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JimO
2003-Jun-30, 06:19 PM
I searched on this title and got no hits,
but I presume the site is known to y'all.
IF NOT .... :-?
Here's the moon hoax section of it: http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0003.htm

Glom
2003-Jun-30, 06:35 PM
BoP seems to escape them.

ktesibios
2003-Jun-30, 08:11 PM
BoP seems to escape them.

So do quite a few other things.

Especially charming is the way the site author rounds up the usual suspects- off-center fiducials, diverging shadows, objects in shadow still being visible, deadly radiation, micrometeoroids,lack of a blast crater under the LM, lack of visible exhaust from the LM ascent engine, the "C" rock (!), stars in the pictures, "the Russians would have done it first"...

All things which have been examined and refuted umpteen times here, and on other easily accessible Web sites...

And describes each as "as yet unansered (sic)".

As far as BoP, and the notion that NASA, as a government agency, is somehow obligated to disprove HB allegations and that the lack of such official rebuttal is relevant to the hoax claims, I'd just like to offer this:

The Preamble to the United States Constitution lays out the purposes the Founders hoped to serve by organizing the government whose specifications are given in the rest of the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

Somehow, "expend the common Resources to Oblige any random Lunatic with a bizarre Claim and a Demand to be proven Wrong" seems to have been left out.

Oh, what a pity. :evil:

Tomblvd
2003-Jun-30, 09:28 PM
I searched on this title and got no hits,
but I presume the site is known to y'all.
IF NOT .... :-?
Here's the moon hoax section of it: http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0003.htm

Well, I've never seen it, and I thought I've seen them all.

This rivals cosmic dave or NASCAM for sheer idiocy. My favorite:

32. Camera Tracking Trick

CLAIM: With more than a two second signal transmission round trip, how did a camera on the moon pan upward to track the departure of the Apollo 16 LEM?

AS YET UNANSERED



They must not be looking very hard.

Andrew
2003-Jun-30, 10:17 PM
What's BoP?

If they'd bothered to check the BABB archives whilst researching their article, nearly all of their "unanswered" questions would have been answered.

Geo3gh
2003-Jun-30, 10:37 PM
BoP = Burden of Proof

It puzzled me a few minutes as well.

frenat
2003-Jul-01, 01:35 AM
He asks on his main page for answers to be sent to him. From what I can see, everything should be able to be answered. I don't have the expertise to do it but perhaps some other on here could?

Geo3gh
2003-Jul-01, 01:42 AM
He asks on his main page for answers to be sent to him. From what I can see, everything should be able to be answered. I don't have the expertise to do it but perhaps some other on here could?

I've been thinking of pointing him to specific pages on Clavius, but I'm arguing with myself if it would do any good. I think I should fight the good fight, but on the other hand, seeing how much good sending answers has done in other cases, I just don't know if I have the energy to send email into a black hole of a site.

But I shouldn't prejudge.

Back and forth I go on this.

Anyhow, I think that anyone wanting to take up the challenge would save time just sending him links to specific Clavius and BA pages.

JayUtah
2003-Jul-01, 05:05 AM
I sent him a fairly complete reply this afternoon. Just now I got a message back thanking me with gusto. He seems genuine. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

freddo
2003-Jul-01, 06:55 AM
I sent him a fairly complete reply this afternoon. Just now I got a message back thanking me with gusto. He seems genuine. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Agreed. His format is certainly against the mould of typical conspiracist sites... It:

- is easy to read, with a clear structure.
- cites pro-apollo evidence, and not just to dismiss it out of hand.
- is not so presumptuous as to draw conclusions.
- is not so arrogant as to claim those that do not agree with the author are stupid.
- shows evidence of revision as more facts are brought to light (to the author).

While I will not defend his knowledge of the topic, as it is clear that many of his questions spring from either ignorance (lack of research), or a fairly narrow exposure to evidence (high WooWoo to debunker ratio), I do see a willingness to find the truth, and accept it when they find it.

If only all HB'ers were as promising...

Humphrey
2003-Jul-01, 06:59 AM
If only all HB'ers were as promising...

They are out there. It is just that the ones that can be converted don't run websites or go on t.v. spouting their views. They just sit at home wondering if it is true or not.

Musashi
2003-Jul-01, 07:45 AM
From the Xenophilia site:


http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0019.htm


[crop circles] have appeared on every continent

Every continent? Really? Even Antarctica?

ktesibios
2003-Jul-01, 08:02 AM
I sent him a fairly complete reply this afternoon. Just now I got a message back thanking me with gusto. He seems genuine. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Well, he's asking questions and at least reserving judgement instead of banging the reader on the head with unalterable conclusions.

After revisiting clavius I see that my first impression- that virtually everything in the "as yet unansered" list has been examined either there or on BA- is pretty close to the mark.

Since the author seems to have missed out on quite a bit of material, it's darned nice of you to help him out.

That's a band site. If you correspond further with him, ask him what he plays. (I'm betting guitar, but's that's probably just my sound man/recording engineer prejudices talking). :wink:

Byrd
2003-Jul-01, 05:41 PM
From the Xenophilia site:

http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0019.htm

[crop circles] have appeared on every continent
Every continent? Really? Even Antarctica?


Blame that on the Disinformation out there. I don't recall seeing news about any in Africa, and apparently none have been reported in China: http://www.crystalinks.com/croptheories.html

Jason Thompson
2003-Jul-02, 04:42 PM
I sent a reply to the chap myself the other day, and he replied thanking me too. I wouldn't be too surprised if he has a standard response set up. Still, at least he does respond reasonably.

I wouldn't write him off either. Check out his page on rods, where he is reasonable enough to look at the evidence and conclude that they are just photographic distortions of fast moving insects across the image (although this is so incredibly obvious that had he drawn any other conclusion I would have written him off!). Also, the contents of some of his other pages do indicate that he is at least discussing the things rationally, and is not trying to convince anyone of anything.

JayUtah
2003-Jul-02, 07:29 PM
I sent a reply to the chap myself the other day, and he replied thanking me too. I wouldn't be too surprised if he has a standard response set up. Still, at least he does respond reasonably.

He did say he was very busy, which may motivate a standard response. I have a standard response to people who point out minor errors in my site.

I wrote a fairly long response and he did thank me specifically for being thorough. He seemed pretty impressed. Time will tell, but from where I sit now he doesn't seem especially dedicated to the hoax theory.

Check out his page on rods, where he is reasonable enough to look at the evidence and conclude that they are just photographic distortions of fast moving insects across the image ...

I tried to take pictures of the Luxor hotel in Las Vegas. It was almost impossible to get a night shot that didn't have some dumb bird flying through the vertical light beam.

Musashi
2003-Jul-03, 01:00 AM
I got a reply too. Same stuff about being busy but he also mentioned getting letters from a few other people. Seems nice enough so far. :D