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KarinSue
2007-Aug-07, 10:32 AM
This has been driving me buggy lately. I know that I once had our address in the universe written in my address book, but it's gone now. It went something like this: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Arm of Orion Super Cluster... or something like that. Maybe it's even changed since then, as I read we may be in another galaxy. Anyone have a better idea than I of our address? Thanks :-)

astromark
2007-Aug-07, 11:08 AM
You are on the right track with your address idea but, Who is it for?
I do not know of anyone who would find a use for this address. They all live here now.
This galaxy we are part of has been tearing other smaller galaxies to shreds for billions of years and yes it is possible that this local group of stars has been captured by the milky way. Its also possible that many of the clusters of stars we see were part of or the core of smaller galaxies. None of this changes any thing or is excepted as fact as yet.
Your question is more a perspective challenge. If it helps you understand the immensity of this galaxy and the relative size of whole universe, then great.:)..
Think of a GPS device. Your location stated in longitude and latitude on the surface of Planet Earth being the third planet of the system orbiting Sol. and so on ......
Consider the probability of some 'other' knowing where or what is kind of very remote.
WELCOME to the forum KarinSue.(C)

grant hutchison
2007-Aug-07, 11:09 AM
That probably went something like Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Local Supercluster ...

Grant Hutchison

01101001
2007-Aug-07, 01:47 PM
Consider the probability of some 'other' knowing where or what is kind of very remote.

Yeah, but this is the Internet, digital content, and it gets archived, for all we know, for all time. Why not? It's cheap and semi-valuable. So who knows what the future may hold? I wouldn't rule out the value of providing a detailed address. It's not something I'd do, but some others might be more considerate of the feelings of researchers halfway across the known universe.

All your electronic missives may be messages in bottles.

(Hi, folks, if you're reading this a few billion years later! Greetings from a being alive about 4.3 x 1017 seconds after the start of it all.)

Gillianren
2007-Aug-07, 03:02 PM
There's a version of it in Our Town, actually, though I don't feel like going digging for my copy just now.

SeanF
2007-Aug-07, 03:49 PM
There's a version of it in Our Town, actually, though I don't feel like going digging for my copy just now.
Somebody's got a variation of it in their signature! I just saw it in a post this morning, but I don't remember who it was...

The final detail of the signature version is "the universe in which Spock is clean-shaven." :)

EDIT: Found it. It's tdvance.

His signature gives his location as "Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven."

Gillianren
2007-Aug-08, 03:01 PM
"Clean-shaven" takes a hyphen. I do so prefer it when signatures, at least, are properly spelled and punctuated!

There can be as much or as little detail as you like. After all, the question of who's supposed to be finding us with that address is a good one. Doctor Who?

grant hutchison
2007-Aug-08, 03:34 PM
"Clean-shaven" takes a hyphen.Not according to some house styles and sub-editors I've encountered over the years. :)
I pointed out to one such sub-editor that the absence of the customary hyphen would, for instance, make the phrase "he fell down a well-concealed hole" rather harder to understand on first reading. He said that wasn't his problem. It does make you wonder what his job description actually looked like, if textual clarity wasn't in there.

Grant Hutchison

Gillianren
2007-Aug-08, 05:54 PM
Welcome to "why Gillian doesn't like AP style." It's not created for clarity; it's created for consistency and ease on the printers.

astromark
2007-Aug-08, 07:25 PM
And then came text language...

Y R U consnd bot the hyphen? Wn dis is hppn...

Gentleman, lighten up.

grant hutchison
2007-Aug-08, 07:50 PM
Welcome to "why Gillian doesn't like AP style."Did it originate with Associated Press? Or are they just exponents of the style?

Grant Hutchison

tdvance
2007-Aug-08, 07:54 PM
"Clean-shaven" takes a hyphen. I do so prefer it when signatures, at least, are properly spelled and punctuated!

There can be as much or as little detail as you like. After all, the question of who's supposed to be finding us with that address is a good one. Doctor Who?

Actually, you're wrong. Predicate adjectives are not hyphenated.

Todd

mugaliens
2007-Aug-08, 08:43 PM
This has been driving me buggy lately. I know that I once had our address in the universe written in my address book, but it's gone now. It went something like this: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Arm of Orion Super Cluster... or something like that. Maybe it's even changed since then, as I read we may be in another galaxy. Anyone have a better idea than I of our address? Thanks :-)

Well, everything down to the country level ought to be the exact same thing as everyone else on the planet...

???

Gillianren
2007-Aug-09, 06:17 AM
Actually, you're wrong. Predicate adjectives are not hyphenated.

It's an adjectival phrase. Adjectival phrases are (usually) hyphenated.

astromark
2007-Aug-09, 07:29 AM
Wow... this off topic trek is as good as they get.

Having decided that we all know our address and any aliens will have their own idea of where we are at. I see no harm in this discussion.
Remembering that language is a tool. As such all that is actually important is that your thoughts are able to be understood by those who wish to. The use of the - or not between words is unimportant. un-important... It does not change the meaning of what was said. What was or might have been correct is not set in concrete. Languages are living things, they change as the user dictates. To enforce my point pick up a William Shakespeare book. Did they talk like that. Yes they did. We do not.

grant hutchison
2007-Aug-09, 11:20 AM
It's an adjectival phrase. Adjectival phrases are (usually) hyphenated.A lot of modern usage guides do contrast adjectival phrases used before and after the noun, just as tdvance says, with hyphenation very much required before the noun but much less so after it: "an out-of-date guide" contrasting with "the guide is out of date", for instance. This American Heritage usage page (http://209.10.134.179/64/84.html) is fairly typical, I think.
I'd agree with you on the hyphen for "Spock is clean-shaven", though, on the grounds of reading ease, if nothing else. Without the hyphen one tends to parse "Spock is clean" before lurching up against "shaven" and having to reassess.

Grant Hutchison

Gillianren
2007-Aug-09, 03:12 PM
After the noun, "out of date" becomes not an adjectival phrase but a prepositional phrase ("out" being a preposition) and does not take hyphenation for that reason. It's the verb what does it--"is" out of date, after all.

As to AP style, as the title suggests, it's the official style of the Associated Press. To be found in their official style guide and used in many a paper, including the Cooper Point Journal, the paper I worked on in college, it is a mishmash of grammatical rules, mostly correct ones, but forbidding the so-called Oxford comma if the list is three items yet requiring it if the list is longer. There are several other things that I objected to only to be told, "It's AP style." Then again, even AP style is better than text speak, right?

John Mendenhall
2007-Aug-09, 04:35 PM
There's an old SF story about someone mailing a letter to Mars, and it gets delivered, and replied to. The Post Office's explanation is something like "Well, we do belong to the Intergalactic Postal Union. We just put the off-planet stuff in their bag, and they come and pick it up."

grant hutchison
2007-Aug-11, 04:18 PM
After the noun, "out of date" becomes not an adjectival phrase but a prepositional phrase ("out" being a preposition) and does not take hyphenation for that reason.That's a contrast that doesn't seem to feature in the advice given by style books like Hart's and the American Heritage page I linked to.
While they often make much of classifying the grammatical components of the phrase itself, the primary dichotomy is just position before or after the noun, and it looks to be driven by reading ease coupled with a Churchillian desire to minimize the number of hyphens on the page.

Grant Hutchison

antoniseb
2007-Aug-11, 04:58 PM
This has been driving me buggy lately. I know that I once had our address in the universe written in my address book, but it's gone now. It went something like this: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Arm of Orion Super Cluster... or something like that. Maybe it's even changed since then, as I read we may be in another galaxy. Anyone have a better idea than I of our address? Thanks :-)

I think that if you were trying to give our address to a very distant friend, our nomenclature for the name of our solar system, and our galaxy would be a little unfathomable. I also think that whatever you write down about the larger scale parts of the address, it may well change as more observations lead to a better picture of the structure of the universe.