PDA

View Full Version : Where Are The 1 Billion Universes?



Profpat
2007-Jul-02, 04:44 PM
Given the latest theory of only one particle out of a billion survived the big bang. Question; What happened to the energy from the annihilation of the 1 billion universes and anti-universes. Is that the same as the background radiation?

Profpat

antoniseb
2007-Jul-02, 05:09 PM
Is that the same as the background radiation?
I'm not sure I understand the build-up to your question.

loglo
2007-Jul-02, 06:15 PM
Is this about matter - antimatter inequality during BB nucleosynthesis, 1M+1 matter particles annihilating with 1M antimatter particles? There are lots of "latest" theories and they change often so one should be specific.

Profpat
2007-Jul-02, 07:59 PM
I'm appologize for my vague wording.
Yes Loglo the inequlity that you described is the one I was refering about.
Antoniseb, I was just wondering if all that energy that was created from the annihilation of the million or billion universes is still present in our universe.i.e.
background radiation, dark matter, dark energy, etc.

Thanks

Profpat

trinitree88
2007-Jul-02, 10:58 PM
Is this about matter - antimatter inequality during BB nucleosynthesis, 1M+1 matter particles annihilating with 1M antimatter particles? There are lots of "latest" theories and they change often so one should be specific.

loglo. As yet there is not a shred of physical evidence for the matter/antimatter inequality in the universe from any accelerator lab or cosmic ray experiment. An asymmetry observed in the production of B-mesons at the B-Factory does not constitute evidence for an asymmetry in protons/antiprotons or neutrons/antineutrons (baryons) which is what the universe is made out of, and no experiment has ever seen an asymmetry in leptons/antileptons to explain the presence of electrons only in the universe..(except for transient pair produced positrons)..nor does either scenario explain why the number of electrons just coincidently matches the number of protons to about one part in 1080, so that charge is conserved. None. Not one experiment. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nein. No. Non. Hundreds of experiments in dozens of labs and trillions of events. None.

Some problems keep getting swept under the rug. Like T.D.K. Lee , who was advised not to try and focus on fundamental truths, but do something practical in physics(by a Nobel laureate)....and then became one of the most insightful theorists by ignoring that advice, ......I'm going to keep looking under the rug. pete.

GOURDHEAD
2007-Jul-03, 02:48 AM
What happened to the energy from the annihilation of the 1 billion universes and anti-universes. I suggest that it is more accurate to speak of the mass equivalent of one billion times the mass of the universe we "know and love".

Glutomoto
2007-Jul-03, 05:32 AM
What happened to the energy from the annihilation of the 1 billion universes and anti-universes.


Is this about matter - antimatter inequality during BB nucleosynthesis, 1M+1 matter particles annihilating with 1M antimatter particles?


I was just wondering if all that energy that was created from the annihilation of the million or billion universes is still present in our universe


I don't know who is more confused right now me or Profpat.

The matter/anti-matter inequality is 'NOT' about the number of possible universes, is it ?

The matter/anti-matter inequality is a conjecture about why we don't find more anti-matter in the universe we know, right ?
When thinking about the big bang, it is not 1 particle = 1 universe; or is it ?


like I said at this point I am confused. help me help me.


:)

trinitree88
2007-Jul-03, 07:04 AM
I don't know who is more confused right now me or Profpat.

The matter/anti-matter inequality is 'NOT' about the number of possible universes, is it ?

The matter/anti-matter inequality is a conjecture about why we don't find more anti-matter in the universe we know, right ?
When thinking about the big bang, it is not 1 particle = 1 universe; or is it ?


like I said at this point I am confused. help me help me.


:)


Glutomoto. There's no confusion at the accelerator labs. This is the only universe we deal with, and there is no reason known why it should exist......and they thought the Indians ate funny mushrooms and smoked peyote too much...:shifty: pete.

phunk
2007-Jul-03, 05:57 PM
I don't know who is more confused right now me or Profpat.

The matter/anti-matter inequality is 'NOT' about the number of possible universes, is it ?

The matter/anti-matter inequality is a conjecture about why we don't find more anti-matter in the universe we know, right ?
When thinking about the big bang, it is not 1 particle = 1 universe; or is it ?


like I said at this point I am confused. help me help me.


:)

I believe he was using 'universe' as a unit of mass equal to the mass of the current known universe.

loglo
2007-Jul-03, 06:04 PM
I think the question just needs a bit of tightening up. If a million times the amount of antimatter and matter that exists today annihilated in the early universe where did the energy go? What form would we see it in today? (Operative word being if Trinitree :D )

You know, I've read the matter - antimatter asymmetry story many times but I've never asked that question. Good one Profpat, though for clarity, there is only 1 universe in our universe kind of by definition. :)

Cougar
2007-Jul-03, 06:57 PM
If a million times the amount of antimatter and matter that exists today annihilated in the early universe where did the energy go? What form would we see it in today?
Photons.



The relative abundances of the nuclides of hydrogen, deuterium, helium-3 and helium-4, and lithium-6 and lithium-7 are controlled by the relative ratios of protons, neutrons and photons at the time of nucleosynthesis. The ratio of baryons (protons and neutrons) to photons at this time means a higher fraction of helium (and deuterium and lithium) in the Universe today. More neutrons relative to protons changes the relative abundances of helium-3 versus helium-4, and deuterium and lithium-7. Using the observed abundances today (though finding a cloud of gas that hasn't been contaminated by supernovae ejecta is difficult) can pinpoint the time of nucleosynthesis. For example, the fact that the mass fraction of helium-4 is around 24% is an important clue. -- Source (http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~smyers/courses/astro12/L26.html)

Twinsun
2007-Jul-03, 07:08 PM
my opinion : no BIg Bang :) only big love ;)

Glutomoto
2007-Jul-04, 12:15 AM
and they thought the Indians ate funny mushrooms

would a toadstool by any other name smell as toady ?

http://i12.tinypic.com/62i4qjr.jpg



my opinion : no BIg Bang :) only big love ;)

:D cute.


So if there were a bunch of parallel universes, would they be come into existence all at the same time, or some now and then say every day after lunch ?


:)

Twinsun
2007-Jul-04, 05:47 AM
well I'll presume for a second that there are multi-universes ... hmm the first question that comes into my mind is : where do they all fit ... after all we know ours in infinite ... so therefore we are faced with another thing : parallel infinites if I can say so ... and well for me that's not a true sentence even if mathematics 'can' explain it ... I mean let's assume every integer number represents a universe .... we have 1,2,3,4,........,k,k+1,.........,n,....... etc. and each of those numbers expands to the infinite without ever 'touching' its neighbor ... I mean we have 1,0123123834924972834582738472837482734823748, we have 1,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999, and so on so there's no actual limit ..... every number is an infinite on its own :) the same goes for universes if you want to ... BUT as I said that's false as far as I'm concerned

Profpat
2007-Jul-04, 01:12 PM
Twinsun, are you sure about the universe being infinite? I thought the jury was still out on that one. I know WMAP showed it was boundless, but that in of itself doesn't mean it's infinite. Philosopically I have a difficult time imaging any REAL THING as infinite. I leave infinity for such conceptual items as numbers. points. curves, etc. I do hope however that your Big Love is infinite.

Twinsun
2007-Jul-04, 06:07 PM
hehe :) well I kinda know your problem ... even for me it's a little akward to assume that something that I can touch is in fact infinite ... but anyway, in mathematics, infinity is NOT an option ... those are only theoretical as whenever some paradox occurs, we try to solve it by assuming it GOES to the infinite ... so I guess that's the same model based upon the Universe concept ... we cannot imagine it is infinite, thus it TENDS to expand in to infinity :)

Profpat
2007-Jul-04, 07:10 PM
Good answer Twinsun, thank you.

Twinsun
2007-Jul-04, 07:45 PM
welcome ;)

trinitree88
2007-Jul-04, 08:11 PM
[QUOTE=Glutomoto;1023093]would a toadstool by any other name smell as toady ?

http://i12.tinypic.com/62i4qjr.jpg




Glutomoto. What's in a name? That which we call a toadstool would smell as sweet by any other....:shifty: Pete.

neilzero
2007-Jul-06, 11:42 PM
There may be other universes, but we have no evidence that we share anything with any of the other universes, if there are any more.
Photons are produced when protons annihilate anti-protons. When anti-helium 4 annihilates deuterium we likely get some sub-atomic particles plus photons. If only one part per million of the original mass remains, there should be a lot of photons and a lot of sub-atomic particles still moving in inter-steller space, as collision and absorbtion occur rarely. It is possible that there is an equal amount of anti-matter somewhere, far, far away. Anti -matter seems to be rare within a few billion light years of our solar system.
Background radiation is photons at microwave frequency and wavelegth so I suppose most of the photons from annihilation are now background radiation. Neil

Profpat
2007-Jul-07, 09:39 PM
Thank you Neil and everybody for your responses. If anyone finds those universes, if that is a correct theory, please let me know.

Thank you,

Profpat