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AstroMike
2002-Jan-26, 07:14 PM
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/chirbase.htm

Silas
2002-Jan-27, 02:02 AM
Aww! That's cute!

Hey, frankly, I hope they make it!
*Any* human presence in space is better than none, and, besides, it would spur us back into the competition!

Silas

Simon
2002-Jan-27, 11:32 AM
My thoughts exactly, more power to them!

moonbuggy
2002-Jan-27, 09:54 PM
I'm just afraid that the HBs will use the pictures on that site to prove how easy it is to fake pictures of men on the moon. But wait... see the flag? It isn't rippling in the breeze so maybe they actually have been there already! ;^)

Peter

Doodler
2002-Sep-19, 06:18 PM
Call me crazy, but supporting China in its quest for the moon is not something I'm up for. To see a ruthless, inhuman government like theirs up there scares the bejeesus out of me. The idea of "any human presence is better than none at all" is dangerously naive. I look at them the way America used to look at the Soviets, they are the enemy. If we let them have unmonitored access to the moon, they will claim it as their own and defend it as such. Doubt me? Ask a Tibetan sometime... I agree on the second point though, let's just hope this does get us interested in getting back there, ASAP. Sorry to be the one to drag politics into this, but then, politics put us there in the first place.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Doodler on 2002-09-19 14:22 ]</font>

Jigsaw
2002-Sep-19, 06:50 PM
Er, read the fine print, Doodler.

These seemed to be the dreams of academics rather than a definite funded programme...

< snip >

There was no funding for lunar projects in the ten-year space plan approved in 2001. By July 2001 a Chinese aerospace magazine indicated that Chinese scientists had drafted a much more modest four-phase long term plan.

Phase 1, by 2005: Lunar flyby or orbiting satellite missions, perhaps using the DFH-3 bus.

Phase 2, by 2010: unmanned soft-landing missions.

Phase 3, by 2020: Robotic exploration using surface rovers

Phase 4, by 2030: Lunar sample return missions.

Only after 2030 would manned flights and construction of a lunar base begin. Also, look at the kind of thing that's going on.

May 20. Go.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/1997747.stm

Monday, 20 May, 2002, 16:00 GMT 17:00 UK
China sets date for the Moon

China says it is planning to establish a base on the Moon to exploit its mineral resources.

Beijing has not yet put a human into space, but scientists say they expect to do so within three years and they have outlined an ambitious programme for the future.

A chief scientist with China's Moon exploration programme, Ouyang Ziyuan, said that the country was planning to launch its first mission to the Moon in 2010.

He reportedly told the Beijing Morning Post: "Our long-term goal is to set up a base on the Moon and mine its riches for the benefit of humanity."
May 21. No go.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/2000506.stm

Tuesday, 21 May, 2002, 14:48 GMT 15:48 UK
China denies manned Moon mission plans

China will not be launching a manned mission to the Moon in the foreseeable future, according to Ouyang Ziyuan, chief scientist of China's Moon exploration programme.
In an exclusive interview with BBC News Online he said he wanted to clarify news reports in the Chinese media that Beijing would be putting a man on the Moon by 2010 with the establishment of a Moonbase soon afterwards.

"We will explore the Moon certainly," he said from his office in Beijing, "but with unmanned spacecraft."
It's all about the Chinese space program's internal politics--Political Animal #1, for reasons of his own, makes a statement saying Yes, absolutely, China's going to the moon, and the next day, Political Animal #2, for reasons of his own, makes a statement saying, basically, P.A. #1 is a total idiot.

I wouldn't want to be a politician in China for, literally, all the tea they got over there.

So I wouldn't go home and start cleanin' your light sabers gettin' ready for the First Interplanetary War just yet... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


originally posted by Doodler:
Call me crazy, but supporting China in its quest for the moon is not something I'm up for. To see a ruthless, inhuman government like theirs up there scares the bejeesus out of me. The idea of "any human presence is better than none at all" is dangerously naive. I look at them the way America used to look at the Soviets, they are the enemy. If we let them have unmonitored access to the moon, they will claim it as their own and defend it as such. Doubt me? Ask a Tibetan sometime...Here at the BABB we like to think that Mankind Is One, that we are all kindred spirits in pursuit of scientific knowledge and understanding. Hence, statements like "China is the enemy" don't go over very well here. If you want to make statements like that, please go do it somewhere else. Here, I can assure you that we're all actively rooting for the Chinese to get as many rockets to the moon as they can, because to us, the important thing is that "Humanity" do this thing, not that "American Humans" do it, or that "Chinese Humans" not do it.

I bet we'd even root for Saddam Hussein, if he had a space program. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif Whaddaya think, guys? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jigsaw on 2002-09-19 15:01 ]</font>

DaveC
2002-Sep-19, 07:11 PM
On 2002-09-19 14:50, Jigsaw wrote:
I bet we'd even root for Saddam Hussein, if he had a space program. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif Whaddaya think, guys? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Well, maybe not Saddam Hussein! Based on what he's shown the world so far, he'd be much more likely to misuse space exploration capacity than China.

And I do agree that scientific advancement by humans, regardless of nationality is a good thing. It's the "us guys vs you guys" attitude that results in science being perverted for war. On the other hand, how advanced would our science be if it weren't for war and military expenditures.

China is the enemy???????? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif

Jigsaw
2002-Sep-19, 07:18 PM
Some enemy. I just went down to Kroger and bought a huge box of frozen pollack for 99 cents a pound, "Product of China".

We are definitely all friends now. Can't declare war on them 'cause we gotta have that cheap frozen fish. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

DaveC
2002-Sep-19, 07:24 PM
On 2002-09-19 15:18, Jigsaw wrote:
Some enemy. I just went down to Kroger and bought a huge box of frozen pollack for 99 cents a pound, "Product of China".

We are definitely all friends now. Can't declare war on them 'cause we gotta have that cheap frozen fish. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


I'm in Canada - we've been "friends" with China for a long time (to the chagrin of a succession of U.S. administrations). I've been eating that cheap Chinese pollack since I was a kid. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Jigsaw
2002-Sep-19, 07:30 PM
Well, huh. I didn't know that--here it has always come in small 1-pound frozen rectangular blocks, usually about $2.50 to $3.00 a pound, "Product of Alaska". So either this is a big product switch for Kroger, or it was one heckuva loss leader.


Sorry, we're supposed to be talking about astronomy, aren't we? Not groceries. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Okay, well, carry on--"The Chinese space program..."

Doodler
2002-Sep-19, 07:32 PM
I will concede that my statement about China as an enemy may be pushing the wrong button (no Cold War pun intended), please forgive my tone. But the nature of the Politcal Animal, as you call it, cannot be ignored. We've seen here in the US how politics affects space science, from the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo race against to the pressure put on by the Reagan administration that was ultimately responsible for the launch of Challenger on her last flight, to the budget butchery inflicted on the ISS. Politics and space programs are bedfellows of inconvenience. I meant my post as a commentary on the politics that I believe will guide the Chinese space program. If I offended I apologize.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Doodler on 2002-09-19 15:48 ]</font>

DaveC
2002-Sep-19, 08:57 PM
No apology necessary, Doodler. I'm not a big fan of totalinarianism, but I do look at China with a certain degree of admiration for how far it has come in the past 50 years. And yes, they had Tiananmen (America had Kent State) and human rights aren't viewed the same way there as in the west. But the country has an amazing history (including the invention of rocketry) and has been a reliable and steady trading partner with Canada for forty years. I don't see an enemy when I look at China - I see a developing country struggling to take its rightful place in the world economy, and to throw off the last shackles of colonialism and, when the economics are right, communism.

More power to 'em if they develop a space program. In a world where American military spending becomes large enough to force a "Pax Americana" on the world, maybe we should be delighted that other nations will have the will and the resources to undertake space exploration that the US can no longer afford on its own.

Launch window
2005-Dec-18, 11:36 PM
Aww! That's cute!

Hey, frankly, I hope they make it!
*Any* human presence in space is better than none, and, besides, it would spur us back into the competition!

Silas
China will begin an effort to send astronauts to the moon in about 2017, with a landing some time after that, official media said Wednesday, citing a senior official of the lunar probe program.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/ap_on_sc/china_space

The moon landing would cap a lunar program begun in 2004 with the launch of a probe. In October, China launched its second manned space flight, a successful five-day mission.

The Xinhua News Agency quoted Ouyang Ziyuan, the lunar program's chief scientist, as saying unmanned lunar probes will be ramped up in three stages until about 2017, when the manned program will begin.
The report did not indicate when a manned lunar landing might be accomplished.
According to Ouyang and other Chinese space officials, an effort to launch lunar orbiting satellites will be supplanted in 2007 by a program aimed at accomplishing an unmanned lunar landing.
A program to return unmanned space vehicles from the moon will begin in 2012 and last for five years, until the manned program gets underway, Xinhua quoted the officials as saying.

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=3860
China plans Moon exploration - more news

Monique
2005-Dec-19, 12:53 AM
All your bases are belong to us :)

wayneee
2005-Dec-19, 02:27 AM
Well you need to crawl before you run. I will take them seriously after they successfully do something. Talk and pretty pictures are one thing.

X-COM
2005-Dec-19, 02:34 AM
I hope they do it. Manned space exploration has slowed to a crawl due to lack of competiton. And without manned explorations we are nothing but a bunch of losers locked in at the surface of a doomed planet. It is time to move out to new frontiers, not just sit here on our fat asses waiting for something that wont happen as long as we do nothing but dream. I therefore no longer consider low earth orbit as "space", it is "the outer atmosphere" (there even some air resistance to slow down orbiting satelittes causeing them to loose altitude). The point of this is that I do no longer consider people that merely goes to low earth orbit as "astronauts", you need to get further out for that. You need to reach the real space. Space is what you are traveling in when the earth are apperantly shrinking behind you. The chineese are temporarily excluded from this judgement because they still show ambiton, their space program has simply not had the time to develop further. In time it will.

By the way, I don't consider and object to be a spaceship unless it is manned, so unmanned probes that are sent out into the solar system should not be called that. A "spacecraft" may be unmanned but should be of an significant size so don't use this term for something that could fit on a pickup truck. A spacecraft, can load a pickup truck into it's cargo bay however.

I hope the chineese do shame the rest of the world for their lazyness, we do need that kick in the butt, badly. So put away that donut and start building those REAL spaceships and let get going, we have an whole solar system to explore and and plenty of space beyond that for our decendants.

AGN Fuel
2005-Dec-19, 02:50 AM
Well you need to crawl before you run. I will take them seriously after they successfully do something. Talk and pretty pictures are one thing.

Well, respect where due - the Chinese now have two successful manned spaceflights to their credit. A long way shy of a lunar mission, I admit, but it's certainly a start.

Monique
2005-Dec-19, 02:54 AM
Call me crazy, but supporting China in its quest for the moon is not something I'm up for. To see a ruthless, inhuman government like theirs up there scares the bejeesus out of me. The idea of "any human presence is better than none at all" is dangerously naive. I look at them the way America used to look at the Soviets, they are the enemy. If we let them have unmonitored access to the moon, they will claim it as their own and defend it as such. Doubt me? Ask a Tibetan sometime... I agree on the second point though, let's just hope this does get us interested in getting back there, ASAP. Sorry to be the one to drag politics into this, but then, politics put us there in the first place.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Doodler on 2002-09-19 14:22 ]</font>
Perhaps nations with "human governments" make time to quest for moon. If do not like, compete for goal.

PhantomWolf
2005-Dec-19, 10:17 AM
well they have 11 years and 2 manned missions. The US had 9 years and 0 manned missions. ;)

Lianachan
2005-Dec-19, 10:27 AM
I fully support the Chinese in this, and good for them for deciding to do it in the first place.

I just hope they don't spot the secret Scottish bases on the far side.

:shhh:

R.A.F.
2005-Dec-19, 10:55 AM
The US had 9 years and 0 manned missions. ;)

Shouldn't that be 6 years? The Apollo program ended in 1972. The Apollo/Soyuz test project was in 1975, and the first Shuttle was launched in 1981.

PhantomWolf
2005-Dec-19, 11:41 AM
No, 9 years. Apollo was announced in July, 1960, and Apollo 11 landed in July, 1969. That's nine years. Their first Manned Space Flight was May 5th, 1961, so at the time of the Apollo announcement they still had a total of zero manned space flights.

China has had two space manned spaceflights and isn't planning to land for at least 11 years, so the US landed on the moon in a shorter time period with less manned flights acomplished than the Chinese currently have and plan for.

R.A.F.
2005-Dec-19, 12:19 PM
OK...I see what you are mean now. I had a "feeling" I was misunderstanding you...:)

Heid the Ba'
2005-Dec-19, 12:38 PM
Go PRC! I don't care who does it as long as someone does. I don't necessarily distrust their government any more than my own, or anyone else's.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Dec-19, 01:36 PM
I wonder if the new space colonies will carry religion with them? What religion are the Chinese?:think:

Lianachan
2005-Dec-19, 01:43 PM
I wonder if the new space colonies will carry religion with them? What religion are the Chinese?:think:
Pretty much all major religions are there to some extent, plus others.

Religion in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_%28Religion%29)

Jakenorrish
2005-Dec-19, 02:05 PM
Good for the Chinese.

One of my favourite memories of the space race was how the politicians were at loggerheads, but the scientists by comparison co-operated when necessary. I hope the Americans and Chinese can co-operate further as if (shock horror!) they pooled their resources, the moon will have bases on it a lot sooner. It will be for the good of science and ultimately the world if this dream could be realised.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Dec-19, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the link Lianachan.
'Many Chinese belief systems have concepts of a sacred and sometimes spiritual world yet do not invoke a concept of God.'

They have been very innovative in the past. I expect the Chinese will be a powerful space race.

Lianachan
2005-Dec-20, 08:25 AM
Thanks for the link Lianachan.
'Many Chinese belief systems have concepts of a sacred and sometimes spiritual world yet do not invoke a concept of God.'

They have been very innovative in the past. I expect the Chinese will be a powerful space race.
You're welcome. Yes, I also expect the Chinese will do well in space. After centuries of exclusion, they're an emerging military and (especially) economic superpower.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Dec-20, 10:04 AM
If China and Russia were to hook up and share resources....phew.

They could invent a new working language, Rinese or Chussian.

suntrack2
2005-Dec-20, 05:08 PM
:)

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Dec-21, 12:53 PM
stray 'd'

publiusr
2005-Dec-21, 09:31 PM
They have delayed their new Long March. Here is hoping they adopt Yangal's R-56 monoblock instead.

Launch window
2006-Mar-05, 05:10 PM
another delay on Shenzhou


China will postpone the launch of its third manned space mission Shenzhou-7 spacecraft for about half a year to 2008, a senior consultant to the country's space program said here Saturday.

&nbsp; "There is nothing wrong. We just need more time to prepare for the mission," said Huang Chunping, chief consultant for China's manned launching vehicle system, in an exclusive interview with Xinhua.

Tang Xianming, director of the China Manned Space Engineering Office, announced last year that the next manned mission would take place in 2007 and would include a spacewalk.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-03/04/content_4257886.htm
The timetable depends on when researchers can tackle the key problem of the space suit, which will play a critical role in the anticipated space mission that includes a one-man space walking, said Huang, a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).

Huang, commander-in-chief of the rocket system for Shenzhou-5, China's first manned mission, is in Beijing attending CPPCC National Committee's annual session, which started on Friday afternoon and will last about ten days till March 13.

Manchurian Taikonaut
2006-Jun-21, 03:40 PM
You're welcome. Yes, I also expect the Chinese will do well in space. After centuries of exclusion, they're an emerging military and (especially) economic superpower.

China: moon landing planned for 2024

CLICK HERE (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/19/china_lunar_plans/)

Long Lehao, deputy chief architect of the lunar probing project, told Hong Kong newspaper Wen Wei Po that the country "possesses the technology, materials and the economic strength" to put a man on the moon.
In earlier reports, Chinese media reported manned missions were being planned for 2017, which was then stage three of the project. However, it now seems China's space programme has four stages, culminating in the manned lunar mission

publiusr
2006-Jun-28, 04:32 PM
Wasn't a Russian scientist in trouble for giving some secrets to China? Sadly the Treasury lloks to have frozen China's assets--according to the latest ish of AV Week & Space.

homo_cosmosicus
2006-Jun-29, 02:36 AM
China: moon landing planned for 2024

In earlier reports, Chinese media reported manned missions were being planned for 2017...

Shortly after Chinese media reported manned missions planed for 2017,
Bushies administration announced return to the Moon on - 2016!

That just shows how weak US space innitiative is, if we need somebody
from outside to make us go to the space...
We as a nation can't find inner strenght, but we depend on outside competition
in order to move here or there... thats not good in long run.

This applies not only to the space exploration, but to the almost every aspect
of US life, especially with our dependency on foreign oil.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jun-29, 04:28 AM
Shortly after Chinese media reported manned missions planed for 2017,
Bushies administration announced return to the Moon on - 2016!

That just shows how weak US space innitiative is, if we need somebody
from outside to make us go to the space...
We as a nation can't find inner strenght, but we depend on outside competition
in order to move here or there... thats not good in long run.

This is probably one of the few things you have said on this board I agree with, but unfortunately that is the way of things. Regan attempted to raise interest in returning to the Moon in around 1985, but the idea fell flat. For the US to get to the moon again it's going to take the same thing as the first time, an interested public willing to back it, and competition seems to be something to actually increase public interest. Unfortunately when that competition is finally won (or lost) the public then lose interest quickly, hence the fate of Apollo.

homo_cosmosicus
2006-Jun-29, 05:38 AM
I just noticed something...

WHY IS THIS TOPIC IN "CONSPIRACY THEORIES" FORUM???




Regan attempted to raise interest in returning to the Moon in around 1985,
but the idea fell flat. For the US to get to the moon again it's going to take
the same thing as the first time, an interested public willing to back it

There is no "return" to the Moon, it will be first time landing of humans on the Moon.

Regan attempted... well, I won't write more about it here, because
the topic is about Chinese going to the Moon, probably they will be the first
to land a human being to our natural satellite for the first time in
known history of this planet.

Van Rijn
2006-Jun-29, 06:06 AM
I just noticed something...

WHY IS THIS TOPIC IN "CONSPIRACY THEORIES" FORUM???


Looks like it was "Grandfathered" in from the BABB. The first posts date back to 2002. BAUT was formed from the older UT and BABB forums, and there was a lot of thread shuffling.



There is no "return" to the Moon, it will be first time landing of humans on the Moon.


If that's what you think, please present your technical arguments to support your position. Mind, I'd be very surprised if you actually had anything new, beyond the faulty arguments I've heard way too many times.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jun-29, 07:23 AM
There is no "return" to the Moon, it will be first time landing of humans on the Moon.

You're welcome to start proving that whenever you want.

sts60
2006-Jun-29, 10:17 AM
There is no "return" to the Moon, it will be first time landing of humans on the Moon.

You have already expressed your opinion. There is a thread here waiting for you to back it up with specific, and where appropriate quantitative, arguments.

Repeating your opinion is not the same as backing it up.

Regan attempted... well, I won't write more about it here, because the topic is about Chinese going to the Moon, probably they will be the first to land a human being to our natural satellite for the first time in known history of this planet.

You might start by explaining exactly what would enable the Chinese to do this that could not be done by Apollo. (Hint: arguments like "they have better technology now!" are useless handwaving.)

Murff
2006-Jun-29, 11:57 PM
"(Hint: arguments like "they have better technology now!" are useless handwaving.)"

Why didn't the U.S go to the moon in 1935? :shhh:





DISCLAIMER: I believe the U.S. put men on the moon. I'm not some Hoax nut-job.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-30, 12:15 AM
"(Hint: arguments like "they have better technology now!" are useless handwaving.)"

Why didn't the U.S go to the moon in 1935? :shhh:





DISCLAIMER: I believe the U.S. put men on the moon. I'm not some Hoax nut-job.

I think the point was that you have to be specific about what's "better" about the technology. For example, in 1935, I'm pretty sure they didn't have solid-fuel rockets, mylar, or people with the kind of piloting experience of the Apollo astronauts.

PhantomWolf
2006-Jun-30, 01:07 AM
Why didn't the U.S go to the moon in 1935?

Because they didn't want to pay rent to the Nazi's (http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/moonger.html). ;)

Launch window
2015-Aug-11, 02:34 PM
I think this one is no longer a conspiracy
http://www.sciencerecorder.com/news/2015/07/21/china-plans-mission-far-side-moon/