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man on the moon
2003-Jul-21, 06:01 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/07/20/sprj.colu.disaster.display.ap/index.html

this links to a page that asks what to do with the remains of the orbiter Columbia. use it for research? hide it away with Challenger? send pieces to various cities for memorials? cache it at the Smithsonian?

my thought is to create a museum that will embody our faiulres and fears, and show how we grew from them. how they inspired us or challenged us. to display the bad things that happened to us, and explain how that event changed our world. displays could include the Oklahoma City bombing, 9-11, civil rights movement, sniper shootings, and so on.

a huge part of this museum would be to remember the everyday men and women who died in the events, patricularly those working to save others or advance science. (Columbia would be part of this).

what about anyone else? i know there has to be someone who disagrees with me! let's hear it...

pmcolt
2003-Jul-21, 06:13 AM
Seven people died aboard Columbia. Columbia died that day. Let it rest in peace.

Put the pieces in storage, away from public eyes. At most, use it for research. Build a memorial if you want something public. I don't know about the pieces ending up in a museum, especially a museum dedicated to failures. If you really want such a museum, display photographs, models, video, and descriptive texts. It's less ghoulish than letting the public gawk at the remains of what was once Columbia.

Colt
2003-Jul-21, 08:15 AM
The Smithsonian might be best. Show significant parts of it though, Columbia did disintegrate but alot of tonnage survived. -Colt

man on the moon
2003-Jul-21, 09:12 AM
i should clarfiy--NOT the whole, or even most of Columbia...goodness. i agree that wouldn't work too well for various reasons. but a few, perhaps the key pieces. for education and to show that these people were doing what they loved and serving their world, even though it meant death. goodness, i wouldn't want the whole thing out in the open!

since i last posted i've done some thinking. it's not so much the failures that i want to highlight, but i guess that isn't clear either. it is rather the succeses that they have inspired. in the words of Abe Lincoln:

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives...It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract...It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they...have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that from these honored...we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these...shall not have died in vain...

i don't want to glorify death or destruction any more than the next man, but i think they do deserve something. it doesn't have to be big, or complicated. simple, but powerful. i may not have put the next phrase in (i rewrote it several times) the final "draft", but with each thing, put a much more powerful display of what was inspired through their sacrifice. i know a lot of people are going to disagree, and that's what i want--to get ideas flowing. sometimes it takes a nut to do that...a description i fit well!(if it helps, part of me is screaming "devil's advocate" at this idea. just want to get those juices flowing. :wink: ).

frenat
2003-Jul-21, 11:00 AM
The Smithsonian might be best. Show significant parts of it though, Columbia did disintegrate but alot of tonnage survived. -Colt

There is really not much room at the Smithsonian. Maybe they could squeeze it in but the USAF museum in Dayton, OH has more than 6 times the total floor space. Once you've seen the museum in Dayton, you may never want to go back to DC

WHarris
2003-Jul-21, 12:01 PM
There'll be more than enough room at the Air & Space Museum's Udvar-Hazy Center. It's scheduled to open in late December.

Raven_Tuoni
2003-Jul-21, 02:26 PM
maybe they should open a museum dedicated to our loses in space, (unless they have already, in which case I should just shut my mouth)

I don't think they should show they entire Columbia, that'd be like raising the Titanic to put in on display, but maybe key pieces, most of the museum should probably be dedicated to why those crews and ships were lost and what was done to correct that

I also think it should be international the USA has lost 3 crews and Russia has lost 2, correct?

BigJim
2003-Jul-21, 02:56 PM
Yes. However, the Americans only lost two on flights. And the Soviets came pretty close to losing crews three more times - on Soyuz 5, Soyuz 18, and Soyuz T-10.

Raven_Tuoni
2003-Jul-21, 02:59 PM
well yes we only lost 2 crews on flights, but you can't ignore the tragedy of Apollo I

BigJim
2003-Jul-21, 03:35 PM
Yes, that's true. But did you know that the Soviets also lost a cosmonaut in a simulator due to a fire? His name was Valentin Bondarenko. The fire was on March 23, 1961, and there is some speculation that he was to be the first man in space.

Raven_Tuoni
2003-Jul-21, 07:10 PM
okay, all loses to the space programs, so he'd be included too

Russ
2003-Jul-21, 07:59 PM
Seven people died aboard Columbia. Columbia died that day. Let it rest in peace.

Put the pieces in storage, away from public eyes. At most, use it for research. Build a memorial if you want something public. I don't know about the pieces ending up in a museum, especially a museum dedicated to failures. If you really want such a museum, display photographs, models, video, and descriptive texts. It's less ghoulish than letting the public gawk at the remains of what was once Columbia.

Sorry, but I disagree with your point of view. If it were human remains up for display I could agree. Resting in peace, is important but is not tied to pieces of inanimate matter.

I do agree with Man On The Moon, in that he quoted Abe Lincoln's Getteysburg Address. A profound piece of wisdom which has survived the centuries. In short, these people will surely have died in vain if we do not continue their work and honor their sacrifice. What better way to honor them than to display the available remains of their craft, discuss what could have been done better and continue work they felt worth while.

Doodler
2003-Jul-21, 08:39 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the wreckage displayed. There have been quite a few exhibitions of recovered salvage from downed ships, including an upcoming display of the CSS Hunley (cannot WAIT to see this one), which took three crews to the bottom with her in the process of becoming the worlds first operational attack submarine. The USS Monitor, which has pieces being retrieved from its resting place, and the Titanic, which has parts and pieces in various displays around the world, both from floating debris recovered after the sinking and from the recent rediscovery from the wreck at the bottom of the Atlantic. The ships bell from the Edmund Fitzgerald which was rung at the memorial to the crew over the site of its wreck. Salvage from these incidents are more than just inanimate objects, they are links to these vessels that remind us of the risks that are a part of every endeavour we undertake in life. Thinking on it, one of the more touching uses of salvage was a superbike I saw made on Discovery for the New York Fire Department that had a piece of debris from the WTC site built into the design as a memorial. If anything, the fire fighters who received the bike were incredibly touched by the inclusion of the piece. I would not underestimate the value of salvage, its more than just junked hardware.

pmcolt
2003-Jul-21, 09:07 PM
Sorry, but I disagree with your point of view. If it were human remains up for display I could agree. Resting in peace, is important but is not tied to pieces of inanimate matter.

It does have some precedent; Apollo 1 and the Challenger wreckage have not been put up on public display, even though I won't claim that the purpose is to let the craft rest in peace. It just seems to me that they were the site of a great sacrifice by the people who gave their lives in those incidents, and it seems a little tasteless to me to put wreckage from these events out as a museum display for the public to point at, look over, or have their photo taken with.

I do agree that there should be a memorial; some sort of fitting tribute to the sacrifice that they made. A museum dedicated to our losses in space would be touching, in a way, but it should also remember the achievements and successes of those who we've lost, rather than just showing them as the victims of accidents in the space program.

man on the moon
2003-Jul-22, 05:54 AM
i can see where you are coming from, and it is easy to view something public as simply being inhuman and heartlessly displaying private or personal matters. i wouldn't want to upset any of the families. in planning a memorial i would try to put myself in their shoes, and it would be a good idea to involve them in the planning. i agree they wouldn't want just any old stuff put up that would be a constant reminder of their pain. grief is a very powerful emotion, and to extend it in such a manner would be a terrible mistake.

however, i also believe that they would not simply want their people forgotten. memories are strong too, and while people will not forget how they died, it is easy to forget why. why the were on that ship, why they were in a tower, why they believed in the ability of man to succeed in the face of danger. to remind us that we are still fighting the same fight and still searching for answers. yes, there will always be more questions. answering the ones we have today is how we find the questions of tomorrow, and that search is what drives us. it is why i came to college. t is why i go on road trips instead of flying (ok, so sometimes i fly too...). it is why many of us joined this board. searching our emotions and exploring our world is what defines us, and if we lose sight of that, we lose a great thing.

a memorial is one way to honor those among us who stood above the rest in their daring to explore, and in doing so, challenged us to follow. i agree, i DO NOT want to go against any families wishes. however, i do think it can be done tactfully and tastefully at the same time. i don't want to be in charge, but i do like creating ideas, and hearing other's ideas. without differeing points of view, there would be no catalyst for change or discovery. keep giving your ideas!

(i think this puts me to 300 posts... :o :) ...)