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novaderrik
2007-May-29, 03:57 AM
tonight, i was watching that 2 hour show on History about the origins or whatever of the Star Wars story, and they showed that scene at the end of Jedi where the Ewoks are dancing and using the helmets of fallen Stormtroopers as drums, and Luke is off by himself lighteing Vader's body on the funeral pyre. and i got to thinking- what did all of his fellow rebels think about him bringing the body of the guy that caused them so much grief over the years to their little party to give him a proper funeral? i would have thought they would have gone crazy like the Italians did when Mussolini fell and done all sorts of weird things..
or did he just kind of sneak it in and not tell anyone what he was doing?

Palomar
2007-May-29, 04:06 AM
SW fan here. Saw that program too. My thoughts:

1) Luke told them Vader was his father; of Vader's change of heart and how he'd actually saved Luke's life and destroyed the Emperor.
2) The other rebels are mature, reasonable and respectful enough of Luke to leave him in peace to say farewell to father as he desired.

Or maybe he did "just kind of sneak it in." Why wasn't Leia seen at the pyre, standing near or beside Luke? At that point had Luke informed her of their father's identity? Seems not.

Gillianren
2007-May-29, 04:35 AM
It has struck me as unlikely that he told anyone what was going on. I would imagine he knew that not everyone would be as big about the whole redemption thing as he, and certainly I would be regretting the lack of a "crimes against humanity and Wookkiedom and whatnot" trial. Still, it was his father, and I'd understand that, too.

Tucson_Tim
2007-May-29, 04:39 AM
... what did all of his fellow rebels think about him bringing the body of the guy that caused them so much grief over the years to their little party to give him a proper funeral?

I recall reading that Luke told the Ewoks that Darth Vader was still alive - that's why they allowed him to be burned, but being the decent little critters they were, they didn't want to watch.

Paul Beardsley
2007-May-29, 07:05 AM
I recall reading that Luke told the Ewoks that Darth Vader was still alive - that's why they allowed him to be burned, but being the decent little critters they were, they didn't want to watch.

Hang on, these are the Ewoks that wanted to set fire to Luke and his party as soon as they arrived on Endor, right?

Maksutov
2007-May-29, 07:34 AM
Hang on, these are the Ewoks that wanted to set fire to Luke and his party as soon as they arrived on Endor, right?And do weird things to Padmé (in effigy as it were).

BTW, the writers missed the reference to Om mani padme hum, which invokes wisdom and generosity.

Maksutov
2007-May-29, 08:09 AM
Oh yeah, one other thing. For humans 29.5 C isn't exactly within the temperature realm of cryonics.

Damien Evans
2007-May-29, 08:15 AM
SW fan here. Saw that program too. My thoughts:

1) Luke told them Vader was his father; of Vader's change of heart and how he'd actually saved Luke's life and destroyed the Emperor.
2) The other rebels are mature, reasonable and respectful enough of Luke to leave him in peace to say farewell to father as he desired.

Or maybe he did "just kind of sneak it in." Why wasn't Leia seen at the pyre, standing near or beside Luke? At that point had Luke informed her of their father's identity? Seems not.

Yes, he had

I can't remember exactly when but he did tell her that Vader was his father, and he told her that she was his sister

putting two and two together...

Paul Beardsley
2007-May-29, 08:53 AM
And do weird things to Padmé (in effigy as it were).
Presumably that was in the most recent film?

Not only have I not seen it, I can't even remember its title. Despite being a bit of a fan back in the 70s and 80s. Hah! I bet George Lucas will be losing sleep if he reads this!

Ronald Brak
2007-May-29, 10:30 AM
Actually, if you prod the internet it will cough up stuff about how all life on Endor was doomed due to debris from the death star. Some nerds, I mean dedicated Star Wars fans, calculated that it would coat Endor in a layer of ash 4 feet deep or something.

Maksutov
2007-May-29, 12:12 PM
All depends on in which direction the "concussion ring" went.

We all know that explosions are inherently two-dimensional.

Palomar
2007-May-29, 01:19 PM
Yes, he had

I can't remember exactly when but he did tell her that Vader was his father, and he told her that she was his sister

putting two and two together...

I remember him telling her they were siblings, but not that Vader was his (their) father. But OTOH it's been quite a while since I've watched the films of the original trilogy. I prefer Episodes II & III; young Obi-Wan and handsome Anakin. ;) Also, Clone Wars novels have been taking up quite a bit of my SW time.

novaderrik
2007-May-29, 07:17 PM
And do weird things to Padmé (in effigy as it were).

BTW, the writers missed the reference to Om mani padme hum, which invokes wisdom and generosity.

i don't recall Padme being on Endor with the Ewoks. not even in the newer releases of Jedi.
in fact, hadn't she been dead for twenty something years at that point?

mr obvious
2007-May-29, 11:45 PM
I'm guessing Maksutov meant Leia, e.g., Padme in effigy. After all, what would a bunch of 2-3' tall Ewoks be doing with a full dress that fits Leia? Or was there some mad seamstress-ing going on? I doubt Leia was carrying it in a side pocket...

toolazytotypemyname
2007-May-30, 02:24 AM
or did he just kind of sneak it in and not tell anyone what he was doing?

He used the Jedi mind trick.

"This isn't the Darth Vader you're looking for"

MrClean
2007-May-30, 03:21 AM
Well, seeings how the Jedi were pretty much space age samurai's and they respect a worthy opponent, giving Darth a proper burial wouldn't be out of the question. In fact, it'd probably be expected.

When they shot the Red Baron down, they gave him a funeral with full honors. Even more recently I believe that Sadam was given a proper funeral after they hung him. Sentance was passed, he paid his dept, respect the dead.

novaderrik
2007-May-30, 05:48 AM
how many non Jedi would be willing to give Vader respect? he was, after all, the right hand man of the Emperor they were fighting against. it's not like he was just some soldier that happened to be on the other side. but maybe they had so much respect for Luke that they just kind of let him do whatever he felt he needed to do.
and also, i have to wonder how many people had a general distrust of Luke once they found out that Vader was his father, if indeed the secret was ever let out.
it's weird, but the more i think about those movies- and, well, every other movie and tv that touches on these subjects- the more i wonder how it would go down in the real world with people being people and what not..

Delvo
2007-May-30, 12:43 PM
Burning might not have been a sign of respect at all to him/them. It might even be a form of desecration.

Moose
2007-May-30, 01:59 PM
Burning might not have been a sign of respect at all to him/them. It might even be a form of desecration.

So Luke was performing the SW equivalent of a tea-bagging*?

I think Luke set the pyre a discreet distance away without telling anybody so as to avoid rubberneckers. He showed up at the party a bit later.

* ... And would that mean the Emperor was camping? (Palpatine: "It's a legitimate strategy!")

Matherly
2007-May-30, 03:06 PM
how many non Jedi would be willing to give Vader respect?

And how many non-Jedi could have stopped Luke from giving Vader respect? Telekinesis + Mind Tricks + Precog Reflexes + Light Sabre = Bad Mojo

Moose
2007-May-30, 03:24 PM
Not to mention the whining: "But I waaaaaaannnaaaa set my Dad on fiiiiiiiireeee!"

Matherly
2007-May-30, 05:38 PM
Not to mention the whining: "But I waaaaaaannnaaaa set my Dad on fiiiiiiiireeee!"

Oh, I had forgotten about that. Luke is as strong in the Jedi Whining Techniques as his father was.

Tucson_Tim
2007-May-30, 05:58 PM
I prefer Episodes II & III; young Obi-Wan and handsome Anakin. ;)

Eeewww! Please, Palomar, say it ain't so. :)

I've tried to watch I, II, and III and just cannot sit through them. How can a director with that much clout and money, with all those excellent actors, and one of the best CGI firms in the world at his finger tips, create such slightly-better-than-mediocre movies? :confused:

Palomar
2007-May-30, 07:05 PM
Eeewww! Please, Palomar, say it ain't so. :)

*so*! :lol: Hayden Christensen is so handsome. And he's a better actor than most people give him credit for. And yes, I do like Ewan McGregor's portrayal of the young Obi-Wan; when his casting was first announced I knew he was the right choice. He certainly could be aged to look a lot like Sir Alec, and of course he's a fine actor. I also enjoyed Natalie Portman's portrayal of Padme; she's more of an interesting overall character than Leia. Especially when she tells Anakin no, they cannot have a relationship; she cannot condone the idea of a secret romance. And we know the rest of the story...


I've tried to watch I, II, and III and just cannot sit through them.

I don't care for Episode I (though I did purchase it just last evening, to have the complete set).


How can a director with that much clout and money, with all those excellent actors, and one of the best CGI firms in the world at his finger tips, create such slightly-better-than-mediocre movies? :confused:

Does this mean you didn't like Jar Jar Binks?? ;) To a point I agree.

Gillianren
2007-May-30, 07:40 PM
Oh, I had forgotten about that. Luke is as strong in the Jedi Whining Techniques as his father was.

Oh, yeah. (The only Luke Skywalker impersonation I do is whining about power convertors. I don't sound like Luke at all--wrong vocal cord length and chest shape--but I've got the whining down.)

Side note, while I'm at it--there's a Star Wars drinking game that involves drinking whenever Luke whines. I don't advise doing it for A New Hope.

Maksutov
2007-May-31, 09:25 AM
[edit]Side note, while I'm at it--there's a Star Wars drinking game that involves drinking whenever Luke whines. I don't advise doing it for A New Hope.Given the appropriate beverage, would that be the Jedi Wining Technique?

Meanwhile, one wonders how George Lucas came up with the name "Luke" for his hero.

:think:

Maksutov
2007-May-31, 09:34 AM
Not to mention the whining: "But I waaaaaaannnaaaa set my Dad on fiiiiiiiireeee!"Why do I suddenly hear The Ink Spots (http://www.umkc.edu/lib/spec-col/ww2/1939/idontwant.htm) intoning


I just want to set my Dad on fire...

Grand Admiral Thrawn
2007-Jun-01, 04:33 AM
They probably thought "Burn Baby Burn!"

DroneFour
2007-Jun-10, 07:03 AM
I bet it smelled real bad there. Imagine all the plastic, leather, and...Anakin, burning. No wonder nobody else was there.

Ara Pacis
2007-Jun-10, 07:33 AM
Perhaps the midichlorians oxidize at a higher temperature and incinerate the toxic byproducts of the plastics.

jamesabrown
2007-Jun-11, 04:03 PM
Hang on, these are the Ewoks that wanted to set fire to Luke and his party as soon as they arrived on Endor, right?

That was for a religious ceremony so that's different.

Moose
2007-Jun-11, 04:06 PM
I bet it smelled real bad there. Imagine all the plastic, leather, and...Anakin, burning. No wonder nobody else was there.

I'm told it smelled "like feet... wrapped in leathery, burnt bacon". Go figure.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-11, 06:13 PM
I bet it smelled real bad there. Imagine all the plastic, leather, and...Anakin, burning. No wonder nobody else was there.

It only looked like plastic. Vader's armor is actually an advanced composite that when burned smells like fresh-baked cinnamon buns.

Mmm... Burning Vader...

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-11, 08:33 PM
It only looked like plastic. Vader's armor is actually an advanced composite that when burned smells like fresh-baked cinnamon buns.

Mmm... Burning Vader...
Luke, Vader doesn't smell like cinnamon because he's just a piece of plastic :)

PhantomWolf
2007-Jun-15, 05:03 AM
They knew, they just weren't interested in attending the funeral. It's actually an interesting contrast between Vader in 6 and Qui-Gon in 1. Qui-Gon had a huge funeral with Galatic Senators and Jedi in attendance. Anakin's had just one person. Not even his own daughter wasn't there.

Leia did know that Vader was her father at that point. Luke had told her that Vader was his father and that they were sibblings, so she knew. If you read the novel, she also knew about the funeral and had no interest in being there. She never felt any connection to Anakin as Luke did, and it wasn't till a long time later (after she'd married Han and they were visiting Tatooine) that she really come to get some understanding of who Anakin was, and even came to forgive him.