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Glom
2007-Aug-25, 11:56 AM
Those of us who work in real heavy industry know we have to put up with a lot of crap regarding H&S rules. It's well intentioned to be sure, but the paperwork is damned annoying. There's risk assessments to do, permits to raise. You never see Geordi ticking off the permit before reversing the polarity. However, there are obvious cases of them failing to demonstrate a basic safety culture.

The example I just have is in 'The Mind's Eye' [TNG]. Data and Geordi were testing an apparent Starfleet issue phaser rifle that was illicitely given to Klingon rebels. The think that immedatiely comes to mind is that they were doing this test in Main Engineering. Aside from the fact that we wonder where all their science labs and workshops are, the major safety implication is them testing live directed energy weapons in the prescence of the friggin warp core. Lets just be thankful they pointed the gun away from the warp core.

There was no-one else in Main Engineering at the time, which could be used as evidence that announcements were made and barriers erected warning unauthorised personnel to keep out of this danger area though of course, we never saw any on screen so must assume they are around the corner. It's still a shame they don't put more effort into set dressing. Seeing a safety barrier erected at the entrance is the kind of little details that add depth to the production. Of course, assuming that barriers were there (which we must take as a leap of faith given there is no other precedent for this practice), it means no-one else has access to Main Engineering for engineering work.

Between firing tests, Geordi moves to chat with data and rest on the unit that receives the phaser pulse. In other words, he was standing in the direct line of fire of this live fire arm. Not sensible.

(Those suggesting that using Main Engineering to save on sets doesn't wash. Cargo bays are large blank slates for sets. Just add a bit of dressing from stock set pieces and you have a workshop for this testing.)

MG1962A
2007-Aug-25, 12:50 PM
Those of us who work in real heavy industry know we have to put up with a lot of crap regarding H&S rules. It's well intentioned to be sure, but the paperwork is damned annoying. There's risk assessments to do, permits to raise. You never see Geordi ticking off the permit before reversing the polarity. However, there are obvious cases of them failing to demonstrate a basic safety culture.

The example I just have is in 'The Mind's Eye' [TNG]. Data and Geordi were testing an apparent Starfleet issue phaser rifle that was illicitely given to Klingon rebels. The think that immedatiely comes to mind is that they were doing this test in Main Engineering. Aside from the fact that we wonder where all their science labs and workshops are, the major safety implication is them testing live directed energy weapons in the prescence of the friggin warp core. Lets just be thankful they pointed the gun away from the warp core.

There was no-one else in Main Engineering at the time, which could be used as evidence that announcements were made and barriers erected warning unauthorised personnel to keep out of this danger area though of course, we never saw any on screen so must assume they are around the corner. It's still a shame they don't put more effort into set dressing. Seeing a safety barrier erected at the entrance is the kind of little details that add depth to the production. Of course, assuming that barriers were there (which we must take as a leap of faith given there is no other precedent for this practice), it means no-one else has access to Main Engineering for engineering work.

Between firing tests, Geordi moves to chat with data and rest on the unit that receives the phaser pulse. In other words, he was standing in the direct line of fire of this live fire arm. Not sensible.

(Those suggesting that using Main Engineering to save on sets doesn't wash. Cargo bays are large blank slates for sets. Just add a bit of dressing from stock set pieces and you have a workshop for this testing.)


OMG you must be as anal retentive as me - When I saw that episode I was involved in OH&S myself, and thinking almost the same thing

tdvance
2007-Aug-25, 04:24 PM
Watching Star Wars again as an adult, I couldn't watch it without seeing all the security holes in the Death Star--enemy (to them) space craft approaches, so use tractor beam to bring them to a section NOT sealed off from the rest of the death star. A robot can access, and CONTROL, the death star's computer systems from any wall outlet. Putting a storm trooper uniform on gains you access anywhere. An never mind the direct opening from the reactor core that explodes when shot, to the outside space where it can be shot.

Of course, it's not just Star Wars--bad security happens everywhere (24? Bring the bad guys right into the classified area? Bring even good guys who are not cleared into the area and let them roam free without escort? or Star Treck TOS, letting guests roam free around the ship, visit engineering without escort, etc.)

Glom
2007-Aug-25, 04:43 PM
Watching Star Wars again as an adult, I couldn't watch it without seeing all the security holes in the Death Star--enemy (to them) space craft approaches, so use tractor beam to bring them to a section NOT sealed off from the rest of the death star.

On that note, it's also odd that the warp core dilithium chamber, being fed with antimatter, isn't behind some kind of blast wall. But that's a discussion long had (http://www.freedomforfission.org.uk/app/trek.html).

novaderrik
2007-Aug-25, 06:25 PM
the design of the death star and their security measures on board it is a testament to the arrogance of the Empire- no single little ship will be able to do any harm to such a mighty symbol of galactic power. and the Millenium falcon was thought to be un manned when they brought it in, if i remember correctly. but you'd think they would have had a security camera or something in the landing bay...
the Death Star engineers probably designed in safety measures around the reactor core, but greedy contractors, politicians, and military leaders decided to not put them in but told Palpatine that they were there to skim a few bucks for themselves. somehow, they managed to keep this hidden from Palpatine, since the second death star was even more poorly designed- instead of a meter wide photon torpedo (or whatever they called it) getting shot down a tube that was cleverly hidden out in the open at the end of a canyon that went around the entire equator of the space station, an ENTIRE FREIGHT SHIP with fighter escorts was able to fly into the reactor chamber at high speed, launch a missile at it, and fly AROUND it and out the same way they came in as it started to blow up..
as for the lack of basic safety in trek, that is a testament to the arrogance of Star Fleet officers thinking they can't get hurt doing anything, and the blind trust they put in things like force fields (testing a live weapon right next to the warp core)and the basic goodness in everyone's soul (letting strangers wander around the ship unescorted and unmonitored). they live in a universe where no one ever suffers, and technology- combined with whatever new radioactive subspace particle they happen to discover that week- will save you if you do get hurt.

Moose
2007-Aug-25, 07:04 PM
... And all of those bottomless pits and walkways strewn all over the place without even a lousy railing (Bespin excepting) to keep people with vertigo from getting disoriented and taking a long walk off a short gantry. Or stormtroopers with helmets that restrict peripheral vision for that matter...

... Lack of surge protection and ground fault interrupters to preserve the wiring from force lightning when Sith Lords get tetchy...

Swift
2007-Aug-25, 09:36 PM
... And all of those bottomless pits and walkways strewn all over the place without even a lousy railing (Bespin excepting) to keep people with vertigo from getting disoriented and taking a long walk off a short gantry. Or stormtroopers with helmets that restrict peripheral vision for that matter...

I think Will Smith made some comment about heights and the lack of railings when they were on top of the computer core in I, Robot. And its not like we are talking about a galaxy far, far away; I suspect OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) will still be around in 2025.

mr obvious
2007-Aug-25, 11:25 PM
the Death Star engineers probably designed in safety measures around the reactor core, but greedy contractors, politicians, and military leaders decided to not put them in but told Palpatine that they were there to skim a few bucks for themselves. somehow, they managed to keep this hidden from Palpatine, since the second death star was even more poorly designed- instead of a meter wide photon torpedo (or whatever they called it) getting shot down a tube that was cleverly hidden out in the open at the end of a canyon that went around the entire equator of the space station, an ENTIRE FREIGHT SHIP with fighter escorts was able to fly into the reactor chamber at high speed, launch a missile at it, and fly AROUND it and out the same way they came in as it started to blow up..
Not that I think the DS marks I or II were well designed, but to be fair, the second DS was not yet complete. There were probably structural incompletions everywhere, allowing for the entry and egress of the Falcon.

With respect to ST, the fundamental safety issues don't appear to have been appropriately vetted on the Enterprise (any generation), given how isolated the ship would be in general during its mission. Consoles exploding (no fuses or circuit breakers), safety malfunctions (holodecks, anyone?), presence of odd barriers (the horseshoe railing on Enterprise D, for instance, requiring Worf to run down the side and jump over it to defend the command crew - and for those who say, he could just fire from his station, the response is - only if the command crew knew to stay seated). :)

MG1962A
2007-Aug-26, 01:21 AM
I just wanna know how they stopped everyone being a porn star on the holodeck

Maksutov
2007-Aug-26, 08:45 AM
How do you know they didn't?

Ever notice that kind of crooked little smirk Picard always had?

There's a term for that kind of grin in the South...

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/566/iconwink6tn.gif

weatherc
2007-Aug-26, 12:57 PM
In his book The Dilbert Future, Scott Adams mentioned that a Star Trek style holodeck will be humankind's last invention. Once people can just escape into their own little fantasy world, no one will ever do anything useful again.

Swift
2007-Aug-26, 10:36 PM
In his book The Dilbert Future, Scott Adams mentioned that a Star Trek style holodeck will be humankind's last invention. Once people can just escape into their own little fantasy world, no one will ever do anything useful again.
And here I thought that was the internet. ;)

tdvance
2007-Aug-26, 11:40 PM
In his book The Dilbert Future, Scott Adams mentioned that a Star Trek style holodeck will be humankind's last invention. Once people can just escape into their own little fantasy world, no one will ever do anything useful again.

I recently wrote a (medium long) essay on that subject (titled "Galactic Colonies"--yes, one has a lot to do with the other!!!)--The Dilbert Future prediction might have been on my subconscious when I did that, though. Note--I don't predict that everybody will stop doing anything useful (though many will!).


http://astrosketches.info/wordpress/2007/06/24/galactic-colonies/ (http://astrosketches.info/wordpress/2007/06/24/galactic-colonies/)

AGN Fuel
2007-Aug-27, 04:02 AM
Better than Life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Than_Life)

Glom
2007-Aug-28, 07:40 AM
OMG! How bad is Sunshine? It appears that the computer is cooled by dipping it in vat of coolant. This vat is open and without any kind of railings, even chains. Early on, the tech drops a spanner in it and reaches in without PPE to fetch it almost injuring himself. Why is he not wearing PPE around it? It's a spacecraft FCOL! One suden burst of an attitude control thruster and he could be covered in coolant.

Of all the terrible science/engineering in this movie, this aspect is the worst.

MG1962A
2007-Aug-28, 06:56 PM
OMG! How bad is Sunshine? It appears that the computer is cooled by dipping it in vat of coolant. This vat is open and without any kind of railings, even chains. Early on, the tech drops a spanner in it and reaches in without PPE to fetch it almost injuring himself. Why is he not wearing PPE around it? It's a spacecraft FCOL! One suden burst of an attitude control thruster and he could be covered in coolant.

Of all the terrible science/engineering in this movie, this aspect is the worst.

LOL - I always thought the same about Event Horizon. Seriously where they TRYING send the crew insane? Who builds an engine like that - It screamed, I am evil I am gonna get you - Surely a splash of paint here and there to break up the decor a bit would have done the world of good

AGN Fuel
2007-Aug-30, 04:04 AM
LOL - I always thought the same about Event Horizon. Seriously where they TRYING send the crew insane? Who builds an engine like that - It screamed, I am evil I am gonna get you - Surely a splash of paint here and there to break up the decor a bit would have done the world of good

:lol: Sorry, just had a mental image of an interior decorator looking around going "we must have a potted plant here and some drapes & cushions - and would it hurt to maybe put a mirror on this wall to create a feeling of space...?"

MG1962A
2007-Aug-30, 09:48 AM
:lol: Sorry, just had a mental image of an interior decorator looking around going "we must have a potted plant here and some drapes & cushions - and would it hurt to maybe put a mirror on this wall to create a feeling of space...?"

OMG and the Feng Shui has to be just right - and a couple of cyrstals...here here.............and over here:lol:

Roy Batty
2007-Aug-30, 11:03 AM
I think The Event Horizon was designed by a certain Monty Python architect:

Mr Wiggin:
"Good morning, gentlemen. This is a twelve-storey block combining classical neo-Georgian features with the efficiency of modern techniques. The tenants arrive in the entrance hall here, and are carried along the corridor on a conveyor belt in extreme comfort and past murals depicting Mediterranean scenes, towards the rotating knives. The last twenty feet of the corridor are heavily soundproofed. The blood pours down these chutes and the mangled flesh slurps into these..." :D