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wolfpoker
2007-Aug-09, 05:24 AM
I have a Question

I'd like to know where we are and what the heck (modified by moderator) we are doing here??

What is the Universe and what comes after the Universe. I heard about our solarsystem and all that and our 9 (8)Plantes and whatsoever but where is all that and waht is bigger than this.
Is our Universe just a Planet in another bigger universe or what.
And what comes after those black holes- is it really that there's nothing after tehm or in them??

and how can I see those things with my own eyes or experience all that great things that are going on in the universe and not just pain and everyday struggle.

Please help me I'm curious as hell to find out about all that

and more what comes after the Universe and where is our Uiverse located??

01101001
2007-Aug-09, 06:04 AM
Welcome to the BAUT Forum.


I have a Question

From a quick skim, I'd say you have several, but maybe they are riffs on the same thing.


I'd like to know where we are and what the heck we are doing here??

Middle of our visible universe -- but everyone everywhere says that. In relation to what do you want to know our location?

As for the the what-we-are-doing, that sounds like a philosophy question not well suited to a science-oriented forum. You might need to seek elsewhere.


What is the Universe and what comes after the Universe.

The Universe is all there is, space, time, energy and matter. It's not clear there is an "after" to the Universe. If you're asking why, that's philosophy again.


I heard about our solarsystem and all that and our 9 (8)Plantes and whatsoever but where is all that and waht is bigger than this.

What is bigger than our puny solar system? Here's a list from another topic, in someone's signature: Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster. Those are names of things progressively larger, that contain our system. Many, many things that parallel those structure, but don't contain us, are larger too.


Is our Universe just a Planet in another bigger universe or what.
And what comes after those black holes- is it really that there's nothing after tehm or in them??

and how can I see those things with my own eyes or experience all that great things that are going on in the universe and not just pain and everyday struggle.

Please help me I'm curious as hell to find out about all that

and more what comes after the Universe and where is our Uiverse located??

I'm worn out. Too many questions. You might have more luck asking one at a time. But, maybe someone else will try to tackle them here though.

(Oh, and could you think about using fewer hells? The emphasis doesn't impress me nor seem necessary for communication, and isn't really in the spirit of things here.)

Again, welcome. I hope you enjoy BAUT. Check out the rules for posting (http://www.bautforum.com/about-baut/32864-rules-posting-board.html#post564845) if you haven't.

Cougar
2007-Aug-09, 03:05 PM
I'd like to know where we are and what the heck we are doing here??
This video (http://www.space.com/php/video/player.php?video_id=mm31A_ScaleUniverse) should give you some perspective.

As to what we're doing here.... there are probably about 6 billion answers to that one. I'll just say, the best we can.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Aug-09, 03:09 PM
For the philosophical aspects of your question you may have to consult the super computer Deep Thought.

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Aug-09, 03:22 PM
For the philosophical aspects of your question you may have to consult the super computer Deep Thought.
The answer has already been given and it is 42. Now, the question, that is the difficult part! ;)

wolfpoker
2007-Aug-09, 04:21 PM
As I thought nobody knows!!!
I asked the same Question what is bigger than our Universe at the harvard Forum, Yale and Berkley and all those people which work with this everyday and get paid don't know it eitehr- it's a shame but at the same time great cause noone knows- we're all wired we're here somwhere in the Universe and don't know much (modified by moderator) about anything but everyone is talkin and talkin as they would know.

Funny if you think about it.

And all I'm askin is a simple Question; where are we in this Universe and what is the universe and what comes after teh Universe- or better where's the Universe and there must be something bigger than the Universe.

I see it like that, we're in the UNited States and the next big thing is our planet- after our planet is the Uiverse- but where is our Universe located and where is the thing where our Universe is located located and so on- space must be endless then.

I really need to figure that out

Tucson_Tim
2007-Aug-09, 04:24 PM
By definition, we can only know about our universe. We cannot know what came before or what will come after.

But we can always surmise and guess and think about it. :)

Kullat Nunu
2007-Aug-09, 04:50 PM
And all I'm askin is a simple Question; where are we in this Universe and what is the universe and what comes after teh Universe- or better where's the Universe and there must be something bigger than the Universe.

Universe = all that is. There is no such thing as "outside" of the Universe.

The actual universe is probably far larger than we can see: because our Universe is "only" about 13.7 billion years old, we can only see objects that are 13.7 billion light years or less from us (light travel distance; the actual distance is much more complicated because the Universe expands). What lies beyond that, we can't know.

Some theories suggest that there are more dimensions than the three spatial and one temporal we are familiar with. However, if there are other universes they would probably not be causally connected to us which means we can never observe them.

Swift
2007-Aug-09, 04:53 PM
<snip>
And all I'm askin is a simple Question; where are we in this Universe and what is the universe and what comes after teh Universe- or better where's the Universe and there must be something bigger than the Universe.

You might call it a "simple" question, but it is not. It is more along the lines of one of those ultimate questions humans have asked for as long as we have been humans.

There is no way to describe where we are in the Universe. There is no standard set of coordinates to describe such as thing. We can only describe our position in comparision to other objects, such as the Andromeda galaxy.

As far as after the Universe, we don't know that there is an after; here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe) is a wikipedia article about the fate of the Universe that might be a good place to start.

And as far as "bigger than the Universe" or what's outside of the Universe, well, as far as we know, there is no outside, the Universe is everything.

wolfpoker
2007-Aug-09, 07:00 PM
how can someone define everything.

You can have a ball and all teh air inside a ball is all the air inside so everything is inside, but since its inside what is on the outside.

I imagine it that way
if we describe our universe as the the ball, with everything we know is inside that ball, sun, planets etc.. and the black hole is the hole where you pump in the air- than what is on the outside- you know I'm sayin

I don't try to annoy everybody but I think it's a good question and I wanna find the answer.

I'll know when it's the right answer i'm sure- just all the otehr answers are kind of ya, how can I say- answers of brainwashed people or school brainwashed people- I don't know the answer myself but I'm sure it's something simple if we find out.

You know first they thought the earth is a disc now it's round, before there was only hot stones, lave and all kind of crap nside and now people assume it's holow, so what is all that bologna (modified by moderator), how come we're getting fooled of those and I think that are very inmportant questions that people try to hide from us- at least from me cause I don't know better either- I also know that crap we learned in school and the older I get the more I fnd out it was just a waste of time beeing in school and learning all that what is on the end not even true.

and I got in trouble all my life cause I didn;t believe in that school theories just to find out I was right that they were wrong.

so what tha hell is going on??

Tucson_Tim
2007-Aug-09, 07:10 PM
You can have a ball and all teh air inside a ball is all the air inside so everything is inside, but since its inside what is on the outside.

I imagine it that way
if we describe our universe as the the ball, with everything we know is inside that ball, sun, planets etc.. and the black hole is the hole where you pump in the air- than what is on the outside- you know I'm sayin


Well, that's a three dimensional anology. Space-time is 4 dimensions. In one theory of the universe, it is a 4-D hypersphere, something the human mind probably can't visualize.

R.A.F.
2007-Aug-09, 09:16 PM
and I got in trouble all my life cause I didn;t believe in that school theories just to find out I was right that they were wrong.

After reading your other thread, this actually makes sense...

Well...I should say, I can see how it makes sense to you.

Lurker
2007-Aug-09, 09:38 PM
I have a Question

I'd like to know where we are and what the hell we are doing here??

What is the Universe and what comes after the Universe. I heard about our solarsystem and all that and our 9 (8)Plantes and whatsoever but where is all that and waht is bigger than this.
Is our Universe just a Planet in another bigger universe or what.
And what comes after those black holes- is it really that there's nothing after tehm or in them??

and how can I see those things with my own eyes or experience all that great things that are going on in the universe and not just pain and everyday struggle.

Please help me I'm curious as hell to find out about all that

and more what comes after the Universe and where is our Uiverse located??
A lot of posters will give you lots of deep, learned books to read through that will leave you none the wiser. If you are really serious, however, in your questions, I suggest you read "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". Many here may tell you it's filled with nonsense, but that's only because they don't want to share the answers with you...

So... get a copy, get a towel, and read it carefully cover to cover; the book, not the towel... :doh:

Cougar
2007-Aug-09, 10:44 PM
..we're here somwhere in the Universe and don't know much about anything but everyone is talkin and talkin as they would know.
Nobody knows anything about anything? If you study just a little bit of science, I think you'll find there is a lot that IS known about our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, and our universe.


And all I'm askin is a simple Question; where are we in this Universe and what is the universe and what comes after teh Universe- or better where's the Universe and there must be something bigger than the Universe.
Actually, that is four questions topped off by an unfounded statement. And the problems with your questions are, they are vague and ambiguous. "Where are we in this universe?" What do you mean? Are you looking for an address? We are out toward the edge of a spiral galaxy that is one galaxy among hundreds of billions of other galaxies. What kind of location information do you want? Your question is just vague. And you seem to revel in the fact that you're not getting an answer - from people at Harvard and Berkeley, for example - but I would say that's not their failing. It's your failing for not asking a question that has any meaning. There are plenty of questions that are essentially nonsense. Like "How far is blue?" Well, gee, there's no answer to a question like that.

Lurker
2007-Aug-09, 11:43 PM
Nobody knows anything about anything? If you study just a little bit of science, I think you'll find there is a lot that IS known about our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, and our universe.


Actually, that is four questions topped off by an unfounded statement. And the problems with your questions are, they are vague and ambiguous. "Where are we in this universe?" What do you mean? Are you looking for an address? We are out toward the edge of a spiral galaxy that is one galaxy among hundreds of billions of other galaxies. What kind of location information do you want? Your question is just vague. And you seem to revel in the fact that you're not getting an answer - from people at Harvard and Berkeley, for example - but I would say that's not their failing. It's your failing for not asking a question that has any meaning. There are plenty of questions that are essentially nonsense. Like "How far is blue?" Well, gee, there's no answer to a question like that.
Don't listen to him!! Read Hitchhiker before its too late!!!!! :eek:

Swift
2007-Aug-10, 03:44 AM
I imagine it that way
if we describe our universe as the the ball, with everything we know is inside that ball, sun, planets etc.. and the black hole is the hole where you pump in the air- than what is on the outside- you know I'm sayin

I don't try to annoy everybody but I think it's a good question and I wanna find the answer.

As I said, its a good question, but not a simple one. And while you might image the universe as a ball, with an outside, that model of the universe doesn't agree with our observations.

As I suggested in your other thread, you need to lay off the bad language if you expect to keep posting here.

And what is with all the brainwashing comments. There is a big difference between brainwashing and education. I gather you didn't like school - that's fine, lots of people don't. It doesn't mean you have all the answers and the rest of us are brainwashed. You'll find that many people here are open to new ideas. But just because you claim it, it doesn't make it true. We expect some evidence to prove these ideas. And we expect you to be open to new ideas too.

trinitree88
2007-Aug-10, 01:55 PM
[QUOTE=wolfpoker;1045596]I have a Question

I'd like to know where we are and what the heck we are doing here??

wolfpoker. Welcome to BAUT. SNIPPET above from your original post. Curiously, after examining the leftovers from the purported beginnings of our universe, we find that Earthlings occupy a very special place in the universe. Our solar system lines up it's plane with a distinct signature in the radiation fireball that created the universe, but has now cooled to a few degrees above absolute zero. It's nice to know that we are all special, here.
Unfortunately, any lifeforms in other galaxies, or even solar systems in this one seem to have little chance of being that lucky. Makes you wonder about the meaning of it all. :think: pete

GOURDHEAD
2007-Aug-11, 02:00 PM
and I got in trouble all my life cause I didn;t believe in that school theories just to find out I was right that they were wrong.Your lack of understanding and your belligerent attitude derive more from bad semantics than from bad cosmology. When something is defined as "all that exists", it cannot be constructive to ask: what else is there?". If you wish to define the universe as being extremely large and finite or of infinite order at one of the lesser orders of infinity, asking how it might be bounded or of restricted order of infinity might be productive. My guess is there are many more questions for which to seek answers that are more profitable.

Saluki
2007-Aug-12, 02:55 AM
The way I see it, Wolfpoker is displaying a fundamental lack of understanding of the scientific method.

He thinks that science class is about learning all the "truths" (actually the thinks they are lies, but it is irrelevant) of the cosmos. In reality, science is not even remotely about "truths", or even "lies" for that matter. It is about observing things, making guesses (hypotheses) about why things are the way we have observed them, and then verifying that the guesses continue to match/predict future observations.

When new observations contradict the guesses, then new guesses are made. If a particular guess holds up to observations for an extended period, it becomes a theory. However, even a theory can be thrown out when new evidence comes to light. This is a never-ending process.

We don't have to "accept what they tell us" in a science class. The beauty of the scientific method is we can each test what they tell us on our own.

Jens
2007-Aug-13, 06:20 AM
As I thought nobody knows!!!


The problem is, I can probably interpret your real question as follows: what is the ultimately nature of reality? But nobody knows. If we knew, there would be no need for scientists. Thankfully there are always new questions. So don't expect a simple answer.

Davidoc
2007-Aug-13, 12:37 PM
Man i thought i knew a bit about the universe but it turns out i know very little compared to some of you guys. :sad:

Cougar
2007-Aug-13, 02:59 PM
Curiously, after examining the leftovers from the purported beginnings of our universe, we find that Earthlings occupy a very special place in the universe. Our solar system lines up it's plane with a distinct signature in the radiation fireball that created the universe, but has now cooled to a few degrees above absolute zero.
This is highly questionable. Can you give a link to the thread where this is being discussed?

trinitree88
2007-Aug-18, 03:22 PM
This is highly questionable. Can you give a link to the thread where this is being discussed?


Cougar. Everything changes, just catching up with you. I'll post two links.

The first is to Max Tegmark's comments on the original posting of the "axis" somehow seemingly aligned with the ecliptic...
http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/07/31/anatomy-of-a-paper-part-iii-culmination/


and the second is to Jerry and ngeo at...

http://www.bautforum.com/astronomy/56579-axis-evil-due-cosmic-magnetic-field.html

btm1
2007-Aug-20, 03:32 PM
PBS's NOVA ran a program (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ ) about the universe that addresses our universe and what else there might be. It has to do with membrane and string theory and suggests a model in which there are multiple universes in 11 or 12 dimensions and the big bang was caused by a collision of two of them. But I don't understand much of it so don't use me as an expert. The program was titled "The Elegant Universe" after a book by that same tittle by Brian Greene. But all in all, I don't see how science, or, more particularly, the scientific method (observation, theory, new observation to test the theory) can answer the question of how existence came to be and what was there before existence was created, if "before" even means anything before time had meaning.

Cougar
2007-Aug-20, 05:05 PM
I'll post two links.
The first is to Max Tegmark's comments on the original posting of the "axis" somehow seemingly aligned with the ecliptic...
Reference no. 42 of Sean Carroll's paper states:


Thus, the statistical evidence for a power asymmetry anomaly is both substantial and robust, although not decisive, for the currently available data. Increased sky coverage through better foreground handling and full-sky and high-sensitivity polarization maps may shed further light on this issue.

But you make it sound like this conclusion is incontrovertible:


...we find that Earthlings occupy a very special place in the universe. Our solar system lines up it's plane with a distinct signature in the radiation fireball that created the universe, but has now cooled to a few degrees above absolute zero. It's nice to know that we are all special, here.

Of course, when astronomers are led to a conclusion that "Earthlings occupy a very special place in the universe," the first thing they say is, "Well, that can't be right. Where did we make a mistake?" I suspect the mistake in this matter just hasn't been found yet.

Ken G
2007-Aug-21, 03:41 AM
I imagine it that way
if we describe our universe as the the ball, with everything we know is inside that ball, sun, planets etc.. and the black hole is the hole where you pump in the air- than what is on the outside- you know I'm sayin
What you are saying is that the process of science has limitations. I am sorry that this was not made more clear to you originally in school, but I'm glad it is clear now.


I don't try to annoy everybody but I think it's a good question and I wanna find the answer.There are two very different meanings for the phrase "good question". One is, it is a productive question that will help organize future experiments. The other is, it is an unproductive question that we have not the least chance of getting an answer to. I would say that yours is a "good question" in the latter sense.


I'll know when it's the right answer i'm sure- just all the otehr answers are kind of ya, how can I say- answers of brainwashed people or school brainwashed people- I don't know the answer myself but I'm sure it's something simple if we find out.It is fine to have a sense of knowing something, I hope you reach that place. It will not come from science in this case, however, so it will not be a scientific knowing. That also means it will not have the advantages of scientific knowing, like being demonstrable to other people, but I think we can all pretty much agree that science cannot answer your questions. If someone suggested to you that science is capable of answering all questions, they did not know much about science.



You know first they thought the earth is a disc now it's round, before there was only hot stones, lave and all kind of crap nside and now people assume it's holowYou lost me there-- I'm back with the lava and hot stones.


I also know that crap we learned in school and the older I get the more I fnd out it was just a waste of time beeing in school and learning all that what is on the end not even true.I am deeply concerned about the sources you are using for information now, and wish to point out that there may come a day when you view those current sources in a similar light to how you now see school. I hope that happens, anyway.


and I got in trouble all my life cause I didn;t believe in that school theories just to find out I was right that they were wrong.
I think it's a shame whenever schools take the perspective of "this is truth, have another plate of it shoved down your throat". That's not actually education, it's a lazy form of day care. What you should have been taught is how to formulate a productive question, and valid ways to go about finding an answer to that question, along with what has so far been the results of following that very process.

Hekate's Lair
2007-Aug-23, 09:18 PM
The answer has already been given and it is 42. Now, the question, that is the difficult part! ;)

The correct answer is 6. That stupid computer forgot to add the digits. No wonder they couldn't get back to the question... :lol:

dayll
2007-Aug-27, 02:02 AM
"Where am I going - and why am I in this hand-basket?" (I borrowed this from a hot boater. dayll)

OmahaWx
2007-Aug-29, 03:26 AM
Your questions can not be answered scientifically, its more of a philisophical (as 01101001 said) question. I have thought about it alot too, Creationism personally help me in understanding a bit more.

Ken G
2007-Aug-29, 03:40 AM
You are aware that "creationism" is supposed to be a science, right? It sounds like you don't interpret it that way. Keep thinking for yourself, I say.

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Aug-29, 12:43 PM
You are aware that "creationism" is supposed to be a science, right? [Snip!]
Strange, I always thought of creationism as a tacky little pseudo-science established for the purpose of propping up one religious minority's dogma. ;)

Ken G
2007-Aug-29, 09:55 PM
Of course, but I believe you are taking my statement out of context of the OmahaWx post it is in reference to.

William
2007-Aug-29, 11:08 PM
In reply to Kullat Nunu’s comment:


The actual universe is probably far larger than we can see: because our Universe is "only" about 13.7 billion years old, we can only see objects that are 13.7 billion light years or less from us (light travel distance; the actual distance is much more complicated because the Universe expands). What lies beyond that, we can't know.

Although the universe is per the standard cosmological model, estimated to be 13.7 billion years old, we can see objects that are around 33 billion light years away. (Theoretically 47 billion years, less due to dust and other practical issues.)

Attached is a link to Ned Wright’s cosmological FAQ that provides additional details and a good overview of the standard cosmological model. In a nut shell the explanation is that space itself is expanding, which it is theorized causes a “cosmological” redshift in addition to increasing the distance between unconnected astronomical objects. (There is some ambiguity concerning the details, as to how the changes in space physically affect light and what is or is not an unconnected astronomical object.)

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#DN

Attached is a link to Wright’s web site’s cosmological calculator that can be used to calculate how redshift, absolute distance, and time, would be related, if the standard cosmological model is a fact. (Set H=72)

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/DlttCalc.html

Comments:
Is should be noted that these statements are dependent on the standard cosmological model. (i.e. They are only true if the standard cosmological model is correct. There is not direct observations to support them.) There is strong, unanswered, data and analysis (last 7 years) that challenges certain aspects of the standard cosmological model.

Some expect that the standard cosmological model will therefore change, which makes this an interesting area to follow. (There are a number of significant fundamental unsolved cosmological puzzles.)

Ken G
2007-Aug-30, 02:21 AM
Although the universe is per the standard cosmological model, estimated to be 13.7 billion years old, we can see objects that are around 33 billion light years away. (Theoretically 47 billion years, less due to dust and other practical issues.)You are right William, but that's what Kullat Nunu meant about the light travel distance not being the actual distance. It wasn't essential to the point he was making, but your links are indeed quite useful to play with.