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Gemini
2007-Oct-29, 03:30 AM
This could be interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Asteroid_Mission

Noclevername
2007-Oct-29, 03:50 AM
That's great! I'll believe it when I see it, though.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-29, 04:35 AM
The mission would start like that of any standard Constellation lunar landing mission
You gotta love how casually they talk about "standard" Lunar missions that haven't happened yet using a ship that hasn't been built.

Van Rijn
2007-Oct-30, 11:38 PM
This does emphasize that there are some NEO asteroids that are fairly accessible with low delta v requirements. That's important for space development: The moon is handy as a nearby source of material, but appears to be be volatile poor. I could easily see expanded "sample return" robot missions to NEO asteroids to return material that could be used fairly early in Earth orbit. Asteroid mining might happen before lunar mining.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-30, 11:44 PM
This does emphasize that there are some NEO asteroids that are fairly accessible with low delta v requirements. That's important for space development: The moon is handy as a nearby source of material, but appears to be be volatile poor. I could easily see expanded "sample return" robot missions to NEO asteroids to return material that could be used fairly early in Earth orbit. Asteroid mining might happen before lunar mining.

It's an area that definitely needs to be developed more. I hope that this is the start of a series of missions... Assuming this one actually happens, that is.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-31, 12:58 AM
There was an article about this in this month's PopSci.

You gotta love how casually they talk about "standard" Lunar missions that haven't happened yet using a ship that hasn't been built.
It's a bit like saying
"When I win that contest, I will give all of my money to you." when the contest is still three days away. Thinking it encourages you to do your best and try to achieve it.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 01:05 AM
It's a bit like saying
"When I win that contest, I will give all of my money to you." when the contest is still three days away. Thinking it encourages you to do your best and try to achieve it.

Well, positivism can sometimes be a good thing, but when it depends on the whims of a politically-controlled organization, I have difficulty being optimistic, based on how they've handled things recently. Plans change with every election; no, scratch that, they change with every handshake in Congress.

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-31, 01:07 AM
Well, positivism can sometimes be a good thing, but when it depends on the whims of a politically-controlled organization, I have difficulty being optimistic, based on how they've handled things recently. Plans change with every election; no, scratch that, they change with every handshake in Congress.
If you can't smile, act it and think happy thoughts and soon you'll be smiling for real.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 01:12 AM
If you can't smile, act it and think happy thoughts and soon you'll be smiling for real.

...Now my face hurts and I'm still a pessimist. ;)

KaiYeves
2007-Oct-31, 01:16 AM
...Now my face hurts and I'm still a pessimist.
Okay, after you read this post, shut your eyes and take a deep breath in, counting one, two, three. Then hold it for one, two, three and breathe out one, two, three. Get used to this rhythm, then visualise landing your Orion craft on an asteroid. Imagine steping onto the surface... saying the historic first words of a person on an asteroid... jumping around in the really, really light gravity. Fun, isn't it?
Know that you will always have this vision, and it will sustain you until it becomes reality.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 01:22 AM
Okay, after you read this post, shut your eyes and take a deep breath in, counting one, two, three. Then hold it for one, two, three and breathe out one, two, three.

Om... Om... On the range...


Get used to this rhythm, then visualise landing your Orion craft
...or whatever replaces it when it's cancelled...

on an asteroid. Imagine steping onto the surface... saying the historic first words of a person on an asteroid...

"I think I stepped in something."


jumping around in the really, really light gravity. Fun, isn't it?
Know that you will always have this vision, and it will sustain you until it becomes reality. I better start the longevity treatments soon, then.

novaderrik
2007-Oct-31, 01:59 AM
i don't think i'd want to be doing too much jumping around on an asteroid.
i know Bruce Willis did it, but a fairly healthy leap would probably put you in orbit around it.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 02:51 AM
i don't think i'd want to be doing too much jumping around on an asteroid.
i know Bruce Willis did it, but a fairly healthy leap would probably put you in orbit around it.

In that movie, there was a lot of unrealistic physics. Not to mention the downright silliness of driving a wheeled vehicle across the surface of an asteroid/comet head that was visibly jagged and uneven even when seen from hundreds of thousands of miles away!

Damburger
2007-Oct-31, 12:41 PM
It is a bit premature talking about such applications when precisely zero elements of the Ares/Orion system have flown.

Noclevername
2007-Oct-31, 09:58 PM
Assuming Apophis is their target, how long would such a trip take?

Warren Platts
2007-Nov-01, 12:48 AM
Why would you all think that NEO asteroids would have more volatiles than the Moon, especially since their perogees are typically closer to the Sun than the Moon's.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-01, 01:02 AM
i don't think i'd want to be doing too much jumping around on an asteroid.
Me either, actually. Doesn't jumping off a comet nucleus send you up so high it takes two weeks to fall back down?

Noclevername
2007-Nov-01, 02:04 AM
Me either, actually. Doesn't jumping off a comet nucleus send you up so high it takes two weeks to fall back down?

Depends on how high you jump, and how strong the local g is (can vary by orders of magnitude.)

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-01, 03:18 AM
Why would you all think that NEO asteroids would have more volatiles than the Moon, especially since their perogees are typically closer to the Sun than the Moon's.

It depends on the asteroid (iron nickel asteroids wouldn't be good candidates, for example), but a key difference is how the moon was formed. NEO asteroids originally come from the main belt, and from meteorites it appears some would be decent sources for volatiles. By the way, that doesn't mean iceballs, but minerals where you would at least some carbon, hydrogen, and so forth..

Noclevername
2007-Nov-01, 04:03 AM
In theory a comet with water ice and other useful volatiles could be diverted to become a NEO; it would require a great deal of energy, but you'd have plenty of reaction mass at hand.

mugaliens
2007-Nov-01, 08:03 AM
Depends on how high you jump, and how strong the local g is (can vary by orders of magnitude.)

In his book involving the twins Castor and Pollux (can't recall the name), Heinlein calculated that it just might be possible (given a less cumbersome spacesuit than we have today) to run (more like skip, actually), fast enough on one of Mars' moons to achieve escape velocity.

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-01, 08:15 AM
In his book involving the twins Castor and Pollux (can't recall the name), Heinlein calculated that it just might be possible (given a less cumbersome spacesuit than we have today) to run (more like skip, actually), fast enough on one of Mars' moons to achieve escape velocity.

The novel is Rolling Stones and I believe they were on Phobos.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-01, 07:27 PM
The novel is Rolling Stones and I believe they were on Phobos.

The one where they sold bicycles on Mars. :D And Flatcats, the Tribbles of their day.

ADDED: They had a bit about asteroid mining there too, but it dates very badly. Back then the accepted theory was that the Belt was the remains of a planet.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-01, 10:15 PM
In his book involving the twins Castor and Pollux (can't recall the name), Heinlein calculated that it just might be possible (given a less cumbersome spacesuit than we have today) to run (more like skip, actually), fast enough on one of Mars' moons to achieve escape velocity.
In the introduction to Comet, there is a description of walking on a cometary nucleus and being careful not to jump too high or you will not come down for a few weeks. The comet isn't named.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-01, 11:48 PM
Why would you all think that NEO asteroids would have more volatiles than the Moon, especially since their perogees are typically closer to the Sun than the Moon's.

Time. The Moon's been sitting this close to the Sun a lot longer than most NEOs. It's had a lot longer to boil and bake off its volatiles.