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The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Oct-17, 05:40 PM
42 . . . there, I stole your potential reply. Now let's move on . . .

The universe as we know it operates by some very strict laws. Chemistry and Physics explains some of these and interaction of matter and energy etc. Out of these laws a possibility exists to make some replicating molecules which are themselves self-evolving and capable of becoming complex organisms, i.e. humans.

Humans (or most of them) have consciousness which allows them to explore some of these laws which allow them to be. We are universe's way of thinking about itself. But what does that mean?

It seems for thousands of years the goal of humans has been to survive and to reproduce. Is that what the meaning of life is? To continue in existence?

This may get very philosophical and I'm looking forward to seeing some of member's opinions in this thread.

Moose
2007-Oct-17, 05:43 PM
But what does that mean?

For the life of me, I can't remember where this is from, but the meaning of life is simply: This.

Just: This.

The slightly longer answer is: we make our own meaning.

Fazor
2007-Oct-17, 05:43 PM
Largely Inconsequential and Futile Existance. Now where's the cheese?

Argos
2007-Oct-17, 05:52 PM
[B]It seems for thousands of years the goal of humans has been to survive and to reproduce. Is that what the meaning of life is? To continue in existence?

In short, yes. I think of life as a collection of random physical processes ruled by the weak anthropic principle.

It´s up to us to make some sense out of it.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-17, 05:56 PM
It´s up to us to make some sense out of it.

Yes. After all the posts are made to this thread, 42 will be just as good an answer as the rest, which is what I think the Monty Python movie was trying to say.

Doodler
2007-Oct-17, 06:19 PM
Life is biological entropy. An evolution from a highly disordered to highly ordered state.

Existance>survival>awareness>comprehension>manipulation>control

Ilya
2007-Oct-17, 06:23 PM
Why does life need a meaning? I think it is fine as is.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-17, 06:24 PM
Existence>survival>awareness>comprehension>manipulation>control>blue sky>black death

Frantic Freddie
2007-Oct-17, 06:24 PM
Beer.

NEOWatcher
2007-Oct-17, 06:27 PM
Existence>survival>awareness>comprehension>manipulation>control>blue sky>black death

And when I read it, I automatically thought...
Existence>survival>awareness>comprehension>manipulation>control>marriage>divorce

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-17, 06:31 PM
And when I read it, I automatically thought...
Existence>survival>awareness>comprehension>manipulation>control>marriage>divorce

Way OT: Why is there a space in "manipulation"? Some kind of auto-break if a string is too long?

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-17, 06:34 PM
Way OT: Why is there a space in "manipulation"? Some kind of auto-break if a string is too long?

Never mind. That's it. The string is too long.

Ronald Brak
2007-Oct-17, 07:06 PM
So, what's the meaning of life?

It might help you to back up a step and first ask, "Is there meaning to life?" And it may help you to ask yourself the following two questions. "Is there meaning to rock?" and, "Is there meaning to a rock that has rolled across your leg, crushing it and pinning you to the ground?" Pondering the rock questions may lead you to an answer about your original question. It's very zen.

Swift
2007-Oct-17, 07:12 PM
This is not meant as a joke or wise-mouth comment, but my answer is I have absolutely no idea. I think it is a good question, I would love to know the answer (and it could be "there is none"), but I don't know. I don't suspect anyone does.

Fazor
2007-Oct-17, 07:18 PM
Why does life have to have a meaning? Life can be described with countless adjectives, and defined in many different ways. But it is what it is. I think I could just as easily say, "What's the meaning of this desk?". It doesn't mean anything, but it certianly is something.

That's my two cents. Four if you count the initial joke post. :)

[edit: D'oh! I just saw your post Ronald. At least we're think'n along the same lines]

Noclevername
2007-Oct-18, 12:23 AM
The meaning of life doesn't have anything to do with where we came from or what we're made of. It's about what we do with our lives.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-18, 12:44 AM
My meaning is to help others. After all, my avatar is all we have for the moment.

Whirlpool
2007-Oct-18, 01:31 AM
It seems for thousands of years the goal of humans has been to survive and to reproduce. Is that what the meaning of life is? To continue in existence?

Yes, at that point of view its to exist , alive , living .

But there is more of what you can imagine as you grow older and faces new challenges in your life , by then you'll have your own definition of what Life is.

;)

Noclevername
2007-Oct-18, 01:38 AM
Yes. After all the posts are made to this thread, 42 will be just as good an answer as the rest, which is what I think the Monty Python movie was trying to say.

Actually, it's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, not Monty Python.

ADDED : Yup, just wanted to be the first nerd to jump in with that.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-18, 01:42 AM
Actually, it's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, not Monty Python.

ADDED : Yup, just wanted to be the first nerd to jump in with that.

That's the second time I've been wrong today. How embarassing. I'm not sure I ever had a nerd card but if I did, it would be pulled today.

Hydro
2007-Oct-18, 03:02 AM
Actually, it's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, not Monty Python.


I thought (whack) that was from Hitchhiker's, but you beat me to it.

Delvo
2007-Oct-18, 03:50 AM
Actually, Monty Python did do a movie (actually a movie-length collection of skits) called "The Meaning of Life".

It just isn't where the "42" thing came from... but I thought the original reference to MP in here was actually to "The Meaning of Life", not to the stories with "42" in them.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-18, 05:17 AM
We are universe's way of thinking about itself. But what does that mean?

Humans have a tendency to place themselves and their own importance at the pinnacle of creation. Our existence and ability to think might just be a side-effect. The main stuff might be happening a billion light-years away. Thinking about itself could be one of the less important things the universe produces, there may be something we can't even concieve of that's far greater, and we'd never know. So much for our grand place in the universe.:boohoo:

danscope
2007-Oct-18, 05:19 AM
"
Thank you Brigitte. [She reads.]... Well, it's

nothing
special. Try and be nice to people, avoid

eating fat, read a
good book every now and then, get some walking

in and try and
live together in peace and harmony with people

of all creeds
and nations. And finally, here are some

completely gratuitous
pictures of*&*&&* to annoy the censors and to

hopefully
spark some sort of controversy which it seems

is the only way
these days to get the jaded video-sated public rant rant etc.
*********
Well, there you have it. Also,.....42 seems to work.
And so.....thanks for all the fish."

Maksutov
2007-Oct-18, 06:58 AM
And when I read it, I automatically thought...
Existence>survival>awareness>comprehension>manipulation>control>marriage>divorce
Been there, survived that.

Meanwhile, the meaning of life is what you define it to be.

For some, it's money, for others, it's love, for too many, it's evil, and for a few, it's knievel.

Of course Willie the Shake had his own opinion on this, or least one of his characters did
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Maksutov
2007-Oct-18, 07:38 AM
Scott Adams has his own ideas on this subject. (http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007183331018.gif)

R.A.F.
2007-Oct-18, 11:41 AM
Humans have a tendency to place themselves and their own importance at the pinnacle of creation.

...and every time "we've" done that, be it placing the Earth at the center of the Solar System, or placing the Solar System at the center of the Galaxy...every time we have been proved wrong.

So, what's the meaning of life?...donuts...

Moose
2007-Oct-18, 12:15 PM
For some, it's money, for others, it's love, for too many, it's evil, and for a few, it's knievel.

Clever, pithy, and profound in just the right proportions, baked just so; resulting in a considerable amount of Win.

Well played, Sir, well played. :clap:

farmerjumperdon
2007-Oct-18, 12:42 PM
For the life of me, I can't remember where this is from, but the meaning of life is simply: This.

Just: This.

The slightly longer answer is: we make our own meaning.

Alan Watts: "This is it."

Michael Noonan
2007-Oct-18, 12:51 PM
Why does life have to have a meaning? Life can be described with countless adjectives, and defined in many different ways. But it is what it is. I think I could just as easily say, "What's the meaning of this desk?". It doesn't mean anything, but it certainly is something.

That's my two cents. Four if you count the initial joke post. :)

[edit: D'oh! I just saw your post Ronald. At least we're think'n along the same lines]

Good question "Why does life have to have a meaning?", maybe the question itself is too big for us. Even Einstein was quoted:- "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

Perhaps something smaller like "Why does my life have meaning?" What is my purpose? Well one of my purposes I have been meaning to ask you Fazor is how is Abigail? The little girl in the pool accident.

nicely said here

Originally Posted by Noclevername
The meaning of life doesn't have anything to do with where we came from or what we're made of. It's about what we do with our lives.

Argos
2007-Oct-18, 12:53 PM
it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Mak, there couldn´t be something more appropriate. :clap:

Moose
2007-Oct-18, 12:56 PM
*snaps fingers* No, it wasn't Alan Watts. I just remembered where I heard it. It's what Curly said to Mick in City Slickers. (And I can't believe I quoted philosophy from City Slickers. I shall contemplate that on the Tree of Shame.)

Zachary
2007-Oct-18, 12:57 PM
damned if I know. And if the multiverse theory is correct the question becomes even more difficult to answer. Anything you can possibly accomplish in your life has already been done. Not only has it already been done but it's already been done by you, an infinate number of times. And in all probability you're just living in a simulated world (possibly run by you), so really what's the point?

I hope the multiverse theory isn't proved in my lifetime because I'll probably just end up eating cheesy snacks in front of the TV for the rest of my life.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Oct-18, 01:17 PM
Meaning as in purpose or intent of the existence of all life, or meaning as some human-centric idea of why any certain individual is here. I call that the little l versus big L distinction.

Life (L) has no intent; no collective will. Prior to humans, or at least certainly prior to sentient beings, there was no intended purpose. There was just a bunch of reporducing cellular organisms that existed because the parent organisms successfully reproduced. The organisms that were best suited to the environment to survive long enough to reproduce, and then do so successfully, continued to exist. Those that could not simply ceased to exist. No intent, no purpose, just existence.

At some point one or more of the multicellular organisms developed, thru mutation and subsequent better abilities to survive, a nueral network capable of generating this thing we call conciousness, or awareness of it's own existence, or soul, or mind, or whatever you want to call it. With that came the capability to ask why about all kinds of things, including why we are here. Many fools have invented all kinds of answers to that invented question, with none of them providing a shred of evidence to support their hypothesis. It is all just wishful thinking on the way they want, or wish things were.

Life is nothing more than biological processes that have evolved into a very complex and diverse tangle of single and multicellular organisms. There is no reason for Life, it just is. There is no reason for Life to be here, it is just here.

Life is not fair, and life is not unfair. Life just is. Prepare yourself to deal with it.

Now little l life is very different. In life, you get to design your purpose; pitiful, paultry, and insignificant as it is likely to be in all but extemely rare cases. Even then, with sufficient time, all significance of individual humans fades.

Well your mama was there to protect you,
Your papa was there to provide
So how in the world did the excellent baby wind up in this hotel so broken inside?

You lie on your bed in the midnight darkenss,
Listening to every sound
Watching and waiting for anything moving and hoping they don't come around

Cuz it's a dog eat dog
It's a cat and mouse
It's cut the cake and pass your plate and hope it goes around

It's a do or die,
It's down to push and shove
Because everybody's hungry and there just isn't quite enough

That's right I'm talking about the good life
In the foodchain
Love amongst the ruins
Cuz everything gets to this certain condition
Winds up on a customers plate and then it's gone

- Tonio K

farmerjumperdon
2007-Oct-18, 01:20 PM
*snaps fingers* No, it wasn't Alan Watts. I just remembered where I heard it. It's what Curly said to Mick in City Slickers. (And I can't believe I quoted philosophy from City Slickers. I shall contemplate that on the Tree of Shame.)

It is the title of one of his books, that slightly predates City Slickers. Though he might have taken it from someone else before him.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Oct-18, 01:28 PM
And in all probability you're just living in a simulated world (possibly run by you), so really what's the point?

I hope the multiverse theory isn't proved in my lifetime because I'll probably just end up eating cheesy snacks in front of the TV for the rest of my life.

All probability, as in 100% likely? Or 100% certain?

Doesn't appear at all likely that multiverse stuff is even within the realm of being able to be proven or disproven. For that reason I don't like even seeing it called a theory. It is no more a theory than most religions. It's a thought experiment at best.

Moose
2007-Oct-18, 01:45 PM
It is the title of one of his books, that slightly predates City Slickers. Though he might have taken it from someone else before him.

Ah, I meant that Watts wasn't where I'd heard it. I've no doubt the screenwriter of City Slickers swiped it from someone else. (Hollywood coming up with something original and profound? Yeah. Pull the other one.)

Noclevername
2007-Oct-18, 02:04 PM
I hope the multiverse theory isn't proved in my lifetime because I'll probably just end up eating cheesy snacks in front of the TV for the rest of my life.

Multiverse, shmultiverse. Just because my otherversal duplicate used to be me, when we diverged he stopped being me and I couldn't give a rat's tail about what he does after that. Same goes for all the other poor shmucks who used to be me, right down to Nazi Me, Cowboy Me, Vampire Me, and Space Me. None of their decisions impact my life in any way, and so they're irrelevant.

Michael Noonan
2007-Oct-18, 03:03 PM
:clap:
Multiverse, shmultiverse. Just because my otherversal duplicate used to be me, when we diverged he stopped being me and I couldn't give a rat's tail about what he does after that. Same goes for all the other poor shmucks who used to be me, right down to Nazi Me, Cowboy Me, Vampire Me, and Space Me. None of their decisions impact my life in any way, and so they're irrelevant.


Way to go :clap:

(oh but why doesn't anyone like the multi-potential omniverse where we are the accumulated potential of all there is provided we don't interfere with what there was :boohoo: :think: :naughty: :p )

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-18, 03:18 PM
This is not as good an answer as 42 and it is slightly OT but here is a paraphrased line from something I read years ago. It may be from The Razor's Edge, by W. Somerset Maugham but I'm not sure. Someone more literate may be able to verify. Anyhow, it has to do with one expecting a reward at the end of their life for having lived a good life.

"The reward for living a good life is that good life that you lived."

danscope
2007-Oct-18, 03:50 PM
" And he were right! Why we had nothing and we were happier than,
even though we were poor."
" Because we were poor! My ol' Dad used to say ' Son, money doesn't buy you happiness.' " There were 13 of us living in a tiny tumbledown
cottage with great holes in roof with half the floor missing."
" Why you were lucky to have a cottage! It would have been like a palace to us! There were 26 of us living
in an ol' water tank down by the rubbish tip. We used to get up in the
morning with a load of rotten fish dumped on us, go down, work at mill and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep w' his belt."
"Luxury. We used to sleep in a hole in the ground covered by a piece of canvas, but it were a house to us!.
" We were evicted from our hole in the ground. We had to go live at lake."
"Aye. You were lucky. There were 32 of us living out of a shoe box in motorway. We used to get up, and lick the road clean with our tongues,
go to work at mill for 10 cents a week, and when we got home, our Dad
would beat us around the head and neck w'a broken bottle...if we were lucky."
Well, of course we had it tough. There were 42 of us living out of a rolled up newspaper in a septic tank. We used to get up in morning, clean the newspaper, eat a handful of hot gravel, work at mill for nothing, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two w' bread knife!"
..................." Right!!! I used to get up at half past 2 at night, half an hour before we went to bed, eat a lump of freezing cold poison, go t'work at mill
for nothhing and PAY millowner to work there, and when we got home our
Dad would murder us in cold blood, bury us alive and jump up and down on our graves singing 'alleluiah'. "
" And ya try to tell the young people that today.....
....an they won't believe ya."
Legends of the poor

Michael Noonan
2007-Oct-18, 04:02 PM
This is not as good an answer as 42 and it is slightly OT but here is a paraphrased line from something I read years ago. It may be from The Razor's Edge, by W. Somerset Maugham but I'm not sure. Someone more literate may be able to verify. Anyhow, it has to do with one expecting a reward at the end of their life for having lived a good life.

"The reward for living a good life is that good life that you lived."

Very good answer, but what if the reward is now just the moment? This life now that you are living. Why wait until the end of it when it is possible to forget that some of the most fantastic living could be right now.

All right this is a bit ATM and only in the recursive singular model I looked at but we are the accumulation in one sole physical form all of the conscious energies of the life we live. That life if changed in time, it carries all the signatures of energy of each shift in its time line. Something that a sensitive person like Nietzsche may have been able to detect.

It is certainly an absolute downer for anyone with a life that some might wish to look at if they could travel in time. That person if able to balance harmoniously the conscious energy of what was with what is would likely tune into the collective thinking of more than one energy but most likely finish up with a terrible case of schizophrenia.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-18, 04:07 PM
Very good answer, but what if the reward is now just the moment? This life now that you are living. Why wait until the end of it when it is possible to forget that some of the most fantastic living could be right now.



I agree. A 'snapshot" of that quote is also valid.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-18, 04:07 PM
All right this is a bit ATM and only in the recursive singular model I looked at but we are the accumulation in one sole physical form all of the conscious energies of the life we live.

What is "conscious energy"? Current scientific thinking is that consciousness is thought to come from a dynamic interaction of informational systems in the brain. Conscious energy sounds more like 19th century Vitalism.

Michael Noonan
2007-Oct-18, 04:17 PM
What is "conscious energy"? Current scientific thinking is that consciousness is thought to come from a dynamic interaction of informational systems in the brain. Conscious energy sounds more like 19th century Vitalism.

I was thinking along the lines of an energy source outside the confines of a deterministic system. I looked at Wikipedia and it had this for Vitalism:-

Vitalism, as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary,[1] is

1. a doctrine that the functions of a living organism are due to a vital principle distinct from physicochemical forces
2. a doctrine that the processes of life are not explicable by the laws of physics and chemistry alone and that life is in some part self-determining
Where vitalism explicitly invokes a vital principle, that element is often referred to as the "vital spark," "energy" or "élan vital," which some equate with the "soul."

I have no problem with this concept but as this goes into areas outside scientific analysis I am keenly aware that I am treading on a very fine line.

Zachary
2007-Oct-18, 04:21 PM
All probability, as in 100% likely? Or 100% certain?

Doesn't appear at all likely that multiverse stuff is even within the realm of being able to be proven or disproven. For that reason I don't like even seeing it called a theory. It is no more a theory than most religions. It's a thought experiment at best.

Assuming a multiverse theory is correct, some believe it is extremely probable that we're in some sort of simulationg.

i.e. take the set of all universes, now take the subset of all universes with intelligent life (still infinity, just a smaller infinity. I love saying that :P). Anything that isn't impossible must exist, so assuming it is possible to model the universe, there are now an infinate number of simulated universes. And in the infinate number of simulated universes, there are an infinate number of simulated universes within the simulated universes. And in the infinate number of infinate number of simulated universes there are an infinate number of simulated universes. Aaaaaand so on, for ever. As an interesting side note if one of the beings (in the real multiverse) accidentally breaks one of the simulations he/she/it will be responsible for mass genocide on an...well...infinate scale, literally.

There are better lines of reasoning than this, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-18, 04:28 PM
Assuming a multiverse theory is correct, some believe it is extremely probable that we're in some sort of simulationg.

That's really three hypotheses; one, that there are multiple universes, two, that they are all variations of a timeline, and three, that there are an infinite number.

Zachary
2007-Oct-18, 04:32 PM
That's really three hypotheses; one, that there are multiple universes, two, that they are all variations of a timeline, and three, that there are an infinite number.

Well, yes, I never claimed the multiverse exists, I'm just pondering! ;).

Whether the multiverse does or doesn't exist is really a philosophical, not scientific, question, as there's jack all evidence either way. It's pretty much on the same shelf as 'is there a god?' and 'where are all my socks?'

Michael Noonan
2007-Oct-18, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by Noclevername
That's really three hypotheses; one, that there are multiple universes, two, that they are all variations of a timeline, and three, that there are an infinite number.
Well, yes, I never claimed the multiverse exists, I'm just pondering! ;).

Whether the multiverse does or doesn't exist is really a philosophical, not scientific, question, as there's jack all evidence either way. It's pretty much on the same shelf as 'is there a god?' and 'where are all my socks?'

On a variation of a the model of time-lines one could assume the end has already been seen by human eyes. An end and that access to that time-line if it was like a string would vibrate less and less the further back in time one went. Somewhat like an underwater volcano may cause just a ripple on a beach far enough away.

I am not saying people would flee because they are evil, just scared and with the means to go back to live in safer times. As soon as they harness the energy to go back in that time-line the effect would crash then flow and finally ripple to where we are now. So we would be the cumulative result of all that there is and that which is to come.

They may or may not be right but if the universe did run its lines of physical existence like the flux lines in the sun then a convergence may cause a timed collapse along the length of that arm.

If that was the case then quite interestingly some of our descendants could theoretically also be some of our ancestors. Trouble with that idea is that they are still in the time-line and their arrival in the past, the far distant past for safety may still be enough to negate their existence as they arrived back in the flow of time.

One would pass on the usual precautions, please do not go back and kill Hitler and do not let A.J. Rimmer impersonate Alexander the Great or for that matter Jesus. The thing is it would be just plain typical human nature to try and do something so damned stupid if they could.

Not for me thanks, I like the fact that the water flows and the sewerage is gone. As for the past the water is sought and the sewerage is on the nose.

danscope
2007-Oct-21, 07:25 PM
Alan Watts: "This is it."

Hi, One of my favourite books, "This is It" is great reading, and it's hard to do better than Allan Watts .
Read well, and often....and prosper.
Dan

Disinfo Agent
2007-Oct-22, 07:55 PM
I was going to write a Monty Python joke, but someone else got there before me. :D

So here's a serious reply instead:


It seems for thousands of years the goal of humans has been to survive and to reproduce. Is that what the meaning of life is? To continue in existence?"Survive and reproduce" is only the meaning of life for those who can't think of anything better.

Consider this: the whole of science is ultimately the product of biology, since it's a set of ideas concocted by a particular species of animals (we). Yet I don't think it would occur to anyone to claim that "deep down" science is just biology. We can readily see through the nonsense of such an oversimplification. That's not what science "really is"; it's just a crude and shallow caricature of science.

In the same way, I feel that while we are biological beings, and would not be here without those millions of years of biological evolution, we don't have to reduce ourselves to our biology, unless we want to.

Fazor
2007-Oct-22, 08:00 PM
Well one of my purposes I have been meaning to ask you Fazor is how is Abigail? The little girl in the pool accident.

The girl that sat on the pool drain and was disemboweled? She's not exactly a close personal friend, so I'll have to guess. The story said she lived, but I'm sure she's got a lot of lasting problems. Why do you ask?

The_Radiation_Specialist
2007-Oct-22, 08:02 PM
OK, there was a simple answer (i.e. you make your own meaning, it can have any meaning) that could have saved the very existence of this thread. :)

Disinfo Agent
2007-Oct-22, 08:08 PM
Of course, life is the sort of thing whose meaning is decided and constructed by each individual.

speedfreek
2007-Oct-22, 08:59 PM
The meaning of life, for all sentient beings, is to work out exactly how the universe works so we can switch the damn thing off!

Disinfo Agent
2007-Oct-22, 09:07 PM
I hadn't realised we had Buddhists here in the forum.

Swift
2007-Oct-22, 09:23 PM
The meaning of life, for all sentient beings, is to work out exactly how the universe works so we can switch the damn thing off!

There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
I can't believe no one quoted that yet.

phaishazamkhan
2007-Oct-22, 10:29 PM
There is no meaning to life. Enjoy your profound abject horror of it all.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-22, 11:15 PM
The meaning of life, for all sentient beings, is to work out exactly how the universe works so we can switch the damn thing off!

I thought we were trying to figure out how to jiggle the mouse, so we can all get out of this dang screen saver!

Maksutov
2007-Oct-23, 10:52 AM
We may not know the meaning of it but we know how it ends:
"We know how the Universe ends," said the guide, "and Earth has
nothing to do with it, except that it gets wiped out, too."

"How-how does the Universe end?" said Billy.

"We blow it up, experimenting with new fuels for our flying
saucers. A Tralfamadorian test pilot presses a starter button, and the
whole Universe disappears." So it goes.

"If you know this," said Billy, "isn"t there some way you can
prevent it? Can't you keep the pilot from pressing the button?"

"He has always pressed it, and he always will. We always let him
and we always will let him. The moment is structured that way."

reidenschneider
2007-Oct-23, 11:37 AM
So, what's the meaning of life?

"looked at from an non-anthropomorphic standpoint we are merely hosts for cancer cells" (or any animalcule you may suffer from)

having said that,

life is head long rush to oblivion - stand up comic :boohoo:

farmerjumperdon
2007-Oct-23, 12:03 PM
Assuming a multiverse theory is correct, some believe it is extremely probable that we're in some sort of simulationg.

i.e. take the set of all universes, now take the subset of all universes with intelligent life (still infinity, just a smaller infinity. I love saying that :P). Anything that isn't impossible must exist, so assuming it is possible to model the universe, there are now an infinate number of simulated universes. And in the infinate number of simulated universes, there are an infinate number of simulated universes within the simulated universes. And in the infinate number of infinate number of simulated universes there are an infinate number of simulated universes. Aaaaaand so on, for ever. As an interesting side note if one of the beings (in the real multiverse) accidentally breaks one of the simulations he/she/it will be responsible for mass genocide on an...well...infinate scale, literally.

There are better lines of reasoning than this, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

But those are some huge assumptions. The first one being the assumption that multiverse theories are correct. Any statement about multiverse theories that rests on that assumption is a tautology, isn't it? Pretty much like religious beliefs.

The next being that "some" who believe multiverse theories are correct also believe that it is possible we are living in a simulation. Then from that to simply jumping to the statement that there are an infinite number of simulations.

Not to mention that there is an underlying assumption that the Universe has been around already for an infinite length of time. Maybe. Maybe not. Is there any proff either way that time had a definite beginning?

farmerjumperdon
2007-Oct-23, 12:05 PM
I thought we were trying to figure out how to jiggle the mouse, so we can all get out of this dang screen saver!

I find it very funny that even when the super-techie computer fixer guy shows up one of the things they almost always do is wiggle the mouse when the processor seems to be moving slowly. Is there any merit to doing that?

Moose
2007-Oct-23, 12:20 PM
I find it very funny that even when the super-techie computer fixer guy shows up one of the things they almost always do is wiggle the mouse when the processor seems to be moving slowly. Is there any merit to doing that?

It won't make the processor go any faster. You can't hand crank a processor (well, there was one you could, but that was a debug mode...) any more than pressing the call button on the elevator repeatedly will make it show up any sooner. Odds are, it's just an unconscious "magic toggle" move much like tapping one's fingers.

Still, though, jiggling the mouse pointer and looking to see if the motion stutters can sometimes be indicative of a process that's struggling.

mickal555
2007-Oct-23, 12:53 PM
The question is too vague.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-23, 08:11 PM
The question is too vague.

The one about the meaning of life or the one about the mouse pointer? :)

Fisherman
2007-Oct-30, 03:00 AM
Recently scientist discovered that useless appendix organ may produce protect good germs for your gut.
Also recently scientific finding junk DNA is not junk. How science in the past brainwash people to make them believe in these kind explanations. When science do not understand always have the same answer “useless or do not exist.” Science uses the same explanations existence of God, Spirit and the world beyond physical understandings.
The planet Earth just a laboratory for an experiment of FREE WILL by allow man to do anything on planet but he have a choice to do good or bad.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 03:20 AM
. How science in the past brainwash people to make them believe in these kind explanations. When science do not understand always have the same answer “useless or do not exist.” .

Wrong. First, don't confuse the conclusions of specific scientists with science.

Second, saying "I don't know" is part of the scientific process. It motivates us to find out more.

Third, the rules of this forum say that you can't talk about religion.
Go read the rules. Click on "FAQ" on the blue box at the top of the page.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Oct-30, 03:24 AM
There is no meaning to life. Enjoy your profound abject horror of it all.

Good one! :clap:

Disinfo Agent
2007-Oct-30, 03:43 AM
I sympathise a bit with what Fisherman wrote above. Yes, scientists do have a tendency to dismiss or handwave away that which they are unable to fully understand. However, I would say that this is not so much a result of the scientific method, as of their own prior biases.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 04:00 AM
I sympathise a bit with what Fisherman wrote above. Yes, scientists do have a tendency to dismiss or handwave away that which they are unable to fully understand. However, I would say that this is not so much a result of the scientific method, as of their own prior biases.

You can't generalize about all scientists' attitudes or biases any more that you could about, say, all plumbers. Scientists are trained to discount information that is not verified, that's not "handwaving". Quite the opposite.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 04:03 AM
You act as if there were no religious scientists, or no spiritual ones.

Disinfo Agent
2007-Oct-30, 04:04 AM
Oh, I wasn't thinking of religion in particular.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 04:10 AM
Still, the point stands. Discounting unverified or unverifiable information is part of the scientific process. Doesn't mean a scientist can't believe something personally, just that it can't be supported scientifically.

Chuck
2007-Oct-30, 04:37 AM
No one's infesting my life with meaning. I've built up an immunity.

SkepticJ
2007-Oct-30, 06:10 AM
The meaning of life is to be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 04:23 PM
Individual lives have meaning; Life, capital L, is just sort of there.

Moose
2007-Oct-30, 04:38 PM
You can't generalize about all scientists' attitudes or biases any more that you could about, say, all plumbers.

All plumbers jump on turtles obsessively (irritating PeTA no end) and keep showing up at the wrong castle.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 04:40 PM
All plumbers jump on turtles obsessively (irritating PeTA no end) and keep showing up at the wrong castle.

That's-a right, Luigi!

mike alexander
2007-Oct-30, 10:12 PM
Life - The Complete Cereal. How True.

-Jean Shepherd, The Return of the Smiling Wimpy Doll

Doodler
2007-Oct-30, 10:14 PM
All plumbers jump on turtles obsessively (irritating PeTA no end) and keep showing up at the wrong castle.

Its gotta the 'shrooms they're doing...

Fisherman
2007-Oct-31, 12:03 AM
Wrong. First, don't confuse the conclusions of specific scientists with science.

Second, saying "I don't know" is part of the scientific process. It motivates us to find out more.

Third, the rules of this forum say that you can't talk about religion.
Go read the rules. Click on "FAQ" on the blue box at the top of the page.[/QUOTE]


Definitely I agree with you but I always approach with open mind and I’m not a religious person. Greed use science to make quick money and never looked if be good not for the nature. I’m not surprise since human’s able use less 10% of their brains, not enough to call ourselves intelligent species. Man proved how he is destructive to the planet Earth only home in the universe where we can live.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 12:08 AM
I’m not surprise since human’s able use less 10% of their brains, not enough to call ourselves intelligent species.


That's actually a myth. Humans use all parts of our brains at various times, different parts depending on how we're thinking. If all of the brain is activated at once, you are having a seizure.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-31, 12:51 AM
That's actually a myth. Humans use all parts of our brains at various times, different parts depending on how we're thinking. If all of the brain is activated at once, you are having a seizure.
If you only used ten percent of your brain, wouldn't you have evolved with just that ten percent?

Van Rijn
2007-Oct-31, 01:14 AM
If you only used ten percent of your brain, wouldn't you have evolved with just that ten percent?

Probably. There is a certain amount of redundancy, and kids can seem to lose a good chunk of brain and often "rewire" fairly well. Then again, they probably won't function as well as they would have, and they might be more prone to neurological issues as they age. An adult's brain isn't as flexible, and it's more likely that damage will cause major failures. But gradual failure is also possible, and even with redundancy, it can add up.

Anyway, there is some redundancy and backup capacity, but generally you use what you have. Sadly, the 10% thing is often still used as an excuse in science fiction shows for superpowers.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-31, 01:18 AM
Anyway, there is some redundancy and backup capacity, but generally you use what you have. Sadly, the 10% thing is often still used as an excuse in science fiction shows for superpowers.
Whatever happened to the good old days when all superpowers were from radiation?

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 01:24 AM
Whatever happened to the good old days when all superpowers were from radiation?

Like the Amazing Cancer-Man, and his sidekick the Chemo Kid?

danscope
2007-Nov-01, 06:16 PM
Dear Sir: Radiation kills. From the book " How to cut corners for fun and profit".
Best regards, Dan

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-01, 09:36 PM
Like the Amazing Cancer-Man, and his sidekick the Chemo Kid?
Well, that's why none of my superheroes got their powers from radiation, but you've got to go easy on Stan Lee. He just didn't know at the time.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-01, 10:05 PM
Well, that's why none of my superheroes got their powers from radiation, but you've got to go easy on Stan Lee. He just didn't know at the time.

One of the Marvel novels involving the Hulk actually combined realistic physics with science-fantasy; it describes Gamma Rays breaking the molecular bonds in Bruce Banner's cells, but because of a "unique genetic factor" his broken organic molecules rapidly self-organize in a new configuration, one that just happens to be stronger, bulkier and greener instead of, say, dead. :rolleyes:

kjp345
2007-Nov-01, 10:20 PM
The meaning of life... not having any credit card debt. :)

JohnBStone
2007-Nov-01, 11:11 PM
Shouldn't this be in ATM - where it might be considered a valid question?

Noclevername
2007-Nov-01, 11:34 PM
Shouldn't this be in ATM - where it might be considered a valid question?

Why? It's not a hypothesis.

Fisherman
2007-Nov-02, 05:44 PM
Science tried to explain man’s purpose on the planet Earth by theories of guessing, also religion tried to explain this puzzle with knowledge from the past. It is a personal choice to believe or not to believe but a person with open-mind he will knows difference between religious dogma and God. Man should know what God is just a place where 12 billion Spirits live as habitants and creators of the universe. In the Spirit’s world appeared a new idea competition is a better way in search for greater knowledge. The Spirits was curious where will leads creation if is allowed this new idea. Also the Spirits had the desire to experience Free Will and decided to conduct an experiment with new idea. The Spirits decided to create a world in perfect balance at the most realistic image of the Spirit’s world.

Four and half billion years ago the Spirits decided to create a unique Solar system in the Milky Way galaxy. The sole purpose for the creation of this solar system was to conduct an experiment on Free Will through unique life forms that would only exist on one planet. The Earth, one of the planets in the solar system, was chosen for this purpose. The Earth had to be replenished with many necessary elements for creating lives the planet was bombard with asteroids rich in elements. It take millions years to create a human from primate which contain of 98% DNA genetically similar to a man. Through all this time the Spirits constantly altered DNA form a primitive creature until man appeared as we see him today. Similar we find that man have also a desire, to have knowledge and makes effort to realize his idea, such; as a car 1909 Ford’s Model “T.” Men desired to make better car constantly enhanced it with new ideas by making better and better parts and the car became as we see it today. As we see the same rule applied in the Spirit’s as is in physical world, the Spirit and man have desire to create better things.

Man is a custodian of the planet and he was allowed to do anything as he wishes on the Earth. Results of this experiment that man led himself into self-destruction and he wills annihilate every life form on the planet Earth.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-02, 05:46 PM
...Okay, wow. That's just... wow.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Nov-02, 05:48 PM
It take millions years to create a human from primate which contain of 98% DNA genetically similar to a man. Through all this time the Spirits constantly altered DNA form a primitive creature until man appeared as we see him today.

Now where have I heard this before? :hand:

Noclevername
2007-Nov-02, 05:49 PM
Science tried to explain man’s purpose on the planet Earth

No. Flat-out wrong. Science does no such thing.

antoniseb
2007-Nov-02, 05:58 PM
Man should know what God is just a place where 12 billion Spirits live as habitants and creators of the universe.
It is very important that you follow the rules of this forum which forbid discussion of religion, except where it is specifically concerning astronomy or spaceflight. If you want to discuss astronomy and spaceflight, that's fine, but if religion is something you are compelled to speculate about in this forum, we will ban you, and you'll have to do your fishing elsewhere.

Fisherman
2007-Nov-02, 08:23 PM
Looks like a judgmental attitude to anyone who came up with different opinion. Take Albert Einstein for example when he came up with “Theory of relativity”. For Einstein’s findings his colleagues required physical evidence. Most of Einstein’s colleagues felt that his efforts were misguided and they therefore viewed them as unrealistic. Also Albert Einstein had visions and he saw in the universe a perfect ring science has proved existence of the ring. Also he said “God does not play dice with the world.”

People have habit to repeating words of great scientists over and over; we do not learn anything from it. But an individual in search for answers in an unconventional the same time he enhances the world of science. As Albert Einstein has visions of the universe also I saw the universe from the beginning of time to the end of time. You might call me a liar but never denied my visions or believes.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-02, 08:32 PM
For Einstein’s findings his colleagues required physical evidence.
Yes, that's how science works.

Also Albert Einstein had visions and he saw in the universe a perfect ring science has proved existence of the ring.

...the hell?


People have habit to repeating words of great scientists over and over; we do not learn anything from it. But an individual in search for answers in an unconventional the same time he enhances the world of science. As Albert Einstein has visions of the universe also I saw the universe from the beginning of time to the end of time. You might call me a liar but never denied my visions or believes.

Yum, word salad.

Tucson_Tim
2007-Nov-02, 09:14 PM
Also he said “God does not play dice with the world.”


Einstein was a great man. But it seems that "not only does God play with dice but sometimes he throws them where we can't see them". **

** Stephen Hawking (I think).

Noclevername
2007-Nov-03, 09:22 PM
The meaning of life... not having any credit card debt. :)

Setting the bar awfully low. So before credit cards, everyone's life was meaningless? ;)

Tucson_Tim
2007-Nov-03, 09:47 PM
So before credit cards, everyone's life was meaningless? ;)

True. Credit cards play no role in the meaningless of my life. :)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-03, 09:51 PM
I just do the best I can with life. Every once in a while I can help someone smile, or think. That's about the best "meaning" I can come up with.