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Jens
2007-Apr-03, 09:40 AM
Maybe Gillian or somebody else can give me some advice on this. I don't have a good grammar book that explains this.

"I remember you telling me..."

"I remember your telling me..."

The first is definitely more common. I'm wondering if there is a "correct" answer in this case.

Incidentally,

"I remember Bill telling me..."

sounds more normal than:

"I remember Bill's telling me..."

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-03, 12:08 PM
I'll go with door #1, "I remember you telling me . . ."

Tog
2007-Apr-03, 12:19 PM
Me too. I think "your" in this case makes it sound like "telling" is a noun making it sound more like "I remember your dog". Could be wrong though.

Judges?

farmerjumperdon
2007-Apr-03, 12:26 PM
How about "I remember you told me . . ."?.

(That oughta get her attention).

01101001
2007-Apr-03, 01:29 PM
How formal do you intend your writing to be?

Wikipedia: Gerund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund)


Gerunds preceded by an object or a genitive
A gerund can be used in combination with either an object or a genitive (possessive). The latter is considered more formal, and the only option when an adjective precedes the gerund, but is more common when the second verb applies to a person rather than an object.

We enjoyed them (object pronoun) / their (genitive) singing.
We enjoyed their excellent singing. (an object pronoun is not possible here)

HenrikOlsen
2007-Apr-03, 02:37 PM
"I remember you telling me..."
In this case, the thing remembered is the thing told and that "you" did it.

"I remember your telling me..."
In this case, the thing remembered is the experience of being told by you.

At least, that's how I understand it. All regular disclaimers apply. Content may settle after filling.

Roy Batty
2007-Apr-03, 04:28 PM
Incidentally,

"I remember Bill telling me..."

sounds more normal than:

"I remember Bill's telling me..."

Isn't that last one just plain wrong? I can't see why an apostrophe etc should be in there.

I think only the 1st option is correct in either case.

Fazor
2007-Apr-03, 05:30 PM
Okay, well "your" and the apostrophe 's' both indicate possession. As pointed out, "telling me" is not a noun and cannot be possessed. You could say, "I remember your story about..." or "I remember Bill's story about..." but if you are wording it the way you have it in the OP, go with "I remember you telling me...".

I'll have to disagree with Henrik; the "I remember you telling..." wording is remembering the experience of being told whatever by whoever. It's remembering the whole thing; the telling and what was told. "you telling me" would be used for both situations.

tdvance
2007-Apr-03, 05:43 PM
"I remember you telling me...." I guess could be made correct with something like:

I remember, you were telling me....

but in my HS English class, the other form was the "officially approved by the teacher" form:

I remember your telling me...
I remember Bill's telling me...

Todd

SeanF
2007-Apr-03, 06:33 PM
As pointed out, "telling me" is not a noun and cannot be possessed.
"Telling" is indeed a noun - at least, it can be used as a noun. It's a gerund (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gerund).

"The story gets better in the telling - in his telling, anyway."

Perfectly valid English.

Gillianren
2007-Apr-03, 06:41 PM
(That oughta get her attention).

She was asleep! Isn't she allowed to sleep?

Okay. Here's how it works out.

"I remember your telling me" is correct.

"I remember you telling me" sounds better, even to me.

"I remember that you told me" is how I generally recast the sentence to avoid dealing with the issue.

And quite right, Sean: "telling" is a gerund and therefore a noun.

Fazor
2007-Apr-03, 08:01 PM
Just to nitpik for the sake of probably making myself even more wrong; wouldn't telling only be a gerund if used in a certian way? Like, "Mark Twain was famous for the telling of the story of Huck Finn", and not "I heard your telling me to go to the store"? Maybe the second case is right also, but it just sounds sooo awkward and wrong. Sounds like something that my WVa. mountain-dwelling family members would say. :-P

Gillianren
2007-Apr-03, 08:50 PM
Just to nitpik for the sake of probably making myself even more wrong; wouldn't telling only be a gerund if used in a certian way? Like, "Mark Twain was famous for the telling of the story of Huck Finn", and not "I heard your telling me to go to the store"? Maybe the second case is right also, but it just sounds sooo awkward and wrong. Sounds like something that my WVa. mountain-dwelling family members would say. :-P


You spelled "nitpick" wrong.

It does sound awkward and wrong. However, it's awkward and right. Ergo, I just recast, as I said. It's one of the advantages of English; there's almost always more than one way to say something.

In the second example, "telling me" can be replaced with "statement," for example, and there's no doubt that "statement" is a noun. What's confusing in this particular instance is that "to tell" is a verb. However, the definition of "gerund" is "a verb, usually ending in '-ing,' used as a noun."

Delvo
2007-Apr-03, 09:50 PM
You spelled "nitpick" wrong.Akhck, self-reference! It what you just said true or false? If false, is that the case for all absolute statements? If I were a supercomputer in Star Trek, I'd be dead now.


It does sound awkward and wrong. However, it's awkward and right.The problem is that we lack an obvious way to signal that the verb has been nouned, at least for that verb. With many other verbs, there are specific noun forms, like "receipt" and "reception" for "receive", or we can add "-ance" (compliance, variance) or, most often, "-tion" or one of its siblings, or even something rarer like "-ure" (failure) or "-al" (refusal). But "tell" gives us nothing but "-ing", which already has another, more common use.

BioSci
2007-Apr-03, 10:00 PM
In the second example, "telling me" can be replaced with "statement," for example, and there's no doubt that "statement" is a noun. What's confusing in this particular instance is that "to tell" is a verb. However, the definition of "gerund" is "a verb, usually ending in '-ing,' used as a noun."

But... in this case, the addition of the object "me" converts "telling" back into a verb and not a gerund.


From the previous web definition example
" when used as a noun, as in singing in We admired the choir's singing."

But if you insert an object after singing such as "carols" the sentence must read "We admired the choir singing carols." -because "singing" is no longer the object of "admired" but rather part of the objective clause "choir singing carols"

Similarly, in the previous construction with "telling" the phrase "you telling me" becomes an objective clause of the verb remember and "telling" is no longer a gerund.

To use "telling" as a gerund, the sentence would need to make "telling" into a noun such as: "I remember your telling."
To include "me" something awkward like: "I remember your telling to me."

HenrikOlsen
2007-Apr-03, 10:14 PM
Sounds like I got it exactly wrong then :)

Gillianren
2007-Apr-03, 11:14 PM
But... in this case, the addition of the object "me" converts "telling" back into a verb and not a gerund.


From the previous web definition example
" when used as a noun, as in singing in We admired the choir's singing."

But if you insert an object after singing such as "carols" the sentence must read "We admired the choir singing carols." -because "singing" is no longer the object of "admired" but rather part of the objective clause "choir singing carols"

Similarly, in the previous construction with "telling" the phrase "you telling me" becomes an objective clause of the verb remember and "telling" is no longer a gerund.

To use "telling" as a gerund, the sentence would need to make "telling" into a noun such as: "I remember your telling."
To include "me" something awkward like: "I remember your telling to me."

Consider it an understood "to."

Look, I don't make the rules! This is how it's supposed to be. I think it sounds awkward and wrong, so I don't use it; I suggest the same to everyone else as well.

danscope
2007-Apr-03, 11:21 PM
Maybe Gillian or somebody else can give me some advice on this. I don't have a good grammar book that explains this.

"I remember you telling me..."

"I remember your telling me..."

The first is definitely more common. I'm wondering if there is a "correct" answer in this case.

Incidentally,

"I remember Bill telling me..."

sounds more normal than:

"I remember Bill's telling me..."

********************
This simply suggests " I remember the occasion of you telling me ....."
It is only a simplification of the more formal . I believe both are acepted.
Best regards, Dan

Fazor
2007-Apr-04, 08:52 PM
You spelled "nitpick" wrong.


LoL one of those ironic typos. Oh well.

Maksutov
2007-Apr-05, 04:07 AM
Sounds like I got it exactly wrong then :)You're telling me.