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Paul Beardsley
2007-Mar-09, 05:16 PM
Now I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but will you please please please stop yer whingeing!

If having a superpower means you've got an ugly bulgy bit where your brain is oversized, or something like that, then I can understand your moaning. But if you are completely normal in appearance (and chances are you're better than normal-looking) then do us all a favour and stop complaining.

I am sick of people from the likes of Mutant X or The X-Men going on and on about how everybody thinks they're a freak because they can levitate or see through walls or read minds or are unusually strong. Yeah, well boo-hoo. You don't see people with normal chromosomes going off on an angst trip just because they've got a bit of talent: "Oh why did God curse me by making me a virtuoso violinist?"

Or are we meant to be impressed by the supposed irony? Or is it a way of keeping us norms in our place? "Wow, this woman is beautiful and she's got controllable telekinetic powers, and yet she's less happy than I am! Hey, perhaps I should be more content with my lot."

Well I for one am not impressed.

Jason Thompson
2007-Mar-09, 05:25 PM
Well, in fairness to the X-Men, I think they had every right to complain since their 'freakishness' was leading people to assume they were dangerous and try to lock them up or kill them....

NEOWatcher
2007-Mar-09, 05:29 PM
...You don't see people with normal chromosomes going off on an angst trip just because they've got a bit of talent: "Oh why did God curse me by making me a virtuoso violinist?"...
You obviously never watched American Idol. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/musik/c075.gif

DJ Barney
2007-Mar-09, 05:33 PM
That's funny. I was just looking at the game "Bullet Witch" in my local Game shop, on their demo machine.

Miss Witch leaps around, using "force" powers and blasting everything in site....

She is "burdened by special abilities"... "she never aked for" (quoting from memory).

She is " the only one who can fight the Demon's that threaten Earth" (...again?!)...."using her demons within".

It looks like it has had a Japanese Manga artist working on it, judging by the credits...so you can imagine the comically overblown concepts in it...lol!

She'd make a cool girlfriend if you could separate her from her gun.

DJBarney

NEOWatcher
2007-Mar-09, 05:34 PM
She is "burdened by special abilities"... "she never aked for" (quoting from memory).

"It's a gift, and a curse"... Adrian Monk.

captain swoop
2007-Mar-09, 05:39 PM
If you are normal in appearance 9like an X man) then why worry? if you don't use your superpower who is to know?

it never bothered Superman that much (well in his original form)

Matherly
2007-Mar-09, 05:55 PM
I am sick of people from the likes of Mutant X or The X-Men going on and on about how everybody thinks they're a freak because they can levitate or see through walls or read minds or are unusually strong.

That would be one of the major sources of conlicts between the X-Men and the Morlocks (a colony of muntants too deformed to "pass" as human).

SockMonkey
2007-Mar-09, 08:41 PM
"It's a gift, and a curse"... Adrian Monk.

I love Monk.


If you are normal in appearance 9like an X man) then why worry? if you don't use your superpower who is to know?

it never bothered Superman that much (well in his original form)

Mutant detection devices which exist or don't exist according to the needs of the plot and whim of the writers.

(don't get me started on a rant about it unless you reeeeeeally want to hear it)

publiusr
2007-Mar-09, 09:58 PM
Well, when your name is "The Strangelet" you get put on a mirror matter planet and no one wants to shake hands with you...

stutefish
2007-Mar-09, 10:49 PM
One of the ethical difficulties presented by "x-men" is that their powers often put them beyond the ability of "normal" human beings to contain, should the x-man decide to use their powers for evil; while at the same time these x-men show no indication of having any greater moral fiber, self-discipline, or humanitarian instinct than any regular human being.

Like the rest of us, they may mean well but do harm, lose their tempers, rush to judgement with faulty information, or be taken in by clever charlatans with wicked motives.

Consider, for example, the life-safety of an important political figure. A cadre of human bodyguards can take reasonable steps to protect their principal against any normal human who wishes to circumvent the democratic process or disregard the moral injunctions against murder by assassinating the principal.

But against an x-man of a certain caliber, there is no normal human defense. We are left entirely at the mercy of the x-man's goodwill and tolerance, from moment to moment.

How would the Secret Service protect the President against Charles Xavier, if he ever decided to use his awsome mind control powers for evil? How could we possibly defend ourselves against Magneto, if no mutant of good will and great power stepped forward to defend us? What reason have we to accept a teleporter's parole, when we have no real safeguard against that teleporter's all too human propensity to change his mind in the heat of the moment?

Our greatest weapons and most dire technolgical horrors are strictly controlled, and we put great effort into screening and supervising those we would allow to control or use them. But there is no governing the allocation of mutant superpowers, and no worthwhile oversight that does not greatly violate the human rights of these mutants.

The ethical dilemma is this: we cannot trust them not to become monsters. We cannot save ourselves if they do become monsters. We cannot prevent the possibility of them becoming monsters, unless we become monsters ourselves.

I don't have an answer to this one, which is why I am profoundly grateful that superpowers only exist in comic books, where there seems to be a general parity between superheroes and supervillains.

Swift
2007-Mar-09, 11:01 PM
Paul,
Really, it is a very small minority of normal-looking, superpower mutants (NLSPMs) that have this whiny problem. Most of us are quite content in our lives, and are able to enjoy our vast powers without getting all tangled up in these emotional issues. It is much like you normals, most of you are quite content with your drab, normal lives, and we only have to worry about a small minority of ones who complain about their "normalness".

Oh, but silly me, I might have gone on too much about all that. Nevermind.

publiusr
2007-Mar-09, 11:52 PM
As long as you register--

--Tony Stark

Whirlpool
2007-Mar-10, 12:12 AM
Hmm... I remember Jean Grey and Wolverine and in that matter.... :D

stutefish
2007-Mar-10, 12:27 AM
Hmm... I remember Jean Grey and Wolverine and in that matter.... :D

Exactly. Everybody who comes at all near the vaunted "nuclear football" is registered, vetted, closely supervised... and denied even this privilege if they do not pass various rigorous tests.

Jean Grey, meanwhile, is born with her finger on a button of equal (or greater) destructive power, with no independent oversight or control, and look how she reacts to the suggestion that this is perhaps not a wise arrangement.

captain swoop
2007-Mar-10, 01:02 AM
as a rule i avoid 'super hero' or 'mutant' type comics and film

to tell the truth I never read a comic, well apart from those peculiar British things like Victor, Eagla and Warlord which were more or less about WW2 apart from Dan dare or Roy of the Rovers.

Gillianren
2007-Mar-10, 01:25 AM
Anything that makes you feel isolated can feel like a curse whether it is or not.

I have an IQ of about 165. It sounds really good, but for one, no one around me (except my best friend of the similar IQ) really understands. I can meet people all day and not expect to meet one with my IQ or higher. I have this entire aspect of myself--arguably one of the most important--that I can't really share with much of anyone. My boyfriend (probably about 110) doesn't get it.

Part of the problem is probably that I have a really high IQ and a complicated mental illness, of course, but either way. And no one wants to kill me for either of those.

Though I have to admit, there's not much of that aspect in my own superhero books after about the first three, when the internal politics start getting more interesting than the external ones.

SockMonkey
2007-Mar-10, 01:31 AM
It's really the telepaths that are the greatest danger.

If you can shoot lasers out of your ear people can *see* what's being done and who is doing it.
Sure, you can probably take out a swat team but you know that if you become a problem the army is going to show up with snipers, poison gas, flamethrowers, or whatever it is you can't resist.

Tony Stark said that you can't put soeone who flies under house arrest.
Maybe, but you can shoot him down.

How would you stop a telepath?

Swift
2007-Mar-10, 05:45 AM
How would you stop a telepath?
Stop thinking? :think:

Certain members of the population will be very safe. :D

Tobin Dax
2007-Mar-10, 05:55 AM
How would you stop a telepath?

A Haitian working for you seems to work in some cases.

You didn't mention Heroes, but Hiro and Peter could fit what you're saying. About half the characters don't and half do, I'd say. Clare's forgivable, due to her age.

Okay, now that I'm thinking about it, you're right, and pretty much everybody that gets good screentime in Heroes does it. Good thing I've got a month to forget this thought before the new eps air. :)

trinitree88
2007-Mar-10, 01:55 PM
Stop thinking? :think:

Certain members of the population will be very safe. :D

:D :clap: pete

DaveC426913
2007-Mar-10, 04:42 PM
Now I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but will you please please please stop yer whingeing!

If having a superpower means you've got an ugly bulgy bit where your brain is oversized, or something like that, then I can understand your moaning. But if you are completely normal in appearance (and chances are you're better than normal-looking) then do us all a favour and stop complaining.

I am sick of people from the likes of Mutant X or The X-Men going on and on about how everybody thinks they're a freak because they can levitate or see through walls or read minds or are unusually strong. Yeah, well boo-hoo. You don't see people with normal chromosomes going off on an angst trip just because they've got a bit of talent: "Oh why did God curse me by making me a virtuoso violinist?"

Or are we meant to be impressed by the supposed irony? Or is it a way of keeping us norms in our place? "Wow, this woman is beautiful and she's got controllable telekinetic powers, and yet she's less happy than I am! Hey, perhaps I should be more content with my lot."

Well I for one am not impressed.
I think you'll find that if you strategically substiute a known, visible minority for mutant - such as "black" or "Hispanic" or "female", you'll discover you get into hot water very quickly. There's a good reason for this.


But the biggest crime committed is the one you just did yourself. You've generalized. You think you can make one blanket statement that applies to all people that you think are groupable. "All you mutants do <x>..."

You, Paul, expect that, in this conversation, you will be addressed as an individual person with a name: "Paul". You must do the same coutesy to your opponent(s).

See, if I were to respond to you in the manner you have opened the discussion, I would resppnd with "all you posters are alike - you all think <y> ..."

To which you would rightly respond "What? I never said all those things! That one was from Swift and that one was from SockMonkey! You can't lump me in with them!"

To which I would respond "Excuse me, but I'll decide how you are grouped. I am free to ignore the (IMO) irrelevant differences you might have as an individual. I say, (because I categorize you by your gender), that ALL YOU MEN think the same way."


See, the biggest crime is objectifying individuals - defining them by one characteristic (the colour of their skin, the bits that dangle between their legs, or the beams that shoot out of their eyes) - and then deciding that they can be dismissed on that characteristic with a single sweeping judgment.

Mutants experience this all the time. And you have no idea what it's like.


"You're a mutant. You'll melt me with your eyes! Mutie!"
"Actually, I'm an accountant, and I'll do your tax returns. And my name is Murray."

Paul Beardsley
2007-Mar-10, 05:34 PM
I think you'll find that if you strategically substiute a known, visible minority for mutant - such as "black" or "Hispanic" or "female", you'll discover you get into hot water very quickly. There's a good reason for this.


But the biggest crime committed is the one you just did yourself. You've generalized. You think you can make one blanket statement that applies to all people that you think are groupable. "All you mutants do <x>..."
Well I learned my lesson. I guess I just assumed Swift was a norm because he doesn't whinge about his superpowers...


You, Paul, expect that, in this conversation, you will be addressed as an individual person with a name: "Paul". You must do the same coutesy to your opponent(s). [Snip]
I take your point. If this had been a serious thread, I'd have used a "those of you who..." clause in the OP; that way, the individuals in question will be self-selected.

In all seriousness, though, I think there are people (not you) who are way too sensitive, and way too eager to draw generalised inferences that simply are not there. But this has nothing to do with whingeing mutants...

mike alexander
2007-Mar-12, 10:14 PM
All I have to say is that while I really don't give a bulldog's behind about mutants one way or the other, I feel really good about having picked up a wonderful new word: whingeing. Thanks, Paul.

I figured that 'whining' must be a corruption of 'whingeing' but it turns out they have different roots in Old English.

Makgraf
2007-Mar-13, 06:55 AM
How could we possibly defend ourselves against Magneto, if no mutant of good will and great power stepped forward to defend us?
With sharp plastic? :P

SockMonkey
2007-Mar-13, 08:48 AM
Or plastic explosives.:D
Seriously though, he's as vulnerable to germs, poisons, temperature, and spic foods as the next guy.

BTW how do you pronounce "whingeing"?

This happens once in a while where I'll be familliar with a particular term for years but never have occasion to use it outside of a chatroom and thus have no idea how it's actually said.

Tog
2007-Mar-13, 09:11 AM
Or plastic explosives.:D
Seriously though, he's as vulnerable to germs, poisons, temperature, and spic foods as the next guy.

BTW how do you pronounce "whingeing"?

This happens once in a while where I'll be familliar with a particular term for years but never have occasion to use it outside of a chatroom and thus have no idea how it's actually said.

According to my dictionary plugin it's pronounced very much like hinge or cringe.

As for Magneto, it's not that getting something to take him out would be so tough, it's that getting it TO him would be. Not only can there be no metal in the delivery system, there can be no metal near him that he could use as a shield of he knew the attack was coming. A poison tipped crossbow bolt fired from a composite crossbow would work wonders, but not if he just stand up a car in the path to block it.

As for the OP, I have a mutant superhero in a game. She needs to focus on the memories of dead loved ones to use her powers. Is it okay if she's not thrilled?;)

Whirlpool
2007-Mar-13, 11:47 AM
As for the OP, I have a mutant superhero in a game. She needs to focus on the memories of dead loved ones to use her powers. Is it okay if she's not thrilled?

Who is she?

I still like Jean Grey.
We have the same name, wish I have her powers too.

:neutral:

Tog
2007-Mar-13, 11:55 AM
Mine is named Mourning Angel and she's a character in a computer game. She's one of 50 or so that I have for the game, most of which have some sort of background story.

Paul Beardsley
2007-Mar-13, 02:13 PM
As for the OP, I have a mutant superhero in a game. She needs to focus on the memories of dead loved ones to use her powers. Is it okay if she's not thrilled?;)
I will allow that one, providing she maintains a degree of decorum.

(Wow, that "allow" fills me with a sense of power! I feel like a moderator, but without the extra workload!)

captain swoop
2007-Mar-13, 02:25 PM
Well Captain Alehouse is the best Super Hero. His Sidekick is called Beerstain and Lager Man is his nemesis!

Roy Batty
2007-Mar-13, 02:45 PM
Well Captain Alehouse is the best Super Hero. His Sidekick is called Beerstain and Lager Man is his nemesis!
Not mention General Drunkard & his sidekick Major Hangover huh? :D

Paul Beardsley
2007-Mar-13, 02:50 PM
Well Captain Alehouse is the best Super Hero. His Sidekick is called Beerstain and Lager Man is his nemesis!
I bet he doesn't whinge! Oh, except when he's had too many and he's at the maudlin stage.

V-GER
2007-Mar-13, 03:23 PM
I am sick of people from the likes of Mutant X or The X-Men going on and on about how everybody thinks they're a freak because they can levitate or see through walls or read minds or are unusually strong.

I agree except for the Mutant X part, wasn't he Proteus, Moira MacTaggart's son? Could hardly pass as normal, or was there another Mutant X?

Whirlpool wrote:

I still like Jean Grey.
We have the same name, wish I have her powers too.
Cool, I'd have her powers(Dark Phoenix) any day if not the name though...

I think the whole Jean/Phoenix thing is still one of, if not the best Marvel story around(Meaning the original Claremont/Byrne).

Swift
2007-Mar-13, 03:50 PM
Well Captain Alehouse is the best Super Hero. His Sidekick is called Beerstain and Lager Man is his nemesis!
Sounds like a superhero I want to be a fan of. What are his superpowers?

I bet another foe is Salty Snack and his evil henchmen Peanuts, Pretzels, and Popcorn. They bring Thirst to all who oppose them - luckily Captain Alehouse can quench that!

SeanF
2007-Mar-13, 04:43 PM
I agree except for the Mutant X part, wasn't he Proteus, Moira MacTaggart's son? Could hardly pass as normal, or was there another Mutant X?
I'm guessing Paul meant this Mutant X (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283203/). :)

V-GER
2007-Mar-14, 01:13 PM
Uh yes, his post makes all the sense now. Thanks for the link.

Paul Beardsley
2007-Mar-14, 01:24 PM
Sorry, I had no idea there was more than one Mutant X. I happened to be channel-hopping when I chanced upon an icky touchy-feely scene in which a poor little gifted girl was bemoaning her special abilities. I checked what it was and it just said Mutant X.

Thanks for clarifying things, SeanF.

V-GER
2007-Mar-14, 01:36 PM
I understand what you mean Paul, it's one thing to be born with three heads but if you're an all powerful telepath or a master of magnetism, you hardly have anything to complain about...

DaveC426913
2007-Mar-14, 01:53 PM
I will allow that one, providing she maintains a degree of decorum.

(Wow, that "allow" fills me with a sense of power! I feel like a moderator, but without the extra workload!)
My character is the freak of freaks.

He's the Changeling. He wakes up every morning and runs through a checklist before getting out of bed. Do I have eyes today? Limbs? Lungs? Good. Am I waking in the same place I went to sleep? Am I emitting anything toxic?


Now he has reason to whinge...

greenfeather
2007-Mar-14, 02:11 PM
Well, in fairness to the X-Men, I think they had every right to complain since their 'freakishness' was leading people to assume they were dangerous and try to lock them up or kill them....

Yeah, even when SF writers like Simak were writing about Mutants & Paranormals ("parries"), the problem was that Normals immediately persecuted & lynched them. Who wants that?

greenfeather
2007-Mar-14, 02:43 PM
How would you stop a telepath?

Play a mental soundtrack of annoying jingles. I think they did this in a Van Vogt book, maybe "Slan"?

greenfeather
2007-Mar-14, 02:49 PM
I think you'll find that if you strategically substiute a known, visible minority for mutant - such as "black" or "Hispanic" or "female", you'll discover you get into hot water very quickly. There's a good reason for this.

Mutants experience this all the time. And you have no idea what it's like.


"You're a mutant. You'll melt me with your eyes! Mutie!"
"Actually, I'm an accountant, and I'll do your tax returns. And my name is Murray."

Yeah!
Personally I identify with those Mutants a lot, because 1) I was a bookish outcast in High School, and b) I belong to an ethnic group that has historically been accused of all kinds of nefarious plots, because they also had a reputation for being Intelligent and Good with Money.

In fact, I get the impression a lot of these mutant comics are created by people in this ethnic group"!!

And, after watching Xmen 1, Magneto was by far my fave!!!

greenfeather
2007-Mar-14, 03:05 PM
You don't see people with normal chromosomes going off on an angst trip just because they've got a bit of talent: "Oh why did God curse me by making me a virtuoso violinist?"

You see it all the time. I want to know why I was "cursed" with Writing Talent! Why do I have this compulsion to write books!!!??? When I know I have no chance of getting them published & becoming a bestselling author? (whinge).

mike alexander
2007-Mar-14, 08:55 PM
Greenfeather wrote:


Play a mental soundtrack of annoying jingles. I think they did this in a Van Vogt book, maybe "Slan"?

I can't remember that one, but:

Tenser, said the Tensor
Tenser, said the Tensor,
Tension, apprehension,
And dissention have begun...


Bester, in The Demolished Man.

HenrikOlsen
2007-Mar-15, 08:23 AM
How would you stop a telepath?
Limp Bizkit
... and if you don't behave, I have Korn.

One minor price for whoever spots the reference:)

Noclevername
2007-May-11, 08:42 PM
When you have people who can blow up buildings by looking at them or thinking about them, can conjure up tornadoes and hurricanes, teleport, read minds, control minds, walk through walls, etc, it's natural to fear them.

And what people fear, they attack.

And attacked people get defensive.

It's just human (mutated or otherwise) nature. Sadly, if superbeings existed in the real world, the same things would probably happen.