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SkepticJ
2007-Jun-06, 10:22 PM
It seems like in every movie where there's a dolphin or a chimpanzee, one or more of the characters will refer to them as a fish or a monkey, and someone (usually a scientist character, who happens to work with the animals in question) corrects them (sometimes--actually most of the time--in a rude manner). Perhaps my view of people is skewed, since I try not to hang about with people who are uneducated, but are most people that ignorant? Is it supposed to be funny that a character doesn't know the difference? What's the point of keeping this cliché going, which is has been doing since at least the '70s?


This doesn't only happen in sci-fi--but from my reckoning this is where it started--whenever a ship, building, whatever with electrical technology in it is hit by a weapon, the electronics burst into sparks, flames etc. Sometimes even large chunks of foam that look very much like fake rocks explode out. Why there's explosives inside, why such high voltage and amperage is flowing through computers and pieces of technology with ambiguous function and why there's no circuit breakers is never explained. Seems like a problem someone in the fictional universes would want to fix, since it happens so often.


Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets girl back, they live happily ever after. Done. To. Death. There's a few movies with this formula that I like--such as Say Anything...--but it has very un-cliché plot points that offset this cliché. Plus the acting is great.

What about boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy finds someone else? Or boy meets girl, boy figures out she's possessive and kinda crazy, so breaks up with her and finds someone else. Or girl meets boy, girl falls for another girl, so breaks up with boy. Or girl meets girl, girl dies tragically, other girl kills herself because of the resulting depression. Or simply boy meets girl, they stay together and have a life of ups and downs like most people, then maybe get divorced ten years latter, "Because the magic's gone."

Lord Jubjub
2007-Jun-06, 10:52 PM
Neverending gun magazine.

Gillianren
2007-Jun-06, 11:09 PM
Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets girl back, they live happily ever after. Done. To. Death. There's a few movies with this formula that I like--such as Say Anything...--but it has very un-cliché plot points that offset this cliché. Plus the acting is great.

I love that movie. The plot, however--the "boy meets girl" aspects of it--has been going for literally thousands of years. Large amounts of great literature have that plot.

Ilya
2007-Jun-06, 11:14 PM
I love that movie. The plot, however--the "boy meets girl" aspects of it--has been going for literally thousands of years. Large amounts of great literature have that plot.

Exactly. It Has Been Done To Death!

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-06, 11:23 PM
Heinlein said human interest stories normally fall into three categories:

1) Boy meets girl

2) The Little Tailor (Someone who succeeds against great odds, or Big Guy brought down to size).

3) The man who learned better.

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-06, 11:36 PM
Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets girl back, they live happily ever after. Done. To. Death.


In fairness, the timespan of the portrayed story in a movie is usually too short to really cover the "live happily ever after" part. It usually is "They were happy for the hours/days indicated in the movie." People usually don't want to think about what might happen after the characters have been together for a few months or years (especially given the number of characters that appear to be about as long-term compatible as oil and water). Unrealistic? Sure, but reality can be a bit depressing for a movie.

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-06, 11:51 PM
This doesn't only happen in sci-fi--but from my reckoning this is where it started--whenever a ship, building, whatever with electrical technology in it is hit by a weapon, the electronics burst into sparks, flames etc.


I get tired of that too. It's a stylized shortcut for showing "something bad is happening." As a shortcut, it really isn't much different from the giant sweat drop, face fault, or bloody nose in anime. It still gets old.

I'm tired of time travel stories in general (books or movies) unless they have a new take on it. "Groundhog Day" and "Time travel as Deus ex machina" stories are insanely overdone.

Peter Wilson
2007-Jun-07, 12:07 AM
One of my biggest dissapointments growing up is discovering that coyotes never hunt or eat road-runners :boohoo:

Romanus
2007-Jun-07, 12:31 AM
Capital post!

What about boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy finds someone else? Or boy meets girl, boy figures out she's possessive and kinda crazy, so breaks up with her and finds someone else.

I can deal with "boy meets girl", though truth be told I watch romances only on other people's time, if you catch my drift.

What I can't stand in the genre, however, is the "chase". We all know it: the two lovebirds are depressed because they've "broken up". One is about to go off to Timbuctoo forever, and the other is just fine with that. Until they have The Talk with a supporting character who tells them that they really *do* love so-and-so, and hence the "chase". The boy/girl/whoever blunders through a chase scene to their one true love, often with a wacky supporting cast in tow, until there is the inevitable hug and kiss at a bus stop, a train station, or especially an airport. See: just about every boy-meets-girl movie over the past 20-30 years. I myself first noticed it in "Crocodile Dundee", which I otherwise enjoyed.

There are good romances though, that stay good without straying too far from the formula. I recently saw "The Waitress" (in theaters as of this post) with a friend, a romance with an interesting, morally-ambiguous twist on the genre.

Other clichés:

--I've probably posted about this one before, but here goes: the ten-second time bomb. That is, every single time bomb the hero finds will be found within a minute of going off, and will be defused within ten. If the villain finds it, there will only be a few seconds left. I'm so over this one...there's a hilarious but easily-missed parody of this shameless plot catalyst in "Team America".

--The comeback. This one is ubiquitous in action movies: the hero gets the life nearly pummeled out of him by the villain, but then suddenly turns the tables on his opponent and wins. Tied into this is death style: the villain must always have a spectacular death (falling into helicopter rotors in "The Last Boy Scout"). The hero must always have a pathetic or noble death, preferably with a last line or gasp.("The Wrath of Khan", anyone?)

--The token scientist. A staple of sci-fi and horror films, this character usually wears a white coat, and is onscreen just long enough to bamboozle the protagonists with their technobabble and findings on species/weapon/technology X. Look for lots of Latinate words.

--The mother of all clichés: the perfect method of execution, which must involve a long delay, many steps, and supervision--if any--by insufferable dolts. No firing squads here!

I could go on and on...

SeanF
2007-Jun-07, 12:34 AM
Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets girl back, they live happily ever after.
Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

Occam
2007-Jun-07, 12:42 AM
How about the scumbag who does one halfway decent thing and is automatically elevated to hero?

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 12:53 AM
How about the terrible beatings and punishment the hero can withstand:

- Falling from a height and saved by grabbing onto some magical thing with one hand. Something that even an Olympic-caliber gymnast couldn't do.

- Taking a beating that would put 10 men in the hospital and come out of it with all his teeth and still able to defeat 20 more villians.

ADDED: Also the hero's aim with weapons is superb but all the villians couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from 10 feet away.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 12:56 AM
...Gunshot wounds or brutal beatings that are quickly (next scene) recovered from, to the point where Our Hero can beat up ten more generic henchmen.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-07, 12:58 AM
For me, it's gotta be the "I can't stop gloating" bad guy. He's finally got the good guy at bay. All he has to do is pull the trigger and it's 'Goodbye Mr. Bond.' But no. First, the smug, gloating, self-congratuatory speech. "For too long you have foiled my designs, but now we know who's vision will be rewarded by..... Invariably this gives our hero time to come up with a cunning plan to turn the tables, or time for the sidekick/heroine to knock the baddie over the head with a heavy prop.

They had a term for it in The Incredibles. They called it "monologuing."

"He starts monologuing! He starts this, like, prepared speech about how "feeble" I am compared to him, how 'inevitable" my defeat is, how "the world will soon be his,' yadda yadda yadda. "

Love that movie. :D

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-07, 01:01 AM
A couple more:

The villain that is Just Evil. That is, he doesn't have any justification for what he is doing, he just does bad things so The Hero has somebody to fight.

The evil government agents going after the good ET, preferably for dissection, with no concern that ETs that could manage to get here could also make WWIII look like a fun day in the park if we annoyed them sufficiently.

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 01:03 AM
how about mad scientists.

Gillianren
2007-Jun-07, 01:06 AM
I'm reading a book right now about the portrayal of librarians in film (because I read a lot of books about film), and I have to say, the book's right. Not all librarians wear glasses, are middle-aged, and perpetually wear their hair in buns. Not all librarians dress frumpily. Not all librarians are dour spinsters who go around shushing people all the time. (As in, I followed a friend of mine to work at the library the other day, and she was wearing a very bright skirt, no glasses, and her hair down. I chatted with her as she shelved and shelf-read, and one of the things we talked about was her boyfriend. And she's younger than I am.)

Come to that, all smart women in film have glasses, even if they don't always wear them.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-07, 01:07 AM
how about mad scientists.
But "mad" only because their petty and jealous peers who cast them out can't understand their genius. :D

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 01:11 AM
But "mad" only because their petty and jealous peers who cast them out can't understand their genius. :D
Don't I know it.:whistle:

mr obvious
2007-Jun-07, 02:12 AM
Plus, these 'mad scientists' mysteriously tend to work on things involving global-impact fields such as high-energy or lethal pathogens that can cause a lot of damage.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 02:17 AM
Come to that, all smart women in film have glasses, even if they don't always wear them.

And when they take off their glasses, their hair comes down and they magically become ten times hotter.

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-07, 03:08 AM
Remembered some more:

Gunplay that doesn't obey Newtonian physics, e.g. a gunshot into the bad guy sends them backwards, but the recoil won't knock the hero on their back.

Same thing goes for martial arts moves in movies that send the attacked flying across the room, but the attacker doesn't move in the other direction.
Oh, and they get right back up after hitting said wall across the room at 40+kph.

Tranquilizers, poisons etc. that work instantly or virtually instantly.

Viruses or bacteria that upon exposure induce severe sickness within seconds to a few minutes.

Lord Jubjub
2007-Jun-07, 03:27 AM
Star Trek biology had enough barf-enducing cliches :sick: that I really don't want to think about them further.:hand:

Gillianren
2007-Jun-07, 03:37 AM
And when they take off their glasses, their hair comes down and they magically become ten times hotter.

Quite. And, of course, they never have to show knowledge in their field, just assert that they're part of it. (I wish my best friend would stop going on about how unbelievable Denise Richards was as a nuclear physicist.)

Speaking of things getting on people's nerves, can a mod fix the thread title?

novaderrik
2007-Jun-07, 03:47 AM
just once, i'd love to see a movie that gets you REALLY involved with a character- while almost totally ignoring everyone else- only to have that character get hit by a bus or something else totally random and killed while on his way to save the world from a Flu pandemic or anything else besides middle eastern terrorists, Japanese gangsters, or corrupt former Communist officials in Russia.
this would be in the first half of the movie.
the second half of the movie would be about what the world was like for some random people that managed to survive it all- and they aren't from one of the major population centers, but rather from a small town somewhere that isn't full of people that are like what people in big cities on either coast think people in small towns are like.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 04:02 AM
(I wish my best friend would stop going on about how unbelievable Denise Richards was as a nuclear physicist.)


Actually, she was just a nuc-u-lar physicist. :)

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 04:08 AM
How about looking into an eyepeice of a telescope and able to determine what is going on.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 04:09 AM
Hackers who type randomly for thirty seconds and say, "We're in!"

Maksutov
2007-Jun-07, 04:20 AM
Well, there are lots of movie clichés that get on my nerves, but I can't list them here, because there are some things man was not meant to know.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 04:28 AM
Hackers who type randomly for thirty seconds and say, "We're in!"

Like in Independence Day where Jeff Goldblum was able to plant a virus into the entire alien fleet. :) Of course, since the aliens forgot to bring along their own satellites, they had to use ours, which gave us a backdoor into their system...

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 04:37 AM
And of course, the aliens who used mentally controlled bio-armor had joysticks to fly their spaceships.

Not to mention having never invented even the most rudimentary military tactics-- if you have a giant laser(ish) weapon, stay in orbit and use it! Don't send down your "artillery" into attack range of Earth fighter planes! Don't send snub fighters to be conveniently shot down and analyzed! Don't have a single central computer controlling your defense shields!

--But of course, if they did that, there'd be no way for the heroes to defeat them just in time.

Gemini
2007-Jun-07, 04:42 AM
How about looking into an eyepeice of a telescope and able to determine what is going on.

Professor Farnsworth (looking through large telescope at the moon): Fry and Leela are in trouble. I ought to do something!....but I am in my pajamas (falls asleep)

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 04:49 AM
And of course, the aliens who used mentally controlled bio-armor had joysticks to fly their spaceships.

Not to mention having never invented even the most rudimentary military tactics-- if you have a giant laser(ish) weapon, stay in orbit and use it! Don't send down your "artillery" into attack range of Earth fighter planes! Don't send snub fighters to be conveniently shot down and analyzed! Don't have a single central computer controlling your defense shields!

--But of course, if they did that, there'd be no way for the heroes to defeat them just in time.

Yep. One of their city-sized ships brought down by a drunk Randy Quaid with one little air-to-air missile. What an embarassment for them. It's lucky they died because they couldn't return home to the laughter....

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 04:49 AM
Hackers who type randomly for thirty seconds and say, "We're in!"
Some of the 3D graphics used to symbolize them hacking.

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 04:52 AM
The super genius that knows everything.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 04:54 AM
Here's a recurring theme: Hero gets himself almost killed by the bad guys (sometimes his whole family is also killed); hero gets better (sometimes with the help of a beautiful nurse); hero works out; hero kills all the bad guys.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 04:56 AM
Here's a recurring theme: Hero gets himself almost killed by the bad guys (sometimes his whole family is also killed); hero gets better (sometimes with the help of a beautiful nurse); hero works out; hero kills all the bad guys.

With the inevitable inspiring-music training montage while he's working up to the comeback.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 04:58 AM
With the inevitable inspiring-music training montage while he's working up to the comeback.

Like in Team America: World Police. :)

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 05:00 AM
The bad guy who comes back to life, usually in series or tv shows.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-07, 05:08 AM
Yeah! Also in those ridiculous Freddy/Halloween/etc. movies.

And Friday the Thirteenth. Pure quality. :D

Josh
2007-Jun-07, 05:14 AM
Gunplay that doesn't obey Newtonian physics, e.g. a gunshot into the bad guy sends them backwards, but the recoil won't knock the hero on their back.

Same thing goes for martial arts moves in movies that send the attacked flying across the room, but the attacker doesn't move in the other direction.
Oh, and they get right back up after hitting said wall across the room at 40+kph.


I agree with the other stuff you wrote but hitting someone is different to shooting a gun. Hitting a person is like hitting a tennis ball with a racquet - the racquet doesn't fly backwards. I have seen people fly away at various speeds and distances and the person doing the hitting staying put. The "opposite action" part of that equation comes before the hit when the person is winding up to make the hit in the first place.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 05:16 AM
And Friday the Thirteenth. Pure quality. :D

And the pinnacle of the series, Jason X, in which we get... Nano-Jason!

Identity 4
2007-Jun-07, 06:04 AM
uuuugh...yeah....lets see:

Crazy guy with machete.
Crazy guy with machete slices up teens, then gets killed.
Crazy guy with machete slices up more teens, then gets killed....again
Crazy guy with machete fights madman with knife fingers and an xmas sweater...
and finally....
Crazy guy with machete in space. The final frontier....of Crazy guy with machete....hahaha

My personal pet peave: hero can always smath thru a plate glass window without getting a scratch. I NEED to figure out what soap they must use..haha

-=Identity 4=-

Noclevername
2007-Jun-07, 07:03 AM
The gunshot wounds or brutal beatings that are simply forgotten by the next scene, often to the point where the hero can beat up a dozen anonymous henchmen immediately afterwards.

(The most egregious example I saw was in the otherwise horrible Starship Poopers, I mean Troopers, where Denise Richards' character was impaled throught the shoulder with a roughly 3-4 inch diameter Bug claw, lifted up and dragged around by it, and then minutes later was literally throwing her arms around the shoulders of the male leads while smiling and laughing. Man, what painkillers they must have in the future...)

Eroica
2007-Jun-07, 07:55 AM
Sound travelling at the speed of light in a vacuum.

Technobabble being explained in terms of a simple analogy, to which another character invariably replies, "Exactly!"

Tog
2007-Jun-07, 07:56 AM
You never want to the friend/mentor/pet of the hero in a martial arts movie. You will die or be beaten so badly you'll wish you were dead. This will inspire the sweat filled work out scene before the triumphant return, however. This was even done in the movie Ring of Steel which was a cage fighting type movie done with swords. The hero was an Olympic fencer. Great sword play in that one.

The hero will never be able to defeat the final bad guy through strength or skill alone. Instead, he uses quick wits or gimmicks, such as throwing a bit of chain at a leaking propane tank to cause a spark and blow up the bad guy. The Perfect Weapon, or get the bad guy in a spot where he gets electrocuted by the third rail of the train in Chicago, then gets hit by a train. Rapid Fire.

No matter how bad things seem, the answer can be found in a flashback.

Semi auto pistols do not click when they run out of bullets. The slide locks back and the hammer cannot fall. The only kind that do that are broken.

Save the dog! No, don't save the dog. Okay once. But the second time the dog leaps out of the truck in the middle of the lava flow, evoke the Darwin rule. We had a movie critic that was inspired by Dante's Peak to award a 1/2 star bonus to any film where the dog died.

An untrained person with a submachine gun will never hit a friendly. King Kong (remake), I, Robot.

Tom Cruise plays a cocky, young guy. (Thanks to the Amazing Jonathan for that one)

For a movie that had a character that was developed well, then was killed at a really unusual time, Deep Blue Sea. It was basically the step of the curb and get hit by a bus thing.

Click Ticker
2007-Jun-07, 01:00 PM
Here's a recurring theme: Hero gets himself almost killed by the bad guys (sometimes his whole family is also killed); hero gets better (sometimes with the help of a beautiful nurse); hero works out; hero kills all the bad guys.

Every Steven Seagal movie ever made. We used to joke about the plots. "They killed his wife; again. They killed his child; again. They nearly killed him; again...."

Delvo
2007-Jun-07, 01:14 PM
Some of the 3D graphics used to symbolize them hacking....especially when projected onto the computer user's face in detail.

One that's bugged me since I noticed it while I kept my hair very short (sometimes called "bald" but not really) was that shaven or short-buzzed white guys are always trouble. If they're not racists or Nazis, then they're the guys who whip Jesus, or bounty hunters, or hitmen, or former soldiers who've gone renegade... Even in commercials that are supposed to be funny, bumping into a bald or nearly bald (and young) white guy is a symbol for accidentally getting yourself in deep trouble, because he's obviously going to attack the main character for bumping into him, because that's what shaven/buzzed white guys do.

The worst one of the "boy meets girl" variations y'all were talking about before is the one in which the perfectly good boy who's supposed to be the type that the girl wants, but clearly isn't since that's not the kind the girl really shows any interest in, ends up getting the girl anyway because she completely reverses herself in the end (for no reason and without real-world precedent). Like the thing about bald white guys, my irritation with this cliché could also be due to experience: I'm sick and tired of everyone telling me that what girls/women really want is a guy whose description happens to sound just like me, as if I couldn't see for myself how things really work in the world around me. I have a thing about being lied to (including on subjects where the truth they're trying to protect me from is actually OK in itself).

Larry Jacks
2007-Jun-07, 01:29 PM
One of my biggest pet peeves include spy agencies that have hundreds of spy satellites apparently stationed over everywhere so they can instantly zoom in on and track the movement of cars (with resolution good enough to read license plates) as in "Enemy of the State" and "24".

Then there's the hero who gets shot in the chest, only to appear in the next scene wearing a magic sling that can cure everything.

Another is the lonely hero finally finds someone to love only to have her killed off a few minutes later.

Explosions in space, janking and banking like a fighter in a vacuum, dodging a ray gun that shoots at the speed of light - those are too engrained to ever get them out of science fiction movies.

Oh, did someone mention "I need a montage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zixAjmrmn6g)" from Team America? Great stuff.

NEOWatcher
2007-Jun-07, 01:41 PM
One of my biggest pet peeves include spy agencies that have hundreds of spy satellites apparently stationed over everywhere so they can instantly zoom in on and track the movement of cars (with resolution good enough to read license plates) as in "Enemy of the State" and "24".
Oh, come now. They don't all depict that kind of resolution. Some of them use image enhancement. ;)

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 01:56 PM
...dodging a ray gun that shoots at the speed of light - those are too engrained to ever get them out of science fiction movies.



I'm getting a little off the subject here. Sorry. But this dodging phasers is what Star Trek TNG is all about. Don't get me wrong - I love ST:TNG - but some of the episodes there are two parties shooting at each other with hand phasers and the beam flows across the room, slow enough to dodge, and then just makes a little black mark on the wall. Give me a 44 Magnum or an Uzi and you can have this little hand phaser!

And in Star Wars, as Larry references above, give me an AK47 and see if ObieWan can block every bullet with his light sabre.

UPDATE: Corrected the spelling of 'phaser', per NEOWatcher.

NEOWatcher
2007-Jun-07, 02:03 PM
I'm getting a little off the subject here. Sorry. But this dodging fazers is what Star Trek TNG is all about.
Why would you dodge one of our senior members (http://www.bautforum.com/member.php?u=15771)? :D
Besides, the actual spelling is Fazor. ;)

Or are you talking about that "ph" thing that shoots lights. :think:

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 02:15 PM
Besides, the actual spelling is Fazor. ;)


Thanks Mom. I really hate misspelling made-up words that only appear in geeky SciFi shows. :lol:

BTW, is it always capitalized?

captain swoop
2007-Jun-07, 02:43 PM
The super genius that knows everything.

Stephen Fry you mean?

captain swoop
2007-Jun-07, 02:47 PM
[quote]Don't have a single central computer controlling your defense shields![quote/]

Like on a nimitz class Carrier you mean? it can choose from any of the weeopns in it's Task force and engage an incoming target with the one it thinks best, even if it's pn a different ship.

NEOWatcher
2007-Jun-07, 02:52 PM
The super genius that knows everything.
Tephen Fry you mean?
Or the corellary of the past ideas that seem unbelievable now.
I can think of ST examples of (paraphrased):

Spock: I believe they had something called a clutch. [Kirk then knows how to drive even though he's not very good]

Picard: Imagine flying with nothing to hold you up except a single propeller.

Tom Paris: (digging around in a found pickup) There should be keys in here somewhere.

The last one was particularly troublesome. Why would an abductee bother to put his car keys on the visor?

captain swoop
2007-Jun-07, 03:02 PM
No matter how fast the Hero runs the Monster is right behind him even though it just shambles along.

Also no matter how far you run nad hide the bad guys is alwayas waiting. Like he is walking through a forest and the bad guy is up the exact tree he stops under out of the thousands close by.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 03:03 PM
Like on a nimitz class Carrier you mean? it can choose from any of the weapons in it's Task force and engage an incoming target with the one it thinks best, even if it's on a different ship.


That's what the ST Enterprise needs! Some 21st century technology. How many times has the starship been damaged because someone didn't get the shields raised quickly enough?

Matherly
2007-Jun-07, 04:46 PM
From my wife: The James Bond girl who is supposed to be scary deadly, but spends the entire film squeeling lines like "Oh James! Save me!"
(The Spy Who Loved Me is typically the film cited as the worst offender. And she has to admit that this particular cliche seems to have fallen out of use in the last 10 years or so).

From me: "Reset Button" storytelling. Or, as one of the Simpsons once said "I have faith that everything will return to exactly the same way it was at the beginning of today"

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 04:54 PM
No matter how fast the Hero runs the Monster is right behind him even though it just shambles along.


A Monster corollary: When there's a monster running loose, no matter what you have to do (usually in the darkest area of the building/ship/etc.), break up into small groups of one or two each.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 04:57 PM
Or the corellary of the past ideas that seem unbelievable now...


Should I point out that 'corollary' is misspelled? No - I'm better than that. I won't mention it... :)

NEOWatcher
2007-Jun-07, 05:05 PM
Should I point out that 'corollary' is misspelled? No - I'm better than that. I won't mention it... :)
Why not? Wii've been doing this all day to each other.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-07, 05:08 PM
Why not? Wii've been doing this all day to each other.

What do you mean wii sir? Oh, maybe just a wii bit. :)

korjik
2007-Jun-07, 06:58 PM
Mine is when the aliens attack and they are automatically immune to everything that humanity can throw at them.

I have a feeling that the new transformers movie is going to be bad this way. The dont have to do much, but getting a 120mm APFSDS shot into you should at least be inconvienent.

tofu
2007-Jun-07, 07:04 PM
Whenever you fly into or out of the solar system you *always* pass Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

When the Borg first attacked Earth, I remember some character saying something about the "Mars defense post"

tofu
2007-Jun-07, 07:08 PM
Mine is when the aliens attack and they are automatically immune to everything that humanity can throw at them.

in my opinion, the point is drive home an idea which is very close to the hearts of most Hollywooders, that "violence never solves anything." See all those tanks and guns that you have? We told you they were worthless, and so they are.

Gillianren
2007-Jun-07, 07:42 PM
From my wife: The James Bond girl who is supposed to be scary deadly, but spends the entire film squeeling lines like "Oh James! Save me!"
(The Spy Who Loved Me is typically the film cited as the worst offender. And she has to admit that this particular cliche seems to have fallen out of use in the last 10 years or so).

Oh, it's not just in James Bond. Personally, I think Vicki Vale was a pretty serious offender, too. Ye Gods, she was supposed to have been a war correspondent. Can you imagine how many deaths she caused?

Matherly
2007-Jun-07, 08:07 PM
When the Borg first attacked Earth, I remember some character saying something about the "Mars defense post"

I actual think a Mars Defense post would be useful. Sure, you are not always going to be "in the way" of an attacker. But some rough "back of the envelope" calculations suggest that Mars is at most going to be about 60 light-minutes away. And hour to renforce Earth at Warp 1 and about 10 minutes at Warp 2 (assuming speed = Factor^3 * C) seems pretty convient to me.

This is why in Babylon 5, Sheridan's Fleet had to neutralize the EarthForce Fleet at Mars Colony before jumping to Earth. If they hadn't, they would have been counter attacked by the Mars Fleet while they were engaged with the Earth Defenses.

Delvo
2007-Jun-07, 09:49 PM
That Star Trek reference was actually about a "perimeter", not a post.

captain swoop
2007-Jun-07, 09:52 PM
So why not keep the Fleet at Earth and than it doesn't have to take any time to get here?

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Jun-07, 10:17 PM
There is the dumb father/husband cliche, and all guys think about the same all the time.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-07, 10:35 PM
Here's the problem with a "Mars Defense Post" (drawing NTS):

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/6236/attackdirectionbo6.th.jpg (http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attackdirectionbo6.jpg)

You just always attack from the equivalent of direction "A", each time taking Mars out of the equation.

That's for two dimensions. If the attackers are really advanced, they'll attack from above or below the plane of the Solar System, once again taking Mars out of the equation every time.

Infinity Watcher
2007-Jun-07, 11:01 PM
Here's the problem with a "Mars Defense Post" (drawing NTS):

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/6236/attackdirectionbo6.th.jpg (http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attackdirectionbo6.jpg)

You just always attack from the equivalent of direction "A", each time taking Mars out of the equation.

That's for two dimensions. If the attackers are really advanced, they'll attack from above or below the plane of the Solar System, once again taking Mars out of the equation every time.

A lot of the stuff in this thread I agree with, but I'm going to nitpick this one since according to memory alpha (no I'm not admitting to knowing of it's existence, I'm not that big a geek, honestly! :shifty:) the reference was to a " Mars defence perimeter (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Mars_Defense_Perimeter)" which could be acceptable if they were referring to a series of space stations or ships maintained in a sphere with a radius equivalent to approximately Mars orbit, something like that could quickly acquire the name the "Mars defence perimeter" to distinguish it from any other defence perimeters in the system, and would be as good a way of naming it as any (except maybe a numerical system starting from either the edge of the system or from Earth).

Great :doh:, I never thought I'd see the day I started apologising for Star Trek. I'm normally too much of a Star Wars fan but I like both.

Matherly
2007-Jun-08, 01:00 AM
So why not keep the Fleet at Earth and than it doesn't have to take any time to get here?

To keep Mars colony from being turned into a smoking crater?

Matherly
2007-Jun-08, 01:01 AM
Here's the problem with a "Mars Defense Post"


Did you read what I said about Mars to Earth in 10 minutes at Warp 2?

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-08, 01:06 AM
One other cliche that the Bond films tended to be guilty of was the vast, sprawling but secret bad guy lair built under a volcano...or on a desert island, or in the Amazon Forest, or in space...but always somehow constructed, completed and paid for in complete secret, so no government knows of it's existence. Must just be a matter of paying off the right people. ;)

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-08, 01:14 AM
A couple more:

Risking everyone on a ship/in a city/in the world on an almost impossible scheme to save one person. The crazy scheme works, and the person who almost killed everybody is congratulated for thier insanity rather than put away somewhere safe.

Along the same lines: Taking time to help an injured person, and talking as if it really matters, when based on the evidence everyone is going to die in about a minute anyway.

Krel
2007-Jun-08, 03:55 AM
Whenever you fly into or out of the solar system you *always* pass Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.


What? You've never taken the scenic route in any of your travels? If you're going somewhere far away, you might as well take in the local sites.

A movie I love is "The Green Slime". It is the first sf movie I ever saw at the show, and two things about the move I find amazing. The first is Robert Horton's indestructable, immovable hair, no matter what he does, no hair gets out of shape. And the fact that EVERYONE in the movie makes the wrong decisions.

David.

Gillianren
2007-Jun-08, 09:11 AM
One other cliche that the Bond films tended to be guilty of was the vast, sprawling but secret bad guy lair built under a volcano...or on a desert island, or in the Amazon Forest, or in space...but always somehow constructed, completed and paid for in complete secret, so no government knows of it's existence. Must just be a matter of paying off the right people. ;)

They're available for rent in the Kim Possible universe.

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-08, 03:17 PM
One other cliche that the Bond films tended to be guilty of was the vast, sprawling but secret bad guy lair built under a volcano...or on a desert island, or in the Amazon Forest, or in space...but always somehow constructed, completed and paid for in complete secret, so no government knows of it's existence. Must just be a matter of paying off the right people. ;)
Contractors. Ever seen Clerks? ;)

tofu
2007-Jun-08, 04:17 PM
oh, here's a good one - your enemy is always in visual range. This applies to space battles, especially star trek, but also applies to depictions of air-to-air combat. The first example that pops into my head was from Clear and Present Danger, where the Backfire bombers flight right over the carrier. In reality, they would launch their ordinance while still *way* out of visual range.

Actually, Battlestar Galactica deserves major kudos for making their bridge more like a CIC. The Captain stares at a computer screen rather than out a window. Star Trek occasionally used "tactical view" as well.

SeanF
2007-Jun-08, 04:34 PM
A lot of the stuff in this thread I agree with, but I'm going to nitpick this one since according to memory alpha (no I'm not admitting to knowing of it's existence, I'm not that big a geek, honestly! :shifty:) the reference was to a " Mars defence perimeter (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Mars_Defense_Perimeter)" which could be acceptable if they were referring to a series of space stations or ships maintained in a sphere with a radius equivalent to approximately Mars orbit, something like that could quickly acquire the name the "Mars defence perimeter" to distinguish it from any other defence perimeters in the system, and would be as good a way of naming it as any (except maybe a numerical system starting from either the edge of the system or from Earth).
Yes, but the battle (such as it is) between the Borg and the "Mars Defense Perimeter" takes place at Mars, involving vessels that appear to be launched from Mars - just take a look at the picture on your link. :)

Noclevername
2007-Jun-08, 04:37 PM
To keep Mars colony from being turned into a smoking crater?

Not to mention all the other extraterrestrial colonies, settlements and worlds?

Infinity Watcher
2007-Jun-08, 06:08 PM
Yes, but the battle (such as it is) between the Borg and the "Mars Defense Perimeter" takes place at Mars, involving vessels that appear to be launched from Mars - just take a look at the picture on your link. :)

Point taken as far as it goes, that it is daft to attack from the direction of a planet (although the borg have rarely shown much in the way of tactics) but my point was more that their isn't a fundamental problem with the idea of a mars defence perimeter due to the implications of the term perimeter, and that I think Utopia Planitia shipyards are in the region of Mars so ships could have been resupplying there, which could actually explain the attack being actually at Mars since it would then impact federation ship production.

Mostly however I was tired enough to only skim read the article and not bother with the picture so the above is mostly a shameless attempt at retconning what may very well have been a screw up (especially since the 3d nature of space rarely seems to figure in Star Trek).

In an attempt to maintain some kind of semblance of adherence to the thread topic for this post:

How about the fact that spaceships always seem to be in the same orientation relative to each other (unless a "fighter" craft is deliberately rolling), for allies it's just about understandable, maybe for the purposes of standardising formations you could define standard orientations but if you just run into generic enemy number 255579 you'd think that sometimes you'd be upside down relative to them. As a second point to that : the lack of using the 3rd dimension in space battles.

The above may not be that common but I haven't seen many movies recently but those are the main irritants I can think of.

NEOWatcher
2007-Jun-08, 06:15 PM
... As a second point to that : the lack of using the 3rd dimension in space battles.

The above may not be that common but I haven't seen many movies recently but those are the main irritants I can think of.

It's not like 3d battling has been around a while... Only since WWI.

Khhhaaaan...

GeorgeLeRoyTirebiter
2007-Jun-08, 06:41 PM
This one falls under the category of Bad Storytelling: the minor character who gets killed after revealing some sort of personal information in a poor attempt to make their death tragic. One egregious example is We Were Soldiers. When a member of the mortar crew told a reporter about his infant child, I knew he would die in as horrific a manner as possible. In a war movie, telling a reporter anything about yourself is suicidal, unless you're The Hero.

While I'm on the subject of war movies, it bothers me when every form of explosive detonates with the same ridiculous fireball (and without any flying shrapnel, dirt, etc.). Windtalkers is probably the worst offender. Even hand grenades exploded with a giant ball of flame.

Infinity Watcher
2007-Jun-08, 06:49 PM
This one falls under the category of Bad Storytelling: the minor character who gets killed after revealing some sort of personal information in a poor attempt to make their death tragic. One egregious example is We Were Soldiers. When a member of the mortar crew told a reporter about his infant child, I knew he would die in as horrific a manner as possible. In a war movie, telling a reporter anything about yourself is suicidal, unless you're The Hero.


Along with what I always think of as the "I'll always be there for you" curse, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one.

Larry Jacks
2007-Jun-08, 08:11 PM
Along with what I always think of as the "I'll always be there for you" curse, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one.

Nothing is as dangerous as being a black guy in a war movie. At least 90% of the time, you know he's going to die. Even Saturday Night Live mocked that cliche at least 15 years ago.

"We Were Soldiers" was based on the excellent book, "We Were Soldiers Once...and Young (http://http://www.amazon.com/We-Were-Soldiers-Once-Young/dp/034547581X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-1502059-7568423?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181333205&sr=8-2)" that was written by the Harold Moore (the commanding officer of that unit) and Joseph Galloway (the reporter). That incident just might be true in this one case.

Matherly
2007-Jun-08, 08:27 PM
This one falls under the category of Bad Storytelling: the minor character who gets killed after revealing some sort of personal information in a poor attempt to make their death tragic.

(Paraphrasing Mad Magazine's parody of "Top Gun")

Goose's Wife: What did my husband die of?
Mavrick: Terminal Cliche. As soon as you and the kid showed up, we knew he was a gonner.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-08, 08:53 PM
(Paraphrasing Mad Magazine's parody of "Top Gun")


BTW, is Mad Magazine still funny? I haven't seen one in 30 years....

Matherly
2007-Jun-08, 09:18 PM
BTW, is Mad Magazine still funny? I haven't seen one in 30 years....

Not since Bill Gaines the founder died in '92, IMHO

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-09, 01:03 AM
BTW, is Mad Magazine still funny? I haven't seen one in 30 years....

Sadly, in addition to the death of Mr. Gaines, most of the original 'gang of idiots', have long retired. I haven't picked up an issue in years.

Got to meet Bill Gaines briefly in New York in 1984. My bother was a rabid Mad Magazine collector and insisted on visiting the offices of his favorite publication. Gaine's office was bizarre down to the giant model of King Kong peering through the window. Never saw a room with soo many weird props.

Best part was they let us in the archives to paw through the orginal cartoon artwork from issues past. :)

Strider1974
2007-Jun-09, 03:55 AM
Another cliche I haven't seen mentioned is the one blow knockout. ie when the hero wants incapacitate an innocent guard, one punch is enough to knock them out cold and leave them that way.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-09, 04:09 AM
Another cliche I haven't seen mentioned is the one blow knockout. ie when the hero wants incapacitate an innocent guard, one punch is enough to knock them out cold and leave them that way.

Sort of like the Captain Kirk karate chop to the back of the neck, delivered with about enough force to (maybe) knock down someone's grandma. :)

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-09, 04:11 AM
Got to meet Bill Gaines briefly in New York in 1984.

I'm very jealous. Always loved Mad Magazine when I was growing up.

Gillianren
2007-Jun-09, 04:11 AM
There's the ever-popular "knock out a guard and steal their uniform; it'll fit." Parodied beautifully in the Indiana Jones series, where he essentially goes uniform-shopping when he picks a guard to knock out based on his size after a previous incident of having a uniform turn out to be ridiculously too small.

Thanks to whichever mod fixed the thread title.

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-09, 04:14 AM
Another cliche I haven't seen mentioned is the one blow knockout. ie when the hero wants incapacitate an innocent guard, one punch is enough to knock them out cold and leave them that way.

Strangely enough, that is possible. What's not realistic is that anybody can do it. If you can, try catching the special Fight Science on the National Geographic Channel. Some really impressive stuff trained people are able to do, and it busts some myths and shows the weaknesses of some weapons *cough* nunchaku *cough*.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-09, 06:01 AM
Did you read what I said about Mars to Earth in 10 minutes at Warp 2?Sure did. And sensors/fleet on/around Earth would be just as effective (probably more if it's Earth you're worried about) and require no warrrrp at all!

Maksutov
2007-Jun-09, 06:11 AM
A lot of the stuff in this thread I agree with, but I'm going to nitpick this one since according to memory alpha (no I'm not admitting to knowing of it's existence, I'm not that big a geek, honestly! :shifty:) the reference was to a " Mars defence perimeter (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Mars_Defense_Perimeter)" which could be acceptable if they were referring to a series of space stations or ships maintained in a sphere with a radius equivalent to approximately Mars orbit, something like that could quickly acquire the name the "Mars defence perimeter" to distinguish it from any other defence perimeters in the system, and would be as good a way of naming it as any (except maybe a numerical system starting from either the edge of the system or from Earth).

Great :doh:, I never thought I'd see the day I started apologising for Star Trek. I'm normally too much of a Star Wars fan but I like both.That's why my critique had to do with a "Mars Defense Post". A "Mars Defence Perimeter" is a different animal entirely, although I'm sure with a number of things taken into consideration such as Lagrange points and preferred numbers, it wouldn't necessary be best to have it coincide with or even be close to Mars' orbit. This meshed nicely with your idea about a numerical naming system.

Now for a real poser. Since the Earth-based protection system against other Earth-based countries was (and maybe is, has Dubya used that term for his current reincarnation?) nicknamed "Star Wars", what would this overall system be called? Galaxy Wars?

Weird Dave
2007-Jun-09, 09:20 AM
When did light bulbs start going "phoom" whenever they turn on or off? See the countdown clock in Armageddon, or the signal helicopter in Independence Day.

You will NEVER see a homosexual romance subplot in any movie. Period. This is starting to annoy me as a straight guy, so I can only guess how much this offends people who are homosexual. Just once I want to see hot male hero spurn the advances of hot female rescuee with the line, "Sorry, I already have a boyfriend." I would actually cheer.

I've already complained that whenever a hero is localised (Spiderman in New York, Dr Who in Cardiff and London, Godzilla in Japan), bad guys only ever appear in that area. I suppose in many comic universes there are different heroes in various places, but still...

Hear hear for novaderrik's suggestion that the hero should get hit by a bus. Or how about a disaster movie where the disaster is a surprise. The movie is trailed as a pure drama/romance, and the audience is truly shocked when a meteorite flattens half the town. We then see the characters trying to sort out who is still alive, coming to terms with their losses, making peace with their enemies as they all muck in to look for survivors, or whatever. But because we have spent the whole first half getting involved with the characters and their lives, instead of just waiting for the special effects to arrive, we actually care about what happens to them.

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-09, 09:43 AM
You will NEVER see a homosexual romance subplot in any movie. Period....

I know of one, D.E.B.S. :http://imdb.com/title/tt0367631/
Granted the subplot involves two homosexual females, which seems to have a lower social stigma than homosexual males.

Now that we're living in a post-Brokeback Mountain world, maybe this will change.

Tog
2007-Jun-09, 12:39 PM
How about the PC hero (MacGuyver) who totally 100% opposed to ever using a gun no matter how desperate the situation might be (unless it was to take it apart and use it as a tool), who then ends up killing nearly as many bad guys in many ways, some of which are far more violent? Or for contrast, the A-Team; any one of which can hit the control box from a moving van just right to short it out and open the gate, but never once managed to hit a person, or a car.

RE: nunchucks. See Rapid Fire with Brandon Lee. The story is okay, the writing is junk, and powers Booth sucks so hard in this role that light bends around him, but the fight scenes were excellent. At one point Henchmen #17 comes out with a pair of nunchucks and is foiled by the simple tossing of a shirt. That leads into one of the best movie fights ever (IMO). Brandon Lee vs. Al Leong (AKA That Sinister Asian Guy, you'll know his face). Absolutely terrific fight.

The guy that's flipping the nunchucks all around isn't really that much of a threat as the guy that isn't. The only reason you spend so much time flipping them is that when you hit something, you have no idea where that loose stick is going to go. You need to be ready to redirect it. This was made ever so clear to me when I hit a pumpkin hanging from a tree. The loose stick came straight back across the back of my hand. It was cold. It hurt a lot. I didn't care for it. Another sight of "flash fighting" is how close the hand is to the rope. If the hand is more than halfway on the rope side, it a good sign of someone that learned everything they know by watching Bruce Lee movies. If the stick is held by the rope, but "backwards" so the rope is closer to the pinky finger than the thumb, there is a good chance the person knows what they are doing and that they are prepared for close in defensive fighting.

Delvo
2007-Jun-09, 04:07 PM
Another cliche I haven't seen mentioned is the one blow knockout. ie when the hero wants incapacitate an innocent guard, one punch is enough to knock them out cold and leave them that way.And of course, there are never any consequences from such a brain injury other than a brief snooze.

Eroica
2007-Jun-09, 04:44 PM
The truck that doesn't stop when the heroine walks out in front of it.

Driver (sounding his horn): Sorry, Lady, unless the hero of this movie jumps out in front of this truck and saves your sorry ***, I'm running you over!

Don't American truck-drivers stop for jaywalkers?

Krel
2007-Jun-09, 07:14 PM
The truck that doesn't stop when the heroine walks out in front of it.

Driver (sounding his horn): Sorry, Lady, unless the hero of this movie jumps out in front of this truck and saves your sorry ***, I'm running you over!

Don't American truck-drivers stop for jaywalkers?

Not in movies or tv, but here is a good general rule of thumb I was taught:

Speed + mass = right-of-way

David.

Palomar
2007-Jun-09, 07:26 PM
Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets girl back, they live happily ever after. Done. To. Death.

As is troubled boy from dysfunctional family/inner city/foster home finds himself in wilderness/country, befriends wolf/horse/runaway domestic dog/bear cub and with human guide of another ethnicity (preferably Native American or Chinese), has huge adventure...returns home A-OK and straightened out.

Josh
2007-Jun-09, 10:57 PM
Hear hear for novaderrik's suggestion that the hero should get hit by a bus. Or how about a disaster movie where the disaster is a surprise.

You know what was a surprise? The vampires in From Dusk Till Dawn!!

I had no idea what the movie was about when I hired and looked away just before the change. I looked back and seriously thought there was something wrong with the DVD.

ggremlin
2007-Jun-10, 03:20 AM
How about the single explosive or well placed shot that completely destroys the enemy installation, ship, incoming asteroid or comet at the last second? Normally the only outcome is a pretty meteor shower.

If you could do it at all, I imagine the real result would be something like getting hit by a shotgun blast from three feet away.

Occam
2007-Jun-10, 06:20 AM
Did you read what I said about Mars to Earth in 10 minutes at Warp 2?
Did you read what Captain Swoop wrote, by far the most sensible comment on this subject?
http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=1003867&postcount=71

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-10, 07:36 AM
Sort of like the Captain Kirk karate chop to the back of the neck, delivered with about enough force to (maybe) knock down someone's grandma.

If you whack the carotid artery it will constrict to attempt to prevent damage to the brain from a surge in the local blood pressure. This can have several effects:

1. Temporary unconsciousness due to a sudden lack of oxygen to the brain.
2. Death or brain damage resulting from the artery constricting for too long - the older you are the more likely this is to happen.
3. Death or brain damage from vessels in your brain going pop because the artery failed to restrict blood flow quickly enough.

You know, I'd hate to have been one of the guys the ancient masters used to work out all these martial arts moves on. They must have ended up in really bad shape.

Needless to say, don't try this at home. (Go to someone else's home and raise their insurance costs.)

Maksutov
2007-Jun-10, 08:01 AM
[edit]You know, I'd hate to have been one of the guys the ancient masters used to work out all these martial arts moves on. They must have ended up in really bad shape....If they were still alive, then they were in better shape than those poor unfortunates on whom the samurais tested their latest-technology steel baldes.

Matherly
2007-Jun-10, 01:03 PM
Did you read what Captain Swoop wrote, by far the most sensible comment on this subject?
http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=1003867&postcount=71

And did you see my response about wanting to protect Mars Colony if IT'S attacked?

Look, all I'm saying is that you can't just decide something like a Mars base is completely useless for a fictional universe. It's Jay's old "If I Ran the Zoo" falicy, in essance saying "Well, it's not the way I'd do it, so it must be wrong")

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-10, 01:19 PM
If they were still alive, then they were in better shape than those poor unfortunates on whom the samurais tested their latest-technology steel baldes.

If I'd known you were going to cut my in half I would have swollowed a stone to blunt your blade.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-10, 01:24 PM
If they were still alive, then they were in better shape than those poor unfortunates on whom the samurais tested their latest-technology steel baldes.If I'd known you were going to cut my in half I would have swollowed a stone to blunt your blade.Wasn't a blade. Instead did you ever see the hairdos (or lack thereof) those guys had? "Steel baldes" is putting it mildly.

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-10, 01:35 PM
A Japanese prisoner said words to that effect after being told by the Samurai about to execute him that he would slice him in half through his abdomen.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-10, 01:52 PM
At least he was stoned so it couldn't have hurt that much.

Romanus
2007-Jun-10, 05:57 PM
<<There's the ever-popular "knock out a guard and steal their uniform; it'll fit." Parodied beautifully in the Indiana Jones series, where he essentially goes uniform-shopping when he picks a guard to knock out based on his size after a previous incident of having a uniform turn out to be ridiculously too small.>>

Good one; let's not forget the scene where he pretends to be a Scottish lord. ;)

They also parodied the guard schtick in "Titan A.E.", where the heroes try to fool a guard with a disguise but fail. One of the characters says, "A smart guard; didn't see that one coming."

:D

Ditto too for the "dead black guy syndrome", which--by the way--is even worse in horror movies.

jamesabrown
2007-Jun-11, 03:59 PM
An tractor trailer traveling down the road will lay on it's horn as it passes by the hero standing harmlessly on the side of the road, as if the driver got spooked and wanted to scare off this hazard. Usually this is done as a jump scene (the opening scene of Young Guns II is the prime example).

Saw this in Starman: alien is driving car, heading toward an intersection with a traffic signal. The signal turns yellow, and alien guns the engine. Kidnapped girl freaks because he's too far from the intersection to make the light, and off to the left is a tractor trailer barreling toward the intersection at ninety miles an hour and oh my god we're going to die and I need to grab the wheel and . . . whew! We're alive. Of course, the real threat in this scene is not that someone is going to squeak through the intersection but that the tractor trailer was heading toward a red light at top speed.

Exploding space fighters burst into flame and then entirely disappear, as if they were made of flash paper. The good guys can even fly through the fireball and not have their own ship shredded with debris.

When something odd is happening in a room, a person will burst through the door chattering, as in, "Guess what, everybody! I just saw--" somehow magically knowing that someone is in there, so that he can stop mid-sentence and stare open-mouthed.

The boy-meets-girl chase scene reminded me of that wonderful cliche when two lovers fight and stalk off in different directions. Girl will then run back on stage saying, "Wait! I'm sorry, I . . . " Guy's not there, so she exits again downhearted. Two seconds later, Guy will run back on stage saying, "Wait! I didn't mean . . ." Girl's not there, either, so he exits downhearted too.

Paul Beardsley
2007-Jun-11, 04:23 PM
When something odd is happening in a room, a person will burst through the door chattering, as in, "Guess what, everybody! I just saw--" somehow magically knowing that someone is in there, so that he can stop mid-sentence and stare open-mouthed.
It's not the same thing, but this reminds me of something that happened in Doctor Who, in a story called Remembrance of the Daleks.

There are two women working in a cellar, and as they work they are wondering aloud what the Doctor's plan is. The Doctor happens to burst in (having just dashed down the cellar steps) at that very moment and casually answers their question.

All very nice, but when I was watching it again on DVD, I noticed the shadow of the actor playing the Doctor on the wall where the steps are. Suddenly it changes. Instead if thinking the Doctor has just rushed in, we now know that he's hiding out of view, waiting for his cue. Almost as if that's the Doctor's MO - eavesdropping from a hiding place so that he can make an impressive entrance.

jamesabrown
2007-Jun-11, 04:30 PM
All very nice, but when I was watching it again on DVD, I noticed the shadow of the actor playing the Doctor on the wall where the steps are. Suddenly it changes. Instead if thinking the Doctor has just rushed in, we now know that he's hiding out of view, waiting for his cue. Almost as if that's the Doctor's MO - eavesdropping from a hiding place so that he can make an impressive entrance.


And that reminds me of Arrested Development. "Did somebody say . . . Wonder?"

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-11, 04:33 PM
The boy-meets-girl chase scene reminded me of that wonderful cliche when two lovers fight and stalk off in different directions. Girl will then run back on stage saying, "Wait! I'm sorry, I . . . " Guy's not there, so she exits again downhearted. Two seconds later, Guy will run back on stage saying, "Wait! I didn't mean . . ." Girl's not there, either, so he exits downhearted too.
Hey, kinda reminds me of a play by that famous guy, errm.... :)

Anyway, we all know it's:

It's the old, old story: Droid meets Droid, Droid becomes Chameleon, Droid loses Chameleon, Chameleon turns into Blob, Droid gets Blob back again, Blob meets Blob, Blob goes off with Blob, and Droid loses Blob, Chameleon, and Droid. How many times have we seen that story?

Kryten.
:D

Matherly
2007-Jun-11, 05:42 PM
Oh, I almost forgot.

What about "Boy being meets girl being under a silvery moon, which then promptly explodes".

Maybe I'm just getting old but Disaster Area's songs are starting to sound the same to me.

:D

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-11, 06:13 PM
. How many times have we seen that story?


You know what I'm getting sick and tired of seeing? The story where the human cop is out to terminate the rampaging androids, who only want to be left alone to live out a normal lifespan. Well, the cop, rather unwillingly, kills all but one of them and the only one left, of course, is their leader. Well he toys with the human cop, even plunging his head through walls. Then, right at the end of the story he sits down and has a long soliloquy right before he dies.

(Well, maybe I've only seen it once) :)

Noclevername
2007-Jun-11, 07:39 PM
How about mediocre movies loosely based on mediocre TV series, or remakes that are worse than the original films? Now that's cliche.

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-11, 08:21 PM
You know what I'm getting sick and tired of seeing? The story where the human cop is out to terminate the rampaging androids, who only want to be left alone to live out a normal lifespan. Well, the cop, rather unwillingly, kills all but one of them and the only one left, of course, is their leader. Well he toys with the human cop, even plunging his head through walls. Then, right at the end of the story he sits down and has a long soliloquy right before he dies.

(Well, maybe I've only seen it once) :)
:lol::lol::lol: That does sound vaguely familiar now that you mention it....

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-11, 08:25 PM
Oh, I almost forgot.

What about "Boy being meets girl being under a silvery moon, which then promptly explodes".

Maybe I'm just getting old but Disaster Area's songs are starting to sound the same to me.

:D
That moon (or even sun) didn't mean a hill of beans to me, I was too near the giant speakers :)

Matherly
2007-Jun-11, 08:41 PM
That moon (or even sun) didn't mean a hill of beans to me, I was too near the giant speakers :)

So you were within, what, 37 Miles of the speakers? :cool:

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-11, 08:44 PM
So you were within, what, 37 Miles of the speakers? :cool:
What?! speak up son! :)

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-11, 11:01 PM
How about mediocre movies loosely based on mediocre TV series, or remakes that are worse than the original films? Now that's cliche.

That's worth a thread all by itself.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-12, 12:49 AM
That's worth a thread all by itself.

And already has been, no doubt.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-12, 01:35 AM
My favorite disaster movie cliche. The evil contractor/politician/businessmen who downplay the danger from the impending disaster be it a waking volcano, or improperly installed wiring and then while cowardly fleeing the disaster they helped to create are killed in some gruesome manner by it. Dante's Peak and The Towering Inferno come to mind.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-12, 02:03 AM
My favorite disaster movie cliche. The evil contractor/politician/businessmen who downplay the danger from the impending disaster be it a waking volcano, or improperly installed wiring and then while cowardly fleeing the disaster they helped to create are killed in some gruesome manner by it. Dante's Peak and The Towering Inferno come to mind.


Let's see, the "downplaying danger of poor safety precautions" one is pretty real-life. The cowardice is so/so, since many real life high executives leave their employees in the lurch whenever there's financial or legal danger, but might not respond the same way to physical danger. The coincidentally karmic death? Very uncommon.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-12, 09:49 AM
Let's see, the "downplaying danger of poor safety precautions" one is pretty real-life. The cowardice is so/so, since many real life high executives leave their employees in the lurch whenever there's financial or legal danger, but might not respond the same way to physical danger.

I was thinking the real life model for this cliche may have been the White Star Line managing director J. Bruce Ismay. He oversees the construction a ship (Titantic) without enough lifeboats, pressures the captain to have it beat the previous transatlantic speed record, and then slinks away in a lifeboat when disaster ensues. He didn't die along with a lot of his passengers and employees that night, but he did eventually lose directorship of the company.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-12, 12:23 PM
How about mediocre movies loosely based on mediocre TV series, or remakes that are worse than the original films? Now that's cliche.How about mediocre "live-action" movies based on cartoons?

Maksutov
2007-Jun-12, 12:31 PM
As a metrologist, I find the convenience of movie quantities very amusing.

Such as


This space station will self-destruct in one minute.


You have exactly 24 hours to find a cure for...


But that's one thousand light years away, we can't possibly get there in time.


Well they're a million times more advanced than we are.


By the time Altair 4 explodes you must be 100 million miles from here.


The Intergalactic Empire consists of one billion star systems.


Not even an interdimensional force field one trillion times stronger would protect us.


Why, imagine such forces raised to the power of infinity!

Matherly
2007-Jun-12, 02:27 PM
As a metrologist, I find the convenience of movie quantities very amusing.

Such as...

Well, the first two are indeed just wrong. The remainder can be lumped into either hyperbolie or convient rounding.

Real-Life examples abound. For instance if I said the population of the world was 6.5 Billion I don't think people would think I ment there was literally 6,500,000,000 people on the planet.

Or if I said Star Trek was a hundered times better than Star Wars people would either assume A) I was making a general, non-quantifiable opinion B) I was obviously lacking in taste C) I needed to be beat up or D) I was a troll intent on starting a flame war.

(P.S. the answer is "D" :D )

captain swoop
2007-Jun-12, 03:23 PM
over precise measurement.

Usualy spock will say something like 'In precisely 12.34 seconds'

Doodler
2007-Jun-12, 05:05 PM
How about mediocre "live-action" movies based on cartoons?

How they talked Dennis Hopper into playing King Koopa is beyond human comprehension...but then again, he also did Space Truckers....

Gillianren
2007-Jun-12, 09:15 PM
I was thinking the real life model for this cliche may have been the White Star Line managing director J. Bruce Ismay. He oversees the construction a ship (Titantic) without enough lifeboats, pressures the captain to have it beat the previous transatlantic speed record, and then slinks away in a lifeboat when disaster ensues. He didn't die along with a lot of his passengers and employees that night, but he did eventually lose directorship of the company.

To be fair, the Titanic had more lifeboats than were required by law. And, naturally, after the disaster, the law was changed.

And I said it in another thread, but I'll say it again here--poor Raul Julia.

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-12, 09:25 PM
How they talked Dennis Hopper into playing King Koopa is beyond human comprehension...but then again, he also did Space Truckers....

I liked Space Truckers. Sure, it's a B movie, but a fun B movie.

zenbudda
2007-Jun-12, 09:29 PM
That's what the ST Enterprise needs! Some 21st century technology. How many times has the starship been damaged because someone didn't get the shields raised quickly enough?

not to be too geeky but i thought the reason why the enterprise never always travels around with sheilds is to conserve energy. while the enterprise is able to generate a lot of power, it's not unlimited.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-12, 09:32 PM
not to be too geeky but i thought the reason why the enterprise never always travels around with sheilds is to conserve energy. while the enterprise is able to generate a lot of power, it's not unlimited.


Yeah, but why not just have the shields tied into the sensors, so they'd go on whenever there's danger? Instead of waiting for the Captain to say "Shields up, mister Sulu!" and then additional time while Sulu flips switches. A second to a sec-and-a-half of incoming blazing death!

novaderrik
2007-Jun-12, 09:37 PM
not to be too geeky but i thought the reason why the enterprise never always travels around with sheilds is to conserve energy. while the enterprise is able to generate a lot of power, it's not unlimited.
but it is unlimited if they need it to be. like, say, when a Borg cube is chasing them around the galaxy or something. they always seem to have unlimited power until they get hit by a small phaser shot, then all the power coupling relays (or whatever they call them on any given week) blowout- which takes out half of the bridge crew, since they mounted them conveniently behind the control panels on the bridge. but, for some reason, they need to crawl thru a couple of miles of small tubes with steel grating for flooring on their knees to actually fix them.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-12, 09:45 PM
not to be too geeky but i thought the reason why the enterprise never always travels around with sheilds is to conserve energy. while the enterprise is able to generate a lot of power, it's not unlimited.

I didn't imply having the shields raised all the time. I just suggested that the computer have the power to decide when and then do it - not wait for a command from the Captain to a subordinate who then presses a button. Especially when a Romulan or Klingon vessel de-cloaks all of a sudden.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-12, 09:54 PM
but, for some reason, they need to crawl thru a couple of miles of small tubes with steel grating for flooring on their knees to actually fix them.

Yet they can reroute warp plasma through the deflector dish just by pressing a few buttons. (Come to think of it, they could reroute anything through that darn deflector dish. Hooray, plot device!)

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-12, 09:57 PM
Yeah, but why not just have the shields tied into the sensor, so they'd go on whenever there's danger? Instead of waiting for the Captain to say "Shields up, mister Sulu!" and then additional time while Sulu flips switches. A second to a sec-and-a-half of incoming blazing death!

My recollection from classic Trek is that sometimes the shields would activate on their own. Of course, you can quickly get into nonsense about the distinction between deflectors and shields (which seemed to get rather fuzzy at times). I think it's best to say that the shields were tied to the plot detector. If the plot required that they be hit with the shields down, so be it. Otherwise, they would be up.

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-12, 10:03 PM
Yet they can reroute warp plasma through the deflector dish just by pressing a few buttons. (Come to think of it, they could reroute anything through that darn deflector dish. Hooray, plot device!)

And reverse the polarity. Many things could be fixed by reversing the polarity.

Also, I was always impressed how much energy life support required. Here they are going at many times the speed of light, blasting holes in asteroids, but life support takes so much power it actually could be useful to draw some power from life support systems.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-12, 10:05 PM
Here they are going at many times the speed of light, blasting holes in asteroids, but life support takes so much power it actually could be useful to draw some power from life support systems.

Yet shutting down life support never included losing artificial gravity, just those massively power-wasting overhead lights.

Gemini
2007-Jun-12, 10:33 PM
And reverse the polarity. Many things could be fixed by reversing the polarity. .


Reminds me of the SG-1:200 Star Trek Parody...

Shaft: Can you reverse...the polarity?

Noclevername
2007-Jun-12, 10:44 PM
Reminds me of the SG-1:200 Star Trek Parody...

Shaft: Can you reverse...the polarity?


...cue funk music...

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-12, 11:46 PM
I know this link has been presented on BAUT (and probably BABB and UT) but I think it is worth another showing:

Top 10 Things I hate About Star Trek (http://www.happyfunpundit.com/hfp/archives/000514.html)

From there:

For cripes sake Giordi, stop reversing the polarity of everything! [snip] Every time the Enterprise comes in for its 10,000 hour checkup, they've gotta go through the whole [darn] ship fixing stuff. "What happened to the toilet in Stateroom 3?" "Well, the plumbing backed up, and Giordi thought he could fix it by reversing the polarity."

Delvo
2007-Jun-13, 12:04 AM
Sometimes I wish I had the DVDs and the time to go through them and document every occurence of something people claim happened all the time on those shows... from reversing polarities to Wesley saving the ship to Picard breaking the Prime Directive... to show how hopelessly false such claims are by getting the actual numbers.

Ilya
2007-Jun-13, 12:14 AM
It's not like 3d battling has been around a while... Only since WWI.


In Asimov's "Foundation" humans had flown and fought in space for one hundred thousand years, and they STILL use two-dimensional tactics! And it's not an oversight on Asimov's part -- when Bel Riose wins a major battle by utilizing third dimension, the losing side accuses him of cheating. IOW, Asimov clearly thought of the matter, just his conclusion is flatly incredible.

I think Asimov always regarded vast majority of human beings as collectivist, tradition-bound, and unwilling to experiment. (Socially experiment, that is.) Which is not surprising for a Russian Jew who grew up in Brooklyn during Great Depression. There are few rugged individualists in immigrant tenements, and even fewer during Depression.

ToSeek
2007-Jun-13, 02:04 AM
Yeah, but why not just have the shields tied into the sensors, so they'd go on whenever there's danger? Instead of waiting for the Captain to say "Shields up, mister Sulu!" and then additional time while Sulu flips switches. A second to a sec-and-a-half of incoming blazing death!

Well, frankly, just about everything on the ship should be automated. You shouldn't need a navigator or a helmsman at all.

ToSeek
2007-Jun-13, 02:05 AM
Sometimes I wish I had the DVDs and the time to go through them and document every occurence of something people claim happened all the time on those shows... from reversing polarities to Wesley saving the ship to Picard breaking the Prime Directive... to show how hopelessly false such claims are by getting the actual numbers.

Yes, but sometimes twice is still too many. Heck, with Wesley saving the ship, once is too many! ;)

Noclevername
2007-Jun-13, 02:10 AM
Well, frankly, just about everything on the ship should be automated. You shouldn't need a navigator or a helmsman at all.

"Oh, no, we're in trouble! Computer, activate Emergency Holographic Wesley!"

(Shudder)

Grand Admiral Thrawn
2007-Jun-13, 02:25 AM
<<There's the ever-popular "knock out a guard and steal their uniform; it'll fit." Parodied beautifully in the Indiana Jones series, where he essentially goes uniform-shopping when he picks a guard to knock out based on his size after a previous incident of having a uniform turn out to be ridiculously too small.>>

Good one; let's not forget the scene where he pretends to be a Scottish lord. ;)

They also parodied the guard schtick in "Titan A.E.", where the heroes try to fool a guard with a disguise but fail. One of the characters says, "A smart guard; didn't see that one coming."

:D

Ditto too for the "dead black guy syndrome", which--by the way--is even worse in horror movies.

Don't forget the part where Indy knocks out a Nazi Officer, takes his uniform, and gets his Dad's diary autographed by Hitler himself!!!

"This is how we say goodbye in Germany Dr. Jones."

=)

Grand Admiral Thrawn
2007-Jun-13, 02:27 AM
As a metrologist, I find the convenience of movie quantities very amusing.

Such as

"Now thats your uncle talking." -Ben Kenobi

Grand Admiral Thrawn
2007-Jun-13, 02:32 AM
Well, the first two are indeed just wrong. The remainder can be lumped into either hyperbolie or convient rounding.

Real-Life examples abound. For instance if I said the population of the world was 6.5 Billion I don't think people would think I ment there was literally 6,500,000,000 people on the planet.

Or if I said Star Trek was a hundered times better than Star Wars people would either assume A) I was making a general, non-quantifiable opinion B) I was obviously lacking in taste C) I needed to be beat up or D) I was a troll intent on starting a flame war.

(P.S. the answer is "D" :D )

No, it would be "E" (Star Wars is better).

Grand Admiral Thrawn
2007-Jun-13, 02:40 AM
But it is 100 times better!

The only series that it would be "100 times better" would be the Jimmy Neutron series. (I still vote "E")

Even Space Balls caould match that.

"I'd rather kiss a Wookiee!" -Leia

"I can arrange that. You could use a good kiss!" -Han

=)

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-13, 02:55 AM
Well, frankly, just about everything on the ship should be automated. You shouldn't need a navigator or a helmsman at all.

They did that, in the original series, and the computer even raised shields, but there were a few bugs: The Ultimate Computer. (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer) The computers in Next Generation were a bit less buggy, and really should have been sufficient, except automation would severely limit character interaction.

The human versus automation thing gets really silly in some anime shows (such as Ghost in the Shell) where androids type at keyboards with special fingers . . .to do the work that could be done by a computer without a humanoid body hooked up with a network cable (or a wireless connection). But that wouldn't look as good on screen.

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-13, 04:19 AM
Sometimes I wish I had the DVDs and the time to go through them and document every occurence of something people claim happened all the time on those shows... from reversing polarities to Wesley saving the ship to Picard breaking the Prime Directive... to show how hopelessly false such claims are by getting the actual numbers.

I did a little searching on polarity. In the original series Scotty reversed polarity on a magnetic probe in "That Which Survives." Apparently the alien transporter had reversed the polarity of the entire ship. In "Apollo" the Enterprise attempted to reverse the polarity of the field holding them.

There is a major non-Trek reference. Jon Pertwee (the third Doctor) did a lot of polarity reversing, and his ultimate techie phrase was "Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow." Apparently this was deliberately copied in a ST:TNG episode.

ST:Voyager looks like it was heavily into polarity reversals. They repeatedly reversed shield polarity, among other reversals.

Data reversed the polarity of an "axial servo" in Star Trek Generations.

ST: Enterprise polarized the hull all the time. Reed reversed the polarity of the field coils in "Harbinger."

Tog
2007-Jun-13, 07:42 AM
Sometimes I wish I had the DVDs and the time to go through them and document every occurence of something people claim happened all the time on those shows... from reversing polarities to Wesley saving the ship to Picard breaking the Prime Directive... to show how hopelessly false such claims are by getting the actual numbers.

There is a set of books caller The Nitpicker's guide to... (They had 2 for TNG, one for DS9, and one for TOS and the movies through 6 or 7) They have little tables throughout that have things like, "The number of things McCoy is not. such as, 'I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer.'" Many of the "it happened all the time" bits are listed along with the episode.

The problem with the shields coming up automatically would be that if a ship with no hostile intent suddenly approached and the Enterprise raised the shields it might be seen as an act of aggression, which would violate the idea that they were primarily on a mission of explorations and peace (most weeks).

A real world example of this was the Soviet Yak-28 Vtol jet. It had a sensor that would monitor the altitude and descent rate. If they indicated the plane was about to crash it would eject the pilot automatically. Reports hinted that this was not a welcome feature among many of the pilots.

I've always wondered why the phasers can't fire until the shields are down to 25&#37;. :p Also, given the number of miracles the transporter could do (create a clone, raise the dead, act as a stasis chamber for 80 years), how did anyone ever get trapped on the holodeck?
Why did medical teams have to run to an injured crew member?
Why were no enemies ever beamed directly to the brig?

And why didn't phasers have any form of sighting device, and have a firing method (pressing down with the thumb) that will almost guarantee the point of aim will drop when firing?

Side note: In the game City of Heroes you can listen to a police scanner to get a short mission that is not part of the story arc. One of these was to recover the (something like) "Phase Limiting Oscillating Transceiver Device.:lol: The mission header was "Find the P.L.O.T. Device. It had a dual meaning due to the number of inside jokes and easter eggs in game.

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-13, 08:15 AM
The human versus automation thing gets really silly in some anime shows (such as Ghost in the Shell) where androids type at keyboards with special fingers . . .to do the work that could be done by a computer without a humanoid body hooked up with a network cable (or a wireless connection). But that wouldn't look as good on screen.

Hmmm. I take the reason for that--at least in the case of Ghost in the Shell (haven't seen it elsewhere)--is so the androids cannot be back-hacked. Plus the androids do other tasks besides just work at their computer stations.

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-13, 08:48 AM
Hmmm. I take the reason for that--at least in the case of Ghost in the Shell (haven't seen it elsewhere)--is so the androids cannot be back-hacked. Plus the androids do other tasks besides just work at their computer stations.

Data from Star Trek sat as his station like a normal crewmember and didn't plug in. You wouldn't think, "I'm trying to be human," would be considered an exceptable excuse for inefficient behaviour on board a ship that is often in mortal peril.

And speaking as a non-adroid, I have to admit that people and systems are trying to hack and back hack me all the time. Darn advertising and normal human interaction! I hates it, I hates it all!

Noclevername
2007-Jun-13, 09:03 AM
Data from Star Trek sat as his station like a normal crewmember and didn't plug in.

Heck, the Doctor from Voyager was a computer program and he still had to press buttons!

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-13, 09:15 AM
Hmmm. I take the reason for that--at least in the case of Ghost in the Shell (haven't seen it elsewhere)--is so the androids cannot be back-hacked. Plus the androids do other tasks besides just work at their computer stations.

People were always getting hacked through their cybernetic implants, so I doubt that would work out very well for robots. Anyway, there are more efficient ways of setting up firewalls.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-13, 11:02 AM
Well, the first two are indeed just wrong. The remainder can be lumped into either hyperbolie or convient rounding.

Real-Life examples abound. For instance if I said the population of the world was 6.5 Billion I don't think people would think I ment there was literally 6,500,000,000 people on the planet.

Or if I said Star Trek was a hundered times better than Star Wars people would either assume A) I was making a general, non-quantifiable opinion B) I was obviously lacking in taste C) I needed to be beat up or D) I was a troll intent on starting a flame war.

(P.S. the answer is "D" :D )Spoken like a true apologist.

But in real life we are rarely if ever able to use such convenient numbers to accurately describe something. After the umpteenth movie/TV show where a critical factor is yet another whole number tied into a standard measurement unit, or another whole number followed by various zeros, one starts to detect a certain disconnect with reality.

Even Obi Wan agreed with that.

Parrothead
2007-Jun-13, 01:03 PM
I found a copy of Cronenberg's "Dead Ringers" on DVD last week :) . In this thriller, he was avoiding the good twin/evil twin and "esp" between twins cliches. I had forgotten about the great performance by Jeremy Irons, in that flick.

captain swoop
2007-Jun-13, 02:13 PM
The problem with the shields coming up automatically would be that if a ship with no hostile intent suddenly approached and the Enterprise raised the shields it might be seen as an act of aggression, which would violate the idea that they were primarily on a mission of explorations and peace (most weeks).

An automated system would work like the automated systems that are already being used on Warships, they don't fire at every aircraft or surface countact they get, they can discriminate.

Grand Admiral Thrawn
2007-Jun-13, 04:57 PM
Spoken like a true apologist.

But in real life we are rarely if ever able to use such convenient numbers to accurately describe something. After the umpteenth movie/TV show where a critical factor is yet another whole number tied into a standard measurement unit, or another whole number followed by various zeros, one starts to detect a certain disconnect with reality.

Even Obi Wan agreed with that.

"That is a name I haven't heard in a very long time." -Ben Kenobi

Krel
2007-Jun-13, 06:20 PM
And why didn't phasers have any form of sighting device, and have a firing method (pressing down with the thumb) that will almost guarantee the point of aim will drop when firing?


The original hand/pistol phasers did. Matt Jefferies designed them to have a pop-up targeting screen. The movies, and Next Gen shows dropped that feature.

Phaser 1, the hand phaser had a trigger button on the bottom of the phaser. Not too efficient, but it was a close-up weapon, and it couldn't be fired until the targeting screen was raised. Phaser 2 was the pistol phaser, more conventionally shaped, it held the p1. Not shown, but designed was the phaser 3, where attachments were added to the p2 to turn it into a rifle. M.J. designs were quite advanced, but they got simplified, usually for budgetary reasons.

A movie that makes fun of movie cliches is "Jake Speed". Woman: Why are we doing this the hard way. JS: Because it reads better that way.

David.

zenbudda
2007-Jun-13, 08:01 PM
after half jokingly reading through the enterprise manual (i'm talking TNG enterprise, not the wimpy old C), i remember something about this conversation about shields always being up. while it may seem they have unlimited power, they really don't. i'm giong to defend star trek and say even in the 23rd century computers cannot make sophistiated/dynamic decisions like humans can. i can think of a few alternate plots that would screw the enterprise over if the shields automatically went up at a bad time. example: picard is beaming back to the enterprise from a diplomatic mission on romulus, when a cloaked warbird waits for the exact moment for picard to get transported. shields drop, warbird decloaks and readies torpedos, shields go up, picard gets lots into entropy, warbird never even fires, warbird captain sits back and laughs.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-13, 08:09 PM
i can think of a few alternate plots that would screw the enterprise over if the shields automatically went up at a bad time. example: picard is beaming back to the enterprise from a diplomatic mission on romulus, when a cloaked warbird waits for the exact moment for picard to get transported. shields drop, warbird decloaks and readies torpedos, shields go up, picard gets lots into entropy, warbird never even fires, warbird captain sits back and laughs.


Well, the automated system could have an off switch...

Y'know, just sayin'.

SeanF
2007-Jun-13, 08:38 PM
Well, the automated system could have an off switch...

Y'know, just sayin'.
The automated system could also be automatically disabled by activation of the transporters.

Krel
2007-Jun-14, 02:29 AM
Two that get me, are cars being chased by motorcycles, and low hovering helicopters.

A car or truck is being chased by motorcycles, and the drivers are panicking, why? You have a big, heavy piece of metal, and plastic weighing thousands of pounds, just swerve in front of the motorcycle, and slam on the brakes. End of problem. Your vehicle might not be in the best of shape, but the odds are the pursuers weren't going to do it much good anyway. As long as I'm okay, I don't care about the car, I can get a new one. A new me is more problematical.

The second is low hovering, and flying helicopters. I was watching a movie where a hovering copter was blocking a car. Me, I would have just driven under it and hit the skids, and watched it tip over, crash, and burn in my rear view mirror. Below thirty, to fifty feet the helicopter is just an expensive hovercraft balancing on a column of air. Very vulnerable, and unless it manages to tip over on top of you the copter is going to be the loser.

Also, just where do these people find all the evil helicopter pilots? It's expensive to learn to pilot a helicopter. It is a skill that is in demand, and is somewhat rare. So why would these people risk their license, their freedom, and their very lives to do things that will, at the very least get them incarcerated for a long, long time, if not killed outright. Is the pay really that good? Or, is that how they get their jollies? That is a pretty expensive way, and do these situations really come up that often to satisfy that particular itch?

David.

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-14, 03:28 AM
A car or truck is being chased by motorcycles, and the drivers are panicking, why?

Well, I've noticed that in the movies, heros appear able to impart some of their life force to their cars. No matter how badly a car gets shot up it will still function as long as the hero is still in it. However, once the hero jumps clear of the vehicle his life force is no longer sustaining it and it will blow up.

Imparting life force is the only logical explanation for explaining why cars still function after being shot up so much. If a car could function with all those holes shot in it, they would be made with the holes already in them to save on weight.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-14, 03:33 AM
Of course this kind of undermines the whole final climatic chase/battle scene in The Road Warrior. Mel Gibson should have done a couple of donuts right off in that heavy tanker he was driving and taken all those gas-starved punks out.

Delvo
2007-Jun-14, 03:34 AM
At first I was thinking that I've never seen a car being chased by motorcycles at all and clich&#233;s are supposed to be extremely common, so I almost asked where in the world the list of movies/shows that have done that is. But I think the problem is that I was thinking of heroes & villains (and in my mind I saw the aerodynamic sleek little rice-rocket type of bike). Were you actually talking about "biker gangs" on rumbling Harleys scaring the relatively peaceful citizens (especially yuppies)?

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-14, 05:36 AM
People were always getting hacked through their cybernetic implants, so I doubt that would work out very well for robots. Anyway, there are more efficient ways of setting up firewalls.

The people were always getting hacked through their wired or wireless connection. Don't have one--or are running in "autistic mode" (means it's turned off)--can't get hacked.

True, but they're not 100&#37; reliable, are they? I have a firewall and I still get viruses.

Aerik
2007-Jun-14, 05:56 AM
I hate everything found in Stupidly Insulting Movie Physics (http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/), everything you've mentioned, and dragony ****ty fantasy movies labelled as "sci-fi"

Van Rijn
2007-Jun-14, 06:11 AM
The people were always getting hacked through their wired or wireless connection. Don't have one--or are running in "autistic mode" (means it's turned off)--can't get hacked.

True, but they're not 100&#37; reliable, are they? I have a firewall and I still get viruses.

I don't see the difference between one properly protected data connection and another. Which is to say, if you can protect a robot from being hacked by having it use a very high data rate optical input (eyes) and low data rate output (hands) you should be able to do the same with higher output rate and a more efficient connection. All that extra hardware (the body) is irrelevant.

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-14, 07:06 AM
I don't see the difference between one properly protected data connection and another. Which is to say, if you can protect a robot from being hacked by having it use a very high data rate optical input (eyes) and low data rate output (hands) you should be able to do the same with higher output rate and a more efficient connection. All that extra hardware (the body) is irrelevant.


Are you suggesting the androids could be hacked via what they see with their eyes? An interesting premise, but is it possible? What would you show an android to make them do what you want? Seems on par with showing Joe or Jane Anyone a movie of a murder and expecting them to go out and murder who you tell them to.

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-14, 07:18 AM
Seems on par with showing Joe or Jane Anyone a movie of a murder and expecting them to go out and murder who you tell them to.

It tends to be a bit more subtle with humans. Think advertising, appeals to patriotism/religion and that biochemical process called falling in love.

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-14, 07:25 AM
It tends to be a bit more subtle with humans. Think advertising, appeals to patriotism/religion and that biochemical process called falling in love.

None of those work on me.

AGN Fuel
2007-Jun-14, 07:32 AM
Has anyone mentioned speeding cars that hit something, flip into the air and explode for no readily apparent reason? When I'm watching a movie where that happens, I always lose interest in what follows while I try and work out why the car was apparently carrying a gallon of nitroglycerine in the back seat...

(Oh, and although it's not technically a cliche - the biggest nerve-grater I have is if a film features Adam Sandler and he survives past the opening credits.)

Tog
2007-Jun-14, 08:26 AM
(Oh, and although it's not technically a cliche - the biggest nerve-grater I have is if a film features Adam Sandler and he survives past the opening credits.)

From my own list of personal hatreds:
Any film -- err direct to video classic -- with Steven Segal and the rapper of the week.
Any film where the bands on the soundtrack are featured prominently on the poster, and it's not a film about music. (Varsity Blues)

NEOWatcher
2007-Jun-14, 12:53 PM
The second is low hovering, and flying helicopters. I was watching a movie where a hovering copter was blocking a car. Me, I would have just driven under it and hit the skids, and watched it tip over, crash, and burn in my rear view mirror.
I would agree with you on this one, but there might be one important fear factor involved... Blades. The odds of them coming down just the right way to do harm may be small, but the thought could be scary anyway.

Matherly
2007-Jun-14, 01:19 PM
Well, I've noticed that in the movies, heros appear able to impart some of their life force to their cars. No matter how badly a car gets shot up it will still function as long as the hero is still in it. However, once the hero jumps clear of the vehicle his life force is no longer sustaining it and it will blow up.

Best example of this (used for humerous effect): The Blues Brothers

"Use of deadly force in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers... has been approved"

Delvo
2007-Jun-14, 02:53 PM
A couple more...

Gunshots not affecting the ears of those who are near the gun (they're VERY loud in reality)

Doors flying open with a kick

captain swoop
2007-Jun-14, 04:05 PM
Doors flying open with a kick

My back door does that!

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-14, 04:19 PM
Doors flying open with a kick

Not sure why this is a cliche. :confused:

Paul Beardsley
2007-Jun-14, 05:26 PM
My back door does that!

So does mine!

I've seen some that don't, though. They are locked doors.

Another cliche is crockery that breaks when it falls onto a hard surface.

Delvo
2007-Jun-14, 05:32 PM
And that one's so ingrained now, that it's even shown happening to things that are made of some non-brittle substance, instead of glass or ceramics... like in The Return of the King when Aragorn's necklace with the metal thing hanging on the front of it falls to the floor, and the metal shatters into many tiny pieces!

Matherly
2007-Jun-14, 06:19 PM
like in The Return of the King when Aragorn's necklace with the metal thing hanging on the front of it falls to the floor, and the metal shatters into many tiny pieces!

Well... that was symbolic of Arwen choosing to follow her human heritage over her elven heritage. She was now mortal, and if Sauron rose to dominate Middle-Earth she would have no refuge in the West. That realization helps to drive Aragorn to walk the Paths of the Dead.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-14, 06:30 PM
The alcoholic drink thrown in the face, which somehow avoids harming the eyes.

The puch in the jaw that doesn't hurt the hand.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-14, 06:35 PM
The punch in the jaw that doesn't hurt the hand.

. . . or the jaw.

Matherly
2007-Jun-14, 07:03 PM
The puch in the jaw that doesn't hurt the
hand.

"Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."- Captain Malcom Reynolds, Firefly

Larry Jacks
2007-Jun-14, 09:16 PM
Car chases are cliche enough. Car chases that don't end up with one of the cars hitting a fruit stand are pretty rare.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-14, 09:32 PM
The martial artist who performs a standing back flip during a high kick.

captain swoop
2007-Jun-14, 10:56 PM
Pulling the slide on an already 'chambered' automatic and not ejecting a round?

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-15, 01:20 AM
Car chases are cliche enough. Car chases that don't end up with one of the cars hitting a fruit stand are pretty rare.

Ahh yes, and don't forget the alleyways piled full of boxes too (remembering the old Starsky & Hutch) :)

novaderrik
2007-Jun-15, 02:15 AM
Ahh yes, and don't forget the alleyways piled full of boxes too (remembering the old Starsky & Hutch) :)
which recent movie had all that stuff, plus two guys carrying a giant pane of glass across the street just as the high speed chase came thru? Wayne's World, perhaps? wow.. i guess not so recent, then..

Romanus
2007-Jun-15, 02:29 AM
^
Yep, that was "Wayne's World 2"--love it, by the way.

For those who haven't seen it, near the beginning of the movie you see these guys carrying a pane of glass back and forth across the street, with others endlessly stocking boxes with watermelons and chickens. Later in the movie the glass gets smashed, as do all the boxes, whereupon one of the men says "Our work here is done!"

:D

Delvo
2007-Jun-15, 02:55 AM
Pulling the slide on an already 'chambered' automatic and not ejecting a round?Ooh, ooh, that reminded me of a couple more:

1. A character threatening others with a gun, then getting mad about something and pulling the slide to show how mad (s)he is, which means (s)he was previously threatening people with a gun they (s)he shoot anybody with at the time... and also usually bringing the gun much closer to the target while doing that, thus taking away the weapon's main advantage (range) and creating (or at least increasing) the risk of somebody being able to get to the gun

2. Guns that "click" as if being cocked/chambered every time they're pointed at something/someone else, even when nobody's hand is anywhere near any part of it that would click

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-15, 03:03 AM
I've noticed that pedestrians being pursued by a car in a movie will keep running square down the middle of the road instead of ducking in somewhere where a car cannot go. That John Carpenter horror flick Christine comes to mind.

darkhunter
2007-Jun-15, 04:01 AM
Of course this kind of undermines the whole final climatic chase/battle scene in The Road Warrior. Mel Gibson should have done a couple of donuts right off in that heavy tanker he was driving and taken all those gas-starved punks out.


Not really--Max had a reason for not just wiping out the bad guys--he had to make sure they all followed him so the good guys could escape. Once he started dounuts, the trailer would have eventually flipped and the remainig bad guys would catch on and head back to the refinery....

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-15, 04:05 AM
Not really--Max had a reason for not just wiping out the bad guys--he had to make sure they all followed him so the good guys could escape. Once he started dounuts, the trailer would have eventually flipped and the remainig bad guys would catch on and head back to the refinery....

Wait a second! It's been years since I saw The Road Warrior but didn't Max really believe that he was hauling the gasoline?

novaderrik
2007-Jun-15, 04:59 AM
yeah, he thought it was full of gas. he was more than a little angry when he saw the sand coming out..

Krel
2007-Jun-15, 05:04 AM
I've noticed that pedestrians being pursued by a car in a movie will keep running square down the middle of the road instead of ducking in somewhere where a car cannot go. That John Carpenter horror flick Christine comes to mind.

One of the victims in "Christine" did try ducking into a small space, Christine just squeezed into the space to get him.

In addition to racking the slide on an auto-loader, there is the pump shotgun version were they keep pumping the shotgun without ejecting a shell.

David.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Jun-15, 05:11 AM
yeah, he thought it was full of gas. he was more than a little angry when he saw the sand coming out..

BTW, that final chase/crash scene in The Road Warrior was one horrific scene. I remember reading that that scene was one of the most dangerous ever filmed.

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-15, 05:21 AM
In addition to racking the slide on an auto-loader, there is the pump shotgun version were they keep pumping the shotgun without ejecting a shell.

I think these guns must come with a lot of empty spaces in their magazines and they have to be pumped now and then for no aparent reason to get rid of them.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-15, 05:37 AM
I think these guns must come with a lot of empty spaces in their magazines and they have to be pumped now and then for no aparent reason to get rid of them.

Only when threatening someone, or for dramatic reasons just before a gunfight or when anyone says, "Now it's personal."

Ronald Brak
2007-Jun-15, 05:41 AM
The guns can tell. That's why bad guys guns miss all the time. The guns make them miss so they'll have a shot at appearing in the sequal.

I also have a theory that James Bond is actually indestructable and he only occaisonally allows himself to get knocked out to advance the plot.

Tog
2007-Jun-15, 09:06 AM
A role playing game I looked at briefly many years ago had rules for "Cinematic" campaigns. One was Bullet Proof Nudity. The fewer clothes worn by the hero, the higher his armor rating went. Another was the requirement for all villains to be graduates of the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksman Academy. This ensured that at no time will any enemy ever hit the hero with the first shot.

A film example of this is Behind Enemy Lines. The enemy sniper has a rifle with an extendable bipod on the front. The Hero is sitting against a light gray concrete dam in his dark green flight suit about 800 yards away. The first shot misses. Cut to the sniper and he's standing, holding the rifle unsupported by anything at all. Then, near the end, the sniper is sneaking through the brush after the hero. When he gets close, he stops, and chambers a round.

I'll add the 3 minute grenade fuse seen in just about any movie (that uses a grenade) except Saving Private Ryan. Die Hard 2 was the worst offender by far on that one.

Oh, and lock picking by wiggling a paper clip in the keyhole for 4 seconds. You need two tools, and the cylinder of the lock still has to turn to open it.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-15, 09:43 AM
[edit]Also, just where do these people find all the evil helicopter pilots? It's expensive to learn to pilot a helicopter. It is a skill that is in demand, and is somewhat rare. So why would these people risk their license, their freedom, and their very lives to do things that will, at the very least get them incarcerated for a long, long time, if not killed outright. Is the pay really that good? Or, is that how they get their jollies? That is a pretty expensive way, and do these situations really come up that often to satisfy that particular itch?

David.In the 1970s and 1980s it was always made clear that the evil helicopter pilots flew choppers in Viet Nam and were therefore by definition space cadets.

The evil airmen who operated fixed wing aircraft were always former Puff The Magic Dragon pilots.

Tog
2007-Jun-15, 10:19 AM
In the 1970s and 1980s it was always made clear that the evil helicopter pilots flew choppers in Viet Nam and were therefore by definition space cadets.

The evil airmen who operated fixed wing aircraft were always former Puff The Magic Dragon pilots.

In 65-66 when my dad was in Vietnam (as a crew chief on a Huey), it was commonly understood that most helicopter pilots were really frustrated F-4 pilots.;)

Doodler
2007-Jun-15, 11:52 AM
Oh, and lock picking by wiggling a paper clip in the keyhole for 4 seconds. You need two tools, and the cylinder of the lock still has to turn to open it.

Yeah, I've seen it actually done on a forklift with two pieces of 18 gauge sheet metal.

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-15, 12:01 PM
A bad fantasy movie cliche. When dealing with the heroes, the villain/dark lord in his utter contempt will always forgo crushing them outright, but instead will inexplicably choose to deploy his weakest weapons/minions against them first, thus allowing the heroes ample opportunity to build up their strength to the point where they become a bona fide threat.

Tog
2007-Jun-15, 12:08 PM
I've done a few with the toothpick and one of the screwdrivers in a Swiss Army Knife. Someone ran out the fire door at work and we didn't have a key to turn off the alarm. I had pick the alarm box open and pull the wires. We were actually able to re-lock the fire door and reset the alarm. That same toothpick was used to set the gap in the points on VW Bug on several occasions. It didn't run well, but it got me home.:)

ASEI
2007-Jun-15, 12:36 PM
Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets girl back, they live happily ever after. Agreed. 10x over. Anymore, when I see the first minutes of a movie, I can tell you the rest of the plot. Who's good, who's bad, who will die in the intervening scenes, precisely what we're supposed to think about each character. It's mind-numbingly boring.

How about the following few: The guy who owns a business, especially if it's industrial in nature, is always a ruthless type-A psychopath.

"More evolved". "More highly evolved." "The next stage of evolution". I don't know how many times I keep hearing this gaggy peice of pseudo-science cliche. Especially with all the near-uniformly assumed characteristics of this imaginary state. ESP, telekinesis, obnoxious PC attitudes, arrogant judgementalism towards the rest of mankind for percieved "failings", ect.

Similar portrayals of alien contact - they're either evil cardboard invaders, or they're supposedly benevolent demigods who are nevertheless given implied permission to destroy mankind for it's percieved "failings" (a violent nature, ironically, being among them), or at least issue absurd judgements from on high.

ASEI
2007-Jun-15, 12:47 PM
The noble savage is another waay over-done cliche. The "noble savages" are never more than 1-dimensional props in a morality play, juxtapositions for the perceived failings of civilization. They never seem to have individuality, or motives of their own, or failings, or any difficulty from the brutally hard circumstances that inevitably accompany a lack of civilization.

I suppose an earlier era in moviemaking had it's inverse cliche- the evil barbarian, with similar conditions applying.

That's one thing I sort of liked about Mark Twain's "Indian Joe". He may have been a villian, but he was a <i>human</i> villian, not a morality play villian. He had an actual background, actual motives, ect. It seems a lot more real to me.

jamesabrown
2007-Jun-15, 12:56 PM
Two people don't like each other, but then one of them gets cancer.

Romanus
2007-Jun-15, 01:37 PM
<<BTW, that final chase/crash scene in The Road Warrior was one horrific scene. I remember reading that that scene was one of the most dangerous ever filmed.>>

Yes...but what a result!

Road Warrior is still, IMO, by far the best of the three movies. Thunderdome only aspired to be like its predecessor.

3rdvogon
2007-Jun-15, 01:52 PM
Similar portrayals of alien contact - they're either evil cardboard invaders, or they're supposedly benevolent demigods who are nevertheless given implied permission to destroy mankind for it's percieved "failings" (a violent nature, ironically, being among them), or at least issue absurd judgements from on high.

Except in "Morons from Outer Space". - Where the aliens suggest on their planet they do not have to haul around clumsy things like typwriters because they have invented this thing called a pen.


Why has become so fashionable for both heroes and villains to fight by throwing each other against walls or through windows - it you want finish someone off and you have not got a gun/sword/knife/etc then find something to hit them with - walls and windows make lousy weapons compared to rocks/iron bars/heavy chunks of wood and so on. Hitting someone with an improvised club is bound to deliver higher kinetic energy than you can obtain by trying to throw a person against a wall.

weatherc
2007-Jun-15, 02:05 PM
Another one relating to guns: When loading a revolver, why is it always necessary to spin the cylinder? And why does the cylinder always make a "zzzzzz" sound when it's spun? I've never heard a cylinder make a sound on a real revolver when it's spun.

Here's one I hate with computers: The "boop boop BEEP" sound effects that they always have when someone is typing on a computer keyboard. Movies could probably get away with this in the very early eighties before most people used computers, but today it's just stupid. Closely related to this is the "zoom in" sound effect that always accompanies image processing software sequences. I use image manipulation software all the time, and when I zoom in on something or crop an area, Photoshop stays dead silent. Maybe I need to upgrade to Photoshop CSI or something. Closely related to this is the ability to enhance low quality security camera footage to the point where someone can zoom in on a reflection on a doorknob on the opposite side of a large room to see the face of someone standing out of view of the camera. Sorry, but pixels just ain't that flexible in real life.

Another cliche that bothers me to no end is when people are running from a badguy/monster/evil government agency/whatever, and they run into a building and run UPSTAIRS. Just where the heck do they think they're going to go? Once they run out of more "up," that's it. It's just dumb.

Matherly
2007-Jun-15, 02:17 PM
A bad fantasy movie cliche. When dealing with the heroes, the villain/dark lord in his utter contempt will always forgo crushing them outright, but instead will inexplicably choose to deploy his weakest weapons/minions against them first, thus allowing the heroes ample opportunity to build up their strength to the point where they become a bona fide threat.

#80 on Peter's Evil Overlord List (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

captain swoop
2007-Jun-15, 02:18 PM
Getting up high seems to be a reflex defensive thing.

How about knives or swords that make a metallic 'Kchang' sound when the light catches them?

captain swoop
2007-Jun-15, 02:31 PM
Or car tyres that squeal on a dirt road

Matherly
2007-Jun-15, 02:39 PM
How about knives or swords that make a metallic 'Kchang' sound when the light catches them?

On one of the commentaries in the Return of the King Extended DVDs, someone (an effects guy, I think) was complaining how whenever you draw a sword in a movie it makes a metal-on-metal grating sound.

Swift
2007-Jun-15, 03:43 PM
Back to an earlier topic... about Boy Meets Girl, etc. There is this version (http://home.netcom.com/~swansont/boymeetsgirl.html) of it. ;)

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-15, 04:49 PM
Virtually all bullets make a ricochet sound, even when there's nothing--or at least very unlikely--that they could ricochet off of, e.g. dirt, plaster, snow and trees.

Bullets into the chest kill instantly. In real life, about the only way to kill someone with a gun instantly is to hit them in the head and cause a deal of brain damage.

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-15, 06:15 PM
Bullets into the shoulder etc enable the hero to carry on with a bandaid & make a full recovery by the final act. Never mind the shattered bone fragments in the blood stream etc etc

SkepticJ
2007-Jun-17, 06:47 AM
Physical injury as comedy. Especially physical injury of one sort or another to the male gonads. Anyone who thinks that's humorous has never been hurt that way, or if they have, they have some sort of mental illness to think it's still funny. The only pain I've ever felt worse than a hard hit to them is when I snapped my ACL in half a few months ago, which is the sort of pain that makes you wish you were dead.

A certain very loud cat screech sound effect that is used whenever a cat is scared or injured somewhere out of frame.

Clueless parents, especially clueless and stupid fathers. (I'm not even a father and this bothers me!)

Doctor Know
2007-Jun-17, 07:13 AM
Clueless parents, especially clueless and stupid fathers. (I'm not even a father and this bothers me!)

Yeah...that goes with the tired cliche of the kid always knows more than the adults.

In the old and dumb department it's also mandatory in the movies that if you are a senior officer in any police force that you have no computer skills.

First aid kits are always fully stocked and easy to locate. That seldom happens in real life.

My favorite war movie cliche. In a protracted encounter between submarine and destroyer, the respective captains will develop a grudging respect for each other.

EDG
2007-Jun-17, 07:16 AM
Have we had these yet?

The dog that inevitably survives, no matter what. Like in Dante's Peak, where they find the dog miraculously stuck on a rock in the middle of a lava flow (that they're driving through, but let's not get into that ;)) and who then jumps onto the truck as it passes. Or the dog that just leaps through the side door in the road tunnel as the blastwave hits in Independence Day.

The kids that inevitably survive. It's a hollywood rule that you can't show the deaths of child characters on screen. Which is generally a good thing, but it makes it a bit predictable. I mean, you just knew those kids weren't going to get torn to bits when the velociraptors got in the building in the first Jurassic Park...

It's not so much a cliche, but you can take it as read that if a movie has a "Scientific Advisor", the director is going to completely ignore him throughout the film :)

Maksutov
2007-Jun-17, 08:29 AM
Physical injury as comedy. Especially physical injury of one sort or another to the male gonads. Anyone who thinks that's humorous has never been hurt that way, or if they have, they have some sort of mental illness to think it's still funny. The only pain I've ever felt worse than a hard hit to them is when I snapped my ACL in half a few months ago, which is the sort of pain that makes you wish you were dead....I'm with you on that.

It seems that when "comedy" writers for current movies run out of ideas (usually within the first five minutes or so), they figure it's time some male cast member took a shot to the crotch.

Could someone tell these imbeciles that was worn out the second time it was used?

Meanwhile, here's a clich&#233; that might have been mentioned before but always irks me:

THE SOLE SURVIVOR ™

Typically the only person who still remembers the civilization that has been wiped out, etc.

Many examples to choose from, e.g., the Old Man in Logan's Run, the Time Traveler in The Time Machine, heck, even Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars.

It's always at least one, never zero.

Gillianren
2007-Jun-17, 11:09 AM
First aid kits are always fully stocked and easy to locate. That seldom happens in real life.

To my great horror, the library at my alma mater owns, or is supposed to own, a defibrillator. What was that we were saying about physical injury not being funny?

And oh, Gods, it isn't. I can't watch any movie that's described as being a "live-action cartoon," because that basically means that people are going to be injured in ways that should incapacitate them over and over again for an hour and a half. It's not funny. In fact, after the first five minutes, it's just tedious. It's different when it's the Coyote; you don't have to imagine his medical bills.

ggremlin
2007-Jun-17, 12:20 PM
Book of Swords Fight Cliches:

1. Hero must, during the fight, impale his sword into a heavy wooden object that must be impossible to extract. Evil (insert) is to take a wild swing at hero's head which takes evil (insert) within range of hero's leg. Hero easily ducks under strike and kicks evil () hard enough to drive him thirty feet away.

Hero now either
a. gets 30&#37; increase of strength to extract sword from wooden object if sword is important to storyline.
b. picks up convenient second sword if impaled sword is common.

Fight continues:

2. Evil () must at some point cut hero's sword in two, then must allow hero time to either:

a. Stare stupidly at broken sword and get another.
b. Drive broken end into evil ()'s unprotected chest.

Fight continues if a is selected or evil () has no heart doing option b.

3. In the final moments of the fight, evil () must fling sand, ashes or other convenient debris into hero's eyes temporarily blinding him.

Evil () must wait for hero to do following:
a. Preform flashback in order to become Sonar, the Batboy.
b. Fall into nearby liquid pool so he can recover his sight. Evil () may assist hero in this, if he wishes.

Hero will now finish fight in the next thirty seconds, winning of course, evil () is allowed Grand Exit.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-17, 01:44 PM
Book of Swords Fight Cliches:[edit]
Hero will now finish fight in the next thirty seconds, winning of course, evil () is allowed Grand Exit.Now you know why, when I see a film described as "Action" or "Martial Arts", I skip it.

Delvo
2007-Jun-17, 03:11 PM
The dog that inevitably survives, no matter what.I think this recent development is a good one. It's a counterreaction to the old rule that dominated for decades up to sometime around 1990, that if an animal appeared in a movie, it would have to die, especially in a very loud or graphic way. Now THAT was a clich&#233;! When it finally switched because the "creative" folks finally realized how ridiculous it had gotten, my reaction to those scenes you're talking about was "Yay! Finally someone breaks the standard rule on this!"

Roy Batty
2007-Jun-17, 03:31 PM
Well if I ever found myself in some sort of Hollywoodesque disaster situation, I would immediately strap myself to the nearest dog - in much the same way that if I ever found myself falling from a height, I'd attach myself to the nearest available cat's back :D

ASEI
2007-Jun-17, 04:44 PM
Holding a gun sideways and/or one handed and expecting to hit anything at all, even if it's 10 ft away. Especially if the character doesn't have any sort of practice with a firearm. If someone's shooting at you, you hope he's holding the thing sideways - better chance of shooting his henchman, or the dog two blocks over than you.

EDG
2007-Jun-17, 04:47 PM
Holding a gun sideways and/or one handed and expecting to hit anything at all, even if it's 10 ft away. Especially if the character doesn't have any sort of practice with a firearm. If someone's shooting at you, you hope he's holding the thing sideways - better chance of shooting his henchman, or the dog two blocks over than you.

I've heard that if you fired a handgun sideways like that in real life it'd probably break your wrist (probably due to the recoil)?

Gillianren
2007-Jun-17, 04:51 PM
I know there's been at least one CSI that mentioned that sort of problem. In fact, it was mentioned that the shooter in question had clearly learned everything they knew about guns from TV/movies.

Matherly
2007-Jun-17, 04:59 PM
THE SOLE SURVIVOR ™

(snip)

heck, even Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars.

(Matherly goes geeky and completely misses the point)

Obi-Wan seemed to be in good company of those who remember the past

Yoda
Vader
Palapintine
Uncle Owen
Aunt Beru
Bail Organa
Etc.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-17, 05:10 PM
I've heard that if you fired a handgun sideways like that in real life it'd probably break your wrist (probably due to the recoil)?

Only if it's a Magnum or larger, and the gunframe is too light to absorb the momentum. It takes a lot of recoil to break an average wrist.

Maksutov
2007-Jun-17, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Maksutov http://www.bautforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=1010044#post1010044)
THE SOLE SURVIVOR ™

(snip)

heck, even Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars.
(Matherly goes geeky and completely misses the point)

Obi-Wan seemed to be in good company of those who remember the past

Yoda
Vader
Palapintine
Uncle Owen
Aunt Beru
Bail Organa
Etc.Note I wrote Star Wars. That's what the original film was known as in 1977.

In 1977 there was no Yoda, Palpatine, Bail Organa, etc. Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru hinted at knowing a bit about Luke's past as peripheral players, but that was it. The only one in the film who was "a sole survivor" was Obi-Wan. Of course Vader knew what Kenobi knew, but he had become part of the system, not a sole survivor of its ravages.

Point still still stands firmly.

Lord Jubjub
2007-Jun-17, 06:59 PM
Well, in defense of Star Wars, the lonely survivor who remembers the past is a cliche that stretches back several millenia.

Noclevername
2007-Jun-17, 07:04 PM
Well, in defense of Star Wars, the lonely survivor who remembers the past is a cliche that stretches back several millenia.


Most of the original Star Wars story is a millenia-old cliche; a farmboy discovers that his father was a knight, inherits his father's sword from the local wizard, who teaches him magical powers, they gather a band of adventurers who sneak into a Dark Lord's fortress, rescue a princess, fight an epic battle and topple an Evil Empire.

I'm sure that story was being told "a long time ago".