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Sticks
2007-Mar-05, 02:14 PM
Sorry if this is now in the wrong place, but I wanted to see how you deal with a generic argument that CT's employ, (which my own brother employs on one CT he has bought into)

The argument for what ever CT you can think of, be it space or non space, is that there are so many people talking about said CT, there must be something in it.

:eh:

:wall:

peter eldergill
2007-Mar-05, 02:43 PM
Sounds like a rumour mill to me, then

Pete

tofu
2007-Mar-05, 02:48 PM
There are so many people taking about religion A that there must be something in it.

But wait! There are so many people talking about religion B that there must be something in it.

But wait! Religion A and religion B are mutually exclusive. They cannot both be right. Thus, for at least one of the religions, the following statement must be true:

There are many people talking about it, and yet there is nothing to it.

JayUtah
2007-Mar-05, 03:03 PM
There are so many people talking about Topic A, someone must be making money off of it.

Jason Thompson
2007-Mar-05, 03:29 PM
There is indeed something in it. The something is usually a misunderstanding or ignorance of the appropriate principles required to draw defensible conclusions.

sts60
2007-Mar-05, 04:00 PM
A lot of people think the Sun goes around the Earth. So there's a good chance it really does, right?

Nicolas
2007-Mar-05, 05:51 PM
The only thing inthere is an argumentum ad populum.

Make any claim that is extreme yet popular enough (alien brain control implants found in astronaut out of control, government covers up as love drama, thgouh that might be a bit overly extreme :)), and you will have some people sticking onto it, if only for the attention. That does indicate it intrigues people, but doesn't indicate anything about it's validity.

If it would, the more popular a movie would be, the closer to reality it would be. Welcome Master Frodo, have a Big Mac!

Laguna
2007-Mar-05, 05:58 PM
There are a lot of people that say, this thread is not astronomy related...

Serenitude
2007-Mar-05, 05:59 PM
It's the Apeal to Belief. It is discussed here:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-belief.html

Also, relay "three men make a tiger":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_men_make_a_tiger

Ask if enough people believe he is a rapist, would that hence make it true?

Svector
2007-Mar-05, 06:04 PM
A lot of people think the Sun goes around the Earth. So there's a good chance it really does, right?

Wait, you're saying it doesn't?

:eek:

Laguna
2007-Mar-05, 06:08 PM
Wait, you're saying it doesn't?

:eek:
Nah, he would never do so as he could not prove it. :D

Occam
2007-Mar-06, 01:01 AM
The argument does work, though - but not necessarily in their favour.

A lot of people are talking about Joe Rogan's opinions, too, so there must be something in what he's saying.

Indeed, there is something in what he's saying.

The real question is, however, what is that "something"?

If 30% of the population believed that the moon landings were faked, that would most definitely prove something.... but what does it prove if (as is the case) it can be shown beyond any logical doubt that they were not faked? Possibly it proves that 30% of the population do not have the necessary powers of critical thought to separate factual evidence from utter nonsense.

Throughout history and particularly the 20th century, people have been seeing strange "craft" in the skies. People from all walks of life, including police officers, military personnel, pilots and academics have testified that they have seen these things. There is, without a doubt, "something in it".
But what is it? It is certainly not proof that alien spacecraft are in our skies any more than it is proof that these people are all deluded. All that can really be said is that those people saw something that they considered unusual. What they BELIEVE they saw is not proof of anything other than what they believe. Proof is another ball-game entirely from belief.

There are about 2.1 billion people in this world who apparently believe in a god who sent his son to Earth to absolve our sins. Is that proof that god exists? Of course not

Unfortunately we now live in a society that has blurred the lines between fact and fiction - where newspapers can print headlines that scream "600lb WOMAN GIVES BIRTH TO DEVIL BABY", blatant political lies are re-defined as "spin", religious groups try to re-write science and a cheap collection of garbage and lies can be presented as an investigative documentary.

There must be something in that, too.

nomuse
2007-Mar-06, 01:43 AM
There are so many people taking about religion A that there must be something in it.

But wait! There are so many people talking about religion B that there must be something in it.

But wait! Religion A and religion B are mutually exclusive. They cannot both be right. Thus, for at least one of the religions, the following statement must be true:

There are many people talking about it, and yet there is nothing to it.


You obviously have not heard of Omniquantism. ^_^;

PhantomWolf
2007-Mar-06, 01:45 AM
I think this thread is starting to walk on thin ice.

Laguna
2007-Mar-06, 02:12 PM
I think this thread is starting to walk on thin ice.
And I can already see the cracks in it...

Sticks
2007-Mar-06, 03:00 PM
I did not want to mention the precise CT my brother had bought into, to avoid opening that can of worms, but when I was trying to point out the many debunking sites, he came back with the fact that there were a lot of websites supporting the CT, that there must be something in it and therefore it is true. :wall:

I assumed that this response is used by other CT's and possibly HB's and other space based CT's

AGN Fuel
2007-Mar-07, 05:05 AM
he came back with the fact that there were a lot of websites supporting the CT, that there must be something in it and therefore it is true. :wall:

The proliferation of such websites just goes to demonstrate that the mentally deranged person who once hollered from a soapbox on a street corner in your local town, now has at his disposal a tool that enables his hollerin's to be heard by a much wider audience.

And there are a heck of a lot of 'local towns' in the world...

hplasm
2007-Mar-08, 12:41 AM
If there might be something in it, there are several choices:-

Poke a stick down into it.

Send in a small dog.

Send in a guy witha red shirt and a tricorder.

Think of Kirk's razor- either snog it or send in a guy with a red shirt.

He likes small dogs...don't do that one.

;)

Rue
2007-Mar-08, 01:04 AM
The argument for what ever CT you can think of, be it space or non space, is that there are so many people talking about said CT, there must be something in it.


Is this along the lines of what "they" say? As in "well, they say that______"
or "you know what they say!"

"They" are all seeing and all knowing.

WaxRubiks
2007-Mar-08, 01:15 AM
I did not want to mention the precise CT my brother had bought into, to avoid opening that can of worms

if it's about the pope really being a truck driver from Gwent, it's true.

Peter B
2007-Mar-08, 01:59 AM
Sticks

Ask your brother if that relationship works both ways.

Therefore, if there are few web-sites discussing X (or Y or Z), there's probably nothing to it.

If so, what happens if initially there are few web-sites discussing X, but after a period, that number increases? Does that mean that something not real retrospectively becomes real?