PDA

View Full Version : NASA to Search Files on '65 UFO Incident



Fortunate
2007-Oct-27, 12:54 PM
NASA has agreed to search its archives once again for documents on a 1965 UFO incident in Pennsylvania, a step the space agency fought in federal court. The government has refused to open its files about what, if anything, moved across the sky and crashed in the woods near Kecksburg, Pa., 40 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

http://www.physorg.com/news112677036.html


Traffic was tied up in the area as curiosity seekers drove to the area, only to be kept away from the crash site by soldiers.

The Air Force's explanation for the unidentified flying object: a meteor or meteors.

"They could not find anything," one Air Force memo stated after a late-night search on Dec. 9, 1965. Several NASA employees also were reported to have been at the scene.

Eyewitnesses said a flatbed truck drove away a large object shaped like an acorn and about the size of a Volkswagen bus. A mock-up based on the descriptions of local residents sits behind the Kecksburg Volunteer Fire Department.

Grand_Lunar
2007-Oct-27, 01:28 PM
I wonder why they are wasting their time with this.

ZappBrannigan
2007-Oct-27, 02:11 PM
NASA must be reluctant to release the info because it has something to do with airline safety... :dance:

eburacum45
2007-Oct-27, 02:19 PM
A previous thread here;
http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/48508-kecksburg-case-proves-nasa-airforce-dishonesty.html

On balance, it looks like a non-event, but perhaps more information might be found in the archives. (kind of doubt it, actually).

astrophotographer
2007-Oct-27, 03:01 PM
I have an extensive article about the Kecksburg incident (http://members.aol.com/tprinty/Kecksburg.html)on my website. In summary, it was a meteor and there really never was all the activity that has been described in the past thirty years. Claims of NASA personnel and a huge army contingent arriving to investigate/retrieve a crashed UFO are just plain bunk. Another effort to create something out of nothing by crashed UFO proponents.

Fazor
2007-Oct-27, 03:53 PM
NASA must be reluctant to release the info because it has something to do with airline safety... :dance:

You're right; they're hiding the truth. They did an extensive one-day study and found that if a meteor struck an airplane, the plane could get damaged. The secret is out, NASA. Score one for the internet sleuths!

John Jones
2007-Oct-27, 05:50 PM
I have an extensive article about the Kecksburg incident (http://members.aol.com/tprinty/Kecksburg.html)on my website. In summary, it was a meteor and there really never was all the activity that has been described in the past thirty years. Claims of NASA personnel and a huge army contingent arriving to investigate/retrieve a crashed UFO are just plain bunk. Another effort to create something out of nothing by crashed UFO proponents.

I haven't read your site, but I did read that it was an errant soviet spacecraft/satellite, which could explain the secrecy.

astrophotographer
2007-Oct-27, 07:39 PM
I haven't read your site, but I did read that it was an errant soviet spacecraft/satellite, which could explain the secrecy.

No. That did not wash. The timing and orbits were off. This was proposed by Oberg in the 90s but he since dropped it. The whole event was triggered by a bright evening fireball that did not actually go anywhere near Kecksburg. Astronomers did a very thorough check of eyewitness reports and the fireball headed towards Canada and not Pennsylvania. The evidence was published long ago but you will never hear a peep out of UFO enthusiasts about the report.

Chip
2007-Oct-27, 10:42 PM
... The whole event was triggered by a bright evening fireball that did not actually go anywhere near Kecksburg. Astronomers did a very thorough check of eyewitness reports and the fireball headed towards Canada and not Pennsylvania. The evidence was published long ago but you will never hear a peep out of UFO enthusiasts about the report.
All NASA has to do now is go to a filing cabinet and pull out a manila folder with the report about the meteor in it. Should take 5 minutes.

Unless NASA only has that info in a computer file, then it could take time.

Trakar
2007-Oct-27, 10:50 PM
I have an extensive article about the Kecksburg incident (http://members.aol.com/tprinty/Kecksburg.html)on my website. In summary, it was a meteor and there really never was all the activity that has been described in the past thirty years. Claims of NASA personnel and a huge army contingent arriving to investigate/retrieve a crashed UFO are just plain bunk. Another effort to create something out of nothing by crashed UFO proponents.

Greetings! I thought your activity on AOL was kaput. I've often referenced various of your postings in ongoing discussions over in AOL's Astronomy messageboards. Its good to see that you've updated and added some info in the last couple of years.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-27, 11:28 PM
Oh, puh-leez. UnMuseum.com says that that incident was nothing more than a meteor.

astrophotographer
2007-Oct-27, 11:56 PM
All NASA has to do now is go to a filing cabinet and pull out a manila folder with the report about the meteor in it. Should take 5 minutes.

Unless NASA only has that info in a computer file, then it could take time.

I discussed this problem on my webpage. Because of the interest of the Sci-Fi channel's "investigative" team headed by Leslie Kean, there was a request for NASA to provide any info they had on the incident since some witnesses recall seeing NASA personnel at the location. NASA stated that if they had anything it would have been in their Fragology files, which were recoveries of objects from space (mostly of the Soviet kind). The summary sheet of these files listed nothing from Kecksburg although the numbering system indicated some numbers were not used or deleted. As best can be told the box of these documents/items was lost in 1987. When you think about all the decades of documentation that has to be maintained by NASA, there really is nothing sinister here but you won't hear that from UFOlogists.

To add to the confusion on the matter you have a PR guy for NASA saying:

As a rule, we don't track UFOs. What we could do, and what we apparently did as experts in spacecraft in the 1960s, was to take a look at whatever it was and give our expert opinion. We did that, we boxed (the case) up and that was the end of it. Unfortunately, the documents supporting those findings were misplaced.

His statement is not exactly convincing in stating they ACTUALLY DID study the event. He suggested that IF they had been involved, they would have done the study being the experts on the subject. UFOlogists have taken this statement as admission of direct involvement by NASA.

You have to understand what UFOlogists are stating about this entire case. They want everyone to believe that NASA and the Army responded to an event right away and dispatched tons of equipment and personnel to a remote area of Pennsylvania within an hour or two of the event being reported with no prior planning. Then, within 8 hours, they had removed the object to a new location and cleaned up the entire area so nobody would know what happened. For this to happen today, would have required an extraordinary effort. For this to happen in 1965, was almost impossible.

astrophotographer
2007-Oct-28, 12:00 AM
Greetings! I thought your activity on AOL was kaput. I've often referenced various of your postings in ongoing discussions over in AOL's Astronomy messageboards. Its good to see that you've updated and added some info in the last couple of years.

I stopped wasting time on the AOL boards and other places. They are pointless arguments that never resolve anything. I continue to maintain the website and I occassionally post here to present information I consider relevant. I also will post when a CTer gets loose in this forum peddling nonsense about Roswell, etc.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-28, 12:03 AM
I also will post when a CTer gets loose in this forum peddling nonsense about Roswell, etc.
Like King Arthur, eh? You'll return when we need you most.

casey10s
2007-Oct-28, 03:01 AM
With some people around Pittsburgh, there is also a story floating around that a missile was accidently launched from the Pgh area.

Who really knows what happened?

One of the people who retired from our place a few years is a member of the Kecksburg VFD and I think he believes in the UFO angle.

astrophotographer
2007-Oct-28, 02:16 PM
With some people around Pittsburgh, there is also a story floating around that a missile was accidently launched from the Pgh area.

Who really knows what happened?

One of the people who retired from our place a few years is a member of the Kecksburg VFD and I think he believes in the UFO angle.


Bob Young did a lot of investigating into this. I have talked to him numerous times and he stated that the real fire chief at the time (somebody said they were the fire chief in the myth but they weren't), says nothing extraordinary happened at the time. If you saw the Sci-Fi program, the town hall meeting had people split on what happened. Some say that others are exaggerating and some say it happened. I have always found it strange that the media of the time just reported a relatively ordinary event (despite claims of cover-ups and secrecy). Do you really think the media would be quiet if a massive military involvement was involved that night. Think about the congestion of traffic caused by moving large military equipment (which include personnel carriers of the tracked kind) through the area and have numerous troops scrambled to a small area in Pennsylvania. The media was completely quiet on this matter. The real truth is that a few members from a nearby Air Force radar station showed up when directed by Bluebook to do so. They arrived late in the evening several hours after the "crash" was reported in the media. They reported they found nothing.

Orion437
2007-Oct-28, 10:56 PM
Wow this case never dies.

I think that more than 40 years later, itīs too late to know exactly what happend there.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-29, 12:41 AM
I think that more than 40 years later, itīs too late to know exactly what happend there.
Well, we weren't important to be invited, so does it matter? ;-D

PetersCreek
2007-Oct-29, 05:37 PM
All NASA has to do now is go to a filing cabinet and pull out a manila folder with the report about the meteor in it. Should take 5 minutes.

You mean something like, "Kecksburg '65? Oh yeah...file cabinet in the corner, third drawer down. Folder with the coffe stain." :whistle:

As a records custodian, with experience in both military and civil service, I'd suggest to you that's not likely so simple. If the records were scheduled for permanent retention, they were boxed and archived many years ago. Based on my experieces in dealing with the National Personnel Records Center, retreivals are often not so simple nor quick...if they're productive at all. I'm not familiar with NASA's system of records but I'd be surprised to learn that it's remarkably different.

JayUtah
2007-Oct-29, 06:50 PM
Remember that NASA is a loose federation of largely autonomous centers. How and where the records are stored depends largely on which center is alleged to have done the investigation. There may not be much uniformity from center to center.

PetersCreek
2007-Oct-30, 04:56 PM
How and where the records are stored depends largely on which center is alleged to have done the investigation. There may not be much uniformity from center to center.

Agreed. Standards do vary greatly from agency to agency. Mine is pretty heavily stove-piped along "lines of business but we do have agency-wide guidance for records management. However, our structures and methods are hardly a template for government organization. Far from it. So, it isn't a large leap for me to imagine that there might be significant differences between compartmentalized divisions within an agency.

I think it's more than just a question about which activity conducted the investigation but also about which activity is/was the Office of Primarly Responsiblity (OPR) for the resulting record. We'd also need to know what the retention and disposition schedule is for those records. Some folks (CTists especially, it seems) labor under the misconception that any and every piece of paper created by the government can (or should) be retrieved at will. It just ain't so.

For instance, my office generates investigative reports which are forwarded to an upper echelon. We're not the OPR, so we keep only a file copy...but not forever and ever. Even the original files (depending on type) may be destroyed after a specified period of time. You certainly won't find any 40-year-old files in my office. No useful administrative or governmental purpose would be acheived by doing so.

So, maybe the files were retained but lost...or maybe there were retained for a time, then destroyed. Based on Astrophotographer's description, I would wonder what's so significant about the event that it would warrant permanent retention of the records.