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tony873004
2007-Sep-18, 11:32 AM
By the size of the crater (30 meters wide x 6 meters deep), I'd be tempted to call it a small asteroid.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070918/sc_afp/peruhealthoffbeat

NEOWatcher
2007-Sep-18, 12:15 PM
By the size of the crater (30 meters wide x 6 meters deep), I'd be tempted to call it a small asteroid.

I would tend to put that one in the bad reporting thread.
A crater that size is one big story in itself.
And, there's no indication that anyone has any clue what could cause the illness?

Let's hope this is only a preliminary reporting problem. But; the fact that they already catagorized it "offbeat" (by the link), and it took 3 days for the story, tells me they are going to let it drop.

Gsquare
2007-Sep-18, 02:28 PM
By the size of the crater (30 meters wide x 6 meters deep), I'd be tempted to call it a small asteroid.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070918/sc_afp/peruhealthoffbeat


Yea, I saw that this morn....bad meteorite...making people sick...no donut for you.

Probably the Puruvian government testing out their latest chemical weapon. :D

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-18, 08:43 PM
A crater in a volcanic region? Strange odor, people getting ill? I know, it must be a meteorite!

Orion437
2007-Sep-18, 10:05 PM
http://forgetomori.com/2007/science/meteorite-makes-30-meter-crater-in-peru/

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/4719

Pictures of the impact and more info.

Orion437
2007-Sep-18, 10:08 PM
http://video.nbc11.com/player/?id=157540

Video.

Orion437
2007-Sep-18, 10:18 PM
Villagers fall ill after fireball hits Peru

Radio reports that fumes from meteorite crater have sickened 600

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20838944/

R.A.F.
2007-Sep-18, 10:35 PM
Why is it that in all the pictures the "crater" just doesn't look like it is 30 meters across?

...and where did the water come from...is it ground water?

...and how could this make 600 people sick...I'm guessing perhaps mass psychosis?

As you can tell, I think that there's something really "fishy" about all this.

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-18, 10:50 PM
Gas explosion?

Did anyone actually see anything to fall?

jlhredshift
2007-Sep-18, 11:05 PM
Well, I guess we can say the scene has been contaminated. The people were throwing rocks into the water. Let's get a backhoe and dig out whatever is there and get it to a lab.

jami cat
2007-Sep-18, 11:17 PM
Hey look...A hole, from a meteor strike...

But wait, it's not only just a Hole from a meteor strike...

It's a Hole from a meteor strike filled with stinky space water...

Hey look...theres something moving under the water...

Quick, everyone grab a Rock and kill it...

Orion437
2007-Sep-18, 11:26 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/science/newsid_7000000/7000760.stm

A BBC link, the most respected source that i´ve found about this.

R.A.F.
2007-Sep-19, 12:01 AM
A BBC link, the most respected source that i´ve found about this.

Thanks for the link...at least in this picture "it" looks to be closer to 30 meters across.

Now that I'm looking again at the first picture that Orion posted, and it doesn't look like a impact crater so much as it looks like a hole someone dug in the ground.

I know looks can deceive, but shouldn't there be a raised rim of some sort? The "crater" appears to be level with the surrounding terrain, which somehow doesn't seem "right".

Gsquare
2007-Sep-19, 12:06 AM
Apparently they think it was a chondrite.

I guess it could have contained a appreciable amount of sulfur (or iron sulfide) which turns to sulfuric acid in highly heated water....hmmm.

Quite interesting.


Another report states that "the animals aren't eating" (apparently they are more cautious than humans ;)) "and the humans are stuttering".

Yep that's a sure sign its a meteorite alright. :D

Orion437
2007-Sep-19, 01:01 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7001897.stm

The BBC article, in english.

EDG
2007-Sep-19, 01:45 AM
Well apparently it's confirmed to be a Chondrite...
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4730-environmentnature-scientist-confirms-meteorite-in-puno-peru-is-a-chondrite

Maybe it broke through to a water layer with nasty volcanic gas dissolved in it?

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-19, 08:19 AM
Well, that's interesting if true.

JonClarke
2007-Sep-19, 08:51 AM
My first thought was that it was a small volcanic eruption. But given the fact that people did see a fireball and a large expolsion, and there mass been no follow up activity, plus the supposed chondritic fragments, then it may be a small imact. There certainly is a raised rim.

Some metorites, especially the carbaonceous ones, contain minerals that are reactive in water, that might explain the smell. Also if the grounfwater was rich indissolved H2S you could get some noxious gasses too.

Remember we have neve been up close with an impact this size before so soon after it happened. It took days if not weeks to get to the Sikote Alin site.

It's very interesting whatever it is.

R.A.F.
2007-Sep-19, 11:42 AM
There certainly is a raised rim.


Well apparently it's confirmed to be a Chondrite...
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4730-environmentnature-scientist-confirms-meteorite-in-puno-peru-is-a-chondrite

Now in the picture from this link, there does seem to be a bit of a raised rim...also it has now shrunk from 30 to 17 meters across.

Gsquare
2007-Sep-19, 12:01 PM
Some metorites, especially the carbaonceous ones, contain minerals that are reactive in water, that might explain the smell. Also if the grounfwater was rich indissolved H2S you could get some noxious gasses too.

.


That's the point I brought up in my previous post ...chondrites can be sulfur rich which could form sulfuric acid upon heat + water. Volcanism isn't required.
Definitely can make one sick.




.

Sticks
2007-Sep-19, 12:33 PM
Could this be as mundane as the result of a commercial airliner with a leaky toilet dropping some "green ice?

NEOWatcher
2007-Sep-19, 12:52 PM
Could this be as mundane as the result of a commercial airliner with a leaky toilet dropping some "green ice?
Not with a crater, and fireball.

Anyway, CNN's story (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/09/19/peru.meteorite.ap/index.html) is marginally better, and they have a picture of a crater.

Doodler
2007-Sep-19, 02:26 PM
A crater in a volcanic region? Strange odor, people getting ill? I know, it must be a meteorite!

That was my first thought too, though if it was a meteor, it is possible that the massive disruption of volcanic ground released quite a bit of otherwise contained noxious crap skyward, resulting in the sicknesses.

Fazor
2007-Sep-19, 02:34 PM
That was my first thought too, though if it was a meteor, it is possible that the massive disruption of volcanic ground released quite a bit of otherwise contained noxious crap skyward, resulting in the sicknesses.
Yeah, but I bet the actual cases of sickness are much less numerous than the report. I suspect, as was already mentioned, a lot of it is a simple case of mass psychosis. Group hypochondria.

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-19, 02:36 PM
If they have found actual meteorites, the case is settled and the people have witnessed a truly incredible event. However, this whole story sounds so odd that I'm not convinced yet.

PS. A news piece of my local astronomy association tells that the vulcanologist who said it's a chondrite meteor is not a meteor specialist. It requires a meteor specialist to definitely confirm it is a true meteor.

Orion437
2007-Sep-19, 09:41 PM
Oh my God...

Andrea Thompson
Staff Writer
SPACE.com Wed Sep 19, 2:00 PM ET

Scientists Doubt Meteorite Striked in Peru (http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20070919/sc_space/scientistsdoubtmeteoritesickenedperuvians)


By MONTE HAYES, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 21 minutes ago

Experts confirm meteorite crash in Peru (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_sc/peru_meteorite;_ylt=AnuaCORKTrqndUqwDI.0uoX737YB)


Peru: Doctors Aid in Rising Number of Illnesses after Meteorite Crash (http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4732-environmentnature-medical-teams-aid-in-rising-number-of-illnesses-after-meteorite-crash)

Jens
2007-Sep-20, 01:36 AM
If they have found actual meteorites, the case is settled and the people have witnessed a truly incredible event.

Just a really naive question, but even assuming it was a meteorite, is this really so incredible? Doesn't the earth get struck by a number of meteorites like this every year? Or is the size of the crater (about 20 meters across) really extraordinary?

DaveC426913
2007-Sep-20, 01:57 AM
The water is surely indicative of the local water table and rainwater.

I have a hard time believing that a meteor small enough to make that crater would release enough SO2 to make that many people ill in the open air.

Parsec.au
2007-Sep-20, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
Could this be as mundane as the result of a commercial airliner with a leaky toilet dropping some "green ice?





Not with a crater, and fireball.



Well, I don't know, could depend on what they served for lunch.

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-20, 10:01 AM
Just a really naive question, but even assuming it was a meteorite, is this really so incredible? Doesn't the earth get struck by a number of meteorites like this every year? Or is the size of the crater (about 20 meters across) really extraordinary?

Meteors usually burn in the atmosphere and those who fall down come at the terminal velocity. At that speed the meteorite creates only a small hole in the ground is soft, not a crater. Such events are relatively common. But actual impact crater forming events are much rarer: it has been sixty years from the last time a new impact crater was documented (in Sikhote-Alin near Vladivostok, Russia).

Regarding this Peruvian event, it seems more and more likely that the hole is terrestrial origin.

Launch window
2007-Sep-20, 06:27 PM
It's been covered on the spoof

Peru Attacked by Pluto (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i24866)

Putin said he had an alibi. (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i24840)

:D

Neverfly
2007-Sep-20, 06:48 PM
I had thought the bugs did it actually.

We need Zim to go capture that brain bug.

danscope
2007-Sep-20, 06:56 PM
Sgt. Zim will do the job!!! Nw, there's a good man.

Robert Heinlein ..'Starship Troopers' . A pity more people haven't read the book. A great insight into what it means to be a Veteran, and a Citizen and the value of the Soverign franchise.
Best regards, Dan

Swift
2007-Sep-20, 08:18 PM
From the article.

"We are not completely certain that there was no contamination," Mechare said.

I hope that sounded better in Spanish. ;)


But a team of doctors sent to the isolated site, 3½ hours travel from the state capital of Puno, said they found no evidence the meteorite had sickened people, the Lima newspaper El Comercio reported Wednesday. See where the meteorite landed »

Modesto Montoya, a member of the team, was quoted as saying doctors also had found no sign of radioactive contamination among families living nearby, but had taken blood samples from 19 people to be sure.

He said fear may have provoked psychosomatic ailments.

As Fazor also said, I suspect psychosomatic or some sort of mass hysteria.

Jerry
2007-Sep-20, 08:35 PM
Mass hysteria is very appropriate when a chunk of space THAT big splats in your neighborhood, raining dirt clouds and dingleberries. It might even drag a few Hail Mary's outta me.

Neverfly
2007-Sep-20, 08:39 PM
Is an impact scary?

http://www.killsometime.com/Video/video.asp?ID=322

Sticks
2007-Sep-21, 05:19 AM
Is an impact scary?

http://www.killsometime.com/Video/video.asp?ID=322


That was an advert for a truck

I think it has been already discussed here. Any hue, according to Phill, it may have been a scud missile

Jens
2007-Sep-21, 07:45 AM
Sgt. Zim will do the job!!! Nw, there's a good man.


This is completely off topic, but I was thinking about Starship Troopers yesterday. I remember seeing a poster or something for the movie that showed a helmet pierced by a bug's (or whatever you call them) leg (or whatever you call it!) Does anybody else remember that? Maybe it was from the trailer or something.

NEOWatcher
2007-Sep-21, 12:00 PM
That was an advert for a truck
I think it has been already discussed here...
Ad Nauseum (if you excuse the pun)

Anyway, they were checking people for radiation? I didn't notice them saying anywere that there was radiation present.

John Kierein
2007-Sep-21, 04:34 PM
They need to save the water. Some of it could be from the comet itself and other stuff could be dissolved in it. It should be analyzed including looking for the ratio of heavy water to normal water. The tendency will be to just pump out the water and discard it.

ToSeek
2007-Sep-21, 09:09 PM
Meteorite likely caused crater in Peru (http://fe7.news.re3.yahoo.com/s/ap/peru_meteorite;_ylt=AsU2OF4h91hVBXHdD_kthJnlWMcF)


Peruvian astronomers said Thursday that evidence shows a meteorite crashed near Lake Titicaca over the weekend, leaving an elliptical crater and magnetic rock fragments in an impact powerful enough to register on seismic charts.

As other astronomers learned more details, they too said it appears likely that a legitimate meteorite hit Earth on Saturday — an rare occurence.

But the BA has another theory (http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/09/20/meteorite-mayhem-part-ii-maybe-missile-mayhem/):


But this one, maybe, has an even weirder explanation! In the newsgroup sci.space.history is a thread discussing this Peruvian event. One of the participants, Pat Flannery, has come up with a very interesting suggestion: this was no space rock, it was a Scud missile gone awry.

Neverfly
2007-Sep-22, 04:50 AM
Sticks toseeked ToSeek


I think it has been already discussed here. Any hue, according to Phill, it may have been a scud missile

JonClarke
2007-Sep-23, 05:12 AM
Any hue, according to Phill, it may have been a scud missile


I think that's a fairly silly suggestion. There is no hard evidence that Peru actualkly has any Scuds, and, even they do have them, where are the missile fragments?

I still go for a large meteorite as the most likely explanation, followed by small phreato-magmatic event.

Jon

Tube
2007-Sep-23, 07:47 PM
I vote space junk, as Devo's prescient lyrics from 1978 indicate:

"it's falling fast Peru too"...

JonClarke
2007-Sep-24, 11:35 AM
I vote space junk, as Devo's prescient lyrics from 1978 indicate:

"it's falling fast Peru too"...

Samples have been recovered indicating high iron content http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4758-environmentnature-astrophysicist-in-peru-identifies-properties-in-meteorite . I suggest it's now 99% certain this was a meteorite impact, the first crater known to have formed since Sikhote Alin in 1947.

Jon

Trantor
2007-Sep-24, 02:29 PM
Isn't Lake Titicaca a UFO base of operations.
Engine trouble perhaps?

JonClarke
2007-Sep-24, 10:28 PM
So the largest known impact in 60 years is ignored and/or trivialised because it happened in Peru? Next time it should land in Idaho. Maybe then it would get the attention it deserves.

Jon

Neverfly
2007-Sep-25, 03:38 AM
So the largest known impact in 60 years is ignored and/or trivialised because it happened in Peru? Next time it should land in Idaho. Maybe then it would get the attention it deserves.

Jon

Nevada;)

R.A.F.
2007-Sep-25, 04:26 PM
So the largest known impact in 60 years is ignored and/or trivialised because it happened in Peru?

No...as I posted on the BA's BLOG, I'd just like to see a picture (perhaps with people standing at the rim) so I could judge how big this "crater" is.

If that seems unreasonable, then simply look at all of the different pictures taken of the "crater" and tell me "how big it is". I know I can't, and that (to me) seems very odd.

NEOWatcher
2007-Sep-25, 04:38 PM
No...as I posted on the BA's BLOG, I'd just like to see a picture (perhaps with people standing at the rim) so I could judge how big this "crater" is.
ToSeeks' link has an image show with at least one picture with somebody standing at the rim.

Although, for the most part, the wide angle view on all the others does make things quite misleading.

m1omg
2007-Sep-25, 06:48 PM
Are there no green crystal around the impact site.At first I tought as a C&C fan that it must be a a tiberium meteor!That would alsob explain the sickness!Look how smart I am:lol:!

R.A.F.
2007-Sep-25, 06:59 PM
ToSeeks' link has an image show with at least one picture with somebody standing at the rim.

Are you talking about this (http://fe7.news.re3.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/091907meteoriteperu/im:/070919/photos_hl_afp/de11016d76002a80e48d0d9ba7d81249;_ylt=AtbOl9sc8EYV 8Yc9nb8.FPJgWscF) picture??

If so, how can you tell that they are actually standing "at" the rim? From what I can see, they could be standing 20/30 feet beyond it, and the photographer just "lined it up" to make it appear that they are "on the rim".

I'll admit it "looks" like they are at the rim, however keeping in mind all of the different (and in my opinion, purposefully deceptive) pictures I have looked at, and adding to that the fact that this whole thing has "smelt wrong" from the beginning, and I just really want to know that what I'm "suppose" to be seeing is actually what is there.

In other words, I'm still waiting for a "definitive" picture...hopefully it will "show up" within the next few days. :)

JonClarke
2007-Sep-25, 09:42 PM
I'll admit it "looks" like they are at the rim, however keeping in mind all of the different (and in my opinion, purposefully deceptive) pictures I have looked at...

What makes you think the photos are purposely deceptive?


and adding to that the fact that this whole thing has "smelt wrong" from the beginning, and I just really want to know that what I'm "suppose" to be seeing is actually what is there.

What smells wrong to you?

Jon

R.A.F.
2007-Sep-25, 10:07 PM
What makes you think the photos are purposely deceptive?

Some of the pictures make the "crater" look gigantic, while others make it look small. They seem to have a problem (and they shouldn't have) taking a decent picture of the thing. That in and of itself is causing me to think that there is a reason why no decent pictures have been taken. On the BA's BLOG, another poster mentioned the "hogzilla" incident....where forced persective was used to make a hog appear larger than it actually was. Right now, I have no way of knowing that this isn't what's being done with this crater.

Like I said...I'm waiting for a "decent" picture to settle this.


What smells wrong to you?

The crater just looks "wrong". I don't know how else to put it. I guess it's "look" could be because it came in awfully "slow", but...it just looks wrong. :)

JonClarke
2007-Sep-25, 11:23 PM
It would be good to get more decent photos for sure. from experience it is actually quite hard to get decent photos of small craters, It's possible that some these are cropped telephoto images, that might explain some the apparently forced perspectives.

Some good measurements would be desirable too. The crater has been variously quoted as 30 m across and 6 m deep and 17 m across and 5 metres deep. Both are reasonable in siuze and proportion for a small impact. the crater has a rim (best seen the in video, and both the rim and the crater are composed of brecciated material. This is what you would expect from an impact.

Another thing worth mentioning is the shallow groundwater, the water table is only 3-4 m below the surface, judging by the photos. With the a capillary fringe another 50 cm above that it means that much of the crater has been excavated out of wet, or at least moist material. There have have already been some modification of crater form through slumping.

The video shows shome white coatings on the ejecta. This is consistent in colour and distribution with impact glass. It would be nice if this could be confirmed. (or disproved)

Jon

eburacum45
2007-Sep-26, 07:05 AM
With the crater filled with groundwater, how would José Isitsuka have obtained a sample of the meteorite? Would a small portion have been ejected during the impact, or did someone slub around at the bottom of the crater?

The first meteoric crater since 1947 is a remarkable event, if true; and it looks like it may well be. However the reports of illness associated with the fall are almost certainly hysteria.

JonClarke
2007-Sep-26, 08:45 AM
With the crater filled with groundwater, how would José Isitsuka have obtained a sample of the meteorite? Would a small portion have been ejected during the impact, or did someone slub around at the bottom of the crater?

The meteorite will disintegrate into many small fragments which will be scattered across a wide area. This is what happened at Sikhote-Alin and also Wabar, Henbury, and other small impacts. You can buy fragments of these meteorites on the internet as a result.



The first meteoric crater since 1947 is a remarkable event, if true; and it looks like it may well be. However the reports of illness associated with the fall are almost certainly hysteria.

Quite probably. If something that large fell near me I would probably be a bit neurotic as well!

However, if the groundwater was rich in arsenic, there is the possibility of arsenine being released. If the meteorite was a carbonaceous chondrite there is the possibility of hydrogen cyanide and hydrogen sulphide being produced. So I would not completely rule it out. reemember, we have not been this close to an impact before. As I recall it was some weeks after event that the first ground parties reached the Sikhote Alin site because of its remoteness, although it had been spotted from the air within a few hours.

Jon

JonClarke
2007-Sep-26, 11:57 AM
For comparison, here are some photos of the Sikhote-Alin craters http://www.spacerocksinc.com/SIKHOTE-ALINFALL_PAGE3.html

John Kierein
2007-Sep-26, 12:51 PM
Maybe the arenic comes from gallium arsenide solar panels superheated by re-entry. or not.

JonClarke
2007-Sep-26, 09:05 PM
I don't think anyone has direct evidence for arsenic. It is just one possible physical explanation for the reported illness. Andean waters are often high in arsenic because of leaching of hydrothermal deposits. But it is a hypothesis only. I suspect that the most likely cause of illness is the shock of having something like this come down in your back yard.

There is no evidence that this is a satellite reentry. No fragments of machined alloys mentioned. There are reports of chrondritic material and metallic iron. All evidence for a meteorite.

Jon

stellark
2007-Sep-27, 10:55 AM
Has there been any more news on this? Any consensus on what landed and what caused the mass illness? Seems very odd.

Orion437
2007-Sep-27, 10:46 PM
I don't think anyone has direct evidence for arsenic. It is just one possible physical explanation for the reported illness. Andean waters are often high in arsenic because of leaching of hydrothermal deposits. But it is a hypothesis only. I suspect that the most likely cause of illness is the shock of having something like this come down in your back yard.

There is no evidence that this is a satellite reentry. No fragments of machined alloys mentioned. There are reports of chrondritic material and metallic iron. All evidence for a meteorite.

Jon

But a bull died and several farm animals were reported as being sick.

How could a shock make a bull die and animals get sick?

Sorry for my english.

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-28, 11:17 AM
I've been following a discussion on the subject on the Minor Planets Mailing List. Apparently people did see a bright fireball (it was day) and heard an explosion (sonic boom?). A member of the Geological Society of Canada visited the impact site and reported that the ground where the meteor hit consists of clays that could have smelled very unpleasant if the groundwater was boiling. Also, a 20 cm fragment of a metallic meteorite may have been recovered.

Fazor
2007-Sep-28, 03:12 PM
But a bull died and several farm animals were reported as being sick.

How could a shock make a bull die and animals get sick?

Sorry for my english.

We have bulls 'round these parts die all the time, and animals also get sick quite frequently (that's why there's so many vetrenary offices).

Are you willing to say you're certian that the deaths and illness of the animals was dirrectly caused by the event, and that their deaths are inconsistant with natural animal health?

KaiYeves
2007-Sep-29, 12:12 AM
Are you willing to say you're certian that the deaths and illness of the animals was dirrectly caused by the event, and that their deaths are inconsistant with natural animal health?
Reminds me of the story about the Rabbi who told one of his congregation "I've heard funny noises in the cellar of our community hall and Ms. So-and-so's leg is broken, so I'm going to come visit her." They told their friends, who told their friends, and soon the story was that there was a monster in the community hall basement that had broken Ms. So-and-so's leg. People love to combine disparate facts to make a good story.

Kullat Nunu
2007-Sep-29, 11:16 AM
Official report of the fall is available here (http://www.ingemmet.gob.pe/paginas/pl01_quienes_somos.aspx?opcion=320).

JonClarke
2007-Sep-30, 12:33 PM
But a bull died and several farm animals were reported as being sick.

How could a shock make a bull die and animals get sick?



Animals can get stressed by loud and suden noises. This can cause ill health and death in extreme cases. And this was an exceptionally loud noise and associated shock wave.

Jon

Neverfly
2007-Oct-01, 03:13 AM
Is it really unthinkable that the impact had a resultant chemical reaction or fumes that wafted over the people and animals?
Is there any evidence of anything like that?

Would we know if there had been such but it left no real measurable trace?

I find the idea of any spacebourn bug highly unlikely, but that a chemical reaction from the impact that made noxious fumes seems plausible.

NEOWatcher
2007-Oct-01, 02:52 PM
Official report of the fall is available here (http://www.ingemmet.gob.pe/paginas/pl01_quienes_somos.aspx?opcion=320).
Even that is over a week old, and does not indicate any clues as to the ailments (they were being investigated at the time)
Although, they do say that the reports were exaggerated.

I wonder if we will ever learn if there is any relation. Unless the meteor itself contained "bad stuff", then I doubt any findings will be reported, or more appropriately, hype detracted.

vonmazur
2007-Oct-01, 10:13 PM
According to Linda Molton Howe, it was the arsenic in the water...But to get the whole story from her site, one has to pay.....Just like the "Rush Limbaugh-UFO-Alien-CapeGirardeau Mo"-story.....She has spheres of brass or some other similar alloy to ask for money to read the baloney, and then the one time she actually decides to print the truth, it costs!!!

Dale in Ala

ToSeek
2007-Oct-11, 08:43 PM
Sparks fly over meteorite (http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/10/406411.aspx)


It's a story worthy of an "Indiana Jones" sequel: Drawn by outlandish legends, a controversial collector journeys to Peru, purchases pieces of a rare meteorite under shady circumstances, then has to hightail it across the border to Bolivia with police in hot pursuit. Now the plot is nearing its resolution - and the finale could make another meteorite-size splash.

"It's been quite an interesting week for me," Michael Farmer told me today from his home in Arizona. "I did have to make my escape, that's for sure. ... Another day in the life of a meteorite hunter."

R.A.F.
2007-Oct-11, 09:55 PM
Finally a picture is published that gives a better idea of the craters actual size.

01101001
2007-Nov-11, 10:38 PM
Sparks fly over meteorite (http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/10/406411.aspx)

Fallout...

Living in Peru: Villagers in Puno, Peru Guard Meteorite and Keep Scientists from Studying the Area (http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4953-environmentnature-villagers-puno-peru-guard-meteorite-keep-scientists-from-studying-area) (October 23)


[Regional Geology Director] Núñez explained that the townspeople were treating the crater as a "treasure which had to be protected day and night," explaining that they feared losing fragments of the meteorite.

Núñez affirmed that this behavior was only getting in the way of scientists which were attempting to study the meteorite.
[...]
It was reported that Farmer paid villagers US$1000 for 300 grams of the meteorite. Since then, 400 locals have organized themselves into two groups which guard the crater day and night. Núñez has stated that the situation in Puno, Peru is "very tense."

And, preserving a mud pit:

Living in Peru: Meteorite Crater in Puno, Peru to be a Tourist Attraction (http://www.livinginperu.com/news/5038)


[Regional President] Fuentes told Andina News Agency that the regional government had designed a project with several stages in which the crater would be preserved and turned into a tourist attraction. The first stage is to take approximately 30 days and will focus on preserving the crater itself.

publiusr
2007-Dec-14, 07:41 PM
I wonder if this was the teton events last lap. Poor meteor.

Kaptain K
2007-Dec-14, 09:00 PM
I wonder if this was the teton events last lap. Poor meteor.
:think: Huh? :think:

Sticks
2007-Dec-14, 10:10 PM
I wonder if this was the teton events last lap. Poor meteor.

Why are you resurrecting old threads that had long since died? :confused:

publiusr
2007-Dec-14, 10:43 PM
I just noticed the story. Too bad it didn't come down in the beltway.

01101001
2008-Mar-12, 09:07 PM
Thread revived for news.

National Geographic: "Giant Fireball" Impact in Peru Upends Meteorite Theory (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080311-peru-meteor.html)


A meteorite that smacked into the Peruvian highlands last September may have punched holes into long-held theories about how such meteorites, called chondrites, interact with Earth's atmosphere.
[...]
Yet "the [Peruvian] meteorite kept on going at a speed about 40 to 50 times faster than it should have been going," defying the theory, [Brown University's Peter] Schultz said.

In fact it came down intact as a giant fireball at about 15,000 miles (about 24,000 kilometers) an hour, creating a 50-foot-deep (15-meter-deep) crater.
[...]
"Rather than flying apart," he told National Geographic News, "[perhaps] it shaped into a needle and pierced the atmosphere."
[...]
Regardless of what happened, Schultz wants to see the crater protected for future research.

Horse's mouth, Brown University press release: Brown Scientist Answers How Peruvian Meteorite Made It to Earth (http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2007-08/07-113.html)

Gsquare
2008-Mar-13, 03:58 AM
Here's a good follow up wth more details of how a stony can survive ...and a picture of a simulated test.

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13453-swarm-of-meteorites-may-solve-peru-impact-mystery.html

The researchers shot glass beads a few millimetres across from a gun at speeds of up to several kilometres per second through the air.

......

.... when the team simulated higher speeds by increasing the ambient air pressure, the surrounding shock wave was strong enough to act as a barrier, preventing the fragments from dispersing and keeping them flying in a dense swarm instead.

In the tests, these swarms still packed enough punch to produce craters, so Schultz and his colleagues think such a swarm from a shattered stony meteorite could be responsible for the Carancas crater." "


Oh, and here's a great site showing the path the meteorite took with a map of the terrain....elevation 3800 meters! {Possibly the high elevation prevented further erosion - (my opinion).}

Also a PHOTO of the contrail taken by a kid who witnessed it.

And a great close up of the crater.

SEE HERE: http://www.meteoriteguy.com/carancasfall.htm


G^2

Gigabyte
2008-Jul-11, 09:34 PM
What ever happened to the meteorite?

01101001
2008-Jul-11, 10:42 PM
What ever happened to the meteorite?

Fragments must have been recovered, for its type was determined. The article above, about the surprise of its having reached the ground, talks as if if may well have broken up and hit the ground as pieces.

(Expedition tale and fragment pictures at Meteoriteguy site (http://www.meteoriteguy.com/carancasfallexpedition2.htm))

If the article reproduced in this blog is right, the pieces may be unrecoverable: Fireballs and Meteorites - SOTT.NET 2008 March 3 (http://fireballs-meteorites.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-2008.html)


Sadly, the meteorite, or what remains of it, may never be recovered. Chondrites tend to ionize and dissolve in water, and as I write this, the rainy season is arriving in southeastern Peru.

I'm finding it hard to find out about eventual results on the Web because so many fanciful recounts of the meteorite were generated when it hit. I may try later by focusing on meteor experts.

01101001
2008-Jul-12, 11:48 PM
LPI 2008: PETROLOGY OF EJECTA FROM THE CARANCAS (PERU) CRATER: INSIGHTS INTO THE DYNAMICS OF AN “UNUSUAL” IMPACT EVENT (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/acm2008/pdf/8302.pdf) R. S. Harris, P. H. Schultz, et al (PDF)


Field Observations: [...] The exposed “underbellies”
of some blocks are riddled with embedded fragments
of the impactor (Fig. 1). This observation suggests that
the bolide fragmented and dispersed

LPI 2008: PRELIMINARY PETROLOGIC ANALYSIS OF IMPACT DEFORMATION IN THE CARANCAS (PERU) CRATERING EVENT (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/2446.pdf) R. S. Harris, P. H. Schultz, et al (PDF)


The implantation or injection of impactor fragments
into strata that were derived from beneath the
pre-impact surface supports the hypothesis that the
bolide was competent and largely intact when it struck
the ground. The impactor likely fragmented and dispersed
a few decimeters beneath the surface just ahead
of the affected sediments peeling back and being
thrown from the crater.

Wikipedia: Carancas impact event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Peruvian_meteorite_event) (with, of course, lots of links)


The official classification of the Carancas meteorite, accepted by the Meteoritical Society[17] was done by a team of scientist working at the University of Arizona. The meteorite is an ordinary chondrite, an H chondrite breccia, containing clasts of petrologic types 4 to 5. The formal classification is H4-5. The meteoroid had experienced a considerable amount of shock before its ultimate encounter with Earth. Further results are expected, and material is also going to be studied by NASA, British and Japanese researchers according to media reports.

Niger-Meteorite-Recon: Carancas (http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite_carancas.htm) has pictures of some fragments, largest 350 g.