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Unregistered
2007-Aug-15, 02:21 AM
well I just passed along this site and I have been reading lately about all of this stuff with the poles flipping exactly on december 21, 2012, and how it will bring life as we know it to a halt, and blah blah, and I just wanna get your opinions on the latest doomsday topics...

personally, I feel it is all a bunch of garbage...if we are basing our main theory on this because of something the mayans predicted thousands of years ago, then that cant abe a good reason to believe something like this...and all these ppl that say "oh, well the continents will shift 1000's of km's immediately, and the magnetic field will shift immediately"...how is all of this possible? I just want someone to tell me the truth about all this nonsense...personally, I dont believe anything will happen on december 21, 2012...ill be finishing up wrapping my childrens christmas presents and going to church

01101001
2007-Aug-15, 02:30 AM
well I just passed along this site and I have been reading lately about all of this stuff with the poles flipping exactly on december 21, 2012, and how it will bring life as we know it to a halt, and blah blah, and I just wanna get your opinions on the latest doomsday topics...

Yep, it's nonsense.

We've discussed it much. If you don't mind, here are some topics that I keep track of, that contain discussion to probably any depth you can stand, at the end, this topic:

2003 no, 2012 si (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=03179)
2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=03181)
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=07145)
2012 alignment question (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=09421)
about the Mayan 2012 item (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10214)
2012 Debunking? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10724)
Possible asteroid impact in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10924)
2012 asteroid? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=13592)
We don't have to worry about 2012! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16490)
More on 2012 from India Daily (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16709)
2012 Completion of conspiracy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=17667)
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18322)
crop circles, Planet X and 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18375)
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18378)
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18757)
More 2012 Nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=19201)
NEO 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20191)
Dangerous NEO in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20539)
Christmas 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=23941)
2012 mayan calender end of world (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=30892)
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=31452)
New 2012 threat? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32413)
2012 look at this thing on the sun (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35462)
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=38978)
Pole shift idea origins (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=43775)
Dec 20 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46117)
2012 Stuff (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=51021)
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53788)
Date: December 21st 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53831)
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53904)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)
So what will we see in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54404)
Galactic Tsunami? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54418)
Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55312)
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55386)
2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=56513)
Any truth to this? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58039)
How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63109)
the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63449)

Unregistered
2007-Aug-15, 02:37 AM
ah thanks for all the tips, so basically on december 21st well be ending our chrristmas shopping...and thats about it...eh didnt believe any of it, but how did all these theories come up in the first place? the most rediculous one ive heard is the one about the continents shifting immediately

01101001
2007-Aug-15, 02:49 AM
[...] but how did all these theories come up in the first place?

I don't know how there are so many flavors of 2012 events. I'd imagine it's because lots of people fabricated what the date would hold, to make money, to gain attention, to freak people out, whatever.

The date is of interest because the Mayan calendar does a major rollover then (but does not end). People mistook that, and just proceeded to make stuff up to match.

triplebird
2007-Aug-16, 12:55 AM
The date is of interest because the Mayan calendar does a major rollover then (but does not end). People mistook that, and just proceeded to make stuff up to match.

Next, the 2012 proponents will inform us the poles will shift every December 31, since that's when the Gregorian calendar rolls over. ('course, maybe the poles do shift on New Year's Eve, that's why people are so crazy that night... :) )

cbacba
2007-Aug-21, 05:45 PM
21? pretty close to the 31 and everyone knows that all the yearly calendars go defective and you have to buy new ones - either that or find yourself a new insurance agent.

vonmazur
2007-Aug-21, 08:41 PM
There was a 3rd rate paperback in the 70's, called "The HAB Theory". I think this "magnum opus", combined with the 2012 nonsense, is the mystic mainspring behind a lot of this stuff.....Art Bell has contributed to a lot of this also....

Dale

Independently Contracted
2007-Aug-22, 04:08 PM
"NASA predicts that the Sun will also reverse its own magnetic poles during 2012 as result of reaching the end of the current 11-year sunspot cycle."

...An interesting tidbit indeed. Thanks Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012).

Grashtel
2007-Aug-22, 07:37 PM
"NASA predicts that the Sun will also reverse its own magnetic poles during 2012 as result of reaching the end of the current 11-year sunspot cycle."

...An interesting tidbit indeed. Thanks Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012).
Considering that according to that the Sun's magnetic field also reversed in 2001, 1990, 1979, 1968, ect and Earth has not been destroyed, experienced "Earth Changes" or anything else noticeable what makes you think that is of any significance?

OnTheWing2007
2007-Oct-11, 07:06 PM
Remember; OUR calander is based-off the guessed day of Jesus Christ's birth.
The Mayan calander is based-off astronomical events. SOMETHING WILL happen... But we may only figure out what "IT" is, decades AFTER the 2012 "event". For example:People blame the "full-moon" on bizzar human/animal behavior, along with high-tide. Short of the whole Earth bursting into flames; Life-will-survive. In the year 2121 they will look back 109 years in the past and already know what happened according to the old gregorian calander on December 21, 2012.

OnTheWing2007
2007-Oct-11, 07:10 PM
personally, I think some of "us" can remember what happened on "Cinco de Mayo"...

Maksutov
2007-Oct-12, 08:38 AM
Remember; OUR calander is based-off the guessed day of Jesus Christ's birth.So New Year's Day is December 25th?

BTW, I've always wanted to start a petition in favor of making Easter (or at least Passover) the first day of the year. Imagine the February effect the second year!

Meanwhile, rollover Mayanen, and tell Tchaikovsky the news.

:lol:

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-19, 10:11 PM
I dont believe anything will happen on december 21, 2012...ill be finishing up wrapping my childrens christmas presents and going to church
Me, too. And all of us BAUTers will be feeling sad because it's 363 more days until Carl Sagan Day.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-22, 07:18 PM
When that day comes, just stand on your head. From your point of view, the poles will be "flipped". ;)

John Mendenhall
2007-Oct-23, 04:55 PM
Yep, it's nonsense.

We've discussed it much. If you don't mind, here are some topics that I keep track of, that contain discussion to probably any depth you can stand, at the end, this topic:

[/URL]

Great list, thank you!

Unregistered
2007-Oct-26, 02:49 PM
2012 is when the Mayan calander stone ends... What if it ends on that date simply because the Mayans could only make the stone a certian size?
As I recall wasn't the stone supposed to be mounted over an enterance for one of their temples?
I think we need to have the rim of the calander examnined very VERY carfully!
Somewhere on it I'm sure it has the symbols for "Continued On Disk 2" :o)

Randy

Unregistered
2007-Oct-30, 03:56 PM
Everyone keeps talking about the Mayan Calender. Forget about that, the main source of concern should be that the sun and our solar system is crossing the galactic polar plain of our universe. No one thinks that this event migth cause electronic interupptions and power grids to go off-line?

Gillianren
2007-Oct-30, 07:24 PM
Everyone keeps talking about the Mayan Calender. Forget about that, the main source of concern should be that the sun and our solar system is crossing the galactic polar plain of our universe. No one thinks that this event migth cause electronic interupptions and power grids to go off-line?

Um, no. No, they don't.

Van Rijn
2007-Oct-30, 09:37 PM
Everyone keeps talking about the Mayan Calender. Forget about that, the main source of concern should be that the sun and our solar system is crossing the galactic polar plain of our universe.


Would you care to explain what you mean by "galactic polar [plane?] of our universe"? There have been some folks claiming that the sun would soon cross the equatorial plane of our galaxy (there are, of course, many galaxies in the universe), but this turns out not to be true. We're not passing near a "pole" of our galaxy either. Here is a discussion of some of these issues related to another "plane" claim:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/06/27/is-the-sun-from-another-galaxy/



No one thinks that this event migth cause electronic interupptions and power grids to go off-line?

Well, given that the solar system isn't going through the "equatorial plane" for a very long time (long compared to human history), no. But even assuming it did, we would have to consider what was suggested that would cause these issues, and look for evidence to see if it actually existed.

Jim
2007-Oct-31, 09:04 PM
Thread moved.

2001Intrepid
2007-Nov-01, 09:49 AM
There was a 3rd rate paperback in the 70's, called "The HAB Theory". I think this "magnum opus", combined with the 2012 nonsense, is the mystic mainspring behind a lot of this stuff.....Art Bell has contributed to a lot of this also....

Dale
Ahhh, the "HAB Theory" short for Hugh Auchincloss Brown, an electrical engineer who devoted his life into his '90s urging Congress, The UN etc. to prevent the "dangerous" buildup of ice at the poles which was supposed to throw the Earth off balance..the theory's been disproved, however. Now the poles are melting anyway...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Auchincloss_Brown

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Nov-01, 09:51 AM
Isn't this guy Unregistered?

How is he posting?!

CodeSlinger
2007-Nov-01, 04:24 PM
Yeah, how does that work??? I was going to guess it had something to do with a ban. But there's been no recent additions to the banned posters log, and in any case, bans don't show up that way, right?

Laguna
2007-Nov-01, 04:32 PM
Yeah, how does that work??? I was going to guess it had something to do with a ban. But there's been no recent additions to the banned posters log, and in any case, bans don't show up that way, right?
Right, they show up as banned under the users name...

Jim
2007-Nov-01, 06:33 PM
Isn't this guy Unregistered?

How is he posting?!

There seems to be a glitch in the software that allows unregistered guests to post to one of the forums. That's where this thread started; I moved it here based on the subject matter. (It will be interesting to see if the OP can post here.)

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Nov-01, 07:16 PM
There seems to be a glitch in the software that allows unregistered guests to post to one of the forums. That's where this thread started; I moved it here based on the subject matter. (It will be interesting to see if the OP can post here.)

We have a forum where unregistered users can post?

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-01, 07:45 PM
It came from Bad Astronomy Stories. I think it has special rules because that section is associated with the BA's blog.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-01, 09:58 PM
I think it has special rules because that section is associated with the BA's blog.
The BA's blog was like my toe-dip for BAUT. I was making comments there a month before I created my acount, just to find out if people cared about what I had to say.

Grand_Lunar
2007-Nov-02, 12:57 AM
The Mayan calander is based-off astronomical events. SOMETHING WILL happen...


For all we know, it could be when Jupiter and Venus come close to each other, with a crescent moon not far off.

Or, it could be when Mars is at it's brightest.

Or maybe a comet will show up. AGAIN!

Or...it's another big word, along with "If".

Neverfly
2007-Nov-02, 06:14 AM
The BA's blog was like my toe-dip for BAUT. I was making comments there a month before I created my acount, just to find out if people cared about what I had to say.

Hello KaiYeves, welcome to BAUT. Please read the rules and FAQ and enjoy the forum.

Wait....



I just had the strangest feeling of deja vu...:think:


<shrugs> oh well...

CrusaderPCM
2007-Nov-02, 10:06 AM
Is Nibiru Coming? If You Want To Know What I Am Talking About Check It Out On My Site [some URL] I am looking for any information I can get, if anyone as seen it by eye or telescope in the southern pole area please e-mail me with what you know at I would be very grateful for any genuine information! Thanx Crusaderpcm.

some email address

The powers that be are building underground bunkers all over the world for the selected few they pick to survive Nibiru coming. Nibiru is a planet that is part of or galaxy but as Earth takes 365 days in its orbit Nibiru takes 3666.6 years. It as pass by earth many times before, once it struck earth and caused devastating damage to the planet. It also cause the extinction of the dinosaurs when it passed very close to earth and caused an ice age. It is due to pass through again in 2012. Its arrival as already started to alter Earths weather. It can already be seen in the south pole where the U.S have set up a large telescope to track its approach. But you won't see it by sight until the end of 2010 when of course it will be denied. But by the beginning of 2012 it will be hard to hide the fact of its approach. Basically if you have watched a film called Deep Impact then that is what will happen. So if you are not one of the chosen one you are stuffed and expected to go quietly into the night. Personally I going to use the well know motto hope for the best plan for the worst. Me and my loved ones are going to survive this because I'm preparing for the worst are you?

Halcyon Dayz
2007-Nov-02, 10:13 AM
Aha.

:whistle:

Searching for 'Niburu' produces a list of 91 threads where it is mentioned.
You might want to read some of those.

Welcome to BAUT.

(Make sure you read this (http://www.bautforum.com/about-baut/32864-rules-posting-board.html).)

antoniseb
2007-Nov-02, 10:23 AM
Check It Out On My Site

I have suspended CrusaderPCM for two weeks. Normally spammers get the boot for life, but there is a chance that this person has a sincere interest in astronomy and/or spaceflight (he wasn't spamming for cheap cell phones), so we'll give him another chance in two weeks.

ZappBrannigan
2007-Nov-02, 01:17 PM
Does CrusaderPB&J like Starburst candy? This sounds very familiar, but with the dates off by a decade...

Laguna
2007-Nov-02, 01:34 PM
Deep Impact? :doh: :lol:

sts60
2007-Nov-02, 04:29 PM
Hello, CrusaderPCM.

Is Nibiru Coming?

No.

If You Want To Know What I Am Talking About Check It Out On My Site [some URL] I am looking for any information I can get, if anyone as seen it by eye or telescope in the southern pole area please e-mail me with what you know at I would be very grateful for any genuine information! Thanx Crusaderpcm.

some email address

As HalcyonDayz already pointed out, we've been through this ad nauseum on this forum. Do you have any points to raise that haven't been chewed over before?

The powers that be are building underground bunkers all over the world for the selected few they pick to survive Nibiru coming.

No, they're not. This is an evidence-free claim.

Nibiru is a planet that is part of or galaxy

Then you mean it's part of our solar system. Saying it's "part of our galaxy" implies it's not gravitationally bound to the Sun, but that is contradicted by the rest of your sentence.

but as Earth takes 365 days in its orbit Nibiru takes 3666.6 years.

Then it would have been near Earth about 1660 BC. At a bare minimum it would have been a spectacular naked-eye object. Yet there is no mention of such an object in art and writings of that time. So your claim fails for lack of historical evidence.

It as pass by earth many times before, once it struck earth and caused devastating damage to the planet. It also cause the extinction of the dinosaurs when it passed very close to earth and caused an ice age.

No evidence for either claim.

It is due to pass through again in 2012.

Indeed? Then you know its orbital elements. What are they, exactly? No handwaving, please. Either you know its orbit (as already implied by your 3666.6 year period claim above), or you do not know its orbital elements and therefore have no basis for your claim.

Its arrival as already started to alter Earths weather.

Nonsense. Such an object would have to be well out past Mars, or it would be a fairly bright naked-eye object already, easily visible to anyone in the Southern Hemisphere and much of the Northern Hemisphere as well. But no such object has been reported. No planetary object at such a distance can have any perceptible influence on Earth's weather, any more than Mars or the asteroids have an effect on Earth's weather.

It can already be seen in the south pole where the U.S have set up a large telescope to track its approach.

No, the U.S. has not set up such a telescope to observe its approach. Another claim simply made up.

But you won't see it by sight until the end of 2010 when of course it will be denied.

This claim implies that the object must be significantly further out than Mars' orbit. Which makes your "affecting Earth's weather" claim even more impossible.

But by the beginning of 2012 it will be hard to hide the fact of its approach.

If you know its orbital elements already - which you must know if you can predict its passage - than it is already impossible to hide its approach. Thousands of amateur astronomers across the world would already be able to image it. Unless it is somewhat further out than Pluto - in which case, based on a few quick-and-dirty calculations, it's likely that it wouldn't even be gravitationally bound to the Sun anyway.

Basically if you have watched a film called Deep Impact then that is what will happen. So if you are not one of the chosen one you are stuffed and expected to go quietly into the night. Personally I going to use the well know motto hope for the best plan for the worst. Me and my loved ones are going to survive this because I'm preparing for the worst are you?

I'm more interested in real dangers, not silly made-up ones. But thanks for your concern.

ZappBrannigan
2007-Nov-02, 05:36 PM
Basically if you have watched a film called Deep Impact then that is what will happen.
I'm personally much more worried about conspiracy theories that mirror the movie Xanadu, where Greek muses once again walk the Earth, creating roller discos.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-02, 06:11 PM
This line in particular caught my eye:

once it struck earth and caused devastating damage to the planet.

If it struck, it would have stuck. And we wouldn't be here today. Planets, even dwarf planets, have too much mass and gravity to carom off each other like billiard balls. They would have collapsed into each other, releasing a lot of energy in the process, making one big mushy ball of molten goo.

Dave J
2007-Nov-02, 06:24 PM
I saw Crusader's post and thought it was a spoof, with the "some url" and "some website thing". It's really hard to separate satire from the genuine thing...for me at least.

JayUtah
2007-Nov-02, 07:00 PM
That's why satirizing conspiracy theories doesn't work: the satire is indistinguishable from the theory.

Swift
2007-Nov-02, 07:28 PM
If you know its orbital elements already - which you must know if you can predict its passage - than it is already impossible to hide its approach. Thousands of amateur astronomers across the world would already be able to image it. Unless it is somewhat further out than Pluto - in which case, based on a few quick-and-dirty calculations, it's likely that it wouldn't even be gravitationally bound to the Sun anyway.

Look at how many people jumped on the eruption of comet Holmes for proof of this.

@ Dave J - I suspect the reason for "some url" and "some website thing" is that antoniseb removed them as part of our rules enforcement and defense against spammers.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-02, 07:47 PM
Protecting oneself from Nibiru is like protecting oneself from Invaders from Mars.
Pointless.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-02, 07:51 PM
Protecting oneself from Nibiru is like protecting oneself from Invaders from Mars.
Pointless.

Because they're ALREADY HERE! Ahahahaha...




Sorry. Couldn't resist.

pzkpfw
2007-Nov-02, 08:18 PM
...if anyone as seen it by eye... please e-mail me

versus


But you won't see it by sight until the end of 2010



and




The powers that be are building underground bunkers all over the world for the selected few they pick to survive...

versus


Me and my loved ones are going to survive this because I'm preparing for the worst are you?



Not even self-consistent.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-04, 10:10 PM
Not even self-consistent.
But go easy on him, he has loved ones.

tbm
2007-Nov-21, 03:42 AM
Regarding the Mayan calendar/2012 thing.

If the Mayans were so friggin' smart, why didn't they foresee their OWN demise?

tbm

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-21, 02:43 PM
If the Mayans were so friggin' smart, why didn't they foresee their OWN demise?
;-D

JayUtah
2007-Nov-21, 03:16 PM
If the Mayans were so friggin' smart, why didn't they foresee their OWN demise?

You mean monsters from the id?

Stuart van Onselen
2007-Nov-21, 05:31 PM
If the Mayans were so friggin' smart, why didn't they foresee their OWN demise?

You mean monsters from the id?

I don't get this one. What's John Carmack got to do with the Mayans?

:whistle:

JayUtah
2007-Nov-21, 05:51 PM
It's a reference to the film Forbidden Planet in which a supposedly advanced race extinguished themselves by providing a method by which thought could be realized in substance, whereafter their elementary subconcious was rendered real and physically destroyed them. The line is the dying words of the visiting ship's doctor who finally understood the mystery of their disappearance.

It's a common theme in science fiction to fell (or occasionally to save) an advanced culture by means of the overlooked or forgotten point of the crude natural world. Conversely, basic nature can be used to challenge extraordinary claims: such as wondering why psychics need appointments or still have car accidents.

aurora
2007-Nov-21, 06:00 PM
Regarding the Mayan calendar/2012 thing.

If the Mayans were so friggin' smart, why didn't they foresee their OWN demise?

tbm

Maybe you can ask them. Their decendents still live in the Yucatan.

In fact, some of their cities were still inhabited when the Spanish arrived (like at Tulum), although the Aztecs had pretty well taken control by then.

Maksutov
2007-Nov-22, 08:26 AM
All's Krell that ends Krell.

-Leslie NielsenFortunately Anne Francis survived (http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1297/5089_0031.jpg).


Meanwhile I could really give a flip about 2012. It's been a dead "issue" so long I wouldn't touch it with an 8,000 mile pole.

Swift
2007-Nov-22, 02:55 PM
Actually, I figured out why the Earth will be destroyed on December 21, 2012. On that date, gasoline in the US will hit $5 per gallon, resulting in not just the collapse of the US economy, but the actual flipping of the poles. And those Mayans figured the whole thing out. ;)

jami cat
2007-Nov-22, 04:10 PM
2012 is when the Mayan calander stone ends... What if it ends on that date simply because the Mayans could only make the stone a certian size?
As I recall wasn't the stone supposed to be mounted over an enterance for one of their temples?
I think we need to have the rim of the calander examnined very VERY carfully!
Somewhere on it I'm sure it has the symbols for "Continued On Disk 2" :o)

Randy

Just like them 15 Commandments...opps...um...10, 10 Commandments...:P

tbm
2007-Nov-23, 02:18 AM
And what do the Poles think of all this talk of them flipping? I'm sure Lech Walesa has something to say about it. Or is this a sport similar to cow tipping? Are the Poles asleep when it happens?

tom

justsomeguy99
2009-Nov-20, 08:13 AM
well i have been reading about 2012 and i think it can, but i'm not sold on it i think if this is true the work of patrick geryl, gino ratinckx, adrian gilbert,maurice cotterell, are the only ones that make sense, i hope to god the poles don't flip i did see a nova show on pole fliping it can flip. i'm not yet sold on the idea but if its true the people i posted are the ones that make any kind of sense,

Mellow
2009-Nov-20, 09:21 AM
Obligatory thread necromancy alert! almost 2 years.... soo close!

Swift
2009-Nov-20, 04:21 PM
well i have been reading about 2012 and i think it can, but i'm not sold on it i think if this is true the work of patrick geryl, gino ratinckx, adrian gilbert,maurice cotterell, are the only ones that make sense, i hope to god the poles don't flip i did see a nova show on pole fliping it can flip. i'm not yet sold on the idea but if its true the people i posted are the ones that make any kind of sense,
justsomeguy99,

First, welcome to BAUT.

Second, I don't know who any of those people are, I don't know what they've said, so I can't say if what they say makes sense. But there is absolutely zero evidence that anything special will happen in 2012, particularly with "pole flips".

I suspect the Nova program you saw was on the movement of the magnetic poles of the Earth. This is a very well studied process and has gone on for billions of years. If you are interested, a little searching around BAUT will find plenty of past discussions about it. Again, there is zero evidence it will happen in 2012.

The kind of "pole flip" that the 2012-types talk about is not the magnetic poles, but the rotational pole of the Earth. The idea of that flipping is nonsense.

If you have specific questions or thoughts, please post them.

coreybv
2009-Nov-20, 05:04 PM
i hope to god the poles don't flip i did see a nova show on pole fliping it can flip.

Yes, the poles can shift. In fact, we have solid evidence that they have shifted several times in the past.

HOWEVER, the process takes millions of years to complete. It won't cause any disasters, it will be a slow and gradual thing. The transition from summer to winter causes us MANY more problems than a pole shift would, and we handle that just fine every single year.

MAPNUT
2009-Nov-20, 06:20 PM
Darn, I hate it when I read all the way through a 2-page topic before I notice it's 2 years old. I thought 0101etc.'s list seemed a little short.

And a pole shift means reversal of magnetism. Not that the planet turns upside down or starts revolving the other way. Some people aren't clear on that.

tusenfem
2009-Nov-20, 07:03 PM
And a pole shift means reversal of magnetism. Not that the planet turns upside down or starts revolving the other way. Some people aren't clear on that.

Unless you believe good ole Nancy, then it is a geographical pole reversal, created by the strong magnetic pull of Planet X.

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 01:30 AM
Yep, it's nonsense.

We've discussed it much. If you don't mind, here are some topics that I keep track of, that contain discussion to probably any depth you can stand, at the end, this topic:

2003 no, 2012 si (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=03179)
2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=03181)
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=07145)
2012 alignment question (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=09421)
about the Mayan 2012 item (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10214)
2012 Debunking? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10724)
Possible asteroid impact in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10924)
2012 asteroid? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=13592)
We don't have to worry about 2012! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16490)
More on 2012 from India Daily (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16709)
2012 Completion of conspiracy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=17667)
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18322)
crop circles, Planet X and 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18375)
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18378)
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18757)
More 2012 Nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=19201)
NEO 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20191)
Dangerous NEO in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20539)
Christmas 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=23941)
2012 mayan calender end of world (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=30892)
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=31452)
New 2012 threat? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32413)
2012 look at this thing on the sun (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35462)
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=38978)
Pole shift idea origins (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=43775)
Dec 20 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46117)
2012 Stuff (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=51021)
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53788)
Date: December 21st 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53831)
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53904)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)
So what will we see in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54404)
Galactic Tsunami? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54418)
Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55312)
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55386)
2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=56513)
Any truth to this? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58039)
How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63109)
the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63449)

Is a discussion of the tippe top on your list?
Do one of those threads 'go there'?

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 01:38 AM
BTW, I've always wanted to start a petition in favor of making Easter (or at least Passover) the first day of the year. Imagine the February effect the second year!


forget the jews and christians.
just become a muslim and you shall have your wish.

OR everybody, jews, christians, muslims, all peoples, bow down to the moon. :)

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 01:49 AM
Second, I don't know who any of those people are, I don't know what they've said, so I can't say if what they say makes sense. But there is absolutely zero evidence that anything special will happen in 2012, particularly with "pole flips".



I don't know who any of those people are.
I don't know what they said.
but there is absolutely zero evidence that anything special will happen in 2012.

and with that logic life goes on....

I can prove you wrong. :doh:
Something special will definitely occur.
Should be a really good show.

namaste

HenrikOlsen
2009-Nov-22, 02:08 AM
forget the jews and christians.
just become a muslim and you shall have your wish.

OR everybody, jews, christians, muslims, all peoples, bow down to the moon. :)
Looks like you're ignorant that the Hebrew Calendar is also lunar.

R.A.F.
2009-Nov-22, 02:19 AM
Looks like you're ignorant that the Hebrew Calendar is also lunar.

...or that Maksutov died last year...

slang
2009-Nov-22, 02:31 AM
...or that Maksutov died last year...

Now now, R.A.F., a new poster can hardly be expected to know that, and with the frequency of Mak's excellent posting this issue is likely to turn up again and again. Yet, judging from reading Mak's posts, I'm sure he'd be laughing his behind off at someone arguing religion with him at this particular point in time. *tips glass*

Nowhere Man
2009-Nov-22, 02:40 AM
a new poster can hardly be expected to know that,
What about the fact that he's responding to two-year-old posts?

Fred

slang
2009-Nov-22, 11:06 AM
What about the fact that he's responding to two-year-old posts?

Fred

Pah, that's nothing. Wake me up when someone beats 8 years. :)

captain swoop
2009-Nov-22, 11:12 AM
If a thread is open he can post in it.

tusenfem
2009-Nov-22, 11:50 AM
Is a discussion of the tippe top on your list?
Do one of those threads 'go there'?


Raphael, is this message and the rest of your nonsense posts below going somewhere? This is a trhead about 2012 and pole flips, nothing about the moon or religions and whatever else you wrote.

Also, you will start now to refrain from all the religious comments you are placing here on the board.

Either join in the discussion or refrain from posting. Continuation of this nonsense will lead to another infraction.

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 01:52 PM
I wish people would stop predicting a catastrophe in 2012, the Olympics aren't that far over budget...:)

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 02:56 PM
I wish people would stop predicting a catastrophe in 2012, the Olympics aren't that far over budget...:)

somebody can see what I was actually suggesting that I was predicting in 2012.
yes the olympics will be a grand show.

Another huge event, marking 911 is also scheduled.
The opening of the brand new and improved WTC, scheduled to be completed in 2012, accompanied by pomp and ceremony. :whistle:

maybe the WTC ceremony might be orchestrated in such a way...that it will assist in helping to reverse human consciousness?
Maybe religion and science both grow up and shake asymmetrical hands?

I.e. maybe it is a ceremony representing the impending 'flip' everybody anticipates?

But this 'archetypal' flip might have more to do with our MINDS flipping, than the earth itself?
The minds of 6 billion sheeple and seegullibles who affect the observation?

The mind is a powerful thing.
Maybe if we learn to use both hemispheres of the ASYMMETRICAL brain consciously, we really might tap into something grand?

namaste

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 03:21 PM
Raphael, is this message and the rest of your nonsense posts below going somewhere?

my nonsense?
oh my....I am seeing red now.
directed at me by the impartial mod?

that message re: the Tippe Top?
never heard of it eh tusenfem?
Peter Warlow put forth a theory back in the 1980s using this a model for pole reversals.

So do you mind if we discuss it please?
I did NOT see it on the list on the opening page.
That is clearly why I asked about such nonsense. :)



This is a trhead about 2012 and pole flips, nothing about the moon or religions and whatever else you wrote.

unless of course the moon plays a role in such a flip? :whistle:
Can I connect the moon to such a conspiracy?
(I might just post such a theory in the ATM)

Am I not allowed to make comments?

NOW the folks who responded, and attacked my character apparently are entitled to respond?
I am supposed to know when BAUT members died?
oy vey
I am not on the obituary e-mail list yet. :confused:

Did you send the fellas who slammed me with their noxious, toxic comments 'RED' messages too?
c'mon
play and discuss fair



Also, you will start now to refrain from all the religious comments you are placing here on the board.

Either join in the discussion or refrain from posting. Continuation of this nonsense will lead to another infraction.


no problemo amigo
but I do want to respond to one comment, directed at me calling me ignorant.
And then I will refrain from mentioning the moon and religion in the same sentence.
It seems to upset folks on this forum.

Is that fair, that I am allowed to respond to ignorance and post the truth?
I thought BAUT only endorsed truth?

you decide
your impartiality is under the microscope now.

When it comes to the esoteric, arcane, hidden knowledge, the ancient 'mysteries', BAUT members do appear 'challenged'.

There are two sides to what science now has defined as a flat universe.
The Exoteric and the Esoteric.

The ancients said their world/universe was flat, using only naked eye observations of the cosmos, somehow they arrived at this conclusion.
And science with their telescopes, thousands of years, later have finally confirmed this.

Our universe has been identified by science/WMAP as being flat.

yahoo the ancients were correct in their 'archetypal musings'?
Are you familiar with the story about the scientist that climbs the mountain of knowledge only to find the theologian sitting there waiting?

Let me add an addendum to this story.
It is a plateau, it is not the peak the scientist and theologian have reached.

Across the abySS, the priest and scientist see perched on the highest mountain in the vicinity, the shaman.
Yup that is correct, the shaman has been identified as the eastern sherpa who helped carry the westerner Sir Edmund Hillary's fame, on his back.
Right to the top of the world.

namaste

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 03:48 PM
Looks like you're ignorant that the Hebrew Calendar is also lunar.

yes I know that O henry
my comment was directed at the dead poster not ignorance resurrected.


BTW, I've always wanted to start a petition in favor of making Easter (or at least Passover) the first day of the year. Imagine the February effect the second year!


I was addressing his comment about easter/passover becoming the first day of the year.

The muslims, like I inferred in my comment to the dead guy, celebrate the march equinox (=easter/passover) as the first day of the year.

read this O henry ... I know what the vernal equinox REALLY represents dude. :hand:
but any mention of the moon...without landing on it...appears as BAUT heresy? :lol:


# The March equinox marks the first day of various calendars including the Iranian calendar and the Bahá'í calendar.[2] The Persian (Iranian) new year's festival of Nowruz is celebrated then. According to the ancient Persian mythology Jamshid, the mythological king of Persia, ascended to the throne on this day and each year this is commemorated with festivities for two weeks. These festivities recall the story of creation and the ancient cosmology of Iranian and Persian people. It is also a holiday for Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, India, Turkey, Zanzibar, Albania, and various countries of Central Asia, as well as among the Kurds. As well as being a Zoroastrian holiday, it is also a holy day for adherents of the Bahá'í Faith and the Nizari Ismaili Muslims.[3]
# Sham El Nessim was an ancient Egyptian holiday which can be traced back as far as 2700 B.C. It is still one of the public holidays in Egypt. Sometime during Egypt's Christian period (c. 200-639) the date moved to Easter Monday, but before then it coincided with the vernal equinox.
# The Jewish Passover usually falls on the first full moon after the Northern Hemisphere vernal equinox, although occasionally (7 times every 19 years) it will occur on the second full moon.
# The Christian churches calculate Easter as the first Sunday after the first full moon on or after the March equinox. The official church definition for the equinox is March 21; however, as the Eastern Orthodox Churches use the older Julian calendar, while the Western Churches use the Gregorian calendar, both of which designate March 21 as the equinox, the actual date of Easter differs. The earliest possible Easter date in any year is therefore March 22 on each calendar. The latest possible Easter date in any year is April 25.[4]
# Tamil and Bengali New Years follow the Hindu zodiac and are celebrated according to the sidereal vernal equinox (April 14). The former is celebrated in the South Indian state of Tamil Nadu, and the latter in Bangladesh and the East Indian state of West Bengal.
# Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Maharastra people celebrate new year ugadi set by Satavahana on the first morning after first new moon from March equinox. Also the calculations of the great Indian Mathematician Bhaskaracharya proclaim the Ugadi day as the beginning of the New Year, New month and New day.

Leave me alone, find somebody else to 'attack'.

Anybody ready to discuss the 'Tippe Top' = pole reversals OR is attack mode all the mob knows?

namaste

Raphael

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-22, 04:00 PM
Peter Warlow put forth a theory back in the 1980s using this a model for pole reversals.Warlow proposed his "Tippe Top" model (in which the Earth's orientation changes relative to a fixed spin axis) in an article (http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0305-4470/11/10/026/) published in 1978.
Slabinski pointed out flaws in his calculations in an article (http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0305-4470/14/9/042) published in the same journal in 1981.

Grant Hutchison

Otherworldly
2009-Nov-22, 04:06 PM
Something special will definitely occur.

Something special occurs every year.

R.A.F.
2009-Nov-22, 04:43 PM
Now now, R.A.F., a new poster can hardly be expected to know that, and with the frequency of Mak's excellent posting this issue is likely to turn up again and again.

All I meant was Raphael should not be expecting an answer...that's all.


...judging from reading Mak's posts, I'm sure he'd be laughing his behind off at someone arguing religion with him at this particular point in time. *tips glass*

I certainly agree with that...knowing Mak, he'll likely "win" the argument.

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 05:12 PM
Looks like you're ignorant that the Hebrew Calendar is also lunar.

The modern World tracks time by,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The Gregorian calendar is the internationally accepted civil calendar.[1][2][3] It was first proposed by the Calabrian doctor Aloysius Lilius, and decreed by Pope Gregory XIII, after whom the calendar was named, on 24 February 1582 by the papal bull Inter gravissimas. It was adopted later that year by a handful of countries, with other countries adopting it over the following centuries.

Period! :lol:

The Vatican hijacked time for the world. The Calandar of the Sun.

slang
2009-Nov-22, 05:31 PM
All I meant was Raphael should not be expecting an answer...that's all.

Gotcha, misunderstood.

Daggerstab
2009-Nov-22, 06:01 PM
The modern World tracks time by,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The Gregorian calendar is the internationally accepted civil calendar.[1][2][3] It was first proposed by the Calabrian doctor Aloysius Lilius, and decreed by Pope Gregory XIII, after whom the calendar was named, on 24 February 1582 by the papal bull Inter gravissimas. It was adopted later that year by a handful of countries, with other countries adopting it over the following centuries.

Period! :lol:

The Vatican hijacked time for the world. The Calandar of the Sun.

What's exactly your point? The Gregorian calendar is an amendment of the Julian calendar. Do you know after whom it's named?

Oh, and Welcome to the board, if you are not a sock puppet.

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 06:33 PM
Warlow proposed his "Tippe Top" model (in which the Earth's orientation changes relative to a fixed spin axis) in an article (http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0305-4470/11/10/026/) published in 1978.
Slabinski pointed out flaws in his calculations in an article (http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0305-4470/14/9/042) published in the same journal in 1981.

Grant Hutchison

yes that was 1981
we have come a long way baby
well some of us have.
forget the 'calculations' for a moment.

we have identified potential flaws to those 1981 arguments.
we have since identified potential forces necessary to tip us over.

back in 1981, did Slabinski give a reason for why a gamma ray burst could not supply such a force?
will I find that in his retort?

namaste

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 06:37 PM
I certainly agree with that...knowing Mak, he'll likely "win" the argument.

can you fellas 'argue' OR DEBATE for yourselves? :doh:
BAUT is all about 'winning' arguments?

Tucson_Tim
2009-Nov-22, 06:45 PM
BAUT is all about 'winning' arguments?

I believe that you are the same Raphael that posts over on this forum: http://2012forum.com/forum/

Since you seem to be having a good time over there bashing Phil and this forum, why do you post here? (Of course, I know the answer.)

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 06:51 PM
What's exactly your point? The Gregorian calendar is an amendment of the Julian calendar. Do you know after whom it's named?

Oh, and Welcome to the board, if you are not a sock puppet.

what is a sock puppet?
I believe the poster you called a sock puppet did mention Gregorys name.

I hate to bring up the MOON again, which is attached to the earth (i.e. they share a center of gravity) but I have a question.

What would happen to the earth's center of gravity (via barycenter) if the MOON disappeared and no longer had any influence down here?

hypothetically can anybody answer that?
I mean we often hear about meteorites taking us out.
What if something took the MOON out?

Anybody?

And while others are discussing Pope Gregory and the creation of "scientific calenders", (solar vs. lunisolar), can anybody please tell me what the symbols are that the RC church uses, that represent the MOON?

I know the Jews recognize PASSOVER because it marks the beginning of their 'timeclock', the moment of creation.

The Muslims have lunar crescents on their national flags and they worship both the sun and the moon.

The Christians have been called a solar cult.
Funny coincidence, I am having difficulty locating important lunar symbols connected to Christianity.

Would the solar cults rejoice if a meteor took the moon out?

namaste

Raphael
2009-Nov-22, 06:58 PM
I believe that you are the same Raphael that posts over on this forum: http://2012forum.com/forum/

Since you seem to be having a good time over there bashing Phil and this forum, why do you post here? (Of course, I know the answer.)

yes that is correct.
so what...I am not the only fella who arrives on this forum to challenge the mainstream status quo.

if this site is about revealing truths, it will withstand my lies and fabrications, IF that is what they are.
But not one fella has proved me yet a liar, only deficient in using your woo-woo science and math to support my claims.

phil called steve colbert the satirist/comedian out.
I am calling phil the joker/trickster and BAUT out.
I would love to share a stage, positioned between religion and the tag team of phil and dick dawkins.
And not one of us would be allowed to leave the stage until they shout out "I am a monKEY's uncle".
I have the proof to prove they should shake hands and make up.
IMHO

So can anybody answer my science questions, please?
Or shall we only discuss personalities?

WHAT would happen to the earth if a really big meteor took the MOON out instead of the earth?
I am curious as to how science would answer this.

namaste

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 07:07 PM
What's exactly your point? The Gregorian calendar is an amendment of the Julian calendar. Do you know after whom it's named?

Oh, and Welcome to the board, if you are not a sock puppet.



My point is the Catholic Church aka Christianity controls the World with their time keeping methods. The balance of the Solar and Lunar cycles has been corrupted. We are not living in a natural world anymore.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-22, 07:12 PM
yes that was 1981
we have come a long way babyAnd of course we've come an even longer way (baby) since Warlow's 1978 paper.
we have identified potential flaws to those 1981 arguments.Then you must feel free to expound on those potential flaws. And any actual flaws you're aware of, too.

Grant Hutchison

HenrikOlsen
2009-Nov-22, 07:26 PM
back in 1981, did Slabinski give a reason for why a gamma ray burst could not supply such a force?
will I find that in his retort?
Please explain how and why you believe a fairly uniform1 wavefront of electromagnetic radiation is able to exert sufficient force?

And how it would be able to do so without at the same time sterilizing the Earth?

And through which mechanism the Mayan's could have predicted this?

Please note that these are direct questions in the sense of rule 13.

Note also that my name is not Henry, please refrain from referring to me by that name.

1) by the time it reaches us. I know they are highly directionally when generated.

captain swoop
2009-Nov-22, 07:47 PM
Raphael when you are given a warning and advice by a Moderator you do not reply by insulting the Mod and carrying on in the same manner. Also you have been told repeatedly that religion is not allowed on BAUT.
I am awarding youan infraction and an official warning.

Vision-Master. Welcome to BAUIT. Please read the rules for posting, they are linked at the bottom of this post. Please note the discussion of religion and religious topics isn't allowed on BAUT apart from vaery tightly prescribed situation as laid out in the rules

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 07:48 PM
My point is the Catholic Church aka Christianity controls the World with their time keeping methods. The balance of the Solar and Lunar cycles has been corrupted. We are not living in a natural world anymore.

Apart from the fact that large parts of the world use their own calendars of course. And anyway calendars are just a convenience for humans to identify important moment in the earth's orbit around the sun, they have no physical significance as far as the sun and the moon are concerned.

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 07:58 PM
Raphael when you are given a warning and advice by a Moderator you do not reply by insulting the Mod and carrying on in the same manner. Also you have been told repeatedly that religion is not allowed on BAUT.
I am awarding youan infraction and an official warning.

Vision-Master. Welcome to BAUIT. Please read the rules for posting, they are linked at the bottom of this post. Please note the discussion of religion and religious topics isn't allowed on BAUT apart from vaery tightly prescribed situation as laid out in the rules


So Calendar's are not based on religious beliefs?

Is that what you are saying? :hand:

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 08:05 PM
Apart from the fact that large parts of the world use their own calendars of course. And anyway calendars are just a convenience for humans to identify important moment in the earth's orbit around the sun, they have no physical significance as far as the sun and the moon are concerned.

Yeah forget the Lunar cycles\ the changing consciousness we all experience through out the day like high and low tide. You are not the same person at sunrise\ evening\ nightime.

The Lunar cycle of man has been buried.

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 08:10 PM
So Calendar's are not based on religious beliefs?

Is that what you are saying? :hand:

No I was saying calendars are simply an artificial construct with no physical impact on the sun or moon, and pointing out that there are number of different ones in use around the world besides the Gregorian, not sure where the previous post was ambiguous about that.


Yeah forget the Lunar cycles\ the changing consciousness we all experience through out the day like high and low tide. You are not the same person at sunrise\ evening\ nightime.

The Lunar cycle of man has been buried.

What do lunar cycles have to do with the choice of calendar? They are all approximations regardless of whether they are solar or lunar. Do you accept that there are multiple calendars in use? And more to the point what does it have to do with a pole flip in 2012?

HenrikOlsen
2009-Nov-22, 08:18 PM
While specific days in a calendar may commemorate events relevant to a specific religion, the calendar itself is a matter of timekeeping.

The current Gregorian Calendar is a refinement due to astronomical observations of the previous Julian Calendar introduced in 45BC (so hardly a Christian calendar).

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 08:27 PM
While specific days in a calendar may commemorate events relevant to a specific religion, the calendar itself is a matter of timekeeping.


No, the ancients used calendars for more than what we today call 'time keeping' and not just for agriculture either. Why would Plato know about the 'Great Year', what would be the point? Why do all the ancient myths concern themselves with the 12 ages of the Zodiac?

Yer getting set up. :smile:

Otherworldly
2009-Nov-22, 08:34 PM
If the calendar drives the reality, then I suppose the pole flip disaster could be averted just by switching to a different calendar.

I wonder what happens if different people use different calendars. Maybe the pole flips for some of them and not others.

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 08:34 PM
No, the ancients used calendars for more than what we today call 'time keeping' and not just for agriculture either. Why would Plato know about the 'Great Year', what would be the point?

Again you seem not to be reading what what actually written, nobody's saying calendars weren't used for other functions. As to your question, well you've posted it on a CT thread so its up to you to advance an explanation, and to relate it to a 2012 pole flip, the subject of this thread.


Why do all the ancient myths concern themselves with the 12 ages of the Zodiac?

ALL the ancient myths? And again what does that have to do with a pole flip? Seriously I'm invoking rule 13, please answer the question, what is the connection between calendars and a pole flip?

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 08:37 PM
Ok, the calendar I'm taking about is 'the great year' calendar. The 25,800 year cycle calendar. The calendar that is seen in the sky, the calendar that changes with the stars. The calendar with a marker with the early morning Summer solstice.

I'm getting there, hang on.


ALL the ancient myths? And again what does that have to do with a pole flip? Seriously I'm invoking rule 13, please answer the question, what is the connection between calendars and a pole flip?


Ok, like 30 ancient cultures anyways.

Before pole-shift can be explained, an understanding of the importance of the different ages must be known. Do you not believe in the different ages of man? Do you believe in the linear evolution of our species?

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 08:46 PM
Ok, the calendar I'm taking about is 'the great year' calendar. The 25,800 year cycle calendar. The calendar that is seen in the sky, the calendar that changes with the stars. The calendar with a marker with the early morning Summer solstice.

I'm getting there, hang on.



Ok, like 30 ancient cultures anyways.

Still waiting for the pole flip connection, and now you have to provide evidence on those cultures and their 'Zodiac myths'. Oh and could you finish writing a post before hitting the send button? Constantly editing and adding makes it really hard to write a coherent response.


Before pole-shift can be explained, an understanding of the importance of the different ages must be known. Do you not believe in the different ages of man? Do you believe in the linear evolution of our species?

Yes really annoying editing like that. You have read those rules on CT's right? You put forward your theory and the evidence, then we can discuss it. So please present your your pole flip theory and evidence.

tusenfem
2009-Nov-22, 10:04 PM
Before pole-shift can be explained, an understanding of the importance of the different ages must be known. Do you not believe in the different ages of man? Do you believe in the linear evolution of our species?


vision-master, you will answer the question regarding the pole flip now, this is not a thread about calenders and/or their religious interpretations.

If you do not, you will receive an infraction.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-22, 10:16 PM
back in 1981, did Slabinski give a reason for why a gamma ray burst could not supply such a force?
will I find that in his retort?Raphael seems to have edited this into his original post while I was replying to it.
It turns out that Slabinski gave a quite specific retort to this one. The last sentence in his paper reads:
Those who would now appeal to electromagnetic forces from a cosmic body to invert the Earth have the burden of demonstrating quantitatively that (i) an electromagnetic force can produce torques of sufficient magnitude, and that (ii) the torque components along the x1 x2 x3 axes have the proper time dependence to produce an inversion.When Raphael returns from suspension, perhaps he'll respond to Slabinski's points (i) and (ii).

Grant Hutchison

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 11:18 PM
vision-master, you will answer the question regarding the pole flip now, this is not a thread about calenders and/or their religious interpretations.

If you do not, you will receive an infraction.


It's possible a pole shift caused the Deluge. No one knows for sure? Get religious out of yer head, I'm talking about ancient cultures, ok. And I am taking about Calendars, the great big Yuga Cycle calendar. Get it now? The great big one up in the sky, the Precession of the Equinoxes and the meaning the ancients left us about the different Zodiac ages! Yes, buried deep in myth and symbolism.

I wonder if I'll make 10 posts before suspension? :laugh:

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 11:48 PM
It's possible a pole shift caused the Deluge. No one knows for sure? Get religious out of yer head, I'm talking about ancient cultures, ok. And I am taking about Calendars, the great big Yuga Cycle calendar. Get it now? The great big one up in the sky, the Precession of the Equinoxes and the meaning the ancients left us about the different Zodiac ages! Yes, buried deep in myth and symbolism.

Hopefull you've finished this post, though with you post, edit, add a sentence, post, etc. mode it's hard to be sure. Do I understand that you have no scientific rationale for your pole flip theory, just some sort of interpretation of ancient myths?

vision-master
2009-Nov-22, 11:52 PM
Ancient myth is considered permissible evidence in a court of law! :lol:

captain swoop
2009-Nov-22, 11:54 PM
Vision=Master as you will have read the rules as requested you will know the rules for the CT forum place the onus on you to support your claims and answer direct questions. You will only receive Moderator attantion if you consistently fail to do this.
In addition editing a post to change it's meaning or to add or remove content is considered Revisinism and isn't allowed (as you will know having read the rules). It is taken seriously. Restrict edits to spelling and punctuation, if possible make a note in the post.

captain swoop
2009-Nov-22, 11:55 PM
Ancient myth is considered permissible evidence in a court of law! :lol:

This isn't a court of law.

In what way is 'ancient myth' considered as evidence?

Garrison
2009-Nov-22, 11:58 PM
Ancient myth is considered permissible evidence in a court of law! :lol:

Which is yet another claim you'll be expected to provide evidence for, but I would settle for a coherent explanation of your pole flip theory right now. Simply saying that you think some ancient myth describes one, or if the 'mythical' event was real it could have been caused by one doesn't qualify by the rules of this forum, which you have chosen to post on. Oh and when I made this reply the above quote was the only content of your post, so basically anything added after that is going to be ignored for tonight.

Van Rijn
2009-Nov-23, 12:00 AM
It's possible a pole shift caused the Deluge.
No one knows for sure? Get religious out of yer head, I'm talking about ancient cultures, ok.


No religion, check. So, by "Deluge" what event are you referring to? What is the physical evidence for this event, and when and where did it occur?

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 12:02 AM
Vision=Master as you will have read the rules as requested you will know the rules for the CT forum place the onus on you to support your claims and answer direct questions. You will only receive Moderator attantion if you consistently fail to do this.
In addition editing a post to change it's meaning or to add or remove content is considered Revisinism and isn't allowed (as you will know having read the rules). It is taken seriously. Restrict edits to spelling and punctuation, if possible make a note in the post.


Sorry, I'm a poor linguistic. :hand:

I'm more of an symbolisic, archetype, music, picture communicator. It's just how I'm wired. I can't help it. Do you have a problem with my communication skills? Also, I'm terrible at math. ::confused:

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 12:37 AM
No religion, check. So, by "Deluge" what event are you referring to? What is the physical evidence for this event, and when and where did it occur?

The Great Flood (worldwide) caused by the end of the last ice age sometime around 10,000 BCE.

There is varying amounts of scientific geological evidence to support this catophic event.

Orion's Fan
2009-Nov-23, 12:54 AM
The Great Flood (worldwide) caused by the end of the last ice age sometime around 10,000 BCE.

There is varying amounts of scientific geological evidence to support this catophic event.

Worldwide? What evidence?

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-23, 01:42 AM
Worldwide? What evidence?I think vision-master is talking about the global change in sea-level associated with the melting of the Ice Age glaciers. The mythic language ("Great Flood", "Deluge") makes it difficult to be certain.

Grant Hutchison

Orion's Fan
2009-Nov-23, 02:26 AM
I think vision-master is talking about the global change in sea-level associated with the melting of the Ice Age glaciers. The mythic language ("Great Flood", "Deluge") makes it difficult to be certain.

Grant Hutchison

Aha...thanks.

tusenfem
2009-Nov-23, 08:53 AM
The Great Flood (worldwide) caused by the end of the last ice age sometime around 10,000 BCE.

There is varying amounts of scientific geological evidence to support this catophic event.


So you do not as I requested. "It is possible a pole flip cause the deluge," yeah right whatever. "Great flood at the end of the ice age" is THAT pole flip related? This is not an answer, if you want to discuss, come with evidence and facts.

I am not as easy as Captain Swoop and give you an infraction.

ironknight zero
2009-Nov-23, 11:00 AM
Question (Q): Are there any threats to the Earth in 2012? Many Internet websites say the world will end in December 2012.
Answer (A): Nothing bad will happen to the Earth in 2012. Our planet has been getting along just fine for more than 4 billion years, and credible scientists worldwide know of no threat associated with 2012.

Q: What is the origin of the prediction that the world will end in 2012?
A: The story started with claims that Nibiru, a supposed planet discovered by the Sumerians, is headed toward Earth. This catastrophe was initially predicted for May 2003, but when nothing happened the doomsday date was moved forward to December 2012. Then these two fables were linked to the end of one of the cycles in the ancient Mayan calendar at the winter solstice in 2012 -- hence the predicted doomsday date of December 21, 2012.

Q: Does the Mayan calendar end in December 2012?
A: Just as the calendar you have on your kitchen wall does not cease to exist after December 31, the Mayan calendar does not cease to exist on December 21, 2012. This date is the end of the Mayan long-count period but then -- just as your calendar begins again on January 1 -- another long-count period begins for the Mayan calendar.

Q: Could a phenomena occur where planets align in a way that impacts Earth?
A: There are no planetary alignments in the next few decades, Earth will not cross the galactic plane in 2012, and even if these alignments were to occur, their effects on the Earth would be negligible. Each December the Earth and sun align with the approximate center of the Milky Way Galaxy but that is an annual event of no consequence.

"There apparently is a great deal of interest in celestial bodies, and their locations and trajectories at the end of the calendar year 2012. Now, I for one love a good book or movie as much as the next guy. But the stuff flying around through cyberspace, TV and the movies is not based on science. There is even a fake NASA news release out there..."
- Don Yeomans, NASA senior research scientist Q: Is there a planet or brown dwarf called Nibiru or Planet X or Eris that is approaching the Earth and threatening our planet with widespread destruction?
A: Nibiru and other stories about wayward planets are an Internet hoax. There is no factual basis for these claims. If Nibiru or Planet X were real and headed for an encounter with the Earth in 2012, astronomers would have been tracking it for at least the past decade, and it would be visible by now to the naked eye. Obviously, it does not exist. Eris is real, but it is a dwarf planet similar to Pluto that will remain in the outer solar system; the closest it can come to Earth is about 4 billion miles.

Q: What is the polar shift theory? Is it true that the earth’s crust does a 180-degree rotation around the core in a matter of days if not hours?
A: A reversal in the rotation of Earth is impossible. There are slow movements of the continents (for example Antarctica was near the equator hundreds of millions of years ago), but that is irrelevant to claims of reversal of the rotational poles. However, many of the disaster websites pull a bait-and-shift to fool people. They claim a relationship between the rotation and the magnetic polarity of Earth, which does change irregularly, with a magnetic reversal taking place every 400,000 years on average. As far as we know, such a magnetic reversal doesn’t cause any harm to life on Earth. A magnetic reversal is very unlikely to happen in the next few millennia, anyway.

Q: How do NASA scientists feel about claims of pending doomsday?
A: For any claims of disaster or dramatic changes in 2012, where is the science? Where is the evidence? There is none, and for all the fictional assertions, whether they are made in books, movies, documentaries or over the Internet, we cannot change that simple fact. There is no credible evidence for any of the assertions made in support of unusual events taking place in December 2012.

Q: Is there a danger from giant solar storms predicted for 2012?
A: Solar activity has a regular cycle, with peaks approximately every 11 years. Near these activity peaks, solar flares can cause some interruption of satellite communications, although engineers are learning how to build electronics that are protected against most solar storms. But there is no special risk associated with 2012. The next solar maximum will occur in the 2012-2014 time frame and is predicted to be an average solar cycle, no different than previous cycles throughout history.

NorthernBoy
2009-Nov-23, 11:08 AM
The mind is a powerful thing.
Maybe if we learn to use both hemispheres of the ASYMMETRICAL brain consciously, we really might tap into something grand?

nastyman

Oh dear.

We do use both hemispheres consciously. You've been corrected on this before, but seem to think that if you just ignore that, you get to use this idiocy again later.

Are you perhaps suggesting that you are using yours better than others? If so, why does the evidence that you present not demonstrate this?

NorthernBoy
2009-Nov-23, 11:17 AM
The Great Flood (worldwide) caused by the end of the last ice age sometime around 10,000 BCE.

There is varying amounts of scientific geological evidence to support this catophic event.

I think that you are very wrong on this, can you please provide some evidence?

So far as I know, flood myths re just that, myths. We do have real floods (witness Cumbria this last week), but none that cover the whole of the earth. The science rather suggests that that can never happen.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-23, 01:42 PM
See, this is the difficulty that arises when vision-master applies mythic terms to scientific concepts. Using the phrase "Deluge" or "Great Flood" immediately conjures up a world that is totally submerged.

But the usual mythic/scientific linkage here is the suggestion that legends of a Great Flood (very common across many cultures) are derived, through some improbably persistent oral tradition, from the sea-level rise at the end of the last Ice Age.
We know that large tracts of inhabited land were lost, around the world, as the sea rose during the period 12,000-7,000 BP. Europe lost about 40% of its land area, including Doggerland; elsewhere there are famous examples in Beringia, Sundaland and the Carpentaria plain. In some enclosed bays, the waters may have risen fast, because of a sudden sill collapse: that sort of thing has been invoked at the English Channel, early in the thaw, and in the Black Sea and Persian Gulf much later. So it's pretty likely that some Mesolithic populations saw the sea-level make dramatic incursions on to the land over a period of weeks or days (particularly if they inhabited coastal flat lands).
If that's all vision-master is talking about, then we're simply dealing with a Just-So story about the potential persistence of oral tradition about these events, in some parts of the world. (It's odd, however, that in the legends the flood almost always recedes, whereas the most recent global sea rise never did.)

So I think vision-master would be well advised to stop using mythic phrases as catch-all labels, and to start providing some detail.

And there's still the outstanding matter of the pole shift to be dealt with.

Grant Hutchison

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 01:58 PM
I think vision-master is talking about the global change in sea-level associated with the melting of the Ice Age glaciers. The mythic language ("Great Flood", "Deluge") makes it difficult to be certain.

Grant Hutchison

Yeah, it could have been many large floods over hundreds of years? That's p'boly what the Deluge was.

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 02:05 PM
.

My posts are being inspected with a moderator right now, before being listed?

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 02:10 PM
OK, I'll try again. The Deluge was most likely many great floods Worldwide that could have spanned 100's of years?

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-23, 02:12 PM
OK, I'll try again. The Deluge was most likely many great floods Worldwide that could have spanned 100's of years?Are you asking us, or telling us?
What is the extent of the flooding you're claiming?

Grant Hutchison

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 02:18 PM
Are you asking us, or telling us?
What is the extent of the flooding you're claiming?

Grant Hutchison

Neither, just suggesting a possibility. The extent of flooding could have destroyed ancient civilivations. In other words, Earths climate could have changed rapidly causing all kinds of mayhem.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-23, 02:28 PM
Neither, just suggesting a possibility. The extent of flooding could have destroyed ancient civilivations. In other words, Earths climate could have changed rapidly causing all kinds of mayhem.So what you're calling "the Deluge" is actually nothing like the Biblical Deluge, which rose to the summit of Mount Ararat. See how that has already caused confusion?
But now you've dragged in "ancient civilizations" during the Mesolithic, and "rapid climate change" and "all kinds of mayhem". <Sigh.>

How about you just sort out the whole "pole flip" thing, first, which you seem to have been ignoring for a while.

Grant Hutchison

Swift
2009-Nov-23, 02:33 PM
Neither, just suggesting a possibility. The extent of flooding could have destroyed ancient civilivations. In other words, Earths climate could have changed rapidly causing all kinds of mayhem.
But it is a big leap from it possibly happened, to it did happen, without evidence to support it. And it is a much, much bigger leap to suppose that (1) it will happen again, and (2) it will happen in 2012.

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 02:34 PM
So what you're calling "the Deluge" is actually nothing like the Biblical Deluge, which rose to the summit of Mount Ararat. See how that has already caused confusion?
But now you've dragged in "ancient civilizations" during the Mesolithic, and "rapid climate change" and "all kinds of mayhem". <Sigh.>

How about you just sort out the whole "pole flip" thing, first, which you seem to have been ignoring for a while.

Grant Hutchison


I can't. We have very little idea what our human past was was really like 6,000 plus years back. Although, I'm convinced in our ancient past we did things that would be concidered feats of magic in today's World. The Temple of Jupiter is one example.

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 02:50 PM
Should I start another thread titled ' Advanced Ancient Civilizations of our Past' ?

Swift
2009-Nov-23, 02:53 PM
Should I start another thread titled ' Advanced Ancient Civilizations of our Past' ?
If you want to discuss that topic, yes you should. This thread should only be for the discussion of 2012.

Not knowing exactly what you want to say about Advanced Ancient Civilizations, I'm not sure where on BAUT you should start that thread, but we can move it, if necessary, after the fact.

vision-master
2009-Nov-23, 03:00 PM
Ok, I'm going to use a lot of pictures.....

I'll end my disscussion with 'pole-shift' as I really have only myths of the past to support this kind of event.

tusenfem
2009-Nov-23, 03:12 PM
neither, just suggesting a possibility. The extent of flooding could have destroyed ancient civilivations. In other words, earths climate could have changed rapidly causing all kinds of mayhem.

but how is this related to the topic of this thread with is the 2012 pole flip nonsense?????????????????????????????????????????? ?


Ok, I'm going to use a lot of pictures.....

I'll end my disscussion with 'pole-shift' as I really have only myths of the past to support this kind of event.

You had not even started discussing it, so how can you end it?

NorthernBoy
2009-Nov-24, 10:52 AM
Yeah, it could have been many large floods over hundreds of years? That's p'boly what the Deluge was.

OK, so you were using biblical language to refer to what s actualy something that has happened many times over the history of the Earth, and which has never before caused the poles to flip, so, what does this tell up about poles flipping? From here, it looks to be completely irrelevant, and possibly designed to obfuscate.

Can you perhaps not post an irrelevancy, and instead cut straight to the point that you are trying to make?

NorthernBoy
2009-Nov-24, 10:55 AM
I can't. We have very little idea what our human past was was really like 6,000 plus years back. Although, I'm convinced in our ancient past we did things that would be concidered feats of magic in today's World. The Temple of Jupiter is one example.

You are claiming that if we built the temple of Jupiter now, it would be considered magic?

What utter rubbish. You think that people would see the quarrying, the cranes, the masons, and the slow rise of the structure, and think that it was magic?

What a ridiculous assertion.

Of course, I fully expect you to now pretend that you claimed something different, so please, explain precisely what was done in the ancient world that would be considered magic now.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-24, 10:59 AM
NorthernBoy, I'm afraid vision-master has been banned.
Explanations will quite definitely not be forthcoming.

Grant Hutchison

Otherworldly
2009-Nov-24, 11:22 AM
NorthernBoy, I'm afraid vision-master has been banned.
Explanations will quite definitely not be forthcoming.

That's true, but I think it might also have been true even without the banning.

Untestable hypothesis, I guess.

NorthernBoy
2009-Nov-24, 11:41 AM
NorthernBoy, I'm afraid vision-master has been banned.
Explanations will quite definitely not be forthcoming.

Grant Hutchison

Ah, yes. Poor observation on my part there.

tusenfem
2009-Nov-24, 01:27 PM
I think, hereby I will close this thread.