojets. Just don't click on the link for "mammoth" engines. :) At higher speeds they act as ramjets (http://www.aircraftenginedesign.com/abe_right4.html).

BigJim
2003-May-11, 04:17 PM
Don't all ramjets act as turbojets at low speeds and ramjets at high speeds?

(BTW- who here has seen a real SR-71? I did in Tucson, AZ)

kilopi
2003-May-11, 04:25 PM
"At subsonic velocities, the ramjet is inefficient and, in order to start the ramjet, air at a relatively high velocity must enter the inlet." (http://www.aircraftenginedesign.com/abe_right4.html)

PS: O yeh, I did see one, at work one day. It hobbled into Buckley outside of Denver, and we took the afternoon off to check it out. It was leaking into its drippan. Someone stepped over the low rope around it to get a better picture and the guards were at him instantly.

I was with a guy who'd been a mechanic on the SR-71 when he was in the service. One of my other co-workers seemed to be pretty much expert as well. The SR-71 had been in the shop for two days, and was getting ready to take off. We were only a couple hundred yards away.

It took off to the south, and came around overhead. Impressive. Then it made a wide loop, barely visible, and came around again, low overhead, and blasted up as it passed over. Awesome.

Sever
2003-May-11, 05:02 PM
Well as long as the device can produce enough LOX and thrust the weight might not manner(did any read the may issue of pop science look at the shuttle repalcements under gryphon)
P.S Von disrafts idea won't work I mean a blast wave plusejet what is that? not to mention no website :lol: :lol: . but thats not as bad as microspaces they don't know waht their getting into someone(if they trry to fly it they will die)
:cry: :cry:

Sever
2003-May-11, 05:39 PM
The areo-gel based heat sheild i mean it would weight less and offer alot o protection too any faults their.

Donnie B.
2003-May-11, 09:57 PM
The areo-gel based heat sheild i mean it would weight less and offer alot o protection too any faults their.
An aerogel should provide a very good, lightweight insulator, but I don't know if they can do the whole job of a heat shield.

The shield has to dissipate a lot of energy -- basically, the entire kinetic energy of the spacecraft. Traditional ablative heat shields do this by melting and letting that superheated material blow away, carrying the heat energy with it. The shuttle tiles do it by getting hot and storing the energy (that portion which is not carried off by the superheated air), then releasing it slowly.

I don't think an aerogel would contain enough material to act as an ablative shield -- it would ablate away too quickly. Perhaps the right material could work like the shuttle tiles, but I'd be concerned that it wouldn't have the necessary mechanical integrity to withstand the reentry forces. After all, the shuttle tiles just barely do...

Now, I would certainly think an aerogel might be very useful as a component of a heat shield system, and maybe for other insulation as well.

Colt
2003-May-11, 10:17 PM
Don't all ramjets act as turbojets at low speeds and ramjets at high speeds?

(BTW- who here has seen a real SR-71? I did in Tucson, AZ)

Heh, you're all not toing to believe this. I have touched an SR-71, a U2 and some other military craft (Blackhawk, various jets, etc). I spent a summer at Moffett airfield in Mountain View, California with my Aunt's family.. And guess what is on Moffett? Ames Research Center (http://www.arc.nasa.gov/). It was awesome, in one tour ( I took the tour at least seven times) they had the door of The Windtunnel open and I think they were testing a component for some sort of tilting jet aircraft (Like the Osprey but with jets) I dont' remember that very clearly but it was huge and awesome. The tour always went around the wintunnel, past the air intake grill. You could tell that wind was being sucked in when you could hear the air whiffling past you on a perfectly calm day. One time they had some sort of converted passenger jet with a telescope (maybe xray?) mounted in it. *runs to his room to dig out stuff he thought he would never use again* I was wondering around the place so much that I made friends (for an 11 year old, anyone who talks to them is a friend) with the Tour Program Manager there, Pamela Davoren (I have her business card). I drew some stuff and my Aunt (who is a very determined woman) somehow got me a meeting with an engineer there. I have his card around here too somewhere, his name was something like "Halman".. My meeting with him when I tried to explain my very simplistic, and unrealistic, drawings made me realize how much I was missing and what an aircraft required. It really got me going on trying to make realistic schematics of things and explain how they work.

I just found an "Offical Guide" for Ames which I hae never looked at before. On the map of the facility it shows a large plane and labels it the "Kuiper Airborne Observatory" perhaps that is what I saw. Also, they have a picture of a test of the AX-5 Spacesuit which I think I saw a model of. Apparently, by looking at a picture, the U-2s that they operate are called ER-2 Earth Resource Aircraft. I also saw the "Air Force Satellite Control Facility" or the Blue Cube while I was there

Another feature of the base is the giant airship hangar which was built for the U.S.S. Macon airship. That structure is truly awe-inspiring. There is a little museum in built into the side of it which I frequented, they had a toy (I know now it is a collectors item) of the Pogostick experimental aircraft.

The Germans used ramjets on their V1 flying bomb, and those were just launched off of a gravity-operated sled catapult. -Colt

Dickenmeyer
2003-May-12, 04:25 AM
I didn't know that NASA had an SR-71 - but they are ramjet powered, not scramjets. They also possess two experimental YF-23s - the aircraft that was beaten by the F-22 for the ATF contract.
The key word is "had", the SR-71s are all retired now, the last one is going to an air museum (in Michigan, I think). This according to an article on military museums in last Sunday's paper (check local listings).