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dayll
2007-Jun-24, 04:23 AM
Since I hold the minds in this forum in high regard I am curious to hear responses to these questions: 1) Will mankind survive to permeate the solar system, the galaxy, or even galaxies? 2) Should mankind's descendants eventually achieve individual eternal lifetimes (Tipler's theories aside.) - that is living as long as the universe itself exists would such incredible and powerful entities choose to cease to live eventually? dayll

Maksutov
2007-Jun-24, 04:37 AM
Since I hold the minds in this forum in high regard I am curious to hear responses to these questions: 1) Will mankind survive to permeate the solar system, the galaxy, or even galaxies?Only if mankind forsakes the things that have gotten humanity in trouble in the past and present:


superstition
out-of-control territoriality
out-of-control emotionalism
xenophobia
paranoia
closed-mindedness
jingoism
the inability to see beyond today and the end of one's nose. (among others)


2) Should mankind's descendants eventually achieve individual eternal lifetimes (Tipler's theories aside.) - that is living as long as the universe itself exists would such incredible and powerful entities choose to cease to live eventually? dayllSure. At least some would. I know/knew a number of folks whose motto could be summed up as "I'm bored."

Right now, based on current events, and despite my incurable optimism, things don't look very good future-wise for humanity.

Maha Vailo
2007-Jun-25, 02:54 PM
Only if mankind forsakes the things that have gotten humanity in trouble in the past and present:

superstition
out-of-control territoriality
out-of-control emotionalism
xenophobia
paranoia
closed-mindedness
jingoism
the inability to see beyond today and the end of one's nose.(among others)

So, how do we get rid of all these bad traits? Can we genetically engineer them out of our species, or do we have to do something else? What can I do to get rid of these traits within myself?

- Maha Vailo

farmerjumperdon
2007-Jun-25, 04:53 PM
So, how do we get rid of all these bad traits? Can we genetically engineer them out of our species, or do we have to do something else? What can I do to get rid of these traits within myself?

- Maha Vailo

One little word goes an amazingly long way to achieving such a utopian goal.

Honesty. Be completely honest with yourself, and then learn to extend that to others without being hurtful or sacrificing your own right to privacy.

The place to put the honesty to work is in questioning your beliefs. For everything you do, everything you say, everything you believe; ask yourself what is behind it, and will it increase or decrease the chances of your being able to meet your personal needs and live effectively. Then extend the concept and the conversation to humanity as a whole.

With time, practice, and discipline; I believe this approach can work to show even the most stubborn people that the kinds of behaviors in that list are basically destructive, inefficient, and incompatible with EVERYBODY'S basic human needs.

As far as genetics and engineering ineffective behaviors out of humans, I do not think it is possible. Too much of learning is generated by interaction with the environment (nuture) for fiddling with gene's (nature) to completely counteract. Due to the 3-way interplay between genes, the brain, and the environment; I don't think tweaking genes can be used to control behavior to the extent necessary to rid the world of all the stuff on that list.

I'd have to think on it a while, but I'm not sure it would even be good. I see the 3 players in determining behavior as kind of a checks and balances system. By not giving any one of the 3 absolute control, or even the possibility of absolute control, natural selection has protected us against all kinds of extremisms. (Including mad scientists).

Yup, learning to live in peace will have to be learned the way that things are learned best - the slow hard way. I am an optimist, and I guess my response to the OP is that I think we will get there, but like everything else of any degree of complexity; there will be fits and starts and bumps in the road. The important thing is to keep it moving forward.

Larry Jacks
2007-Jun-25, 06:43 PM
Will mankind survive to permeate the solar system, the galaxy, or even galaxies?

Cosmic impactors aside, I'm getting kind of pessimistic about humanity (probably because I'm getting older). I'm seeing narcissism and nihilism spreading so widely in society that even if we survive, we may no longer have the will to take risks. There's also the self-destructive tendency to navel gaze and demand that everything must be about "me" (the collective me). IMO, too many people vote on the basis of who will offer them the most "free" stuff instead of what's best for society as a whole.

Back in 1980, Jerry Pournelle wrote a book (more like a collection of articles) titled, "A Step Further Out (http://www.amazon.com/Step-Further-Out-Jerry-Pournelle/dp/B000GRMI7K/ref=sr_1_1/002-0215716-5477675?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182796625&sr=8-1)." At the time, he postulated that there may be a window of opportunity for humanity to explore space. His contention was that the potential for materials and energy shortages (and IIRC, political will) would make it difficult if not impossible to expand outward from Earth where an abundance of resources are available. While I read the book many years ago (over 20) and my memory of the details may be wrong, I'm beginning to share some of Pournelle's concern.

Maha Vailo
2007-Jun-25, 08:55 PM
One little word goes an amazingly long way to achieving such a utopian goal.

Honesty. Be completely honest with yourself, and then learn to extend that to others without being hurtful or sacrificing your own right to privacy.

The place to put the honesty to work is in questioning your beliefs. For everything you do, everything you say, everything you believe; ask yourself what is behind it, and will it increase or decrease the chances of your being able to meet your personal needs and live effectively. Then extend the concept and the conversation to humanity as a whole.

With time, practice, and discipline; I believe this approach can work to show even the most stubborn people that the kinds of behaviors in that list are basically destructive, inefficient, and incompatible with EVERYBODY'S basic human needs.

So, how do I put honesty to work in my daily lives? What is the exact process by which honesty would work towards bringing peace? Has any nation or ethnic group ever tried this before on a collective scale, and if so, has it worked? And finally, how do I teach honesty to others?

- Maha Vailo

Noclevername
2007-Jun-25, 08:57 PM
the future

The future, Conan? All the way to the year two thousand?

baric
2007-Jun-25, 09:10 PM
Since I hold the minds in this forum in high regard I am curious to hear responses to these questions: 1) Will mankind survive to permeate the solar system, the galaxy, or even galaxies?

No.


2) Should mankind's descendants eventually achieve individual eternal lifetimes (Tipler's theories aside.) - that is living as long as the universe itself exists would such incredible and powerful entities choose to cease to live eventually? dayll

Probably not, but it's hard to say what our descendants (if any) will be like. I'm guessing they would not be considered biological by us, and they would consider us to just be some primitive precursor to them.