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Humphrey
2007-May-22, 03:01 AM
SPOILERS








A very, very, very awesome finale.

OK so we know a few things for "generations" Also some speculation on my part:

We know The Petrelli bro's dad had powers, and since their mom was also a member of the group, good chances she has powers too.

Also Isn't her part and Nathan's strikingly similar to the Manchurian candidate? How much do you want to bet that it ends in a similar fashion too. [Well it sort of already has with him rebelling, but i also mean revealing her to be Evil]. Anyone else happen to notice she always touched him when he was debating if he was doing the right thing, then he would "see the light"? Hmmmmm?

we know Sylar is alive

we know that here is a supremely evil man out there. At least where a little girl is concerned. Maybe he just stole her Barbie and she just really did not like that?

I bet that the next season will be devoted to finding out exactly who went down a bad path in the previous generations attempt and I bet we will find out that those bad apples are still at work from behind the scenes with the good ones secretly moving our current Heroes [and new ones yet to be introduced] as pawns to counteract the bad apples pawns. Like how they positioned our heroes to take on Sylar, the bad apples pawn.

Move and counter move. Big game of super powered chess.

The introduction of Hiro to the samurai guy is going to be a major plot point. I believe that it will have two outcomes:

1. Someone alive now was also alive then, someone who we would least expect.
2. the super evil man is the heartless samurai warrior himself. Once he cut out his heart, he turned evil. Remember the quote that everything is all about love? Well he cut out and removed all of the love from his body, which was stored in his heart. So not he has no love left. Only remains is Hate/Evil.

Even tough i really love Peter's scenes, he is becoming too powerful. they have to do something to return him to a lower state. The death of his brother at his hands probably will do that. He will have to overcome his grief, and maybe even use the powers of shape changing girl to impersonate his brother to find out who is at the bottom of everything.

One person who we know will turn against the rest and become evil. Always happens in every damn tv show, will probably also do it here. It is usually due to lazy writing or running out of ideas, but hey, who knows. Maybe they can actually write it well.


The list of enhanced people will be sought after with even more pressure to find the next pawn in the evil peoples game.

Tobin Dax
2007-May-22, 03:39 AM
I still don't completely believe that Pop Patrelli had a power. He probably did, but Linderman may have just been telling Nathan what he needed to hear.

I still want to know what the dream thing is. My guess is that it's a power from one of Peter's parents, or maybe Charles Deveraux. (Yes, I know this is almost hypocritical, but if this power was Angela's, wouldn't she know that Peter had it?) The touching thing is something I've missed (and haven't seen anyone else say), but that's a great catch.

I'm not sure if either Petrelli brother survived (though they probably did, considering how liked the characters are). What I really love, though, is how the Nathan did *exactly* what Peter dreamed he would. (Especially since no one else did. I really wanted to see Claude!)

I've been avoiding spoilers for next season, so I really don't know what will happen, but we'll see. We do know that Hiro can change the past, so this could get fun.

Demigrog
2007-May-22, 03:49 PM
(more spoilers)









What I don't get is, why did Nathan have to do anything? Peter can fly too. That is always the problem when a character gets too powerful--too many "its in the script" moments.

Hokie
2007-May-22, 04:03 PM
(more spoilers)









What I don't get is, why did Nathan have to do anything? Peter can fly too. That is always the problem when a character gets too powerful--too many "its in the script" moments.

He was too worried about blowing up and trying control the radioactive power to fly himself.

Matherly
2007-May-22, 04:17 PM
He was too worried about blowing up and trying control the radioactive power to fly himself.

Which is also why he didn't teleport.

Predictions: We will learn more about the previous generation of heroes. Watch for Granny Petrelli, Linderman, Devaroux (sp?), and Mr. Nakamora (sp?) to have been (powered-up) allies until something caused a split amoungst them. I suspect that it will have been based on a power struggle over the direction of the "Company" (teaching the heroes versus manipulating the heroes)

Nathan will be dead and Peter will be alive (although possibily in some sort of "hybernation").

The non-hero public will know that something happened in New York and will start asking questions.

Anyway, that's what I think.

Oh, and Best. Episode. Ever.

phunk
2007-May-22, 05:02 PM
My WAG, I think Peter got his ability to dream the past and future from his mother, and she used that ability to help Linderman plan their version of the future.

Tobin Dax
2007-May-22, 06:20 PM
Predictions: We will learn more about the previous generation of heroes. Watch for Granny Petrelli, Linderman, Devaroux (sp?), and Mr. Nakamora (sp?) to have been (powered-up) allies until something caused a split amoungst them. I suspect that it will have been based on a power struggle over the direction of the "Company" (teaching the heroes versus manipulating the heroes)

I doubt that Mr. Nakamura has a power, considering his line about waiting for someone to ascend. I also think that it's pretty obvious that the four you mentioned are still working together (or were). Sulu might not be anymore, but that could have changed during Hiro's journey. Linderman and Angela Petrelli were definitely still going for it, and I think that Charles Deveraux still supported the plan (at least in that he wasn't actively going against it).

I do hope that we see more than just the previous generation and Kensei next season, but I trust the writers enough at the moment to believe that I'll enjoy whatever they give us.

Gerrsun
2007-May-22, 07:25 PM
We had a little mini-viewing party for it last night and it just wasn't up to par with some of the earlier episodes.

This was the general consensus around the room.

Just briefly, NO ONE checked to see that the mass murderer Uber-man was REALLY dead? OR put a bullet into his head for good measure....I'm looking at you HRG.

phunk
2007-May-22, 07:49 PM
Yeah and it bugged me that he let Hiro stab him so easily, he had a dozen ways to stop him.

Delvo
2007-May-22, 08:03 PM
I thought Hiro would "blink" into the space right next to him to give him no time to react, sorto like that blue guy in the White House in the X-Men movie. But I guess a few steps was close enough.

I don't need to see people double-checking Sylar's body on-screen to believe they did so. It just didn't need to be shown.

I was nice seeing them all team up against him at the end, and seeing how much easier it was for him to weild his powers than for Peter.

The way the "explosion" was moved elsewhere reminded me of the way I would have thought Hiro would kill Sylar: grab him, "blink" into space, let go, "blink" back down. That last step reminds me that once Nathan got Peter far enough away, he could have let go and flown away before it happened. So, without knowing whether the energy burst from Peter would harm Peter, we don't know whether either or both of the Petrellis is alive or dead. I just didn't get why he couldn't cool off this time like he did before.

Demigrog
2007-May-22, 08:26 PM
I just didn't get why he couldn't cool off this time like he did before.

Its in the script. :)

Delvo
2007-May-23, 12:43 AM
A few other minor oddities:

How did Sylar move when time was frozen the first time Hiro tried to kill him, and why did he then act like the time-freeze could stop him the next time they met if he'd already been not-stopped by it before?

Why didn't Ted blast Sylar? (He might just not have thought of using a heavy all-around burst or not wanted to in order to avoid more collateral damage, and might also be unable or think he's unable to do a more directed, focussed blast without having his hands free.)

When Candice attacked Nikki, she seemed to know about the alternate personality Jessica, because she seemed to be playing the part. And when Jessica appeared in a reflection, she said not only that the attacker wasn't her, but also that Micah wasn't really dead. How did Jessica and Candice know about each other?

Tobin Dax
2007-May-23, 01:24 AM
A few other minor oddities:

How did Sylar move when time was frozen the first time Hiro tried to kill him, and why did he then act like the time-freeze could stop him the next time they met if he'd already been not-stopped by it before?

Two popular thoughts on this are that a) Hiro un-stopped Sylar by touching him with his sword or b) Hiro lost some control of his power as he was trying to convince himself to kill Sylar. I lean more toward (b) myself.


Why didn't Ted blast Sylar? (He might just not have thought of using a heavy all-around burst or not wanted to in order to avoid more collateral damage, and might also be unable or think he's unable to do a more directed, focussed blast without having his hands free.)

Ted had never seen Sylar, and didn't know who he was when he opened the door. The trauma of having your head cut open is probably enough to distract you from using your power. :)


When Candice attacked Nikki, she seemed to know about the alternate personality Jessica, because she seemed to be playing the part. And when Jessica appeared in a reflection, she said not only that the attacker wasn't her, but also that Micah wasn't really dead. How did Jessica and Candice know about each other?

Linderman knew what DL and Nikki/Jessica could do, and he also orchestrated their relationship to some degree. He more than likely told Candace about Jessica in case she ever needed to know that information (like in the finale).

phunk
2007-May-23, 02:56 AM
That last step reminds me that once Nathan got Peter far enough away, he could have let go and flown away before it happened.

The problem is Nathan didn't know how much longer before Peter exploded, I think he held on until the end to make sure he didn't fall back to the ground before he blew up.

Tog
2007-May-23, 08:19 AM
Over on the geek forum I frequent we've been hashing out every episode like this. Here are some thoughts from that camp.

Papa Petreli had no powers. This is based on the comic on the Heroes website. He was the lead of a team in Vietnam. Linderman was the only other surviving member. In the course of the mission, Petreli was wounded and healed by Linderman. He considered Linderman to be a freak, but was willing to use him to heal a prisoner that he was repeatedly torturing for information. After the mission, Petreli tried to convince the CO that Linderman had these powers. Linderman denied it and the two parted as enemies. Years Later, when Peter and Nathan were babies, Linderman returned to Papa Petreli with an offer.

Mama P and Devareux knew that both Nathan and Peter could have powers (rooftop talk) but that neither had developed yet. She also arranged for the Haitian (who seems to have vanished) to watch over Claire. We can assume that she is one of the founders of the group, and I think her ability to alter a person's will will be seen in the coming season as the way that DL and Niki (MPD Mom) were manipulated to be together.

The way I see things happening, Linderman has this group, some powered, some not. At first they all started out with a similar goal. Help the world. Train the supers, etc. Soon a rift developed. Sulu took one side, and Mama P took the other. Devareux seems to have been on the good side of it. I'm guessing that for a time Mama P was as well because she followed her husband. I'm basing this on her comment to Claire that she didn't want Claire to make the same mistakes she did. If Mama P did something she felt was a mistake, and the current plan is okay with her, then I think the mistake was turning against Linderman for a time.

I think Devareux had a dream power. The first dream was when Peter was sitting with him and they both went flying. Peter absorbed it, but didn't know about it since it didn't come up as often.

I didn't really care much for the finale. Big one: Why is Sylar still alive? Bad Dad knows what the guy can do, and he has no moral issues with killing a helpless guy. They watch the explosion, the camera jumps to each group then ends on Sylar before the ambulances arrive. No one bothers to cover the body, check for vitals, or anything else once EMS gets there, and no one bothers to ask why there is a blood trail down in to the sewer.

Good thing Illusion girl knew that Jessica was out and Niki was in charge, for the first time in weeks. That was a lucky guess.

Peter lived. No doubt. Future Peter admits he was the bomb. Nathan, not so sure. He could have dropped him then had Peter give in and explode a few seconds later, or he could have just died in the blast. I'm not sure if I think he should survive only to develop cancer from being that close to Peter as he was going critical. It might come off as a cliche. Let's hope that the explosion knocks him out of that Keanu Reeves mode he's been in for months.

I don't think we've seen the Really Evil Guy yet. It might be Kinsei, but even in this world, I think surviving without a heart might be stretching it. Hiro could bring him to the present, so there's no real issue with his being 350 years old. I thought the story about Kinsei cutting out his own heart was foreshadowing Hiro needing to kill Ando (or allow Sylar to kill him as a distraction) in order to get to Sylar. That would have explained why Future Hiro was so dark.

Delvo
2007-May-23, 02:11 PM
Why is Sylar still alive?Why do you say he is (even to the point of treating it as undeniable fact rather than speculation)?

Tog
2007-May-23, 03:10 PM
Why do you say he is (even to the point of treating it as undeniable fact rather than speculation)?

Fair enough, I guess there is a chance he could be dead.

The blood trail from where he fell to the open sewer lid would indicate one of three possibilities.

1. He's alive enough to drag himself over to it. He may have died once there, but he was alive enough to get out of the area without anyone noticing. I think that's inconsistent with the "we have to stop him" theme.

2. One of the others dragged him over and threw him in so as not to have to explain why there there is a sword hole through him, but no sign of any sword in the area. (In that case I'd think they'd kill him just to be sure, but I think they would have also showed it, or mentioned it in some way.)

3. Something in the sewer came up and got him. Speculation on the Geek forum is that the cockroach on the sewer lid is the same one that was in the cell when Bad Dad had him, which led to speculation that the roach is actually the unnamed evil (who can transform in to an animal).

There may be other options I didn't think of, buto matter what happened to him, the last scene is one that implied he escaped, which seems odd if he's really dead.

Delvo
2007-May-23, 04:01 PM
Where did all of that come from? The last I saw of him, he was just lying there right where he'd been skewered.

Tog
2007-May-23, 04:10 PM
At the end of the Ep Peter explodes, then it cuts to the faces of everyone left, then to Sylar on the ground. From there it fades to a wide overhead shot of the ambulances where Molly runs up to Matt on the gurney and tells him something trite. Cut back to Cheerverine and Bad Dad, who has a plan. Cut to the pool of blood where Sylar used to be, with drag marks leading tot he open manhole with the roach on it. and the title graphic on the rim.

From there is goes to Hiro landing in Japan in 1671 just at it seems Kinsei is about to do battle with a small army, then the eclipse comes.

I might have missed some stuff in there, but that's the basic way I saw the end of the show.

Delvo
2007-May-23, 04:30 PM
Two popular thoughts on this are that a) Hiro un-stopped Sylar by touching him with his sword or b) Hiro lost some control of his power as he was trying to convince himself to kill Sylar. I lean more toward (b) myself."A" has the benefit of being something we already knew must happen anyway, if we think about it. If matter Hiro touches didn't join him in his timeline, he wouldn't be able to move anything, because something for which time isn't passing can't move! And that includes not just moving whole intact objects, but also cutting or stabbing or breaking them (causing their constituent atoms to move farther apart from each other).

Noclevername
2007-May-23, 04:53 PM
Remember, 9th Wonders only showed Hiro stabbing Sylar to stop the explosion, it didn't say whether he was dead or not.

Tog
2007-May-23, 05:06 PM
"A" has the benefit of being something we already knew must happen anyway, if we think about it. If matter Hiro touches didn't join him in his timeline, he wouldn't be able to move anything, because something for which time isn't passing can't move! And that includes not just moving whole intact objects, but also cutting or stabbing or breaking them (causing their constituent atoms to move farther apart from each other). But, he was able to move the girl out of the way of the bus without her joining him. He's moved a lot of stuff without breaking focus, or having it join him.

Also, he never touched Sylar with the sword at Mama Sylar's house. He made a strike and Sylar stopped it then grabbed the sword. I think he lost focus and Sylar was able to break through, much in the same way he was able to fight off the tranquilizer IV Suresh had him on. Perhaps one of the powers we never really knew about was the ability to resist other powers if he was in close range of them. We never really saw him collect an ice power. We know he has a photographic memory but we never see him use it. We never found out how he was able to resist the bullets from Matt, then fly through the roof after failing to get Molly in the police station in LA.

Then again, the show does have a few examples of really bad writing in places, and this may be another one.

Delvo
2007-May-23, 05:39 PM
Another thing I haven't gotten for the lask few weeks is how Linderman's crew seems to have known when someone would "blow up"... not just that it would happen, but when.

Gerrsun
2007-May-23, 05:51 PM
Makes me believe that Episode One next season starts with New York getting exploded.

Petey or Sylar wasnt the bomb at all

Tobin Dax
2007-May-23, 06:11 PM
Another thing I haven't gotten for the lask few weeks is how Linderman's crew seems to have known when someone would "blow up"... not just that it would happen, but where.

I think that's from the dream power. Peter still doesn't understand that one (definitely not to the point that he can conciously control it), so it might actually be slightly different than what we've seen. It could be that whoever has it (most likely Deveraux, IMO) saw the explosion using the power.

Noclevername
2007-May-23, 07:35 PM
Another thing I haven't gotten for the lask few weeks is how Linderman's crew seems to have known when someone would "blow up"... not just that it would happen, but where.

Simone Deveaux sent pictures of Isaac's paintings to Linderman.

Delvo
2007-May-24, 01:29 AM
The painting doesn't specify when it happens, though. (I said "where" above once when I meant "when", after having said "when" the first time... although how Nathan knew where is another problem.)

Noclevername
2007-May-24, 01:36 AM
In several paintings over the course of the series, NYC was shown in ruins, and in a few, election banners were visible, marking the when.

phunk
2007-May-24, 04:21 AM
But Peter dreamed of other places and times at least twice, he got that from someone, most likely either his mother or Deveaux. I think Linderman's group had more knowledge of the future than just Isaac's paintings.

Tog
2007-May-24, 08:19 AM
The first time Peter dreamed that seemed to matter to the story was when he was asleep in the room with Devareux. He had a dream that they were both flying. If Mama P knew that Nathan could fly (she implied that she could tell when they discovered their powers) she may have mentioned it to the group. Devareux may have led Peter to that dream so that he would open up a bit and be more receptive to his own powers, whatever they may be. No matter how Linderman found out about it, I can't see a way that he could have known before the 6 months ago episode. Isaac hadn't started painting the future yet. Then, it would take a while to convince someone that you really are painting the future. Look at the examples on here.

Another thing that always bothered me was how did Claire get on Papa Suresh's list in the first place? The Woman with the super hearing said that she gave permission for her blood to be used in the Human Genome Project, and Suresh said that was how they detected her potential (or some such). Would Bad Dad have really let Claire's blood into a project like that, knowing that there was a chance that she would be discovered and taken away by the company?

Matherly
2007-May-24, 12:19 PM
Would Bad Dad have really let Claire's blood into a project like that, knowing that there was a chance that she would be discovered and taken away by the company?

Bennet probibly had no choice in the matter. The company was well aware of Claire's potential and probably took a blood sample before giving her to Bennet. As for how that sample got into Suresh's data- it seems to me the leadership of the company is not unified and it could have been leaked.