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kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 08:31 AM
This is another Bricker quiz, much like the last one (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=25730#25730), with similar rules, with one added feature: this time there are two acceptable answers to each question. Acceptable in what manner, you may ask? Acceptable to me, and just like last time, the answers could change if I am convinced I am wrong. Reviewing that previous quiz (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=25730#25730) will be helpful, and it is also helpful to note that this is a USA-centric quiz (just don't take that too far.)

1. What is the third largest planet in the solar system?
2. What is the brightest star in the sky?
3. What country is closest to the north magnetic pole of the Earth?
4. What is the altitude of a perfectly geostationary satellite (hint: to the nearest 10,000 km)?
5. Who was the first human in space?
6. How many moons does Jupiter have?
7. In 2003, what is the shortest day of the year?
8. Who was the last person on the moon?
9. How long does it take the moon to go around the Earth (to the nearest day)?
10. How many questions are in this astronomy quiz?

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 08:34 AM
1. Pluto
2. Polaris
3. Panama
4. parsec
5. Al Gore
6. plenty
7. leap day
8. Neil Armstrong
9. 365 days
10. 0

Current scores
0 kilopi

ToSeek
2003-Jun-22, 02:05 PM
Do we get credit for supplying both answers? I'm going to try, anyway:

1. Uranus (by diameter), Neptune (by mass).
2. Sirius (apparent magnitude), Pistol Star (absolute magnitude).
3. Canada (north the compass points to), Australia (what would be north on a magnet)
4. 35,000 km (geostationary orbit), 155,822,900 km (Earth-Sun L4/L5 points, which are stable)
5. Yuri Gagarin (first human in orbit), Alexei Leonov (first space walk)
6. 61 (current known count), lots (because they're more we haven't found yet).
7. December 21 (northern hemisphere), June 21 (southern hemisphere), February 6 (day I had the flu and slept till noon, then went to bed at 7)
8. Gene Cernan (last to step off the Moon), Harrison Schmitt (last to step on the Moon)
9. 27 days (to same position against background of stars), 29 days (full Moon to full Moon).
10. 10, 9 (if you don't count this one)

waynek
2003-Jun-22, 05:09 PM
ToSeek seems to have done very well, but I disagree with him on some answers. For clarity, I'll only provide explanation on the ones that differ from his.

1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun (since he didn't exclude it), Sirius (not including Sun)
3. Canada, Australia
4. 35,000 (altitude), 40,000 (geocentric distance)
5. Yuri Gagarin (normal answer) Joseph Kittinger (30 km in 1957)
6. 61, billions (including ring particles)
7. December 21, June 21
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 29 days
10. 9 or 10

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-22, 05:21 PM
1. Neptune
2. The Sun
3. Canada
4. 40,000km
5. ?
6. what is it now, 62? I think it's now changing daily.
7. Whatever day in autumn we turn the clocks back (October 17?)
8. ?
9. 28 days
10. 10 questions

Rats, didn't have a clue to 20% of the questions.

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 05:54 PM
Good answers! Some of them make it difficult to maintain my limit of only two answers for each question. Actually, I'm accepting a range of values for the answer to one question--and I'm uneasy with the response I'm sure to get.

As in the last challenge, you can change your answers, but if your answer is wrong, your score will decrease. Please don't edit your previous posts. For instance, I could include the line

6. 4, any answer more than 60

and my previous answer of "plenty" is superceded. Highest possible score: 20

Current scores
15 waynek
14 ToSeek
6 TriangleMan
2 kilopi

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-22, 06:01 PM
Hey I didn't realize that you would be scoring both answers, I figured that you just had to name one of the two. Here's the second set:

1. Uranus
2. Sirius
3. Antarctica
4. ?
5. ?
6. millions, counting all of the small rocks that make up the ring
7. I think I get it now: Dec 21 (northern hemisphere) June 21 (southern hemisphere)
8. ?
9. 29 days?
10. 11 questions (there was one in the opening paragraph)

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 06:15 PM
In this case, TriangleMan, I'll accept those answers as in addition to the previous answers, instead of superceding the previous answers, with the exception of your two answers to question 7 (although I will remind everyone of my earlier comment that the answers will be USA-centric).

Current scores
15 waynek
14 ToSeek
9 TriangleMan
2 kilopi

PS: everyone is allowed to look at everyone else's paper

tracer
2003-Jun-22, 06:53 PM
3. Antarctica
Silly boy, Antarctica isn't a country!

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-22, 07:01 PM
3. Antarctica
Silly boy, Antarctica isn't a country!

The CIA (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html) seem to think it is. :P

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 07:38 PM
The CIA (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html) seem to think it is.
I dunno, this page at that CIA site (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ay.html#Govt) seems to say differently.

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-22, 07:58 PM
I guess its moot anyway - a portion of it is set to become part of the Dominion of Melchizedek (http://www.melchizedek.com/antarctica/aq_info.htm)! :lol: Can I change my answer? :wink:

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 08:21 PM
Can I change my answer?
Absolutely! (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=105268#105268) Just remember to include both answers to the question, so that there's no confusion about which answer you are replacing.

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-22, 08:28 PM
That's okay, I won't change my answer. It's too tempting to change the answer to the Dominion of Melchizedek! :lol:

(Thread's starting to go OT so I'll just go away now.) Back to the Quiz everyone!

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 08:55 PM
Ah, go ahead. The Bricker challenges are meant to be iterative, and cumulative, and you're supposed to borrow from others answers. Just look at Wiley's acceptance speech from last year (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=25975#25975).

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-22, 09:14 PM
1. What is the third largest planet in the solar system?

a) Uranus (diameter)
b) Neptune (Mass)

2. What is the brightest star in the sky?

a) The Sun
b) Sirius (assuming that star means non-solar?)

3. What country is closest to the north magnetic pole of the Earth?

a) Canada (holds UN membership)
b) Nunavat (self-governing area of above - could be accounted a country in the same sense as Scotland)

4. What is the altitude of a perfectly geostationary satellite (hint: to the nearest 10,000 km)?

Well...

a) 35,700km (standard equatorial, zero eccentricity)
b) There is no such thing as a perfectly geostationary satellite due to lunar and solar perturbations

But I also considered:

Indefinite - if thrust can be applied to the satellite. (But only works while your fuel holds out)
Any distance less than 35,700 km if satellite is tethered to a body in a higher orbit and the masses balance just right
Any distance less than 35,700 km if satellite is attached to a space elevator ;)

5. Who was the first human in space?

a) By internationally accepted definition of space: Yuri Gagarin
b) By USAF definition of space (>50 miles): Robert White (X-15) [but I'm not at all certain here]

6. How many moons does Jupiter have?

a) We don't know
b) We've found 61

7. In 2003, what is the shortest day of the year?

a) December 22 (northern hemisphere)
b) June 21 (southern hemisphere)

8. Who was the last person on the moon?

a) Gene Cernan (last living person - Apollo astronaut)
b) Eugene Shoemaker (posthumously - ashes carried on Lunar Prospector)

9. How long does it take the moon to go around the Earth (to the nearest day)?

a) Time between full moons (Synodic period): 29.5 days
b) Sidereal period (with respect to the stars): 27 days

(difference due to the earth-moon system moving along in its orbit in that time)

10. How many questions are in this astronomy quiz?

a) 10
b) 11 - if you count the preamble

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-22, 09:32 PM
Well, I didn't realise I could read other posts and change my answers. So...

2 (actually has three answers)

Canada (designated north due to geographical position)
Australia (actual north pole in electromagnetic terms - Tasmania looks like the nearest large land mass to me, anyway)

But instead of Australia, one could put France, since they have a territorial claim on Adelie Land in Antarctica. This, like all such claims is not internationally recognised, but neither is the USAF's definition of space...

3 I won't actually change, but has a potential 3rd answer - c) we don't know (if we are talking absolute magnitude)

kilopi
2003-Jun-22, 09:36 PM
Excellent post, Grand Vizier, I'm scoring it a 13 (oops, 14, our posts crossed).

I can see that I'm setting myself up for some arguments! Ah, well, it's my contest, and part of the contest is you have to read my mind. :) I gave away a couple answers just because I figured my answers would not be popular--but now you have to include those answers in your answers, to get credit.

One more hint: in a couple questions, I mention that the answer is to be to the nearest day, or nearest 10,000 km. I've been giving credit for any answers which are higher precision, and closer to an actual answer than my answer.

ToSeek
2003-Jun-23, 02:23 AM
All right, I'm going to try to take advantage of accumulated knowledge to up my score:

2. Sun (apparent magnitude), Pistol Star (absolute magnitude)
7. December 22 (winter solstice - I had the wrong day before), April 6 (daylight savings time begins)
8. Gene Cernan, Gene Shoemaker (someone had the reasons above)

kilopi
2003-Jun-23, 05:46 AM
Current scores
15 waynek
14 ToSeek
14 Grand Vizier
9 TriangleMan
2 kilopi

[Oops, the nine fell over when I was carting it over]

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-23, 11:21 AM
Huh? I dropped three points without changing any answers :-?

[edited to add: Okay, fixed now, thanks kilopi.]

Mainframes
2003-Jun-23, 01:09 PM
Just a quick question, but isn't there only one answer for third largest planet in the solar system. The answers given by mass would answer the question 'What is the third most massive planet in the solar system?'

Or am I being really over picky...?

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-23, 01:43 PM
Just a quick question, but isn't there only one answer for third largest planet in the solar system. The answers given by mass would answer the question 'What is the third most massive planet in the solar system?'

Or am I being really over picky...?

I must admit that I get muddled as to what 'largest' implies. I think I've settled for it meaning - by default (if unqualified) - 'largest in extent' (usually area or volume) but acknowledge that it can refer to another associated property. If I were writing an astronomy piece, I'd use 'most massive' if I was referring to mass to avoid ambiguity.

But from www.dictionary.com...


large ( P )
adj. larg·er, larg·est
Of greater than average size, extent, quantity, or amount; big. [...]

So kilopi is following good usage by these criteria.

logicboy
2003-Jun-23, 03:29 PM
1) Neptune (Mass), Uranus (Diamter)

2) The Sun

3) Greenland, Chile

4) 37,000 km

5) ? sputnik :P

6) 61 so far... or billions depends on what classifies as a moon

7) All of my days off

8) Tommy Lee Jones ( Space Cowboys ) That was real right :P

9) 28 days

10) 10

kilopi
2003-Jun-23, 03:41 PM
Or am I being really over picky...?
No, picky is good. This is the BABB after all. :)

And congratulations everyone, we've matched the record number of players set in the last contest.

Current scores
15 waynek
14 ToSeek
14 Grand Vizier
9 TriangleMan
6 logicboy
2 kilopi

Sorry about the foulup TriangleMan. I'll make sure and do it again.

ToSeek
2003-Jun-23, 03:55 PM
For instance, I could include the line

6. 4, any answer more than 60

and my previous answer of "plenty" is superceded.

Is this a hypothetical or is this part of your revised set of answers?

kilopi
2003-Jun-23, 03:59 PM
Is this a hypothetical or is this part of your revised set of answers?
I know I've screwed up TriangleMan's score, but I've fixed that--and my score is now 2!

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-23, 04:04 PM
OK, time to play catch-up.

Changing 5b to Joseph Kittinger (I just wouldn't have thought of that programme)

Moons of Jupiter:

6. How many moons does Jupiter have?

a) 61 (assuming all satellites are termed moons)
b) 4 - the Galilean satellites (defining a 'moon' as a spheroidal satellite)

[We had a recent thread about this, and some felt that 'satellite and 'moon' were synonyms, others (can't find the thread, but I'm trying to read Kilopi's mind here), that definition b) applied]

ToSeek
2003-Jun-23, 05:13 PM
Is this a hypothetical or is this part of your revised set of answers?
I know I've screwed up TriangleMan's score, but I've fixed that--and my score is now 2!

That doesn't answer my question.

eburacum45
2003-Jun-23, 07:54 PM
1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun , Pistol Star
3. Canada, Australia
4. 35,700, no perfectly stable geostationary orbit is possible (nothing is perfect)
5. Yuri Gagarin, Joseph Kittinger
6. 4, any answer larger than 60
7. December 21, June 21
8. Gene Cernan, Gene Shoemaker
9. 27 days, 29 days
10. 10 0r 20

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-23, 08:36 PM
Aaargh...

I'm probably throwing the game away here, but I can't resist getting there first with this one. You didn't actually mention 'orbit' in No 4.

So make my answers:

4.

a) 35,700km
b) 0 (zero) km

Oh, very funny...

kilopi
2003-Jun-23, 11:16 PM
but I'm trying to read Kilopi's mind here
Highly recommended, and you're doing a good job. However, in reviewing your score I found an inconsistency--one of your previous posts (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=105338#105338) seems to have switched the numbering of the questions 2 and 3, but I didn't notice before, and it was clear (to me) which question you were trying to answer, so I won't go back and change the scoring.

Also, I notice all answers have now appeared, except one, so they're not too outrageous. Hmm...I better modify one of my own answers (no screaming):

5. Adam

That doesn't answer my question.
Sorry, I thought it did--in combination with my previous answers, and scoring.

Current scores
16 Grand Vizier
15 waynek
14 ToSeek
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
6 logicboy
3 kilopi

ToSeek
2003-Jun-24, 12:34 AM
Also, I notice all answers have now appeared, except one, so they're not too outrageous. Hmm...I better modify one of my own answers (no screaming):

5. Adam


WHAT!? ;)

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 12:54 AM
I said no screaming. :)

It's a metaphor. To make a point.

Ah, what the h*y, I don't got no good excuse... I'm sorry.

Al
2003-Jun-24, 01:07 AM
Hey, I want in on this. And since I can copy&paste--er--look at anyone else's answers, and I am coming in late--here's my highly unoriginal submission:

1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 35,700, no perfectly stable geostationary orbit is possible (nothing is perfect)
5. Yuri Gagarin, Robert White
6. 4, 61 and counting
7. December 21, First Sunday in April (USA centric you said, right? Both of these are),
8. The two Genes. Looking for a genetic pun, can't find one. Oh, yeah, this is not "Badbiology"....
9. a) Time between full moons (Synodic period): 29 days
b) Sidereal period (with respect to the stars): 27 days
10. 10, 21

I have a question: What is the second longest month of the year?

Al
2003-Jun-24, 01:16 AM
Actually, one could argue:
5: Jesus. I refer you to Matthew 4:8. Unless the Earth is flat. Must be mountains on the moon, right? or are those just the lips of craters?
Don't want to get into the theological dispute of whether JC was human. Whoever gave "Adam" as a reply is responsible for starting this....

Al
2003-Jun-24, 01:25 AM
After looking at the questions again, I want to change one answer:
4a. 40,000km

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 01:31 AM
After looking at the questions again, I want to change one answer:
4a. 40,000km
And welcome to the BABB, Al, thanks for playing. This is as good a time as any to warn about round-off. 42000 km is as good as 35,700 km in that particular case, since I asked to the nearest 10,000 km, even though one figure represents a geocentric value, and the other an altitude above the Earth's surface--in fact, I mentioned that as an explicit hint that those were not the two distinct values I was looking for.

Current scores
16 Grand Vizier
15 waynek
15 Al
14 ToSeek
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
6 logicboy
3 kilopi

ToSeek
2003-Jun-24, 01:46 AM
All right, I'm going to do this scientifically and only change one variable at a time. Here's one updated answer:

5. Adam (!?), Yuri Gagarin.

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 01:48 AM
Current scores
16 Grand Vizier
15 waynek
15 Al
15 TortoiSe
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
6 logicboy
3 kilopi

Al
2003-Jun-24, 02:20 AM
Another change:
9a. 30 days

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-24, 02:50 AM
Gawd, this summer insomnia - anyway, Al's answer set me thinking, so here's a change in my 9:

9a: 27 terrestrial days
9b: 1 lunar day

Like the man said, change one variable at a time...

nebularain
2003-Jun-24, 03:44 AM
All right, I'll bite.

1. Uranus, Neptune
2. Sol, Sirius
3. Antarctica, Australia
4. 40,000km, 0km
5. Adam (still haven't figured your frame of reference), Yuri Gagarin
6. 4, 61+
7. April 6, Dec. 22
8. Gene Cernan, Gene Shoemaker
9. 27 days, 29 days
10. 10, 20

waynek
2003-Jun-24, 05:54 AM
Okay, I've lost my early lead, time to stand on some shoulders and fix some answers that I now "get".

4. 40,000 km, 0 km (Good call Grand Vizier, very clever)

5. Yuri Gagarin, Adam (took me a while to get this one. "space" doesn't have to mean "outer space", it could mean "anywhere".)

6. 61, 4 (still not sure about this one, seems like some of the others are still pretty decent sized.)

I'll refrain from changing any more for now, I want to see if these actually help first. :wink:

logicboy
2003-Jun-24, 11:56 AM
Update to my moon answer
9) 27 orbit, 30 new moon

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 01:05 PM
Tough one. The Adjudication Committee met and after sixteen hours of nonstop deliberation decided that "day" means Earth day, but it was decided by only one vote, so it could have gone either way.

Current scores
18 waynek
16 Al
16 nebularain
15 Grand Vizier
15 ToSeek
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
8 logicboy
3 kilopi

All right, neb! Good to see you in the hunt. I wonder where SeanF is?

ToSeek
2003-Jun-24, 01:59 PM
6. 4, lots*


*lots is more than 61

SeanF
2003-Jun-24, 02:05 PM
I wonder where SeanF is?

Shhh! I'm waiting to get report as missing (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5237)!

Ah, what the heck, no one cares . . .

How about these:

1) Uranus / Neptune
2) The Sun / Sirius
3) Canada / Australia
4) 40000km / 0km
5) Adam / Yuri Gagarin
6) 4 / More than 60
7) Dec 21 / June 21
8) We don't know yet / Gene Cernan / Harrison Schmitt
9) 29 days
10) 10

nebularain
2003-Jun-24, 02:15 PM
1. Uranus, Neptune
2. Sol, Sirius
3. Antarctica, Australia
4. 40,000km, 0km
5. Adam (still haven't figured your frame of reference), Yuri Gagarin
6. 4, 61+
7. June 21, Dec. 21
8. Gene Cernan, Gene Shoemaker
9. 27 days, 29 days
10. 10, 20

Al
2003-Jun-24, 02:27 PM
--OK, I'll change some answers, tho I probably should wait to see my present score, then change one at a time, as others have figured. Trying to figure out Kilopi's self-score of three (re second post, right after the questions). Only his answer to #6 is obvious to me, tho I'm trying to figure some way to argue for the last two.

--[Late flash—while procrastinating about sending this, the scores come in. I’m sending this unedited anyway. Things to do, miles to go before I sleep….]

--My dictionary gives one definition for "moon" as "earth's only known natural satellite...", so that gives me an option. GV’s earlier post on “moon” def’s gives me some pause, tho. Astronomers and other specialists decide their own definitions. Let us know when you find that thread. Dictionary def’s of “star” and “sky” help (or hurt, depending on kilopi’s leaning) for question 2.

--The Old Farmer's Almanac gives the winter solstice as 12/22 just after 2AM Eastern Standard Time, so a "USA centric" answer could be either the 21st or the 22nd. But with the solstice at 12:04 AM Mountain Time, those two days must be damn close in Albuquerque and Alberta. Sad to say, the OFA (published a few miles from here) has made some astronomical goofs lately (times for last month's lunar eclipse, and date of last November's Leonid shower), but NOAA and other online sources agree this time.

--Not sure what to do with "only KNOWN natural satellite". My old Merriam-Webster’s is copyright 1967. Any other rocks out there discovered recently that would fit that definition? Anyway, there is really only one "moon", I'll argue, and it ain't around Jupiter.

--I’m dropping Shoemaker. Ashes don’t make it in my book (hopefully not in kilopi’s either). Neil, Buzz and others must have managed to leave behind some cells and DNA—despite being suited up. What of it? Most of Eugene went up in smoke before he left earth.

--So here’s my whole updated list, in toto to make it easier for our tallyman and for other plagiarists like me.

--BTW, what happened to ToSeek, and who is this TortoiSe person? Problems with your SpellcHeck, kilopi?

1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 35,700, no perfectly stable geostationary orbit is possible (nothing is perfect)
5. Yuri Gagarin, Robert White
6. none, plenty
7. December 22, April 6
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 30 days, 27 days
10. 10, 21

[edited to separate paragraphs in my rambling message]
[edited again to correct a minor punctuation problem]
[edited a third time to add these last two explanatory notes, when I realized Big Brother was noting how many times I edited, and the second was unexplained]

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 04:10 PM
BTW, what happened to ToSeek, and who is this TortoiSe person? Problems with your SpellcHeck, kilopi?
Yeah, that's it. :)

Current scores
18 waynek
16 ToSeek
16 SeanF
15 nebularain
15 Grand Vizier
14 Al
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
8 logicboy
3 kilopi

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-24, 04:17 PM
Nice one Al. I'm grinding my teeth over the US-centric Daylight Savings Time bit (if that is right), and here I'm doing UK-centric thinking with December 22 (though it looks like kilopi's accepting 21/22). Goes to show. I'm still tempted to throw in March 30 as a partiotic gesture, though. :)

In any case, I could do worse than repro wayneks's answers with one change - which should be right from Al's score.

1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 35,700km, 0km
5. Yuri Gagarin, Adam
6. 61, 4
7. December 21, June 21
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 29.5 days
10. 9 or 10

Synodic period changed from 29 to 29.5 days (Al was marked down one point for having this as 29 days).

If we have a 19 here, then it's down to one of 2 answers, and I think I know which one.

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 04:20 PM
Current scores
19 Grand Vizier
18 waynek
16 ToSeek
16 SeanF
15 nebularain
14 Al
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
8 logicboy
3 kilopi

SeanF
2003-Jun-24, 04:25 PM
Okay, a couple changes:

5) Adam / Gagarin / Kittinger
9) 27 / 29
10) 10 / 11

nebularain
2003-Jun-24, 04:34 PM
1. Uranus, Neptune
2. Sol, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 40,000km, 0km
5. Adam, Yuri Gagarin
6. 4, 61+
7. April 6, June 22
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 29 days
10. 10, 9

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 04:38 PM
Current scores
19 Grand Vizier
18 waynek
17 nebularain
17 SeanF
16 ToSeek
14 Al
13 eburacum45
9 TriangleMan
8 logicboy
3 kilopi

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-24, 04:44 PM
Ok, changing answer to Question 10 to:

10, 50

(That's what I make it so far - and does the use of a question mark as a place-holder constitute a question?) I'm tempted to reproduce them all here, but that would be evil - and too much work. I'm probably wrong here - but the answer should tell me something. :)

nebularain
2003-Jun-24, 04:45 PM
1. Uranus, Neptune
2. Sol, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 40,000km, 0km
5. Adam, Yuri Gagarin
6. 4, 61+
7. April 6, June 22
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 29 days
10. 10, 11

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-24, 04:51 PM
Scratch that last change in the light of nebularain's:

1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 35,700km, 0km
5. Yuri Gagarin, Adam
6. 61, 4
7. December 21, April 6
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 29.5 days
10. 9 or 10

Change to April 6 in Q7. It had to be, I guess, from the US-centric thing. Still don't see how you get 9 questions...

SeanF
2003-Jun-24, 04:57 PM
New answers

1) Uranus / Neptune
2) The Sun / Sirius
3) Canada / Australia
4) 40000km / 0km
5) Adam / Yuri Gagarin
6) 4 / More than 60
7) Dec 21 / April 6
8) Gene Cernan / Harrison Schmitt
9) 27 / 29.5 days
10) 10 / 11

[Edited to add this (I did not change my answers!):]
Alright, K-pi, get your butt back here and give us some updated scores!

Al
2003-Jun-24, 07:03 PM
--I’ve been ruminating on this shortest-day-in-which-time-zone thing. In the US, the shortest day is Dec 21st, 2003, in the Pacific Time Zone and westward (i.e. Alaska and Hawai’i). It’s mighty close in Mountain Standard Time, with the solstice at 12:04 MST. So, what would be the shortest day if the solstice had just happened to fall exactly at midnight? Can someone rationalize how one or the other of the adjacent days would be longer by a nanosecond or so? Other considerations come to mind, which I’ll leave. Perhaps this should be a new thread. Also, although the moment of the solstice should be pretty universal on earth, the shortest day (=duration of daylight) might be more tied in to local time than to standard time.
--Then there's my earlier question: What is the second longest month?
--ooh--a quick thought (fast edit). Perhaps the shortest day is January 1st? Tidal friction makes each day slightly longer? Does that work, or are there too many other variables?
--another quick thought/edit: Does the shortest day come when the earth is at perihelion? That's Jan 3 or 4, according to the highly fallable OFA....

RichField
2003-Jun-24, 08:48 PM
1. Saturn (counting sun and moon as planets) or (angle subtended as seen from earth) / Jupiter (combine previous two)
2. Sun / Arcturus (visible from all of U.S.^h^h^h^h N. Hemisphere)- doh, Sirius is still visible from all of the U.S., but just barely, only a couple of degrees above the horizon.
3. Canada/ Austrailia
4. 36,000 km, 0 km
5. Adam (I get it, but waynek got it, but I missed it the first time I read his post), Yuri Gagarin
6. 4, 61
7. December 21, December 22 (to the nearest second I get that they have the same length)
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 29.5 days
10. 10, 15

frenat
2003-Jun-24, 09:24 PM
1. Uranus, Neptune
2. The Sun, Sirius
3. Canada, Australia
4. 40,000km (rounded to nearest 10,000 km), 0km
5. Yuri Gagarin, Adam
6. 61, 4
7. December 21, April 6
8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt
9. 27 days, 30 days (rounded to nearest day)
10. 10, 11

kilopi
2003-Jun-24, 10:21 PM
Alright, K-pi, get your butt back here and give us some updated scores!
Sorry, sorry, I meant to, but I had some chores.

I'm declaring Grand Vizier the winner, because he has the same answers that I started with. That doesn't make them right, especially after all I've learned during the course of this challenge. Good work, guys.

1. Uranus (by diameter), Neptune (by mass)

2. Sun, Sirius (brightest star in night sky), I almost accepted ToSeek's star of brightest absolute magnitude, but I reasoned that the use of the word "sky" meant as viewed from the Earth, and we would still have no idea which one for sure.

3. Canada, Australia (it's closest to the South Magnetic Pole, which is a north magnetic pole, although there is plenty of disagreement about where the poles actually are.)

4. 40,000 km (both altitude above the center of the Earth, and above the surface of the Earth round to the same number), 0 km (can't get more stationary than that!)

5. Yuri Gagarin, Adam (we're in space, right? That's the point I was trying to make with this question), again I almost accepted ToSeek's Leonov, the first spacewalker, but it seems he was no more in space than Gagarin was. I considered Yuri's claim in competition with the others who were mentioned in connection with suborbital flights (only one of them could be one of the right answers), and decided arbitrarily that Yuri had the best claim.

6. 4 (the Galiean moons), and any number over 60 (I gave these out as a freebie in this post (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=105268#105268)). Hey, it's my contest. Someone mentioned that a lot of the other moons of Jupiter are fairly large, but they're still a lot smaller than a bunch of the asteroids.

7. The first day of winter, and the last day of daylight saving time, for obvious reasons. I actually added the comment about USA-centric questions to avoid the other hemisphere distinction on the first answer. And I wasn't being picky about the actual dates, as someone noticed.

8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt (see the last quiz for an explanation, I considered Grand Vizier's suggestion of Eugene Shoemaker, but I'm almost certain that he's not all there anyway--otherwise we'd have to count some of those anonymous DNA particles that drifted into the system.)

9. 27 days (sidereal period of 27 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes ), 30 days (synodic period of 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes--closest whole day is 30.)

10. 10, 9 (I almost accepted TriangleMan's 11--maybe even a better answer--but I'd stuck in the word "astronomy" into the question so that my answers were more acceptable. Unfortunately, that makes 11 less acceptable.)

Congratulations, Grand Vizier!

How did you know that the answer to number 10 was 9?

nebularain
2003-Jun-24, 11:17 PM
Congratulations, Grand Vizier!

Hey, since I helped you get the last answer correctly, do I get a cookie? :D

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-24, 11:33 PM
I WON, YO!

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Congratulations, Grand Vizier!

Hey, since I helped you get the last answer correctly, do I get a cookie? :D

**** :D :D :D COOKIE :D :D :D **** (And not one of them cheap 3rd-party ones neither.)

Thanks nebularain. And also thanks to waynek , SeanF, ToSeek , Al, eburacum45 , TriangleMan, logicboy, and of course kilopi for a fine collaborative/competitive effort.

Now I know there are many going to be many niggles about the answers, but as the gracious winner, I am not going to go there (except to say that I admit I had to wince slightly about Question 5 - though kp had bailed us out there).

But it isn't easy thinking these things up - and making them challenging - and then you've got to stick with it and adjudicate and all. So let's hear it for kilopi for the entertainment and work he's put in here. It's a good format, and I hope there'll be more like this (although I don't expect to luck out like I did once in there).

Finally, I'd like to thank my mother, my two lovely cats, and of course Gwyneth Paltrow (sob)...

[edited to include more thanks...]

Al
2003-Jun-24, 11:39 PM
--Congrats, GV! Hey, this is fun, at least more fun than what I should be doing.
--When I have a chance, I'll repost my questions (and maybe others) on another thread. Guess I should get back to work....

kilopi
2003-Jun-25, 12:13 AM
I almost forgot to credit zwi for inspiring question number 7 (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=104657#104657). Thanks.

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-25, 10:57 AM
Congrats Grand Vizier! 8)

(BTW, I still think Antarctica is a country :P)

SeanF
2003-Jun-25, 02:03 PM
Congrats, Vizier! How do you feel knowing that you think more like Kilopi than any of the rest of us do? ;)

I still don't see how he figures 9 is an acceptable answer to the last question, though. :(

nebularain
2003-Jun-25, 02:16 PM
Probably this way. . .

10. 10, 9 (if you don't count this one)

SeanF
2003-Jun-25, 02:18 PM
Probably this way. . .

10. 10, 9 (if you don't count this one)

Well, then, the answer's zero if you don't count any of them.

If the question is part of the quiz, you have to count it. If it's not part of the quiz, then the answers to it shouldn't count in the score, either! :)

girlgeek
2003-Jun-25, 02:21 PM
Congratulations, Grand Vizier!!! Way to go. Now that I understand more fully how this works, I'll have to remember to join in next time!!!

girlgeek

nebularain
2003-Jun-25, 02:25 PM
Probably this way. . .

10. 10, 9 (if you don't count this one)

Well, then, the answer's zero if you don't count any of them.

If the question is part of the quiz, you have to count it. If it's not part of the quiz, then the answers to it shouldn't count in the score, either! :)

The point is the 10th question is not an astronomy question - get it?

TriangleMan
2003-Jun-25, 02:34 PM
The point is the 10th question is not an astronomy question - get it?

But neither is question #3 :-? ?

SeanF
2003-Jun-25, 02:59 PM
The point is the 10th question is not an astronomy question - get it?

As T-Man pointed out, neither is the third. But at any rate, I see "How many questions..." not "How many astronomy questions..."

waynek
2003-Jun-25, 03:30 PM
Dang, get tied up at work for a day and it's all over. Still, a well deserved congrats to Grand Vizier as the winner, it's not like I didn't copy some of your answers as well in my update. :D At least I have the consolation prize of being on top in the majority of scorings (barely, 6 of 11 if I counted right). 8) I know I'm still fairly new to this forum, but you guys are a lot of fun and I look forward to continuing to contribute when I can.

kilopi
2003-Jun-25, 03:51 PM
Congrats, Vizier! How do you feel knowing that you think more like Kilopi than any of the rest of us do?
Worse, I gotta live with it.


I still don't see how he figures 9 is an acceptable answer to the last question, though.
Well, some people said 11. But the first person to answer, ToSeek, answered 9--ask him. I just used his answer. :)

ToSeek
2003-Jun-25, 03:54 PM
Well, some people said 11. But the first person to answer, ToSeek, answered 9--ask him. I just used his answer. :)

That's a poor excuse - if you'd used ALL my answers, I could have won straight off and saved you a lot of trouble. ;)

logicboy
2003-Jun-25, 04:01 PM
Goog Job GV 8) :D

SeanF
2003-Jun-25, 04:03 PM
I still don't see how he figures 9 is an acceptable answer to the last question, though.
Well, some people said 11. But the first person to answer, ToSeek, answered 9--ask him. I just used his answer. :)
I know, I was one of 'em who said 11. That's because there was a question in the preamble, which could be considered part of the quiz. :)

You just used ToSeek's answer. Man, that's just wrong.

kilopi
2003-Jun-25, 04:08 PM
if you'd used ALL my answers, I could have won straight off and saved you a lot of trouble.
I thought about that, but I couldn't figure out a way to justify the Lagrange points as geostationary (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=105231#105231).

You just used ToSeek's answer. Man, that's just wrong.
Exactly. :)

nebularain
2003-Jun-25, 04:32 PM
The point is the 10th question is not an astronomy question - get it?

But neither is question #3 :-? ?

Does not the Earth's magnetic pole have to do with a planet? Does not a planet have to do with astronomy?

Grand Vizier
2003-Jun-25, 05:15 PM
I still don't see how he figures 9 is an acceptable answer to the last question, though.
Well, some people said 11. But the first person to answer, ToSeek, answered 9--ask him. I just used his answer. :)
I know, I was one of 'em who said 11. That's because there was a question in the preamble, which could be considered part of the quiz. :)

You just used ToSeek's answer. Man, that's just wrong.

I was for 11 because of the preamble. But I got convinced that there was yet another way of looking at it, which was why the 50 answer - i.e that the quiz consisted of not just the first post, but all the posts in the quiz, up to and including the winning one. It made me feel a real obsessive trying to count them and worrying whether ? as a quiz placeholder was a real question or not. But in the end it had to be 9 because of the logic of the last replies - I hadn't thought of the reason for that one myself either.

Incidentally, it crossed my mind that you could do the quiz with three answers specified per post, though one is a bit of a fudge:

1. Uranus, Neptune, [Saturn]

(Richfield suggested this one - according to some earlier geocentric cosmogonies, the Sun could be accounted a planet)

2. The Sun, Sirius, [Venus, Pistol Star, we don't know]

(As above - the ancients didn't make too big a linguistic distinction between planets and stars - a planet being a wandering star. We still refer to Venus as the morning star or evening star, and poetic usage often calls planets stars.

Or, of course, as ToSeek suggested, The Pistol Star (absolutely brightest known), or 'we don't know'.

3. Canada, Australia, [France, Antarctica]

Bit off the wall, but refers to France's unrecognised territorial claim in Antarctica. 'Antarctica', of course, as Triangleman contends, also works if one were to argue that all land masses must be part of come country or other. (Argument gets a bit dodgy when you get to places like The Falklands, which are a 'dependency')

4. 40,000km (rounded to nearest 10,000 km), 0km, [any height between the top of the atmosphere and 40,000 km, provided a space tether is used.]

Well, I like to think ahead :)

5. Yuri Gagarin, Adam, [Joseph Kittinger]

waynek's answer, which a lot of us found convincing. I'm not sure that Leonov couldn't be justified, too.

6. 61 known, 4 spheroids, [We don't know]

This one's a fudge - I can see that don't knows are not really acceptable.

7. December 21/22, April 6, [Jun 21, March 30, ...]

March 30 is BST in the UK but there's probably a mess of other dates for other countries.

8. Gene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt, Eugene Shoemaker

Heh. I was convinced I'd been dead clever with this one...

9. 27 earth days, 29.5 earth days, [1 lunar day, 0.92 lunar days]

0.92 lunar days is the sidereal period. A full lunar day is identical with the synodic period.

10. 9,10, [11]

or if you go with my zany idea - 50 or 60 or whatever the total count has got up to.

But I wonder how long it would have taken to get a winner with 3 answers per? :-|

kilopi
2003-Jun-26, 05:59 AM
But I wonder how long it would have taken to get a winner with 3 answers per?
That's why you need a Final Arbiter. :)

At a certain point, the Bricker challenge is a logic puzzle--you put my responses together with others posts and try to figure out the "right" answer. That's why I went with two answers each question--to emphasize the arbitrariness of the whole affair. As you illustrate, it could have been more. More than last year, it makes it more obvious that there could be more than one answer to some questions. Again, I learned some things along the way.

Sometimes, the journey is more valuable than the destination.