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View Full Version : There are NO Black Holes after all



John Kierein
2002-Feb-09, 11:46 AM
http://www.unmuseum.org/soearch/over.htm

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Feb-09, 03:33 PM
That synopsis seems to say that the researchers say that their theory is a classical one, at odds with quantum mechanics. Are they denying quantum mechanics? And does the classical theory include relativity (SR or GR)?

AstroMike
2002-Feb-09, 04:35 PM
Sorry Mr Kierein, but that article doesn't prove black holes don't exist. The gravitational pull of black holes can't exist with something.

John Kierein
2002-Feb-09, 04:46 PM
Black holes are not consistent with quantum theory. In fact, Einstein's general theory is not quantized, it's an analog theory with no quantization. The 'Pushing Gravity" theory, to be published next month in the book "Pushing Gravity, New Perspectives of Lesage's Theory of Gravitation" edited by Matt Edwards of the U. of Toronto, produces a quantized gravity theory that is consistent with Special Relativity, but not necessarily with all aspects of the Principle of Equivalence assumption of the General Relativity theory.

AstroMike
2002-Feb-09, 05:20 PM
You left a big hole in your argument Mr. Kierein. Have you ever heard of "dark matter" and "baryons"?

_________________
"The contemplation of celestial things will make man both speak and think more sublimely and magnificently when he descends to human affairs." -Marcus Cicero

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AstroMike on 2002-02-09 13:45 ]</font>

John Kierein
2002-Feb-09, 10:10 PM
There have been attempts to quantize the gravitational force. But that's not general relativity. Dark matter and baryons have nothing to do with this.

Dunash
2002-Feb-10, 06:52 PM
http://www.electric-cosmos.org/arp.htm

AstroMike
2002-Feb-10, 07:08 PM
Dunash, that article doesn't exactly prove the Big Bang theory is false. What about Hubble's laws and constants?

Perhaps you should read this:
http://skyserver.fnal.gov/en/astro/universe/universe.asp

AstroMike
2002-Feb-10, 07:53 PM
John Kierein: But that's not general relativity.

Yes, Mr. Kierein, but I never said anything about general relativity. You left a hole in your argument because you haven't exactly specified why you think black holes are not consistent with the quantum theory.

Dark matter and baryons have nothing to do with this.

Unfortunately, that's not what I'm talking about. Dark matter and baryons are relevant in this case. Dark matter and black holes are both nonluminous matter postulate to exist because of unexplained gravitational effects seen from nearby objects. No one can directly observe a black hole because the gravitation pull is so strong, light cannot escape. This is general relativity. Dark matter is thought have material not consisting of baryons, elementary particles that are subjected to the strong nuclear force.
The two following pages, one about the Big Bang, the other about dark matter, can explain it better than I can:
http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm
http://www.sciam.com/specialissues/0398cosmos/0398rubin.html

ToSeek
2002-Feb-11, 02:16 PM
This is totally beside the point, but did anyone else find themselves singing the topic title to the tune of a rather insipid Disney song?

Valiant Dancer
2002-Feb-11, 03:25 PM
On 2002-02-11 09:16, ToSeek wrote:
This is totally beside the point, but did anyone else find themselves singing the topic title to the tune of a rather insipid Disney song?




Yes. It's now stuck in my head. For the good of mankind, I will now have to hunt you down.

(pounding head against wall to make the bad bad music go away.)

John Kierein
2002-Feb-11, 03:37 PM
Galaxies DO interact and connect. Note that the Arp galaxies look a lot like these in that the dust clouds seem to be connected!
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/intergalactic_pipeline_010110.html

ToSeek
2002-Feb-11, 05:30 PM
On 2002-02-11 10:25, Valiant Dancer wrote:

Yes. It's now stuck in my head.
(pounding head against wall to make the bad bad music go away.)



You have discovered my nefarious scheme to drive this board's denizens insane! Bwah-ha-ha!!