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The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 03:02 PM
If any specialists in the field of radiation could kindly clear this for me. :)

I (naturally) spend long hours on a computer. A meter or so away from me is a Wireless router which is on 24/7 to provide the communications needs in the house.
While looking innocent I wonder if the 2.4 Ghz radiation emitted is leaving any effects on the living tissue. IIRC this is the same frequency used in microwave ovens. This only leaves me with the horrible idea that prolonged exposure may have some effect...

Maksutov
2007-Aug-19, 03:06 PM
This may come in handy during the winter.

BTW, the frequency is one thing, the intensity, distance, shielding, and time are another.

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 03:17 PM
BTW, the frequency is one thing, the intensity, distance, shielding, and time are another.
Well I think the intensity of say 1 per hour would give the same as 10 per hour if used for 10 hours.
Distance = 1 meter
Shielding = not much as the radiation obviously escapes

Maksutov
2007-Aug-19, 03:30 PM
Well I think the intensity of say 1 per hour would give the same as 10 per hour if used for 10 hours.
Distance = 1 meter
Shielding = not much as the radiation obviously escapesThe intensity is 1 what? What's the actual intensity? What are the units?

Radiation typically escapes from/through almost all shielding. Although with good shielding it's attenuated to an insignificant amount, approaching or equaling zero. What's your shielding?

What's the exposure time?

You asked for input from "specialists in the field of radiation". I used to assist Health Physics in enriched uranium and plutonium processing facilities. You need to supply much more data before an assessment can be made of your risk.

BTW, your concern has to do with non-ionizing radiation. That in itself should tell you something.

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 03:43 PM
Radiation typically escapes from/through almost all shielding. Although with good shielding it's attenuated to an insignificant amount, approaching or equaling zero. What's your shielding?

Well I dont know what counts if I can see the antenna.


What's the exposure time?

Perhaps 5 hours a day from 1 meter while working on the computer. And when I am sleeping it would be 8 hours from 5 meters appx.


You asked for input from "specialists in the field of radiation". I used to assist Health Physics in enriched uranium and plutonium processing facilities. You need to supply much more data before an assessment can be made of your risk.

OK. There is a wireless router with 2.4 Ghz frequency and I usually sit about 1 meter away from it for about 5 hours a day. It is on always. I'm not sure about the intensity. I can see the antenna from where I sit. Would you think it would be a health hazard?


BTW, your concern has to do with non-ionizing radiation. That in itself should tell you something.

So this type would only heat your body and not pose much risk?

Neverfly
2007-Aug-19, 03:49 PM
And you call yourself The Radiation Specialist! SHAME!:whistle:

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 03:54 PM
And you call yourself The Radiation Specialist! SHAME!

Ever been on a plane, Neverfly? :D

Neverfly
2007-Aug-19, 04:03 PM
Many times.
Actually I read an interesting article about how we are exposed to radiation at all times. From our housees, rocks, everything around us radiates on a small level.
It also mentioned that riding on airplanes ( With a saddle if you are from Texas) exposes a person to more radiation than the average person who rarely flies (with airplanes that is).

ETA: Neverfly comes form an old philosophy of mine about a person keeping their feet on the ground of reality... Just in case you misunderstood my name here...

Ronald Brak
2007-Aug-19, 04:55 PM
What we generally think of as dangerous radiation is ionizing radiation. Kinda like a lota little bullets shooting your cells. Microwave radiation is non ionizing. At the intensities used for household communicatin equipment it can at worst warm you up some tiny insignificant fraction of a degree. We know that levels below what is required to cook you aren't apparently harmful as radar technicians used to be exposed to large amounts of it without apparent harm. Some would even use the radar to warm themselves up when it was cold. Fortunately this nutty behaviour does not seem to have harmed them.

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 05:26 PM
Thanks Ronald, that was a very useful answer.


Some would even use the radar to warm themselves up when it was cold. Fortunately this nutty behaviour does not seem to have harmed them.


Why is it nutty if it doesn't harm you? what would be the idea of a miniature microwave emitting rays to keep you warmer by a fraction of a degree in very cold places? As far as I know slight changes in temperature in the body account can be felt...

Ronald Brak
2007-Aug-19, 05:42 PM
Why is it nutty if it doesn't harm you? what would be the idea of a miniature microwave emitting rays to keep you warmer by a fraction of a degree in very cold places? As far as I know slight changes in temperature in the body account can be felt...

In the developed world today it would be considered nutty because we have much higher safety standards than 60 years ago. The equipment in your house or your mobile phone can't warm you up enough for you to detect it, but a radar dish or a dish on a communication tower can put out enough power to warm you up.

Damburger
2007-Aug-19, 05:59 PM
I've no idea. I've never found a microwave big enough to fit a human in :(

Neverfly
2007-Aug-19, 06:06 PM
I've no idea. I've never found a microwave big enough to fit a human in :(

Predatorial:D

I got one for ya Damburger...

<slavers>

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 06:10 PM
Someone will probably be the first person to commit suicide by microwaving himself.

I wonder how it would feel...

Neverfly
2007-Aug-19, 06:12 PM
Probably pretty warm.

Ronald Brak
2007-Aug-19, 06:14 PM
I understand someone was caught in an industrial sized microwave at one point. I imagine it felt bad. Then there is the story of the technician who made a habit of sitting in front of a microwave relay tower dish to keep warm. Unfortunately one night the transmission power was boosted and he got cooked. (No idea if this is true or if it's just one of them urban legends.)

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 06:16 PM
Unfortunately one night the transmission power was boosted and he got cooked.
:lol:

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-19, 06:18 PM
Probably pretty warm.

Say that fast 10 times

Neverfly
2007-Aug-19, 06:26 PM
thatfastthatfastthatfastthatfastthatfastthatfastth atfastthatfastthatfastthatfast

Donnie B.
2007-Aug-19, 09:39 PM
Neverfly comes form an old philosophy of mine about a person keeping their feet on the ground of reality... Just in case you misunderstood my name here...Well, live and learn. I always thought it was some sort of insect. :doh:

JohnBStone
2007-Aug-19, 10:04 PM
Non lethal microwave weapons that heat up the skin above the pain threshold already exist - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System. Makes you feel like your skin is on fire without actually harming you - at least not without several minutes exposure. It is considered being used for crowd control - as it clears an area fast!

Sometimes referred to as Microwave Area Denial Systems (MADS) as they keep people out of the target area.

Paracelsus
2007-Aug-19, 10:09 PM
Here ya go :): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17692567&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


Although subjective symptoms may be produced in some sensitive individuals exposed to RFE, there were no straightforward differences in such symptoms between exposed and control subjects in most epidemiological and laboratory studies. Consistent, strong associations were not found for RFE exposure and adverse health effects. The majority of changes relating to each of the diseases or conditions were small and not significant. CONCLUSIONS: On the basis of previous reviews of older literature and the current review of recent literature, there is only weak evidence for a relationship between RFE and any endpoint studied (related to the topics above), thus providing at present no sufficient foundation for establishing RFE as a health hazard.

This kind of info is best searched for on Entrez Pubmed. Wikipedia is relatively worthless in these instances. Just do a search on 'microwave radiation'.

publiusr
2007-Aug-24, 07:11 PM
Non lethal microwave weapons that heat up the skin above the pain threshold already exist - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System.
Sometimes referred to as Microwave Area Denial Systems (MADS) as they keep people out of the target area.

Make your own.

Google POOR MAN'S RAY GUN

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Aug-24, 08:53 PM
Google POOR MAN'S RAY GUN

I don't think it would work.
1) Rays would spread unless you get very close
2) The victim would feel some heat prior passing out.
3) Carrying that much power. You may not get it from batteries.
4) No one has tried it successfully yet

mike alexander
2007-Aug-24, 09:32 PM
Modulated microwaves at the low end of the arbitrary cutoff (1GHz or a bit less) have been documented to cause a coma-like state in humans that can persist for hours, or until the bean dip runs out.

BigDon
2007-Aug-24, 10:14 PM
What we generally think of as dangerous radiation is ionizing radiation. Kinda like a lota little bullets shooting your cells. Microwave radiation is non ionizing. At the intensities used for household communicatin equipment it can at worst warm you up some tiny insignificant fraction of a degree. We know that levels below what is required to cook you aren't apparently harmful as radar technicians used to be exposed to large amounts of it without apparent harm. Some would even use the radar to warm themselves up when it was cold. Fortunately this nutty behaviour does not seem to have harmed them.


Whoa Nellie! Mr. Brak, I very seldom, if ever, have any reason to naysay you, (I think only one other time since I've been here and I kept it to myself 'cause I like you). But I think somebody is having you on. Big time. I have never met a radar tech who wasn't secretly terrified of being irradiated.

I was a fire control technician on the Tomcat. Awg-9 radars pump out 120kw (or more) of serious high freq radiation. At a half mile away the effect is very similar to an intense dose of ionizing radiation. First the poor guy doesn't realize he's already dead, 'cause he feels fine. As the hours begin to tick down, he starts getting queasy because his liver is no longer functioning. Toxic shock starts to set in from the death of the inner lining of his digestive system and then eight hours after the insult total nervious system collapse.

I've seen this happen first hand.

Somebody is lying to you sir.

Ronald Brak
2007-Aug-24, 10:40 PM
Whoa Nellie! Mr. Brak, I very seldom, if ever, have any reason to naysay you, (I think only one other time since I've been here and I kept it to myself 'cause I like you). But I think somebody is having you on. Big time. I have never met a radar tech who wasn't secretly terrified of being irradiated.

I was a fire control technician on the Tomcat. Awg-9 radars pump out 120kw (or more) of serious high freq radiation. At a half mile away the effect is very similar to an intense dose of ionizing radiation. First the poor guy doesn't realize he's already dead, 'cause he feels fine. As the hours begin to tick down, he starts getting queasy because his liver is no longer functioning. Toxic shock starts to set in from the death of the inner lining of his digestive system and then eight hours after the insult total nervious system collapse.

I've seen this happen first hand.

Somebody is lying to you sir.

I believe you on this, but my stories are of world war II vintage. Doesn't mean they're true, however.