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PeterFries
2007-Sep-07, 08:39 PM
Anyone here have a wild guess about a likely location for CNSA to decide on to place a manned moonbase?

Decayed Orbit
2007-Sep-07, 11:07 PM
Probably on the moon

<duck>

PeterFries
2007-Sep-07, 11:11 PM
Hmmm, maybe a better question is, "What would be the most logical place on the moon to put a base?" :lol:

Warren Platts
2007-Sep-07, 11:12 PM
Probably in the best places. The poles are interesting because of the lighting and the possible proximity of water ice. Another consideration might be that there's probably one or a few places on the Moon that take the bare minimum of delta-v to get from an equatorial Earth orbit to a landing spot on the Moon. Or one could pick a dramatic location like the center of Tycho Crater.

stutefish
2007-Sep-08, 12:33 AM
1. Ease of access. 2. Ease of communication. 3. Simplicity of design. 4. Availability of resources. 5. Scientific potential.

I'm not sure, but I think the current generation of heavy lift launch vehicles can provide ease of access to any point on the Moon. Obviously something on the near side would be easier to communicate with than something on the far side. I have no idea what kind of considerations would go into setting a threshold for "simplicity of design", but I'm sure there are some. As I understand it, the important resource is going to be sunlight; everything else will have to be brought over from Earth at this stage... except maybe water. Science potential seems to fall into two categories: the investigation of possible water at the poles, or the investigation of interesting geological features wherever they might be found.

Ronald Brak
2007-Sep-08, 01:42 AM
Anyone here have a wild guess about a likely location for CNSA to decide on to place a manned moonbase?

A movie studio in Vancouver?

Joke! Joke!

Warren Platts
2007-Sep-08, 01:49 AM
A movie studio in Vancouver?

:lol: Nice one. . .:lol:

Decayed Orbit
2007-Sep-08, 03:56 AM
Hmmm, maybe a better question is, "What would be the most logical place on the moon to put a base?" :lol:

Sorry. I knew it was wrong, and I did it anyway. :lol:


1. Ease of access. 2. Ease of communication. 3. Simplicity of design. 4. Availability of resources. 5. Scientific potential.

I'm not sure, but I think the current generation of heavy lift launch vehicles can provide ease of access to any point on the Moon. Obviously something on the near side would be easier to communicate with than something on the far side. I have no idea what kind of considerations would go into setting a threshold for "simplicity of design", but I'm sure there are some. As I understand it, the important resource is going to be sunlight; everything else will have to be brought over from Earth at this stage... except maybe water. Science potential seems to fall into two categories: the investigation of possible water at the poles, or the investigation of interesting geological features wherever they might be found.

For communications, if it were desirable to have the base on the far side for other reasons, would it be a big deal to build unmanned relay stations? I guess the main issue would be power, but they should be in sun half the time, so I'm thinking this would probably be a fairly minor issue in the grand scheme of things. Does that sound reasonable?

Ronald Brak
2007-Sep-08, 04:18 AM
Putting a base on the near side of the moon allows microwave power to be beamed to it from earth, eliminating the need to store power during the long lunar night.

A base at the lunar poles will require more fuel to get there and to leave than one closer to the lunar equator. Whether or not it is worth it depends on whether there is extractable ice at the poles and how much the equipment required to extract it would mass. Since a base near the equator is cheaper in the short term, that's maybe where it will be built. However, building a lander that can survive the temperature extremes of a lunar day and a lunar night will be difficult, but not impossible. It can be protected with a shade during the day and electrically heated at night.

PeterFries
2007-Sep-08, 06:48 AM
I was thinking a near-polar location probably makes sense, too, especially if there turned out to be any water ice lingering inside craters there...

Tycho's kind of a cool place to put it, if only because Tycho sounds kind of like "taikonaut" and because that's where Clarke/Kubrick put the monolith in 2001...

Thanks for the suggestions...

eburacum45
2007-Sep-08, 08:46 AM
I have some doubts about the existence of ice at the Moon's poles; Donald Campbell from Cornell Uni is of the opinion that the ice is elusive (see here)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061018150756.htm

In this fictional depiction of the future colonisation of the Moon,
http://www.orionsarm.com/worlds/Luna.html
I've placed most of the colonies on the maria-type terrain, as the maria rocks contain more thorium and other potentially useful elements.
See this map of thorium distribution;
http://www.lunarpedia.org/images/e/e7/TerranesTh.jpg

PeterFries
2007-Sep-08, 05:57 PM
I have some doubts about the existence of ice at the Moon's poles; Donald Campbell from Cornell Uni is of the opinion that the ice is elusive (see here)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061018150756.htm


Wow, hey, thanks! I missed those findings, somehow last year.

Ronald Brak
2007-Sep-09, 02:38 AM
I don't find it hard to believe there could be some small amount of ice in the regolith of areas of permenant shadow, but there is not good evidence for ice lakes.

But getting water from asteroids should be cheaper than launching it from earth. You'll just have to wait a while for your probes to return with it.