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Fazor
2007-Mar-29, 08:08 PM
Well, baseball season is drawing near. Time to dust off those gloves and cook up some hotdogs as the Mrs. bakes some apple-pie. Or something like that.

Baseball is one of those silly sports where during the off-season I find it boring and ...well, just boring. Not like Football which I always love. But once the season fires up it's hard not to get excited about it.

I thought I'd brows Fox Sports' "Power Rankings" just to see how my lowly Indians are expected to play. Well, they have them ranked #2. Kinda mixed feelings about that; it's great to see our team put up there and shown some respect. But being the very pessemistic fan one becomes after rooting for ANY cleveland sports team, all I can think is "Great, from the top there's only one dirrection to travel--down!". I almost would rather see them forcast as the middle of the pack team. Oh well, play ball!

Donnie B.
2007-Mar-29, 10:06 PM
For Red Sox nation, it will be interesting to see if Dice-K can live up to his billing (and paycheck!)

farmerjumperdon
2007-Mar-29, 10:29 PM
How bout dem Cubs?

Jim
2007-Mar-29, 10:36 PM
A local columnist, Ken Hoffman, always uses this time of year to bring out an old (and admittedly bad) joke.

If your team loses its first home game, it won't be able to serve beer for the rest of the season. Why?

Because it would have lost its opener.

(All together now. Groan!)

antoniseb
2007-Mar-29, 10:47 PM
Based on what we saw in Spring Training, the Red Sox have good pitching and very weak hitting (a bit of a reversal from recent years).

mike alexander
2007-Mar-29, 11:53 PM
re: Tribe

I will go offer a prayer at my shrine to 'Immortal' Joe Azcue, Fred 'Wingy' Whitfield and 'Stunning' Steve Dunning.

Maksutov
2007-Mar-30, 12:22 AM
I will do likewise, re the Mets, at the Most Holy Tabernacle of the Marvelous Marvin Eugene Thronberry.


Can't anyone here play this game?

- Casey Stengel, 1962

Click Ticker
2007-Mar-30, 12:20 PM
I'm excited to see if the Tigers can continue their magic from last season. Maroth is back, but Kenny Rogers already found his way to the 15 day DL.

Was last year a fluke? Time will tell.

Serenitude
2007-Mar-30, 12:24 PM
If anyone remembers my general complaining and whining over getting the shaft from the Baseball package and DirectTV (they told us we'd be recieving NO Tribe games - the only reason we bought the package - AFTER we'd paid, and refused to give us a refund), we got a nice email on our digital cable system yesterday (yes, we switched ;) ) - ALL Indians games will be broadcast for free on a new channel!

OH.YES.BABY!!! :D

farmerjumperdon
2007-Mar-30, 12:27 PM
I expect the discussions about Bonds to get really hot as he closes in on the HR mark.

Anybody read that book, In the Shadows, or something like that. I've heard a little about it, but not much. Apparently a pretty well researched read about rampant use of steroids in baseball, including very damning evidence on Bonds.

Fazor
2007-Mar-30, 02:19 PM
If anyone remembers my general complaining and whining over getting the shaft from the Baseball package and DirectTV (they told us we'd be recieving NO Tribe games - the only reason we bought the package - AFTER we'd paid, and refused to give us a refund), we got a nice email on our digital cable system yesterday (yes, we switched ;) ) - ALL Indians games will be broadcast for free on a new channel!

OH.YES.BABY!!! :D

Yeah, satelite and for the most part digital cable is ruining sports. I understand having to buy one of those outragously expensive sports packages if you want to get ALL the games. But when they make it so you can't even get the local team games without buying a package, that's just wrong. I was loving it when the FCC was talking about forcing cable companies to offer the option to just purchase certian channels. Hopefully one day that will come true.

Parrothead
2007-Mar-30, 03:21 PM
I don't really follow mlb, I'm more a hockey nut. I will say Go Jays! The biggest issue for them, the past few seasons, has had to be bullpen depth. They have one heck of a batting lineup though.

Hydro
2007-Mar-31, 06:24 AM
I will do likewise, re the Mets, at the Most Holy Tabernacle of the Marvelous Marvin Eugene Thronberry.

Okay Mak, you've made me dig into my Casey Stengel quotes.


"We've (1962 New York Mets) got to learn to stay out of triple plays."


"We (the Mets) are a much improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings!"


"This club (1969 New York Mets) plays better baseball now. Some of them look fairly alert."

Go Astros!

Maksutov
2007-Mar-31, 11:36 AM
I expect the discussions about Bonds to get really hot as he closes in on the HR mark.Now there will be a well-deserved asterisk!

Maksutov
2007-Mar-31, 11:42 AM
Okay Mak, you've made me dig into my Casey Stengel quotes.[edit]
"This club (1969 New York Mets) plays better baseball now. Some of them look fairly alert."... Go Astros!Funny, that 1969 squad won the World Series! (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1969.shtml) Managed by Gil Hodges.

:whistle:

Hydro
2007-Mar-31, 01:11 PM
I expect the discussions about Bonds to get really hot as he closes in on the HR mark.


Bleh, I'll be focused on another future Hall of Famer as he approaches 3,000 hits, the Astros' Craig Biggio.

Trebuchet
2007-Mar-31, 01:49 PM
For us Mariners fans, hope springs anew every April. And dies about two weeks later. This year about half the players are guys I never heard of.

Jim
2007-Mar-31, 06:05 PM
Bleh, I'll be focused on another future Hall of Famer as he approaches 3,000 hits, the Astros' Craig Biggio.

I think you can already find his photo in the MLB Big Book of Words and Phrases, under "Class Act."

Serenitude
2007-Apr-01, 04:04 AM
For us Mariners fans, hope springs anew every April. And dies about two weeks later. This year about half the players are guys I never heard of.

Edgar Martinez.

The Greatest Ever.

My Edgar collection is HUGE :cool:

Hydro
2007-Apr-01, 07:34 AM
Edgar Martinez.

The Greatest Ever.

My Edgar collection is HUGE :cool:

The greatest what? Designated hitter? That's not real baseball!!

I admit he was a very good (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martied01.shtml) hitter, but he was well below average with the glove in his less that 600 games in the field. He was a full-time DH for over 1,400 games. Playing his entire career as a Mariner is a admirable trait in these days of free agency, much like my favorite players Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio.

It will be interesting to see how the voters will react in a few years when he is eligible for the Hall of Fame ballot. My take is he will come up short.

Tobin Dax
2007-Apr-01, 08:25 AM
For us Mariners fans, hope springs anew every April. And dies about two weeks later. This year about half the players are guys I never heard of.

There is a slight advantage to having moved 2,000 from the northwest: I have to search for Mariners scores. Unfortunately, I only get a small number of season games per year to watch on TV, and they're all vs. the White Sox. :( I did stumble across the Cubs game last night, top of the ninth, but missed the final score. I can't bring myself to look it up.

Maksutov
2007-Apr-01, 10:42 AM
The greatest what? Designated hitter? That's not real baseball!!Agreed.

What are the fielding stats for a DH?

An American League aberration of real baseball.

National League's where REAL baseball is at.

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-01, 02:04 PM
Edgar Martinez.

The Greatest Ever.

My Edgar collection is HUGE :cool:

At least the greatest Mariner ever. Whatever you think about the DH rule, he adapted to it and made the most of himself under it. All while staying with his original team an being an all around good guy. He may indeed come up short for the Hall of Fame but he'd get my vote.

Speaking of the DH, I wish they'd play the inter-league games under the visiting team's rules. That'd be more entertaining for the fans, especially the AL fans who'd get to see the pitchers hit! (Or attempt to hit!)

Serenitude
2007-Apr-01, 04:10 PM
Strange that people want to penalize Edgar for playing by the rules. MLB made the rule, and cleanly, with a sense of class now missing from the game, made himself the paragon of the position. You may not agree with the rule, but he's still the best there's ever been at the position. But that's just part of the equation. The intangibles that make a 'great' player a legend are all there in Edgar. Soft-spoken, hard working, dedicated to his community. Loyalty to a team and a community. All of the traits you'd want in a HOF'er are there.

Maksutov
2007-Apr-01, 07:15 PM
Strange that people want to penalize Edgar for playing by the rules. MLB made the rule, and cleanly, with a sense of class now missing from the game, made himself the paragon of the position....Thanks to the American League rules, the only position he plays is on the bench.

Hydro
2007-Apr-02, 12:49 AM
Strange that people want to penalize Edgar for playing by the rules.

I don't want to penalize him at all. He was a great hitter. Hitting is only one part of baseball. And even if he didn't subject himself to the rigors of actually playing a position, his numbers still come up short in career value when speaking of his Hall of Fame candidacy, IMO.


with a sense of class now missing from the game

That's a mighty large brush you're using there, and its offensive to hundreds of current players who actually meet that criteria.


You may not agree with the rule, but he's still the best there's ever been at the position.

Thats my point, DH is not a position, other than being a position in the batting order.


But that's just part of the equation. The intangibles that make a 'great' player a legend are all there in Edgar. Soft-spoken, hard working, dedicated to his community. Loyalty to a team and a community. All of the traits you'd want in a HOF'er are there.

I agree.

Jim
2007-Apr-02, 01:10 AM
I don't want to penalize him at all. He was a great hitter. Hitting is only one part of baseball.

Quick, what was Whitey Ford's batting average? Nolan Ryan's? Or, better still, what was Babe Ruth's fielding percentage?

Yes, hitting is only one part of the equation. But, there are many members of the Hall who excelled in only one aspect.

Hydro
2007-Apr-02, 01:21 AM
Quick, what was Whitey Ford's batting average? Nolan Ryan's? Or, better still, what was Babe Ruth's fielding percentage?

And they all played a position on the field. I understand what you mean, but a DH is just a glorified pinch-hitter. A part timer.


Yes, hitting is only one part of the equation. But, there are many members of the Hall who excelled in only one aspect.

Excelled in one aspect but also accomplished enough to stay on the field. Edgar Martinez wasn't good enough to play a position, despite his excellent bat. So he became a full-time DH.

Several other players will be put to the DH test in the coming years also. Frank Thomas comes to mind.

antoniseb
2007-Apr-02, 02:03 AM
Several other players will be put to the DH test in the coming years also. Frank Thomas comes to mind.
David Ortiz is another.

I'm a Red Sox fan (to a degree... that is I think of the Yankees as 'worthy opponents' as opposed to 'the evil empire'), but I also would prefer to see the DH rule go away.

Jim
2007-Apr-02, 02:26 AM
There are those who will argue that being a DH is tougher in some ways than being a field player who takes his bats.

The field player is involved in the game for a full half inning, spends half an inning on the bench with the other field players talking about it, and takes a turn at bat every second or third inning.

The DH sits on the bench - alone, basically - for a half inning, spends half an inning sitting with the field players listening to them talk, and takes a turn at bat every second or third inning. It's much harder to stay "in the game" under those conditions, harder to feel a part of the team.

Whatever you do for a living, imagine going to work one day and being told to sit in the corner. You can watch everyone else working, but you just sit. Then, every so often, they tell you to "get over here and see if you can do this." After which, it's back to the corner again, either to celebrate your success alone or fret over your failure with no way to "work through" it.

Being a DH can be frustrating and difficult. Being a successful one can be a major contribution to your team's success. Don't put down the DH just because he doesn't play the field, too.

Oh, and for the record, I don't care for the DH rule. I think it takes away from the strategy of the game.

And I love to watch pitchers try to bat!

Hydro
2007-Apr-02, 02:50 AM
I can see where it would be tougher mentally. But on the other hand you avoid the physical pounding that a player takes by putting on a glove and playing a position for an entire season. Or a career.

A DH doesn't need a glove! :doh:

I'm just old school and traditional in my ways.

Donnie B.
2007-Apr-02, 01:10 PM
At the risk of putting words in Serenitude's mouth, I think some folks are missing the point he was trying to make.

Whatever your feelings about the DH rule, it is in fact an official part of MLB. American League teams have no choice but to comply with the rule, since allowing (most) pitchers to hit would place them at a significant disadvantage.

Therefore, there are and must be players who perform the DH role. This will be true as long as the DH rule is in effect, and even if it ends tomorrow there will be players who spent their careers in the DH era. It's not right to exclude those players from the HoF.

As with any other player, a DH should be evaluated on how well he played his position. In this particular case, that means purely hitting. Excluding a Martinez or Ortiz because they didn't play the field would be like excluding Hank Aaron because he couldn't throw a slider.

Serenitude
2007-Apr-02, 01:49 PM
Thank you Donnie. That's exactly what I was trying to say ;)

SeanF
2007-Apr-02, 02:18 PM
Excluding a Martinez or Ortiz because they didn't play the field would be like excluding Hank Aaron because he couldn't throw a slider.
I think a better example would be excluding Randy Johnson because he never had to hit. He only played "half the game" just as much as the DH who hit for him did.

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-02, 02:36 PM
I think a better example would be excluding Randy Johnson because he never had to hit. He only played "half the game" just as much as the DH who hit for him did.

Exactly my thoughts, although Randy did play in the NL for a spell. Isn't he back at Arizona now?

SeanF
2007-Apr-02, 03:07 PM
Exactly my thoughts, although Randy did play in the NL for a spell. Isn't he back at Arizona now?
Yep, I believe you're right. He wasn't the best example to make my point, was he? :shifty:

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-02, 03:28 PM
Good points all around. I think what makes it tough to agree is not so much the merits of either side in the debate, it is that it is a change. We can all agree that there is no expectation of a pitcher racking up offensive stats.

But the newness of the DH prevents us old-timers from recognizing that there is no expectation that a DH should be able to play defense.

I am uncomfortable too with the idea of DH being a "real" position; but I acknowledge that it is probably more because of my bias (due mostly to my age) and has not much founding in fact.

I also feel, that of the 3 major components of the game (pitching, hitting, and fielding), defense is the least distinguishing factor when it comes to assessing a players contributions or their overall quality of play.

That sound s like a point for accepting the DH as "real."

Hydro
2007-Apr-02, 04:04 PM
I also feel, that of the 3 major components of the game (pitching, hitting, and fielding), defense is the least distinguishing factor when it comes to assessing a players contributions or their overall quality of play.


Right. Every current Hall of Famer has two of those distinguishing factors. Either pitching and defense or hitting and defense. Defensive stastistics are difficult to interpret, but one thing is certain. The DH is a non-factor in the defensive spectrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_spectrum).


That sounds like a point for accepting the DH as "real."

Not in my book. Now my position would have changed if Edgar Martinez had more of a career impact, for instance had he reached the magic goal of 3,000 hits.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Martinez)

Possible Induction into the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
Martinez will be on the ballot for the National Baseball Hall of Fame after the 2009 season. His chances for induction are considered controversial because he spent two thirds of his career as a designated hitter. Martinez was not given regular playing time in the major leagues until 1990 (when he was 27), despite hitting extremely well in the minors and in his first September call-up to the Mariners. Because of the late start, he has not amassed the totals for hits (fewer than 2,300) and home runs (309, 100th all time) that some associate with a Hall of Fame slugger.

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-02, 04:07 PM
I also feel, that of the 3 major components of the game (pitching, hitting, and fielding), defense is the least distinguishing factor when it comes to assessing a players contributions or their overall quality of play.

That sound s like a point for accepting the DH as "real."

Don't know as I'd agree with that. Fielding, of the three, seems the least susceptible to performance enhancing drugs. Or to cheating, which has been rife in the pitching trade forever. (i.e. spitballs)

Edgar wasn't even the best Mariners player ever. The aformentioned Randy Johnson, Ichiro, Griffey, and one or two others probably surpass him. But he's still my favorite.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-02, 06:32 PM
Right. Every current Hall of Famer has two of those distinguishing factors. Either pitching and defense or hitting and defense. Defensive stastistics are difficult to interpret, but one thing is certain. The DH is a non-factor in the defensive spectrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_spectrum).

Not in my book. Now my position would have changed if Edgar Martinez had more of a career impact, for instance had he reached the magic goal of 3,000 hits.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Martinez)

I think pitchers get in for only one reason - their pitching. If their defense were bad enough to keep them from The Hall, my guess is they would never have gotten to The Show.

Sure, they play defense, but I have never heard of any voting consideration hinging on it.

Hydro
2007-Apr-02, 06:53 PM
I think pitchers get in for only one reason - their pitching. If their defense were bad enough to keep them from The Hall, my guess is they would never have gotten to The Show.

Sure, they play defense, but I have never heard of any voting consideration hinging on it.

Unless your name is Ozzie Smith or Bill Mazerowski or a select few others, you're in the Hall for either offense or pitching. My point was all of them played a position in the field.

One of the main factors in my thought that the DH is not a real position is that baseball has a rich history, well over 100 years of accumulated statistics to compare one era to another. The DH throws that completely out of whack.

Dick "Dr. Strangeglove (http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/S/Stuart_Dick.stm)" Stuart would have been a great DH. :D


"One night in Pittsburgh, thirty-thousand fans gave me a standing ovation when I caught a hot dog wrapper on the fly."

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-02, 09:16 PM
I actually remember seeing Dick Stuart play for the Billings Mustangs in the 1950's. Now I really feel old!

Swift
2007-Apr-02, 09:38 PM
I am probably a rare person among baseball fans who doesn't have a strong opinion about the DH. I don't think it is evil incarnate, but I understand some of the points made against it. It certainly has been a great career extender for some of the past-prime (bad knees) power hitters, who couldn't play a fielding position every day. And I kind of like having the different rules in the AL and NL, sort of two different flavors of baseball.


<snip>
One of the main factors in my thought that the DH is not a real position is that baseball has a rich history, well over 100 years of accumulated statistics to compare one era to another. The DH throws that completely out of whack.

Yes, but changes from one era to the next constantly "throw baseball out of whack". Just in my lifetime the constantly changing working definition of the strike zone has made bigger changes than the DH. I remember 1960's baseball, which favored pitchers, where a power hitter batted 0.280 and had 30 homeruns. How often do we have 20 game winners anymore?

Hydro
2007-Apr-02, 10:02 PM
Yes, but changes from one era to the next constantly "throw baseball out of whack". Just in my lifetime the constantly changing working definition of the strike zone has made bigger changes than the DH. I remember 1960's baseball, which favored pitchers, where a power hitter batted 0.280 and had 30 homeruns. How often do we have 20 game winners anymore?

The sabermetric gurus have several formulas to account for different eras, using adjusted earned run averages for the pitchers and adjusted OPS (on-base + slugging avg.) for the hitters each year to 'normalize' the results of the changes you mentioned and the difference in ballparks. If you're a history buff like myself, its interesting reading.

It is difficult to estimate how much the toll of not playing in the field everyday can prolong a career. Or shorten a career by playing a position and not having the luxury of being a DH.

Swift
2007-Apr-02, 10:19 PM
It is difficult to estimate how much the toll of not playing in the field everyday can prolong a career. Or shorten a career by playing a position and not having the luxury of being a DH.
I was actually talking more about guys who played their career at First or in the Outfield as power hitters, but when they couldn't do that everyday, spent their last years as a DH. Many of those guys would otherwise have to retire. It will be interesting to see what happens with guys who spent their career at DH.

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-03, 01:41 AM
The M's have beaten the A's on opening day. The A's have owned them for years! Will wonders never cease?

Parrothead
2007-Apr-03, 03:56 AM
Didn't Molitor get inducted into the Hall as a DH? (though he did play other positions).

Serenitude
2007-Apr-03, 04:38 AM
True story - maybe the most afraid I've ever been in my life (and I was a Ranger, remember).

Edgar's second to last year. My dream for almost 20 years had been to see Edgar play before he retired. The wife surprises me with tickets for the Mariners vs. the Indians, in Cleveland, that year. Excited as heck.

Now, I'm an Indians fan, in general, but an Edgar fan in particular. So, that one particular day, I wasn't dressed in my usual Indians garb, but in all of my Edgar stuff (jersey, hat, etc...).

While sitting at the Jake, I am singled out on the fan-cam, with the bubble-caption "Boo Him" over my head. Nothing like being outnumbered 30,000 to 1 vs. drunk, angry Tribe fans. And I had visions of trying to plead my case as I was beaten to death, telling them of the pictures I have at home of me and Omar, me and Jodi, me and Pronk, me and Thome. My memorabilia. Of the thousands of dollars I had paid in Baseball package dues just to make sure I never missed Indians games.

That was a nervous moment.

Hydro
2007-Apr-03, 05:59 AM
Didn't Molitor get inducted into the Hall as a DH? (though he did play other positions).

He played 1495 games at various positions and 1174 games as a DH. He also had the milestone of 3,319 career hits (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/molitpa01.shtml).


Serenitude, that's a great story! I can't imagine being singled out like that, wearing your favorite players garb in 'hostile' territory.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-03, 12:18 PM
Yes, but changes from one era to the next constantly "throw baseball out of whack". Just in my lifetime the constantly changing working definition of the strike zone has made bigger changes than the DH. I remember 1960's baseball, which favored pitchers, where a power hitter batted 0.280 and had 30 homeruns. How often do we have 20 game winners anymore?

Good point about changes, and it's not just baseball. Look how radically basketball has changed. I still do not like the 3-point shot. Shooting from outside already has the advantage of being much more likely to not have the shot contested. Why give an extra point to a player for making a flatfooted set shot?

Not to mention the shot clock, changing to 6 fouls, and that ridiculous rule about no charging calls inside that new line in the paint. Don't want to cramp anybody's showboating opportunities.

Maksutov
2007-Apr-03, 01:08 PM
[edit]I'm a Red Sox fan (to a degree... that is I think of the Yankees as 'worthy opponents' as opposed to 'the evil empire')....Congrats on collecting some cash from Steingrabber for writing that.

The Yankees aren't only evil, they're damned!

Hydro
2007-Apr-03, 01:44 PM
Congrats on collecting some cash from Steingrabber for writing that.

The Yankees aren't only evil, they're damned!

It pay$ to wear pin$tripe$. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-salaries&prov=ap&type=lgns)

antoniseb
2007-Apr-03, 01:59 PM
Congrats on collecting some cash from Steingrabber for writing that.
Wow, is cash available?

Peter Wilson
2007-Apr-03, 10:15 PM
Didn't Babe Ruth play DH when he wasn't pitching?


The M's have beaten the A's on opening day. The A's have owned them for years! Will wonders never cease?

Is anyone going to go out on a limb and predict the WS?

Jim
2007-Apr-04, 01:26 AM
Is anyone going to go out on a limb and predict the WS?

It will be between a team from the American League and one from the National League. They will play between four and seven games, and each game will run for at least 8 1/2 innings.

Donnie B.
2007-Apr-04, 12:06 PM
It will be between a team from the American League and one from the National League. They will play between four and seven games, and each game will run for at least 8 1/2 innings.Dang, you're good.

sts60
2007-Apr-04, 02:53 PM
I predict my Astros, with their relentless, inexorable, unstoppable two-runs-a-game offense, have a better chance of making it to the Series than any of the minor-league teams.

Jim
2007-Apr-04, 05:02 PM
I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Or the farm club.

Remind me again why we got Carlos Lee. Didn't it have something to do with hitting?

Hydro
2007-Apr-04, 06:00 PM
Remind me again why we got Carlos Lee. Didn't it have something to do with hitting?

He will get there. He fought off a tough two-strike pitch and singled in a run last night.

Look on the bright side, the starting pitching has been great in two games. As far as everything else, including the bats, defense, base running, and the bullpen, not so much.

I have to keep reminding myself. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-04, 07:02 PM
The M's have beaten the A's on opening day. The A's have owned them for years! Will wonders never cease?

Two in a row! Homers for Sexson both nights. I believe I may have to watch the whole game tonight.

Peter Wilson
2007-Apr-04, 07:51 PM
I knew it! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17935260/)

Fazor
2007-Apr-04, 08:40 PM
Back-to-back games w/ a HR for Grady Seismore also! Game's not quite over yet, and has been a back-and-forth affair all day. Hopefully the Tribe can hang on to their lead for the last two innings. But even if they lose, that's a heck of a start for Seismore.

Donnie B.
2007-Apr-04, 09:43 PM
By the way, Tribesters... while I live in the Bay State and follow the Sox's fortunes nowadays, I grew up in Lorain and was an Indians fan back when Tiant and Colovito were stars. So I still have a warm place in my heart for today's Indians.

I can remember sitting way up in the jet-stream seats in old Municipal Stadium for the one or two games a year I got to see. Quite an experience for a kid, even though by today's standards it was an awful ballpark. I got back there for the last time sometime around '76 or '77, and have never been to the Jake.

Maksutov
2007-Apr-05, 03:17 AM
The Mets are off to a good start, with a three-game sweep of the Cardinals, including a 10-0 shutout to end the series.

I recall the Cardinals being a good fielding team last year. What happened between then and now?

:think:

Maksutov
2007-Apr-05, 03:19 AM
I knew it! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17935260/)Uh, this is a major league baseball thread.

Maksutov
2007-Apr-05, 03:34 AM
Wow, is cash available?You tell me. Only a bought-out "Red Sox fan" would write something like that. Respect for the Yankees? That's like asking a Tar Heel fan to praise Duke.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4879/iconbiggrin1kg.gif

Hydro
2007-Apr-05, 03:59 AM
I recall the Cardinals being a good fielding team last year. What happened between then and now?

:think:

Those World Series rings from last year are weighing them down. ;)

My hope is they will continue to struggle at least through the weekend.

Serenitude
2007-Apr-05, 04:41 AM
Can a math major help me out here?

I'm just wondering if my Tribe has been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet ;)

Maksutov
2007-Apr-05, 06:54 AM
Can a math major help me out here?

I'm just wondering if my Tribe has been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet ;)Not yet. But you shouldn't have long to wait.

BTW, the equation for determining elimination is rather convoluted and involves forays into hyperdimensional space-time-fog.

It's Major League (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097815/) math.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/513/majorleaguejn0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Hydro
2007-Apr-05, 07:19 AM
By the way, Tribesters... while I live in the Bay State and follow the Sox's fortunes nowadays, I grew up in Lorain and was an Indians fan back when Tiant and Colovito were stars. So I still have a warm place in my heart for today's Indians.

I can remember sitting way up in the jet-stream seats in old Municipal Stadium for the one or two games a year I got to see. Quite an experience for a kid, even though by today's standards it was an awful ballpark. I got back there for the last time sometime around '76 or '77, and have never been to the Jake.

Do you remember the Tribe's thirdbaseman, Max Alvis? He was my local banker for years... now retired and watching his grandson play HS ball here in his hometown. Great fellow, I always enjoyed chatting about the game and the players with him.

Donnie B.
2007-Apr-05, 12:35 PM
Do you remember the Tribe's thirdbaseman, Max Alvis? He was my local banker for years... now retired and watching his grandson play HS ball here in his hometown. Great fellow, I always enjoyed chatting about the game and the players with him.He was certainly there in the right time frame, but I can't say I have any strong recollections of him. I'm glad you've been able to download his memory, so to speak. It's good to keep those traditions alive.

Fazor
2007-Apr-05, 02:12 PM
Speaking of memory of players, I got to listen to the game on the radio yesterday (better than watching it on tv, if you ask me). That's when I realized that yet another year has begun and half the names of the starting line-up are forgin to me. I guess i got spoiled in the early-to-mid 90's with Omar and Thome and Lofton and (shudders but) Bell, Sandy Alomar, and the doe-eyed but talented Manny Rameriez (sorry i know I'm butchering the names).

Anyway my point was suppose to be that for a few years, I could consistantly recognize the players from year to year. I don't know if every team swaps players as much as the Tribe but I can't keep up. But they have always done a great job at scouting. And altho I doubted the "let the vets go and raise some young talent" approach that saw Thome, Visquel and Rameriez off to other teams, it seems to work well for them (pitching is another story entirely).

Swift
2007-Apr-05, 03:16 PM
Speaking of memory of players, I got to listen to the game on the radio yesterday (better than watching it on tv, if you ask me). That's when I realized that yet another year has begun and half the names of the starting line-up are forgin to me. I guess i got spoiled in the early-to-mid 90's with Omar and Thome and Lofton and (shudders but) Bell, Sandy Alomar, and the doe-eyed but talented Manny Rameriez (sorry i know I'm butchering the names).

Anyway my point was suppose to be that for a few years, I could consistantly recognize the players from year to year. I don't know if every team swaps players as much as the Tribe but I can't keep up. But they have always done a great job at scouting. And altho I doubted the "let the vets go and raise some young talent" approach that saw Thome, Visquel and Rameriez off to other teams, it seems to work well for them (pitching is another story entirely).
I would say it is true of all teams now a days. I can keep up with the Tribe, and in fact there is a core group that has been around for several years: Pronk, Grady, CC, Jake, Victor (you know they are yours when you just go by the first or nickname).

But with teams that we only play twice a year (the Eastern and Western teams) it is hard to keep up. I often do this "when did so-and-so become a Ranger?".

At least our broadcast team is consistent. Tom Hamilton is the best radio announcer in the majors.

SeanF
2007-Apr-05, 04:17 PM
Speaking of memory of players, I got to listen to the game on the radio yesterday (better than watching it on tv, if you ask me). That's when I realized that yet another year has begun and half the names of the starting line-up are forgin to me. I guess i got spoiled in the early-to-mid 90's with Omar and Thome and Lofton and (shudders but) Bell, Sandy Alomar, and the doe-eyed but talented Manny Rameriez (sorry i know I'm butchering the names).

Anyway my point was suppose to be that for a few years, I could consistantly recognize the players from year to year. I don't know if every team swaps players as much as the Tribe but I can't keep up. But they have always done a great job at scouting. And altho I doubted the "let the vets go and raise some young talent" approach that saw Thome, Visquel and Rameriez off to other teams, it seems to work well for them (pitching is another story entirely).
You ought to try being a minor-independent-league fan sometime. Half the team at the end of the season will be different than the beginning!

sts60
2007-Apr-05, 05:05 PM
He will get there. He fought off a tough two-strike pitch and singled in a run last night.

Look on the bright side, the starting pitching has been great in two games. As far as everything else, including the bats, defense, base running, and the bullpen, not so much.

I have to keep reminding myself. It's a marathon, not a sprint.Yeah. You can trip and fall flat - three times in a row - at the start and still win a marathon. So I am dismayed and disappointed but not disheartened. Yet, anyway.

Peter Wilson
2007-Apr-05, 06:44 PM
Uh, this is a major league baseball thread.:rolleyes:

Football? Baseball? What's the difference? Zebras will be zebras :razz:

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-05, 06:54 PM
:sad: A's nine, M's zero last night.

Oh well, two for three to start, against Oakland, isn't all that bad.

Regarding refs (or umps) favoring the home team, that probably applies only if the home team isn't playing the Yankees, who seem to get all the calls.

Swift
2007-Apr-05, 07:01 PM
Back-to-back games w/ a HR for Grady Seismore also! Game's not quite over yet, and has been a back-and-forth affair all day. Hopefully the Tribe can hang on to their lead for the last two innings. But even if they lose, that's a heck of a start for Seismore.
Grady just had his third HR in three games (on pace for 162 for the season ;) ). And this is after he had a slow spring training. :clap:

Fazor
2007-Apr-05, 07:52 PM
Grady just had his third HR in three games (on pace for 162 for the season ;) ). And this is after he had a slow spring training. :clap:

Did he? I have the game on here at work but had to get up to get a fax. When I got back I heard that there was a HR and I thought it was him. Yay Grady! You forgot, that also puts him on pace to have a season-ending injury in the next hour or two :( That seems to be the breaks for any cleveland team (no pun intended).

Donnie B.
2007-Apr-05, 09:09 PM
Today was Dice-K's first start in MLB. He went seven innings, gave up six hits and one run, and struck out 10, throwing 108 pitches. Not too bad, although it was against the Royals. OTOH, KC has had Boston's number over their last dozen meetings or so.

The game isn't over as I type this, but the Sox lead 4 - 1 going into the ninth. Matsuzaka is on line for the win, can't lose.

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-10, 01:28 AM
Mariners snowed out in Cleveland on Friday. And Saturday. And Sunday. And today (Monday). Six scheduled games into the season and we already have three to make up. As do the Indians, of course.

Having fun, Ohioans?

Swift
2007-Apr-10, 03:35 AM
Mariners snowed out in Cleveland on Friday. And Saturday. And Sunday. And today (Monday). Six scheduled games into the season and we already have three to make up. As do the Indians, of course.

Having fun, Ohioans?
No.
And now, for reasons I don't understand (it supposed to be done with the snow), the next three games, homes games against the Angels, are going to be played in the domed stadium in Milwaukee! :eh: :evil:

Tobin Dax
2007-Apr-10, 05:13 AM
Mariners snowed out in Cleveland on Friday. And Saturday. And Sunday. And today (Monday). Six scheduled games into the season and we already have three to make up. As do the Indians, of course.

Having fun, Ohioans?

I'm living in the cold snap *and* am waiting for more Mariners baseball. I've got the worst of both worlds. (Okay, it's not snowing in central IL, but it's still not supposed to be in the 30's in April.)

Maksutov
2007-Apr-10, 07:49 AM
Well, baseball season is drawing near. Time to dust off those gloves and cook up some hotdogs as the Mrs. bakes some apple-pie. Or something like that....And drive the Chevy to the levee but the levee is dry. Funny thing about levees, it's the areas around them that are wet, levees are designed to be dry (except in certain areas of Louisiana).

Concerning the snowed-out games, as Dick Vitale would say "It's global warming, baby! Take the rock to the hoop, baby! Diaper dandy time!"

Whoops, still in NCAA tournament mode.

:lol:

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-10, 12:11 PM
I think they should add about 15 or 20 more games to the baseball schedule, move all the games indoors, shrink the field to half the size or so (no outfield fences over 150'), pad the walls, use a whiffleball, microphone all the players, and start the game by having 2 pitchers sumo wrestle on the mound to see who gets to bat first.

Also, after the 195 game season, allow all teams into the playoffs. The morning after the championship Champagne corks have popped, pitchers and catchers report to spring training.

Fazor
2007-Apr-10, 01:36 PM
Mariners snowed out in Cleveland on Friday. And Saturday. And Sunday. And today (Monday). Six scheduled games into the season and we already have three to make up. As do the Indians, of course.

Having fun, Ohioans?

We've got 4, and will be 5 after tonight (I cant imagine them playing a game that doesn't start 'til after 7).

Oh well. You Mariners fans musta gotten together to pay off the officials on Friday night. Calling the game one out away from making it official, when the Tribe was up 4-0? Oh well, can't change it, but I wasn't a happy camper.

pumpkinpie
2007-Apr-10, 05:16 PM
I'm excited to see if the Tigers can continue their magic from last season. Maroth is back, but Kenny Rogers already found his way to the 15 day DL.

Was last year a fluke? Time will tell.

I'm still in shock at how the last year went for the Tigers! (This from a die-hard fan ever since the 103 losses of 1989 and the 1 year of winning baseball after that!)

I'm not sure if the Tigers can live up to last season. I'm just hoping for the playoffs again!

Trebuchet
2007-Apr-10, 11:35 PM
We've got 4, and will be 5 after tonight (I cant imagine them playing a game that doesn't start 'til after 7).

Oh well. You Mariners fans musta gotten together to pay off the officials on Friday night. Calling the game one out away from making it official, when the Tribe was up 4-0? Oh well, can't change it, but I wasn't a happy camper.

Who says a manager can't win a game? Or at least not lose one! But with the looming makeup games, I bet there are some in the organization who wish it had been completed.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-11, 03:32 AM
How 'bout them Cubs?

Maksutov
2007-Apr-11, 07:17 AM
I think they should add about 15 or 20 more games to the baseball schedule, move all the games indoors, shrink the field to half the size or so (no outfield fences over 150'), pad the walls, use a whiffleball, microphone all the players, and start the game by having 2 pitchers sumo wrestle on the mound to see who gets to bat first....Didn't they try something like that with football? Something called the XFL?

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-11, 12:37 PM
Didn't they try something like that with football? Something called the XFL?

Yeah, everything but the whiffleball. I think they might still be around; but we'd have to hear from one of the 12 people in each market who go to the games to get positive confirmation.

Jim
2007-Apr-11, 01:11 PM
How 'bout them Cubs?

As an Astros fan, I really, really like the Cubbies.

What about the news that the new owner of the Tribune will likely sell the Cubs after this season, and may sell Wrigley Field separately?

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-11, 06:21 PM
Saw that. No shock on the offer to sell, but the bottom line could spell the end of Wrigley. Man I love that place.

It'll be interesting to see the sale price. Because of the sentimental value (and I really do mean sentimental value - as in money-making) an outright bidding war could drive the price to incredible levels. Think we could see the 1st billion dollar price for a sports team? Didn't the Red Sox go for $600 million plus?

BTW, it is the profit made on the sale of sports teams that gets ignored in the owners begging for subsidies. People forget that owning a team is almost guaranteed a huge windfall upon sale. It is entirely typical to make $100 million on the sale of a team held for only 3 or 4 years.