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dirty_g
2007-Aug-07, 10:18 PM
Hi all,

Just wondered. In some Mayan circles they seem to beleive that the Sun will align with Galactic centre. By the way I dont beleive it and the point of this thread is not to have an argument about that.

What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the centre? It's impossible to know isnt it? We don't know exactly where we are in the Galaxy. I heard heard some poeple argue that it won't be in alignment to it and it would be on a different date. I just want to know how on Earth we would know? It's impossible isnt it? May I reitierate I want to know how we would know we are in alignment. I want nothing to do with 2012 end of world woo woo rubbish. Cheers :lol:

01101001
2007-Aug-07, 10:50 PM
It's been a remarkably long time since the last 2012 inquiry. Your answer may be among the below (probably, but maybe not; the purpose of this article is mostly list maintenance):

How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63109)
Any truth to this? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58039)
2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=56513)
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55386)Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55312)
Galactic Tsunami? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54418)
So what will we see in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54404)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53788)
Pole shift idea origins (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=43775)
2003 no, 2012 si (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=3179)
2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=3181)
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=7145)
2012 alignment question (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=9421)
about the Mayan 2012 item (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10214)
2012 Debunking? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10724)
Possible asteroid impact in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10924)
2012 asteroid? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=13592)
We don't have to worry about 2012! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16490)
More on 2012 from India Daily (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16709)
2012 Completion of conspiracy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=17667)
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18322)
crop circles, Planet X and 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18375)
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18378)
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18757)
More 2012 Nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=19201)
NEO 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20191)
Dangerous NEO in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20539)
Christmas 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=23941)
2012 mayan calender end of world (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=30892)
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=31452)
New 2012 threat? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32413)
2012 look at this thing on the sun (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35462)
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=38978)
Dec 20 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46117)
2012 Stuff (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=51021)
Date: December 21st 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53831)
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53904)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)

George
2007-Aug-07, 10:50 PM
Perhaps this site (http://www.aztlan.net/rumblings_center_galaxy.htm)will help explain one possible view of the alignment. It is easily verifiable and I will do it since the fate of all physics is at stake, according the them, but right now an even more pressing matter is at hand: grilling hot dogs.

[Oops, I wish I would have seen the prior post before posting.]

01101001
2007-Aug-07, 10:59 PM
[Oops, I wish I would have seen the prior post before posting.]

No, that's nice. Maybe he won't have to search so much.

I think the OP question needs some refinement, for the Sun (or Sun's center) and the Galactic Center, being two points, are always aligned. The question needs an enhanced definition of "alignment" before it gets interesting.

TrAI
2007-Aug-07, 11:07 PM
Hi all,

Just wondered. In some Mayan circles they seem to beleive that the Sun will align with Galactic centre. By the way I dont beleive it and the point of this thread is not to have an argument about that.

What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the centre? It's impossible to know isnt it? We don't know exactly where we are in the Galaxy. I heard heard some poeple argue that it won't be in alignment to it and it would be on a different date. I just want to know how on Earth we would know? It's impossible isnt it? May I reitierate I want to know how we would know we are in alignment. I want nothing to do with 2012 end of world woo woo rubbish. Cheers :lol:

Well, we know in what direction the center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_center) is, and we know what direction the sun is(of course), so knowing that we have an alignment would be as simple as observing that the sun is in front of the part of the sky where the center is located(or that the sun and the center is on opposite sides of the earth), and since we know the movements of the sun and the earth, I expect it would be possible to calculate when in 2012, if at all, such an alignment would happen, but sadly, I am not up to the maths...

I assume they mean that the earth is involved in the alignment, after all, any two objects will always be in line and so, you need a third object to make an alignment...

dirty_g
2007-Aug-07, 11:22 PM
It's been a remarkably long time since the last 2012 inquiry. Your answer may be among the below (probably, but maybe not; the purpose of this article is mostly list maintenance):

How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63109)
Any truth to this? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58039)
2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=56513)
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55386)Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55312)
Galactic Tsunami? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54418)
So what will we see in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54404)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53788)
Pole shift idea origins (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=43775)
2003 no, 2012 si (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=3179)
2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=3181)
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=7145)
2012 alignment question (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=9421)
about the Mayan 2012 item (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10214)
2012 Debunking? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10724)
Possible asteroid impact in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10924)
2012 asteroid? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=13592)
We don't have to worry about 2012! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16490)
More on 2012 from India Daily (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16709)
2012 Completion of conspiracy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=17667)
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18322)
crop circles, Planet X and 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18375)
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18378)
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18757)
More 2012 Nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=19201)
NEO 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20191)
Dangerous NEO in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20539)
Christmas 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=23941)
2012 mayan calender end of world (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=30892)
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=31452)
New 2012 threat? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32413)
2012 look at this thing on the sun (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35462)
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=38978)
Dec 20 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46117)
2012 Stuff (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=51021)
Date: December 21st 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53831)
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53904)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)
I alread said I don't beleive in it so you didnt need to post all that stuff you post for the newbies when they ask about 2012. Only link relevant there was the first one!

01101001
2007-Aug-07, 11:28 PM
I alread said I don't beleive in it so you didnt need to post all that stuff you post for the newbies when they ask about 2012. Only link relevant there was the first one!

Did you find your answer in there? It wasn't to convince you of anything. It was to provide you with discussions that had probably already answered the question you asked. Don't be offended.

(And, as I explained, it was also to carry on the list maintenance. This topic belongs in the list because I was sure it was going to generate more 2012 discussion and it did.)

grant hutchison
2007-Aug-07, 11:47 PM
What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the centre?We know pretty precisely where the centre of the galaxy is in the sky, because the central black hole is a radio source. We also have a galactic coordinate system in the sky, with zero longitude aligned with the galactic centre (though not precisely with the Sgr A* black hole).
It so happens that the sun passes through that part of the sky around December 21 every year. In 2012 it isn't aligned with either the galactic coordinate system or the black hole, but it's close to them. It's closer to them in other years.

Grant Hutchison

GOURDHEAD
2007-Aug-08, 02:41 AM
Isn't the sun always "aligned" with the center of the MW? Is your question: "when will a line connecting the center of the sun and the center of the Earth, when extended toward the MW center, actually pass through the MW center?"?

RalofTyr
2007-Aug-09, 06:14 AM
If it's Z. Reti 2, i'm getting a tin foil hat.

astromark
2007-Aug-09, 10:59 AM
So the question changes... we now want to know when a alignment of the Earth sun and our galactic center? No that is the original question, just said differently. The answer has been provided in respect that during December of each year the sun passes between us and the galactic core. I seem to recall that Sol and the Galactic plain do not actually align to well as progression has us some distance from the galactic plain at this time. I do not know the period of the Suns track above or below the galactic plain. I suspect we are talking of things in tens of thousands of years. Best I go look this up a...?:)

PrestonED
2008-Dec-08, 06:43 PM
More Fuel More Fire... :D 2012 is one thing happening one way or another thru the stars (awe)"look at it, it's big it's going to kill us" (the confusion) Perfect grammer,puncuation, desiveness, loaded sysmptons, button pushing belittlers causing da conflict in pub forms. Then on the sidelines of "white flags" haha. Other things coinside, like Nikola Telsa free energy rejection and retrospecting where we are now and going towards. but yeaa the point is wake up WORLD,this means you. if you read this far do something, stop searching. [comment removed] :D. ever play fall out 3? its awesome... Where is the imagination to think anymore these days. Atleast go out shooting

PrestonED
2008-Dec-08, 06:57 PM
More Fuel More Fire. Angular Moment that which all Things and ideas spin from. Geometric physics is perfect giving the right source of energy. E=MC sq.
Unimagiable but still lyrically sensed. We wubbled, yes? Spin a top, or levitron. Now, EMP happen in the cosmos or the universe or whatever. All types of enormious star of special dynamics and properties. We as man can trust one thing in this question, Fire. Most uncontrollable thing to ever tame. We watch it dim, we feed it, the sun will show us when, egypt did,we are here, sumers did, we are still here, maiyans incas, GREAT ADVANCE ANCIENT DEAD CIVILATIONS. who love the stars as much as we do. Who knew, if not as much, more than we know now. I say this cause they have more interst in SOL, than we do;even though we are sending a probe to it :D the point is make a graph of its yearly (or monthly) activities sence we've started monitoring the sun. Your answer could be there. lol, I don't know if there is an up or down sence to space. But I do know it's all energy and all energies flow in frequencies. Maybe, if I hum just right I'll turn into a beam of light and can fold space.

PrestonED
2008-Dec-08, 07:07 PM
this giant record player has it all from water to fire to fluffy weird **** and tons and tons and tons of? PREASSURE and polarity and gravitational extremes, wow! I am kinda happy we are like a spec to this CD of destruction, it will be like a drunk driving accident someone dies and its never the driver. So, relax and enjoy the ride. It will be satan,right? we are still here, now. It's probably better that than the eye of light sucking bit by bit defragmenting us yuck id'be scary.

seanhogge
2008-Dec-08, 07:11 PM
Looks like some pharmacist didn't check for drug interactions before filling. How negligent.

trinitree88
2008-Dec-08, 07:13 PM
If it's Z. Reti 2, i'm getting a tin foil hat.

RalofTyr...doesn't that have to be zirconium foil to handle all the radiation?:shifty::eek:

Cougar
2008-Dec-08, 07:27 PM
What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the [galaxy] centre?

As mentioned, what do you (or they) mean by "alignment"? Any two points are always in a line....

tusenfem
2008-Dec-08, 07:28 PM
Hi all,

Just wondered. In some Mayan circles they seem to beleive that the Sun will align with Galactic centre. By the way I dont beleive it and the point of this thread is not to have an argument about that.



I just gave a Xmas seminar at work about "the end of the world" and ofcourse 2012, planet X and galactic alignment.

This means that at the winter equinox point the sun is projected on the center of the galaxy. However, Jean Meeus, in Mathematical Astronomy Morsels (1997 see book review in Sky & Telescope (http://esoads.eso.org/abs/1997S%26T....94b..70M), and see also here (http://www.willbell.com/math/MC16.HTM)) showed that this has already occurred in 1998!! So much for the 2012 stuff.

Swift
2008-Dec-08, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by dirty_g
What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the [galaxy] centre?
As mentioned, what do you (or they) mean by "alignment"? Any two points are always in a line....
dirty_g posted this in 2007 and didn't resurrect this thread, so I don't we can expect a response from him.

@ PrestonED - Hi, welcome to BAUT. By the way, what the heck are you talking about?

megrfl
2008-Dec-08, 07:54 PM
Looks like some pharmacist didn't check for drug interactions before filling. How negligent.

I was reading PrestonEd's posts with my head tilting side to side (like a dog) and than I read this... I think I got whiplash. Hilarious.

sabianq
2008-Dec-08, 08:12 PM
Wait Wait Wait Wait...

hold on here..
what about this?
http://www.astro.ncu.edu.tw/~wchen/Projects/Solar%20System%20and%20its%20Place%20in%20the%20Ga laxy.pdf


The Sun and planets move in a quasi-elliptical orbit between about 8.4 and 9.7 kpc from the galactic center, with a period of revolution of about 240 million years. The solar system Is currently close to and moving inward toward "perigalacticon," the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center. In addition, the solar system moves perpendicular to the galactic plane in a harmonic fashion, with a period of 52 to 74 million years and an amplitude of ~49 to 93 pc out of the galactic plane.

does this mean that the solar system moves in and out through the galactic plane as it orbits?

does this mean that at some point, the sun is on the same plane as the galactic center which means that it would be aligned?

the OP did say

I want nothing to do with 2012 end of world woo woo rubbish.

and the article i am referencing shows that there is indeed a progression of the solar system through the galactic plane.


The Sun and planets passed through the galactic plane about 2-3 million years ago, moving "northward."

and here too, this article suggests that the solar system is oscillating up and down as it orbits the galaxy.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v317/n6035/abs/317338a0.html

The periodic component probably arises from the harmonic oscillation of the Sun about the galactic plane,

this article also suggest the same thing:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2007/10/hubbles-secret-.html

Our own star moves toward and away from the Milky Way's center, and also up and down through the galactic plane. One complete up-and-down cycle takes 64 million years- suspiciously close to the Earth's biodiversity cycle.

and even our own Grant Hutchison suggests that there is a oscillation through the galactic plane
http://www.bautforum.com/questions-answers/80827-solar-system-angle-galaxy.html
post 4

The period is about 65 million years. The amplitude is about 200 light-years either side of the galactic plane.
and here

post 7

The 65-million-year period is the cycle time of the sine wave, yes. So the sun spends equal time north and south in any period of that duration.

Grant Hutchison

he was only asking how we could know this information,
i am interested too.



or is all of this against mainstream hogwash?

grant hutchison
2008-Dec-08, 08:25 PM
does this mean that the solar system moves in and out through the galactic plane as it orbits?Yes. Although the local mass distribution isn't well enough known to define the plane exactly, or to say exactly when we'll pass through it again. But it's something on the order of 60 million years from now.


does this mean that at some point, the sun is on the same plane as the galactic center which means that it would be aligned?The sun is always in some "same plane" as the galactic centre. In fact, it's always in an infinite number of "same planes" as the galactic centre, since it's always possible to draw an infinite number of planes through any two points.

The "2012 alignment" is indeed hogwash.

Grant Hutchison

Abaddon
2008-Dec-08, 08:31 PM
As mentioned, what do you (or they) mean by "alignment"? Any two points are always in a line....

Its 3 points. Earth, Sun, and galactic centre in a straight line. Or Sun, Earth and core if you prefer. I have no clue if any significance is attached to the order by the proponents.

Abaddon
2008-Dec-08, 08:35 PM
oh and also great significance is attached to crossing the galactic plane, an event which occurs every several million of years if memory serves. Why? Beats me.

sabianq
2008-Dec-08, 08:45 PM
Yes. Although the local mass distribution isn't well enough known to define the plane exactly, or to say exactly when we'll pass through it again. But it's something on the order of 60 million years from now.

The sun is always in some "same plane" as the galactic centre. In fact, it's always in an infinite number of "same planes" as the galactic centre, since it's always possible to draw an infinite number of planes through any two points.

The "2012 alignment" is indeed hogwash.

Grant Hutchison

ha!
i dont think that the 2012 thing is relevant here, but as for a question about alignment, if you were to look at the galaxy from the side on with the galactic plane running horizontal and the center of the galaxy in the center of the picture, and say the solar system is on the right coming toward us in its orbit, the suns north should be pointing up and aligned with the north side of the galaxy. if you imagine two points of reference on the suns equator, one on the right and one on the left and draw a line between the two points the line will intersect the exact galactic center only twice per oscillation.

is that called an Ecliptic Plane?

so when the solar system is inthe center of the galactic plane, then it would be aligned.

is this what is what is meant by solar alignment with the galactic plane?

thanks

also how do we know this information?

sabianq
2008-Dec-08, 08:54 PM
there are several articles that correlate the dinosaurs extinction and the progression of the earth through the galactic plane.

"Galactic Drift Causes Mass Extinction!" sounds like a Fox news headline.

i wonder if there is a correlation, even some folks at Harvard seem to think so.
hmmm

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984Natur.308..712S

A possible correlation between the 26-Myr extinction period reported by Raup and Sepkoski (1984) and the sun's oscillation about the galactic plane is pointed out. The extinction level for electromagnetic radiation in the 2 keV-01 eV range and the galactic cosmic ray distribution both change with distance from the galactic plane, and their possible role as agents of mass extinctions is briefly examined.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-05/cu-dts050208.php
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=1378
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/05/cataclysmic-clo.html

grant hutchison
2008-Dec-08, 08:59 PM
is this what is what is meant by solar alignment with the galactic plane?It isn't. The galactic centre is (very roughly) in the ecliptic plane now. By the time the sun descends through the galactic plane, we'll have moved well around the galaxy, and the rough alignment between galactic centre and ecliptic will have been lost.


also how do we know this information?We have an estimate of the sun's galactic orbit because we know its velocity relative to the surrounding stars, and we have an estimate of the mass distribution of the galaxy. That lets us plot an approximate orbit.

Grant Hutchison

Cougar
2008-Dec-08, 09:32 PM
dirty_g posted this in 2007 and didn't resurrect this thread, so I don't we can expect a response from him.

Oh, criminy.... :o

Cougar
2008-Dec-08, 09:53 PM
hold on here..
what about this?
http://www.astro.ncu.edu.tw/~wchen/Projects/Solar%20System%20and%20its%20Place%20in%20the%20Ga laxy.pdf




"The Sun and planets move in a quasi-elliptical orbit between about 8.4 and 9.7 kpc from the galactic center, with a period of revolution of about 240 million years. The solar system Is currently close to and moving inward toward "perigalacticon," the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center. In addition, the solar system moves perpendicular to the galactic plane in a harmonic fashion, with a period of 52 to 74 million years and an amplitude of ~49 to 93 pc out of the galactic plane."

I don't think any of this is new or surprising to more advanced students of the galaxy. And the error bars in the harmonic component of the Sun's orbit are so large, one could fit any number of mass extinctions into such a broadly defined periodicity. BTW, Raup and Sepkoski discovered the periodicity of mass extinctions, and they hypothesized that another star or a 'companion' star to the Sun periodically sweeps through its nearest orbit and perturbs our system's Oort cloud, resulting in more Earth-orbit-crossing comets and asteroids. Such a "Nemesis" star has been searched for, but at this point, its existence may have been ruled out (since there is no star in the neighborhood with such orbital characteristics).

A rough galactic correlation is interesting, but correlation does not mean causation. I'd like to hear a plausible explanation of the mechanism of how galactic dynamics could cause terrestrial periodic mass extinctions before I check ebay for zirconium foil hats...

Swift
2008-Dec-08, 10:04 PM
I'd like to hear a plausible explanation of the mechanism of how galactic dynamics could cause terrestrial periodic mass extinctions before I check ebay for zirconium foil hats...
Zirconium foil (http://www.alfa.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?PROCFUN+WEBOEP+SRCHCHK+alf+ENG+FUNCPARMS+ SECTION(A0030):970+KEYSTRING(A0300):Zirconium%20fo il+DISPLAY(A0030):all) in a variety of thicknesses. You'll have to make your own hat.

sabianq
2008-Dec-09, 01:37 AM
.... but correlation does not mean causation.

i have hear that somewhere before.. but i am not sure where....

sabianq
2008-Dec-09, 02:04 AM
but i would think that this is the post Cougar meant to quote:
as the other one was more of a question that was based on the oscillation of the solar system through the galactic plain.





there are several articles that correlate the dinosaurs extinction and the progression of the earth through the galactic plane.

"Galactic Drift Causes Mass Extinction!" sounds like a Fox news headline.

i wonder if there is a correlation, even some folks at Harvard seem to think so.
hmmm

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984Natur.308..712S


A possible correlation between the 26-Myr extinction period reported by Raup and Sepkoski (1984) and the sun's oscillation about the galactic plane is pointed out. The extinction level for electromagnetic radiation in the 2 keV-01 eV range and the galactic cosmic ray distribution both change with distance from the galactic plane, and their possible role as agents of mass extinctions is briefly examined.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-05/cu-dts050208.php
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=1378
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/05/cataclysmic-clo.html


but that is neither here nor there as i am assuming that the alignment that the OP was writhing about and questing is when the suns Ecliptic plane is aligned with the galaxy's ecliptic plain.


Just wondered. In some Mayan circles they seem to beleive [sic]that the Sun will align with Galactic centre. By the way I dont beleive it and the point of this thread is not to have an argument about that.

What I want to know is how could we know when the Sun is in alignment with the centre? It's impossible to know isnt it? We don't know exactly where we are in the Galaxy. I heard heard some poeple argue that it won't be in alignment to it and it would be on a different date. I just want to know how on Earth we would know? It's impossible isnt it? May I reitierate I want to know how we would know we are in alignment. I want nothing to do with 2012 end of world woo woo rubbish. Cheers

grant hutchison was the only one who tried to answer his question in a serious manner,
nobody asserted that there was a solar system oscillation where the ecliptic plain of the sun actually aligns with the ecliptic plain of the galaxy. i wonder why nobody brought up that piece of information.

when i was reading the thread i was confused because there were several people who were seemingly implying that any alignment with the galactic plain is hogwash. which is why i dug up the article about the solar system orbit around the galaxy and how we (the solar system) oscillates up and down through the galactic plain as it orbits.

if i were the original poster, i would have felt like i was being made fun of.
his question was a serious question and was never answered, he was just ridiculed, the second post was a long list of threads that already dealt with end of the world woo woo crap when he in his first post specificaly said that the post was not about the 2012 end of the world woo woo stuff.
i would assume that is the reason why he probably never came back to follow up.
i may be wrong as it is just an assumption.

but nonetheless, there seems to be a plethora of people only reading partial posts and coming to their own conclusions about what the OP knows or more specifically does not know then instantly jumping to conclusions and condemning the poster for not knowing while all the long the real question or proof of knowledge was in the original post.

i am completely guilty of the act i articulate, i just would like to see more people like me actually take time to read thoroughly and completely before condemning and posting information that is already there.

Veeger
2008-Dec-09, 02:14 AM
Zirconium foil (http://www.alfa.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?PROCFUN+WEBOEP+SRCHCHK+alf+ENG+FUNCPARMS+ SECTION(A0030):970+KEYSTRING(A0300):Zirconium%20fo il+DISPLAY(A0030):all) in a variety of thicknesses. You'll have to make your own hat.


I'll be needing some of that foil - I'm about to venture in.

Sabiang,
The article you posted said "The solar system Is currently close to and moving inward toward "perigalacticon," the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center."

This means, the elliptical orbit of the solar system as it takes that long journey around the disk has a perigalacticon which means at some we will reach our closest approach to the center before we whip around and out toward apigalacticon. Much like a comet which circles the sun but much less elliptical. It has nothing to do with crossing the galactic plane.

Read farther and you find: "The Sun and planets passed through the galactic plane about 2-3 million years ago, moving "northward."

In general we have a pretty good idea where we are and how we're moving relative to the galaxy and that's how we know the 2012 woo is - er - woo.

eta: Oh wait! - now I'm confused - I thought you were actually saying we are moving toward the galactic plane before I read your last post - if not, nevermind.

formulaterp
2008-Dec-09, 04:31 AM
nobody asserted that there was a solar system oscillation where the ecliptic plain of the sun actually aligns with the ecliptic plain of the galaxy. i wonder why nobody brought up that piece of information.


Maybe nobody brought it up because it might not actually happen, ever.

The ecliptic plane is nearly perpendicular to the galactic plane. Do we know of some really long term precession going on where the two planes become parallel?

Robert Tulip
2008-Dec-09, 05:45 AM
The ecliptic plane is nearly perpendicular to the galactic plane. Do we know of some really long term precession going on where the two planes become parallel?As noted by Grant Hutchison at http://www.bautforum.com/questions-answers/80827-solar-system-angle-galaxy.html the angle is more like sixty degrees, not ninety. There seems to be no precessional force altering this angle at any discernible pace. So the ecliptic disc will keep the same angle relative to the universe as it orbits the galaxy every quarter of a billion years. I think this means that in ~120 million years we will again line up with the galactic plane, at the June solstice.

tusenfem
2008-Dec-09, 08:31 AM
but that is neither here nor there as i am assuming that the alignment that the OP was writhing about and questing is when the suns Ecliptic plane is aligned with the galaxy's ecliptic plain.



Not to sound pedantic or anything, but did you actually read what I wrote in post #8 about how they defined "Galactic Alignment"???

Let me repeat it here:

This means that at the winter equinox point the sun is projected on the center of the galaxy.

However, Jean Meeus, in Mathematical Astronomy Morsels (1997 see book review in Sky & Telescope (http://esoads.eso.org/abs/1997S%26T....94b..70M), and see also here (http://www.willbell.com/math/MC16.HTM)) showed that this has already occurred in 1998!!

astromark
2008-Dec-09, 09:18 AM
Talking of different things... Post 33,and Quote. "The solar system Is currently close to and moving inward toward "perigalacticon," (what?) the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center." end quote. Has nothing to do with the movement up or down through the galactic plain.. This solar system is along with all the others rotating about the central mass of this galaxy. It bobbles up and down as it does so., and from what you have just told me, that orbital path may not be perfectly round. Some inward / outward movement is also noted. It takes about a quarter of a billion years to complete just one rotation of this galaxy. The gravity of the near to us mass has effected the orbital path. The galactic plain is not like the rings of Saturn. Movement up through it could be undetectable to us. Not for the avid astronomers ability to detect such events for us. Looking up is not enough. Did you notice that in 1998 this actually happened.

grant hutchison
2008-Dec-09, 09:32 AM
nobody asserted that there was a solar system oscillation where the ecliptic plain of the sun actually aligns with the ecliptic plain of the galaxy. i wonder why nobody brought up that piece of information.Because there is no such thing, as quite a few people have pointed out to you. There is no occasion on which the ecliptic plane aligns with the galactic plane.
There is an occasion on which the winter solstice position of the sun in the sky passes through the equator of the conventional galactic coordinate position: that happened ten years ago.
There is an occasion when the sun drops through the true central plane of the galactic disc: that happens in about thirty sixty million years time, but the ecliptic will not be aligned with the galactic disc or the galactic centre when it happens.

Grant Hutchison

Veeger
2008-Dec-09, 10:14 PM
Talking of different things... Post 33,and Quote. "The solar system Is currently close to and moving inward toward "perigalacticon," (what?) the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center." end quote. Has nothing to do with the movement up or down through the galactic plain.. This solar system is along with all the others rotating about the central mass of this galaxy. It bobbles up and down as it does so., and from what you have just told me, that orbital path may not be perfectly round. Some inward / outward movement is also noted. It takes about a quarter of a billion years to complete just one rotation of this galaxy. The gravity of the near to us mass has effected the orbital path. The galactic plain is not like the rings of Saturn. Movement up through it could be undetectable to us. Not for the avid astronomers ability to detect such events for us. Looking up is not enough. Did you notice that in 1998 this actually happened.

"Are you talking to me?" (DeNiro lke demeanor).
I made post 33 and I know exactly what perigalacticon is, as I explained in my post. Are you saying something different than I? By the way, our orbit around the galaxy is not perfectly round - it is elliptical - but I thought I was explaining it to someone who didn't understand - hence the simpler choice of words.

"Are you talking to me?" (now shaving head).