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bishadi
2007-Jul-17, 03:55 PM
How far will this group go to establish or sort through a new framework or TOE?

If someone said that the property of electromagnetic radiation (EMR), entanglement is in fact that gravity between mass?

And then followed up to say that van der waals/Casimir were a specific methods of measuring this, how much depth could this gang work through?

I would enjoy putting a few seeds into the minds of folk all over the world to get the ball rolling.

From how base lipids associate to form phospholipid bilayers, to the structures within glial that retain memories, through to that Big Bang (per se), can be described along with a few generations worth of material in between, each has been visited already which suggests that many areas of physics, biology and the scope of the sciences, may have a boost.

Are there enough hungry minds here to work through the material?

Has anyone ever wondered when One single framework will be able to combine the cosmology once and for all?

Ideas, free for the taking.

Ask the questions and this closet case will simply offer food for thought.

All I care about is that ‘life’ in a physical description can be written for the future generations to comprehend; so we can leave them, Understanding!

antoniseb
2007-Jul-17, 04:01 PM
Welcome to the BAUT forum Bishadi. I renamed your thread to be less ambiguous about what you were asking.

bishadi
2007-Jul-17, 04:07 PM
Would you not agree, that to comprehend is basically the ability to understand?

Do others need help with understanding? I know it is my quest.

The think tank is simply a metaphor to how people 'think' answers are derived, when the fact is people do it.

Please offer the title created and if you wish to tap into my posts please ask.

It is almost insulting to have someone proof without being asked.

antoniseb
2007-Jul-17, 04:11 PM
To be honest, the title "Help With Understanding." was insulting and ambiguous. The message implies that you are qualified to help everyone else here to understand.

01101001
2007-Jul-17, 04:26 PM
This doesn't look like Q&A.

I see question marks, but they appear to mark rhetorical sentences.

bishadi
2007-Jul-17, 04:42 PM
To be honest, the title "Help With Understanding." was insulting and ambiguous. The message implies that you are qualified to help everyone else here to understand.


That ambiguity is what offers each a piece of self analysis to the questions included.

It appears I hit a soft spot with the ability to change what imposes on your opinion.

Each is sort of a king of their domain but what is sad is when the impositions are selfishly assessed rather than universally equal.

If the dialogue is offensive; wield the sword.

if unknown; reap the opportunity.

if truth; live to the standard and share the beauty.

Or let’s allow Socrates the words;

“To live in accordance with the essence of things, is the premise of the moral life. One cannot live in peace of mind without at the same time being in harmony with reality.”

OR

“The premises of a moral life is based on a covenant with reality.”

Or

How about Plato

http://www.ancientgreece.co.uk/knowledge/story/sto_set.html

Cougar
2007-Jul-17, 04:51 PM
If someone said that the property of electromagnetic radiation (EMR), entanglement is in fact that gravity between mass?
This is not a complete sentence and therefore is not a comprehensible question.

Most people here are indeed interested in "understanding" in general. "Seeds" that sprout knowledge are certainly welcome, but this is not a naive group. We must first determine if the seeds you speak of will not just pollute our garden with... weeds. :doh:

bishadi
2007-Jul-17, 04:55 PM
This is not a complete sentence and therefore is not a comprehensible question.

Most people here are indeed interested in "understanding" in general. "Seeds" that sprout knowledge are certainly welcome, but this is not a naive group. We must first determine if the seeds you speak of will not just pollute our garden with... weeds. :doh:


But the weed since non-offensive, often is simply a sprouting flower. So to pull it may eliminate the ability to experience the beauty.

phunk
2007-Jul-17, 05:37 PM
Beauty and truth are not the same thing. An artist can paint a picture of a beautiful world that can't exist within the physics of this universe. Likewise, you can plant 'seeds' that are based on false premises, and they will lead those who don't know better away from the truth, rather than towards it.

01101001
2007-Jul-17, 05:58 PM
But the weed since non-offensive, often is simply a sprouting flower. So to pull it may eliminate the ability to experience the beauty.

"Got a space/astronomy question? Get it answered here."

bishadi
2007-Jul-17, 06:23 PM
Beauty and truth are not the same thing. An artist can paint a picture of a beautiful world that can't exist within the physics of this universe. Likewise, you can plant 'seeds' that are based on false premises, and they will lead those who don't know better away from the truth, rather than towards it.

Gravity; could it be that force described by van der waal/casimir?

And then would it not be directly a property of energy itself which instead of a 'potential' an existance of a specific quantity based on the wavelength, hence plank's constant?

But then the premise of time between specimens must be accounted for, hence the change in transformations observed by the described lamb shift?

This returns back to the fixed constant 'c' derived from planck's constant (einstein) has a missing element to the associating system that can be described as an amplitude, maintaining to the frequency, which is where the total energy to the system needs a patch.

Feynman and Schwinger resorted to the assumptions that a linear wave framework combined these maintaining the entropic direction when if the medium is time itself, then the assumptions, are replaced by existing paradigms, focusing the comprehensive scope into one base set of rules.

SO in order to confront these questions in a scientific fashion then to assess the order of application please observe the actual data and experiments versus simply allowing the summations of opinion by media publication.

In other words, these questions will best be observed by involving theorem versus simply opinions without the application.

bishadi
2007-Jul-18, 02:32 PM
Any help available on this fine day?

I assume the evolution of Understanding, needs a quality environment to continue and evolve.

Jerry
2007-Jul-18, 05:28 PM
To be honest, the title "Help With Understanding." was insulting and ambiguous. The message implies that you are qualified to help everyone else here to understand.

Not in the context of a reasonable translation of many using English as a second language. The phrase should obviously be interpreted: "Help me understand something"; and in the broader context of the post; 'let us work together to try to understand the universe by exploring the possibility that gravity is a poorly understood attribute of normal electromagnetic forces.'

Likewise, the 'Beauty' should possibly be intepreted as an application of Occum's razor: The 'simpliest solution is the best.'

That said, this is clearly an ATM topic line, and not welcome on this BB for more than 30 days. (I still find it ironic that a grand unifying concept like this must have a turkey timer on it: If you cannot find the holy grail of science in thirty days, the subject is closed.)

But I like the Idea of a think tank, with rules that would (somehow) kwash personal agendas while discussing and perhaps advancing what are now ATM Concepts.

neilzero
2007-Jul-18, 07:30 PM
I'm with Bishadi: I have some idea what a cosmic think tank might be, but no idea about help with understanding. What do the letters TOE mean? "From how base lipids? associate to form phospholipid bilayers? to the structures within glial? that retain memories, through to that Big Bang" I added 3 question marks to the above quote. Neil

01101001
2007-Jul-18, 07:38 PM
What do the letters TOE mean?

Theory of Everything (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Everything)

bishadi
2007-Jul-18, 07:49 PM
Not in the context of a reasonable translation of many using English as a second language. The phrase should obviously be interpreted: "Help me understand something"; Understanding as a noun was the initial intent.

and in the broader context of the post; 'let us work together to try to understand the universe by exploring the possibility that gravity is a poorly understood attribute of normal electromagnetic forces.' As you like.

And?


Likewise, the 'Beauty' should possibly be intepreted as an application of Occum's razor: The 'simpliest solution is the best.' Nice KISS


That said, this is clearly an ATM topic line, Nope!


and not welcome on this BB for more than 30 days. Good! I do not appreciate fibbing either.


(I still find it ironic that a grand unifying concept like this must have a turkey timer on it: If you cannot find the holy grail of science in thirty days, the subject is closed.) So give me 30 days. That is fair.


But I like the Idea of a think tank, with rules that would (somehow) kwash personal agendas while discussing and perhaps advancing what are now ATM Concepts. Do you need cash? This return to the ATM must bother you.

I promise in a monetary or needs concept, I am rich and do not need anything, thank you.

If there is anyone you will ever come into contact that believes knowledge is a gift left by many who gave their time and care for to Understand, it be me.

Not for sale!

But I could tiggle your mind like no other and my only guise will be just honest truth about how it works.

Words often get in the way, so let’s stick to data and the contributions of many of the greats. It will be easier instead of doubting depth on my part.

Are we thinking? If so I like the idea of exploring at the direct points, like I started this thread with, still if you wish to dance, then play away.

What is being explored has never been published nor an assimilation to any single theory unless you go back to Bacon or some of the philosophical pursuits.

This is work I spent a lifetime to comprehend for the sole purpose of sharing so tomorrows kids will never have to go through what we all have.

If it doesn't work, then don't read it, but if it gives you ideas, then explor them. I always enjoy questions because maybe it is something I have not seen, so please have fun.



OK?

Noclevername
2007-Jul-18, 09:35 PM
Nope!

Good! I do not appreciate fibbing either.

So give me 30 days. That is fair.

Do you need cash? This return to the ATM must bother you.

I promise in a monetary or needs concept, I am rich and do not need anything, thank you.



ATM = Against The Mainstream, meaning ideas not currently accepted by the scientific community. ATM ideas must follow specific rules here on BAUT.

bishadi
2007-Jul-18, 11:34 PM
First the "Bad Astronomy and Universe Forum" (BAUD) implies as a title people who think.

Then the thread is about questions.

Is this a 'junior' site to somewhere else I should be communicating?

Is this even a question you could assist with?

It appears the rest are not qualifying to make a simple par unless I pray to something you do.

Please confirm.

bishadi
2007-Jul-18, 11:42 PM
After reading another attack.

The intent is not to create a negative with the mods.

For the few who recognize what is being presentedm just Google up the same name and read all you like.

Then one day you all can say,

"He was on our site."

Take care

01101001
2007-Jul-18, 11:56 PM
First the "Bad Astronomy and Universe Forum" (BAUD) implies as a title people who think.

Close. BAUT. Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum. From a merger of the forums from two sites: Universe Today and Bad Astronomy.

I'm not sure the title implies that the members think. I believe we mostly do, though. Mostly.


Then the thread is about questions.

The thread? This thread? What is about questions?

This subforum is called Questions and Answers, and it is the place for people to ask questions about astronomy and space science, in hopes of getting answers from the mainstream. I'm still not convinced this topic fits. I see some occasional, specific questions about astronomy and space, maybe too many, too scattered, for one thread, but they don't seem to be the main point -- but I can't figure out what the main point is.


Is this a 'junior' site to somewhere else I should be communicating?

That's your decision. There is no official senior site to BAUT where all the really good stuff happens. But, maybe if you look you will find a forum that fits your goals better.


Is this even a question you could assist with?

Ask a question about astronomy or space, please. One. Do it in another topic, because this one is pretty muddled.


It appears the rest are not qualifying to make a simple par unless I pray to something you do.

Simple par? Pray to something I do? I'm trying to understand.


Please confirm.

OK. I confirm I will never make par. I'm a terrible golfer. I pray to the god of golf to improve, but it doesn't help. But, that can't be what you mean.

What is this thread? What about the Cosmic Think Tank? Is it a question about astronomy, cosmology, suitable for this subforum? I don't understand. Are you tying to start some club? What?

01101001
2007-Jul-18, 11:58 PM
After reading another attack.

The intent is not to create a negative with the mods.

For the few who recognize what is being presentedm just Google up the same name and read all you like.

Then one day you all can say,

"He was on our site."

Take care


I'm lost.

hhEb09'1
2007-Jul-18, 11:58 PM
Beauty and truth are not the same thing. What's a Grecian Earn (http://history.enotes.com/famous-quotes/beauty-is-truth-truth-beauty-mthat-is-allye-know)? :)

Noclevername
2007-Jul-19, 01:25 AM
What's a Grecian Earn (http://history.enotes.com/famous-quotes/beauty-is-truth-truth-beauty-mthat-is-allye-know)? :)

How Long is a Chinese name? :lol:

bishadi
2007-Jul-19, 02:25 PM
What is this thread? What about the Cosmic Think Tank? Is it a question about astronomy, cosmology, suitable for this subforum? I don't understand. Are you tying to start some club? What?


What Cosmic Think Tank, I did not create that line, the Baud Mods did.

The only club I intend to create is the one that will be left when the war is over.

If you were to read the posts, recognize that what is being proposed is the basis to that final understanding, then you would see that withni this the sciences can finally be married.

Life will be described, and the kids of tomorrow will comprehend why and how they are alive.

Basically answering the questions that every person who ever walked has asked at one point or another.

Today's models are incorrect and within the material presented the answers present themselves.

But apparently this is the wrong venue. For example; an ATM here is like a Jew going to a LDS church for guidance.

Don't do it because the mainstream is all that is believed.

Like stepping on your religion.

Fine, not my concern. I enjoy knowing that one day, you can simply learn from your kids. Tomorrow and the gifts of knowledge are not for the complacent or to change their minds but for the kids of our future.

Did I ask for anything other than to spark minds?

What you have within these few posts are extremely important lines of comprehension and if you find the framework within, you could describe the whole game.

Have you ever wondered what questions you would ask that someone who has the ability to actually tell you the facts about how it all works?

No one can ever say I do not try, but the selfishness of people that clam up when presented with material they do not understand is pretty sad.

There is only one way the 4 corners of this globe will ever be united; knowledge and Understanding.

Guess who?

Let's just say, I am the one to raise the fathers to the flesh!

No magic, no phenomena; they do not exist.

Just similar to what my old uncle (Roger Bacon, 13th century) pointed out but now with today's available material, I just finished the project now it is time to share.

hhEb09'1
2007-Jul-19, 02:45 PM
I'm lost.I think they're inviting us to google for bishadi. When I did, this post (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=83153) to theologyweb came up. The second offering was...this BAUT thread.
Do you know why I hate chemistry?

Because they think ‘heat’ is definable just with joules. Heat is the infrared spectum of electromagnetic radiation and no where in all chemistry (but Einsein's photoelectric effect won him a nobel, how many years ago) has anyone ever figured out what wave lengths affect what molecule and how one molecule can cause a reaction (catalyst)… they just heat a dish and say “hey, if you put y and x together and heat it up you get xy…… what a joke.

That is old school but we need to be more practicle in knowing the actual occurance and quit being so complacent.

Michael Noonan
2007-Jul-19, 02:53 PM
Did I ask for anything other than to spark minds?

What you have within these few posts are extremely important lines of comprehension and if you find the framework within, you could describe the whole game.

Have you ever wondered what questions you would ask that someone who has the ability to actually tell you the facts about how it all works?



Very noble thought wanting to spark minds. The mainstream of science gets quite a few generous people here with ideas but must process everything a pace and within known parameters.

I have wondered about the question to ask one who has the ability to tell the facts and how it all works. By what means do you propose to educate others?

Kelfazin
2007-Jul-19, 03:57 PM
What Cosmic Think Tank, I did not create that line, the Baud Mods did.

The only club I intend to create is the one that will be left when the war is over.
The war in the middle east?


If you were to read the posts, recognize that what is being proposed is the basis to that final understanding, then you would see that withni this the sciences can finally be married.
I read the posts, I don't understand what you're getting at. What final understanding?


Life will be described, and the kids of tomorrow will comprehend why and how they are alive.

Basically answering the questions that every person who ever walked has asked at one point or another.
Which questions? Like "Where's the bathroom?" or "Have you seen my socks?"


Today's models are incorrect and within the material presented the answers present themselves.
Which models? All models?


But apparently this is the wrong venue. For example; an ATM here is like a Jew going to a LDS church for guidance.

Don't do it because the mainstream is all that is believed.

Like stepping on your religion.
That's not true, we'll believe anything no matter how outrageous, as long as there is evidence to back it up (can't remember whose sig line I saw this on)


Fine, not my concern. I enjoy knowing that one day, you can simply learn from your kids. Tomorrow and the gifts of knowledge are not for the complacent or to change their minds but for the kids of our future.
I think all generations have learned from their kids, not just ours.


Did I ask for anything other than to spark minds?
I have no idea what you have asked. I can't discerne any real questions from your posts.


What you have within these few posts are extremely important lines of comprehension and if you find the framework within, you could describe the whole game.
Could you write those lines out in a more, uh, comprehensible fashion?


Have you ever wondered what questions you would ask that someone who has the ability to actually tell you the facts about how it all works?
Yea, I have wondered. But are you trying to talk us into some religion? Who has the answer to life, the universe, and everything?


No one can ever say I do not try, but the selfishness of people that clam up when presented with material they do not understand is pretty sad.
I don't see anybody clamming up here, I see people trying to get you to speak in a manner we can understand. You're not making sense.


There is only one way the 4 corners of this globe will ever be united; knowledge and Understanding.

Guess who?
This is sounding more and more like a religious thing


Let's just say, I am the one to raise the fathers to the flesh!

No magic, no phenomena; they do not exist.

Just similar to what my old uncle (Roger Bacon, 13th century) pointed out but now with today's available material, I just finished the project now it is time to share. This sounds like either religion or somebody about to set off a nuclear bomb. Maybe I've seen too many movies.

01101001
2007-Jul-19, 04:44 PM
If you were to read the posts, recognize that what is being proposed is the basis to that final understanding, then you would see that withni this the sciences can finally be married.

I'd say this just doesn't belong in Q&A.

Here are your questions from your opening post,:



How far will this group go to establish or sort through a new framework or TOE?
If someone said that the property of electromagnetic radiation (EMR), entanglement is in fact that gravity between mass?
And then followed up to say that van der waals/Casimir were a specific methods of measuring this, how much depth could this gang work through?
Are there enough hungry minds here to work through the material?
Has anyone ever wondered when One single framework will be able to combine the cosmology once and for all?


Those are not questions about space or astronomy. They are questions about our behavior.

Can someone suggest where behavior questions would best be aswered? Astronomy? It seems most to be about forming a study group for cosmology.

Jim
2007-Jul-19, 05:53 PM
Bishadi, welcome to the BAUT. (Please note the spelling.) Be sure to check out this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/about-baut/39762-just-joining-us-please-read.html).

As you can tell, you have folks here pretty much confused as to the purpose of this thread. BAUT has several fora, each intended to handle different topics. For example,
Questions and Answers (Q&A) is intended for people to post questions about astronomy, cosmology, science in general. Other [people can then attempt to answer those questions. Threads should be limited in scope.
Against the Mainstream (ATM) is a place for people who have new ideas to present them for discussion. These new ideas are not currently covered by accepted scientific theories, or offer a new twist on an accepted theory. Threads should cover only one idea or one specific aspect of that idea.
Off Topic Babbling (OTB or BABBling) is where anything not appropriate to another forum can be broached and discussed. Threads can be about anything and can be very freewheeling.

There are more fora, but it seems to me that your thread belongs in one of those three. The problem is, I'm not sure which one.

If you have a specific, science-related question to ask, maybe a new thread in Q&A is best. If you want to present an ATM concept, you can start a thread there. If you want to discuss some sort of "think tank" maybe this should be moved to BABBling.

What are your thoughts?

Whatever we decide to do with this thread, I'd urge you to tone down the egoism. It comes across as arrogance and will not win you many friends or converts. (I once warned a poster that trying to compare his IQ with other BAUTers was unwise. "Unless you're trying for the sympathy vote.")

Oh, and if you have a better title for the thread, that can be fixed, too.

01101001
2007-Jul-19, 06:20 PM
Thanks, Jim.

This topic is in dire need of focus. I implore you, bishadi, to get to a point. A single point.

Maybe one question.

Maybe one request for an action you'd want us to do.

What do you want? What is the purpose of this thread? One sentence.

No more rambling, please.

Jim
2007-Jul-19, 10:39 PM
Since bishadi has decided to take a few days off, I'm closing this thread.