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bmpbmp
2007-Sep-25, 11:36 AM
Hi everyone I have a few questions and somene please correct me if I am wrong.

1- The LHC was started being built in 2002 and has now been delayed till april or may 2008 - Right

2- Now it was delayed due to flawed designes. But My question is after all this time why did the flaws only get realized now I mean when the plans were drawn werent they noticed?

Thank You

Laguna
2007-Sep-25, 11:53 AM
1. I think if they would have noticed them, they would have fixed the flaws instead of spending millions of ...

2. The flawed magnets came from fermilab and where not designed by the LHC crew

MG1962A
2007-Sep-25, 11:53 AM
Obviously you would think so. History, however says otherwise. Sometimes it really is a case of suck it and see. My favorite example of this is the launching of the Great Eastern. In theory she should have slid into the Thames and begin her life as a ship. Six months later they still trying to get her into the water.

Eventually, after much nashing of teeth, they got her in the water.

bmpbmp
2007-Sep-25, 11:55 AM
Hi Laguna

But am I right with the dates April - May 2008, I also read another article that said 3 year delay but I think it was an April fools joke

Laguna
2007-Sep-25, 11:57 AM
CERN says go in May 2008.

http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2007/PR06.07E.html

However it is already partly cooled down and the first parts of the LHC will be powered up during the winter.

EDIT: BTW, why does this belong in ATM?

bmpbmp
2007-Sep-25, 12:03 PM
what does it mean being cooled down in the winter what does that do,

Don't the tests start is may 2008

Laguna
2007-Sep-25, 12:14 PM
Parts of the LHC have already been cooled down.
They need the magnets to be cooled to a temperature of 1.9 K (-271.3C) to make them superconducting.
Further parts will be cooled down in the continuing progress of installing the last parts of the LHC and before powering them up.

EDIT: I have to add, that at the moment they are in the phase of pre-cooling. At the moment they are operating the cooled parts at -193.16 C

bmpbmp
2007-Sep-25, 12:18 PM
ok I get it.

But the actual tests are sceduled for May 08 unless delayed again right

Laguna
2007-Sep-25, 12:23 PM
ok I get it.

But the actual tests are sceduled for May 08 unless delayed again right
In May 2008 the first runs of the LHC are planned.
"Beams will be injected at low energy and low intensity to give the operations team experience in driving the new machine. Intensity and energy will then slowly be increased."
High energy beam tests are not to be expected before Summer/Fall 2008

Eta C
2007-Sep-25, 12:29 PM
BMP,

The LHC will turn on when it turns on. When it does so the world will not come to an end.

Laguna,

While it's true that the flawed magnets were designed at Fermilab, it is incorrect to say that they were not designed by the LHC crew. Those magnets were an integral part of the LHC and the FNAL group working on them was part of the greater LHC design team. It's as much CERN's fault as FNAL's for allowing the faulty design to be built.

As the LHC moves along it will be the only large accelerator lab in the world as FNAL and SLAC slowly shut down. As a result, pretty much every particle physicist in the world will be involved in an experiment there. All of the experiments are international collaborations that involve US universities as well as European and Asian ones. I know, for instance, that parts of the Atlas detector are being built by the group I used to work with at Illinois (http://web.hep.uiuc.edu/Atlas/). So even though it's located in Switzerland, it would be incorrect to call it a purely European endeavor.

Laguna
2007-Sep-25, 12:47 PM
BMP,

While it's true that the flawed magnets were designed at Fermilab, it is incorrect to say that they were not designed by the LHC crew. Those magnets were an integral part of the LHC and the FNAL group working on them was part of the greater LHC design team. It's as much CERN's fault as FNAL's for allowing the faulty design to be built.

I stand corrected.
I thought they where an already existing design.
Nonetheless it is the responsibility of CERN to choose the right components.
So I agree with you.

Laguna
2007-Sep-25, 12:49 PM
So even though it's located in Switzerland, it would be incorrect to call it a purely European endeavor.
I never said so.
And as the Switzerland does not belong to the EU, I would never do so. ;)

BISMARCK
2007-Sep-26, 06:31 PM
The May 2007 edition of The New Yorker had an article about the LHC that was fascinating.