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View Full Version : Peanut Butter - the Atheist's Nightmare!



LurchGS
2007-Apr-19, 10:05 PM
I have some very helpful friends - one of them pointed this out to me the other day on youtube. There are others that go with it, but this one had me literally rolling on the floor.

When I came to my senses, though, I was terrified - to how many people does this kind of argument actually make sense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

The basic argument here is that if new life could happen by accident, then, with all the jars of peanut butter sold in the last 100 years, new life should have been discovered in at least one of the jars.

Ronald Brak
2007-Apr-19, 10:15 PM
So that's what that odd greenish speck was in my peanut butter. It must have been new life. Pity I ate it. Or maybe they were expecting something a bit more impressive like the time I opened up a jar of vegemite and discovered the yeast had evolved into a superintelligent civilization of telepaths. I ate them too for the good of humanity. A whole jar of vegemite at once. Never before has one man sacrificed so much for so many.

LurchGS
2007-Apr-19, 10:19 PM
LOL -

yeah.. The government should award you something for that. Personally, I think all taxes should be revoked for anybody who eats *any* Vegemite.

Van Rijn
2007-Apr-19, 10:26 PM
So that's what that odd greenish speck was in my peanut butter. It must have been new life. Pity I ate it. Or maybe they were expecting something a bit more impressive like the time I opened up a jar of vegemite and discovered the yeast had evolved into a superintelligent civilization of telepaths. I ate them too for the good of humanity. A whole jar of vegemite at once. Never before has one man sacrificed so much for so many.

Truly, you should get international recognition for your great deed.

There was that time when something came out of the fridge that looked like the creatures on "Alien" but I'm not supposed to discuss it. National security regulations and all that.

Ronald Brak
2007-Apr-19, 10:29 PM
There was that time when something came out of the fridge that looked like the creatures on "Alien" but I'm not supposed to discuss it. National security regulations and all that.

Come to Brisbane China town. Face hugger is on the menu.

BigDon
2007-Apr-19, 11:31 PM
Come to Brisbane China town. Face hugger is on the menu.


Mmmmm, picante!

Maksutov
2007-Apr-19, 11:53 PM
Actually peanut butter has had a history of developing new life forms. These were called "stale makers" and had a good living before the management at the processing plant decided to add preservatives to their product.

The effects of peanut butter and other foods are discussed at this scientific website.
(http://lovestarz.com/jansky6.html)

BigDon
2007-Apr-20, 12:03 AM
Okay, I broke down and watched the youtube thing, which I don't usually do in these threads.
What they ignore is just how long four billion or so years is, prior to the first life. These folks want to see evolution happen in front of their faces.

mike alexander
2007-Apr-20, 01:29 AM
Maksutov wrote:
Actually peanut butter has had a history of developing new life forms. These were called "stale makers" and had a good living before the management at the processing plant decided to add preservatives to their product.

I distinctly remember the long-faced guy who said that Skippy actually took out the Stale Makers. I am devastated that I can no longer remember his name. Probably wiped away by Manners, the Butler, the little guy who told everyone that Kleenex napkins cling like cloth while hanging around underneath the dining room table looking up at people's laps.

LurchGS
2007-Apr-20, 01:44 AM
Okay, I broke down and watched the youtube thing, which I don't usually do in these threads.
What they ignore is just how long four billion or so years is, prior to the first life. These folks want to see evolution happen in front of their faces.


but, you see, more to the point, they're expecting a frog or somthing visible to the nake eye - instead of some small colony of.. oh, virii or bactreria Not only are they ignoring the initial billions of years, but also the multiple millions that lead from the first stage to the second.

In any event, unless they have examined each and every one of those jars of peanut butter, there is no possible validity to any claim that new life did NOT spring forth.

Come to think of it - how sure are they that that fungus they showed in the video isn't something entirely new, starting from scratch?

And to point out that the speaker is identified as "Engineer and AUthor" - as though either undertaking qualifies him to have an informed opinion on the matter. (And, BAUT company excepted - I've met far more engineers who are completely ignorant outside their chosen field than 'scientists')

Gillianren
2007-Apr-20, 05:53 AM
Okay, I broke down and watched the youtube thing, which I don't usually do in these threads.
What they ignore is just how long four billion or so years is, prior to the first life. These folks want to see evolution happen in front of their faces.

And when it does demonstrably happen (maybe not in front of their faces per se, but observed in real time), they dismiss it. Sad, really, how far some people will go to dismiss evidence that disagrees with their worldview.

sarongsong
2007-Apr-20, 08:29 AM
...The effects of peanut butter and other foods are discussed at this scientific website. (http://lovestarz.com/jansky6.html)http://bautforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
...catalysts are ruled by Pluto...fatty acids are ruled by Mars, and glycerin, like all alcohols, is ruled by Neptune...

Chuck
2007-Apr-20, 02:42 PM
A new life form evolved in my pizza last night. I wish I had noticed before I ate it.

Roy Batty
2007-Apr-20, 02:51 PM
I often think a new life form evolves in my bowels after eating some foods - doesn't stop me though :D

HenrikOlsen
2007-Apr-20, 05:00 PM
My theory is that life is continually created, and is just as continually eaten in the passing by something that spent 1014 generations on becoming the meanest thug in the hood.

Ilya
2007-Apr-20, 05:10 PM
There was that time when something came out of the fridge that looked like the creatures on "Alien" but I'm not supposed to discuss it. National security regulations and all that.
Did it say "ZOOL!"?

mugaliens
2007-Apr-20, 05:19 PM
Original life was very simple compared to even the most simple forms of life, today, and even then, it took millions of years to evolve into the next step that was still less complex than the simplest forms of life today.

NEOWatcher
2007-Apr-20, 05:36 PM
That was so bad, I didn't want to click on the next video in the series.
An athiests nightmare: The Banana.

Maybe we should set out a jar of PB for about a million years, and hit it with lightning now and then.

Besides; even if it did happen, then what's to say HenrikOlsen's idea is not correct:


My theory is that life is continually created, and is just as continually eaten in the passing by something that spent 1014 generations on becoming the meanest thug in the hood.

mike alexander
2007-Apr-20, 07:43 PM
But the real questions are whether creamy and chunky are separate species. Or whether the new life evolved to look just like peanut butter to escape detection.


And don't know if anyone noticed, but when the Author and Engineer opened the bottle, the safety seal had been previously partially pulled up. How do we know if the new life didn't escape at that point?

Maksutov
2007-Apr-20, 09:25 PM
When creamy peanut butter first appeared in the marketplace, it was a miserable failure. One Mad Ave ad man referred to it as "The Hydrogenated Bomb".

Glutomoto
2007-Apr-20, 10:51 PM
And don't know if anyone noticed, but when the Author and Engineer opened the bottle, the safety seal had been previously partially pulled up. How do we know if the new life didn't escape at that point?

I guess they were not very confident with their aurgument and had to check the contents first to make sure that there was nothing but peanut butter.

:)

mike alexander
2007-Apr-20, 11:22 PM
One Mad Ave ad man referred to it as "The Hydrogenated Bomb".

Oy, that hoits.

sarongsong
2007-Apr-21, 03:25 AM
Speaking of squirrels http://bautforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
...Researchers found that when they gave red squirrels (Tamiasciurus hudsonicus) a head start in life--by supplementing their mothers' diets with peanut butter or sunflower seeds--the offspring were nearly three times more likely to survive until the following spring as were those from control group mothers...researchers report online 29 March in Biology Letters... ScienceNOW (http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/science-shots/)Caution: Prepare to spend some time on this page...it starts with an audio link to a Solar symphony and ends with "...a transgenic mouse with a glowing brain..." http://bautforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

LurchGS
2007-Apr-21, 07:27 PM
I often think a new life form evolves in my bowels after eating some foods - doesn't stop me though :D

probably just the opposite, ne? :)

BigDon
2007-Apr-21, 08:38 PM
Sarongsong, cool link. I had to bookmark it.

Oh, I wanted to say, since viruses were mentioned, that viruses are are product of life. Since "most" viruses are more closely related to their primary hosts than to other viruses, its thought that their origins lie in incomplete cell mitosis. So that would make them rogue chemicals as opposed to a life form.

TrAI
2007-Apr-21, 11:08 PM
Original life was very simple compared to even the most simple forms of life, today, and even then, it took millions of years to evolve into the next step that was still less complex than the simplest forms of life today.

Quite, I would expect that new life would tend to be outcompeted by older and more established life where ever it were to come into existence.

BigDon
2007-Apr-21, 11:26 PM
Quite, I would expect that new life would tend to be outcompeted by older and more established life where ever it were to come into existence.

I asked my teacher this very question back in fifth grade, (Circa 1970) and he said the same thing. Most proto-life is going to be a nutrient to existing life.

(Mmmm, nitrogen-carbon-phosphorus compounds, yummy. A little sunlight and chlorophyll and you have breakfast)

mickal555
2007-Apr-23, 06:21 AM
Okay, I broke down and watched the youtube thing, which I don't usually do in these threads.
What they ignore is just how long four billion or so years is, prior to the first life. These folks want to see evolution happen in front of their faces.

There's that.

And they are confusing, the origion of life with it's evolution.

Also the chemistry in peunut butter isn't the same as what was going on in the primordial earth.

And they only checked creamy peunut butter.

Gillianren
2007-Apr-23, 08:16 AM
And peanut butter in the jar has been sterilized before it leaves the factory.

mickal555
2007-Apr-23, 08:20 AM
Well, yeah.

I don't think they are talking about contamination though, comming from excisting life.

They want completly new life to spring out of nowhere.

tofu
2007-Apr-23, 03:34 PM
And peanut butter in the jar has been sterilized before it leaves the factory.

I think that's really their point. You start out with a sealed, lifeless environment - but one that contains lots of nutrients and would therefore theoretically be ideal for life. So the creationists ask, "why doesn't life evolve in here?"

As is typical of creationists however, it's really a straw man argument. No scientist would claim that life *should* evolve under those circumstances even if you did wait millions of years. So they are shooting down an argument that scientists don't make. Textbook straw man.

It turns out there is still a bit of mystery about exactly what it takes for life to get started. As a bare minimum though, you need "the stuff of life" like amino acids and such. We know what conditions are necessary to create amino acids; one of the constituents is electricity. Since peanut butter jars are no known for their electrostatic properties, it is just plain silly to expect life to ever spontaneously evolve in one, but that is what the creationists are trying to say.

As an addendum, you also apparently need water and motion such as from a river. The point is, you certainly need more than just peanut butter and privacy.

Musashi
2007-Apr-23, 04:37 PM
It seems like this would be the equivalent of saying that God doesn't exist because my prayers for a jar of peanut butter go unanswered every day.

mike alexander
2007-Apr-23, 05:59 PM
No, it's just that God knows peanut butter is bad for you.

Has anyone tried any of the other nut butters, though? Cashew butter is almost too good for words.

And most important of all, has anyone ckecked the Vegemite jars? If life was going to evolve anywhere, it's there. And it would be NASTY.

Roy Batty
2007-Apr-23, 07:45 PM
As an addendum, you also apparently need water and motion such as from a river. The point is, you certainly need more than just peanut butter and privacy.
Oh, I don't know; peanut butter, privacy & consenting adults might result in new life - but I think that's better left for another forum :D;)


And most important of all, has anyone ckecked the Vegemite jars? If life was going to evolve anywhere, it's there. And it would be NASTY.
Gosh yes! I tend to kill off the Marmite lifeforms by adding a few drops of Tabasco though :)

HenrikOlsen
2007-Apr-23, 09:24 PM
Though sterilized, the peanut butter still likely contains lots of living cells, so their experiment is fundamentally flawed from the start, just as their conclusions made from it.

mike alexander
2007-Apr-23, 10:01 PM
Let's be fair, here. If it was an experiment, it was an experiment in rhetoric. The ONLY sad thing is those people who watch, nod sagely, and say to each other, "Well, THAT takes care of those loony evolutionists."