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DyerWolf
2007-Nov-16, 03:59 PM
At the risk of being "ToSeeked" (and treading lightly on the forum's rules re: religion) I think some folks would be interested in this:

Flying Spaghetti Monster on the agenda for American Academy of Religion's annual meeting (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311925,00.html)


For a lot of people they're just sort of fun responses to religion, or fun responses to organized religion. But I think it raises real questions about how people approach religion in their lives," said Samuel Snyder, one of the three Florida graduate students who will give talks at the meeting next Monday along with Alyssa Beall of Syracuse University.

The presenters' titles seem almost a parody themselves of academic jargon.

Snyder will speak about "Holy Pasta and Authentic Sauce: The Flying Spaghetti Monster's Messy Implications for Theorizing Religion," while Gavin Van Horn's presentation is titled "Noodling around With Religion: Carnival Play, Monstrous Humor and the Noodly Master."

Using a framework developed by literary critic Mikhail Bakhtin, Van Horn promises in his abstract to explore how, "in a carnivalesque fashion, the Flying Spaghetti Monster elevates the low (the bodily, the material, the inorganic) to bring down the high (the sacred, the religiously dogmatic, the culturally authoritative)."

The authors recognize the topic is a little light by the standards of the American Academy of Religion.

"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion, especially in graduate school,"


Anyone in San Diego interested in the topic might think about stopping by...

Peptron
2007-Nov-16, 05:15 PM
"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion"

That got to be the most true quote ever.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-16, 05:50 PM
"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion"

That got to be the most true quote ever.

And yet, somehow, so few do.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-16, 08:46 PM
"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion"
Humor, like religion, helps us make our way through life.

Chuck
2007-Nov-16, 09:40 PM
Parody? Oops! I have an inquisition and two jihads to apologize for.

crosscountry
2007-Nov-17, 12:41 AM
I never did buy one of those shirts.

01101001
2007-Nov-17, 02:30 AM
I never did buy one of those shirts.

'Tis the season.

Speaking of which, for tree decoration, spotted in the BA Blog: the FSM tree ornament (http://www.nifnaks.com/creations-shop/christmas/flying-spaghetti-monster-tree-ornament/detailed-product-flyer.html) (Also available there: Cthulhu.)

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-17, 02:40 AM
Parody? Oops! I have an inquisition and two jihads to apologize for.
Did they make you wear a mask and train with swords, too? ;-)

crosscountry
2007-Nov-17, 02:54 PM
yea, maybe I should. I really do like the idea of FSM

Noclevername
2007-Nov-17, 04:40 PM
A friend of mine's father (who was a minister) had a bumper sticker that said "I have found the Lord! (He's in the trunk of my car.)" !!

Who prints these stickers, and are they still in business?

novaderrik
2007-Nov-17, 09:53 PM
i don't know why, but i just thought of thato ne country song, called "red dirt road" or something like that.

"it's where i drank my first beer..
it's where i found Jesus..
it's where i wrecked my first car,
i tore it all to pieces."


i always wonder if it happened in that chronological order, and if Someone might have been doing his "water to wine (beer)" trick on the back roads of Georgia one night with some rowdy minors looking for a good time...

crosscountry
2007-Nov-17, 10:48 PM
exactly my thought. I heard that song for the first time and wondered the same thing.

Maksutov
2007-Nov-18, 12:13 PM
exactly my thought. I heard that song for the first time and wondered the same thing.One of my favorite bumper stickers during the 1970s looked like this:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/27/honkifyourejesussd9.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=honkifyourejesussd9.jpg)

undidly
2007-Nov-18, 01:37 PM
I read of an asylum which had three Jesus's there .For an experiment they were
housed in the same room.After three days it was found that one had concluded that he might not be Jesus but the other two still believed they were.If there was no religion would they just believe other nonsense or did religion cause these beliefs?.Why is this taught to children?.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-18, 03:03 PM
I read of an asylum which had three Jesus's there .For an experiment they were
housed in the same room.After three days it was found that one had concluded that he might not be Jesus but the other two still believed they were.If there was no religion would they just believe other nonsense or did religion cause these beliefs?.Why is this taught to children?.

It's taught to children because the adults who teach it believe it to be true, because they were taught it as children. An effective meme that insures its own replication.

If there was no religion, there'd be something else just like it. Just look at the USSR's history; political dogma replaced religious dogma.

Kaptain K
2007-Nov-18, 04:01 PM
"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion"

"God is a comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh."

Rene Descarte

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-18, 05:55 PM
I read of an asylum which had three Jesus's there.
In The Cosmic Connection, there is a section about reciving a letter from an insane guy who thought he had found the Greek Gods in his asylum.

Kaptain K
2007-Nov-18, 09:37 PM
I read of an asylum which had three Jesus's there.
The story I heard (from a psychiatrist) was of two patients who both thought that they were Jesus being put in the same room. After a week, one had decided that he was John the Baptist!

Chuck
2007-Nov-18, 11:55 PM
If I hurry, maybe I can be the first loony to believe he's really The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Gillianren
2007-Nov-19, 01:30 AM
Very few mentally ill people actually believe they're anyone else than who they are.

crosscountry
2007-Nov-19, 02:12 AM
If I hurry, maybe I can be the first loony to believe he's really The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

:lol: :clap:

Noclevername
2007-Nov-19, 03:12 AM
If I hurry, maybe I can be the first loony to believe he's really The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Probably already too late. :)

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-19, 05:17 AM
I read of an asylum which had three Jesus's there.
One day they got out of the asylum and headed for the local bar.

Bartender: "You know, we don't often see three Jesuses at the same time here."

Asylum Jesus #1: "Verily I say unto thee, at these prices thou shalt see no more."

;)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-19, 05:23 AM
Verily I say unto thee, that Jesus sounds like a Shakespearean actor, not an ancient Nazarene.

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-19, 05:30 AM
Verily I say unto thee, that Jesus sounds like a Shakespearean actor, not an ancient Nazarene.
That's because they all spoke stilted King James English in biblical times! ;)

By the way, congratulations on reaching 6,000 posts, which should happen some time after I post this.

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-19, 05:44 AM
By the way, congratulations on reaching 6,000 posts, which should happen some time after I post this.

That sounds like a challenge of sorts, so I just had to post this (should be my post 8,000). Of course, I do well to average around 6 posts a day, so it's a temporary victory. :lol:

Maksutov
2007-Nov-19, 09:06 AM
I read of an asylum which had three Jesus's there.In The Cosmic Connection, there is a section about reciving a letter from an insane guy who thought he had found the Greek Gods in his asylum.OK, what's your point?

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-19, 01:47 PM
That sounds like a challenge of sorts, so I just had to post this (should be my post 8,000). Of course, I do well to average around 6 posts a day, so it's a temporary victory. :lol:
Congratulations on reaching your 8,000 post! :)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-19, 04:15 PM
That's because they all spoke stilted King James English in biblical times! ;)

By the way, congratulations on reaching 6,000 posts, which should happen some time after I post this.

Thanks, I missed seeing the actual 6,000 mark, this one right here is 6,007. After only a few months.

KaiYeves will be passing me in about a week, I think. :)

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-19, 10:08 PM
OK, what's your point?
No point, just wanted to share that because it sounded related. After getting to the part where the crazy guy actually got thrown into the asylum, the author made the funniest comment:
"I think we can all agree, regardless of his motives, that he was taking the appropriate action."

Noclevername
2007-Nov-20, 12:12 AM
"I think we can all agree, regardless of his motives, that he was taking the appropirate action."

Because you wouldn't want an amateur pirate action. :D

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-20, 05:56 AM
So many people hitting posting milestones of various sorts: Noclevername at 6,000, Van Rijn at 8,000, Maksutov at 13,000, and as noted in another thread, Sticks has surpassed one kilopi (3,142) of posts.

Verily I say congratulations to one and all! :)

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-20, 09:53 AM
Thanks, CM. And, I just noticed Nereid at 9002 as I post this. Obviously, it can't be coincidence. It must be a CONSPIRACY! :)

Along the same lines, it's funny how often I end up posting at the same time as someone else, so you see two similar posts with the same time stamp.

crosscountry
2007-Nov-20, 02:25 PM
So many people hitting posting milestones of various sorts: Noclevername at 6,000, Van Rijn at 8,000, Maksutov at 13,000, and as noted in another thread, Sticks has surpassed one kilopi (3,142) of posts.

Verily I say congratulations to one and all! :)

hey, I got my kPi last week :D

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-20, 08:00 PM
Since this is just a fun thread and not a serious discussion on a taboo topic, can I post this?

THREE ARGUMENTS THAT JESUS WAS IRISH :
- HE NEVER GOT MARRIED
- HE NEVER HELD A STEADY JOB
- HIS LAST REQUEST WAS A DRINK


THREE ARGUMENTS THAT JESUS WAS PUERTO RICAN:
- HIS FIRST NAME WAS JESUS
- HE WAS ALWAYS IN TROUBLE WITH THE LAW
- HIS MOTHER DIDN'T KNOW WHO HIS FATHER WAS


THREE ARGUMENTS THAT JESUS WAS ITALIAN:
- HE TALKED WITH HIS HANDS
- HE HAD WINE WITH EVERY MEAL
- HE WORKED IN THE BUILDING TRADES

THREE ARGUMENTS THAT JESUS WAS BLACK:
- HE CALLED EVERYBODY BROTHER
- HE HAD NO PERMANENT ADDRESS
- NOBODY WOULD HIRE HIM


THREE ARGUMENTS THAT JESUS WAS CALIFORNIAN:
- HE NEVER CUT HIS HAIR
- HE WALKED AROUND BAREFOOT
- HE INVENTED A NEW RELIGION


AND FINALLY, THE PROOF THAT JESUS WAS IRANIAN:
- HE WENT INTO HIS FATHER'S BUSINESS
- HE LIVED AT HOME UNTIL THE AGE OF 33
- HE WAS SURE HIS MOTHER WAS A VIRGIN, AND HIS MOTHER WAS SURE HE WAS
GOD .

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-20, 08:01 PM
Parody? Oops! I have an inquisition and two jihads to apologize for.

What KIND of inquisition?

Noclevername
2007-Nov-20, 08:02 PM
What KIND of inquisition?

An unexpected kind...

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-20, 08:06 PM
Very few mentally ill people actually believe they're anyone else than who they are.

But even if it's only 1 in a thousand, that's still tens of thousands who think they are somebody else. I wonder how many think they are somebody else who also thinks they are somebody else? Maybe they could do a 10,000-thousand-way trade and all get back to where they belong? Mentally that is.

tofu
2007-Nov-20, 08:29 PM
If there was no religion would they just believe other nonsense

It's just part of our psyche that we have the capability to experience "religious" feelings of intense connectedness, belonging, oneness etc. In The God Delusion, Dawkings sugests that it's related to our capacity for romantic love, and therefore, its purpose is to bond a mated couple for long enough to ween a child.

But to answer your question, if there was no religion then the first person to climb a mountain or look up at the stars would trigger that part of the brain, feel the religious experience, and then (in their struggle to understand what just happened) invite other people to join in, and guess what that would lead to . . .religion.


Why is this taught to children?.

Because it works. It makes people feel good. People for whom it doesn't work don't teach it to their children.

Yeah, I know, it's a little more complicated than that.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-20, 08:33 PM
Because it works. It makes people feel good. People for whom it doesn't work don't teach it to their children.

Yeah, I know, it's a little more complicated than that.

Kind of like wife-beating in certain cultures. It works, it makes them feel good (the beater at least), and they teach it to their children - complete with instructions for proper administration.

tofu
2007-Nov-20, 09:13 PM
Kind of like wife-beating

sure. It's a meme. It perpetuates itself for a reason. Adding lead to wine was a popular meme for the Romans, but it was unable to perpetuate itself (though I've always wanted to try it).

Gillianren
2007-Nov-20, 11:02 PM
But even if it's only 1 in a thousand, that's still tens of thousands who think they are somebody else. I wonder how many think they are somebody else who also thinks they are somebody else? Maybe they could do a 10,000-thousand-way trade and all get back to where they belong? Mentally that is.

But it's not one in a thousand. It might be one in a million--and that's just of mentally ill people, mind. It's far, far more common for a mentally ill person to think other people, even famous ones, are talking to them. They might think they are someone more imporant than they are, but it's very seldom a specific someone more important in the sense of being someone who actually existed. It's simply not how mental illness works.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-20, 11:58 PM
But for those few who do have specific delusions of being a famous personage, Jesus is probably one of, if not the most popular choice.

Gillianren
2007-Nov-21, 12:17 AM
But for those few who do have specific delusions of being a famous personage, Jesus is probably one of, if not the most popular choice.

Probably, though I doubt there are statistics on it.

crosscountry
2007-Nov-21, 01:27 AM
But it's not one in a thousand. It might be one in a million--and that's just of mentally ill people, mind. It's far, far more common for a mentally ill person to think other people, even famous ones, are talking to them. They might think they are someone more imporant than they are, but it's very seldom a specific someone more important in the sense of being someone who actually existed. It's simply not how mental illness works.


how do you know so much? I know very little about crazy people. :D

Gillianren
2007-Nov-21, 03:02 AM
how do you know so much? I know very little about crazy people. :D

Heh. It helps, rather, to be a crazy person!

In all seriousness, people who are both crazy and intelligent tend to research mental illness. A lot. Wherever two or more of us are gathered together, there are we discussing meds we've been on and their side effects. Or something.

Maksutov
2007-Nov-21, 03:38 AM
So many people hitting posting milestones of various sorts: Noclevername at 6,000, Van Rijn at 8,000, Maksutov at 13,000, and as noted in another thread, Sticks has surpassed one kilopi (3,142) of posts.

Verily I say congratulations to one and all! :)Thanks, CM!

And it's true, it's a conspiracy.

And that's all I am allowed to say.

And if I start one more sentence with "and", the wrath of Gillianren will descend upon my head.

And the heads of all my male descendants.

Uh-oh...

http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/frech/s015.gif

crosscountry
2007-Nov-21, 03:00 PM
Heh. It helps, rather, to be a crazy person!

In all seriousness, people who are both crazy and intelligent tend to research mental illness. A lot. Wherever two or more of us are gathered together, there are we discussing meds we've been on and their side effects. Or something.

I had a script for welbutrin once. that lasted about 2 weeks. I prefer to not take pills.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 03:21 PM
I had a script for welbutrin once. that lasted about 2 weeks. I prefer to not take pills.

I prefer not to wear glasses. The walls I bump into disagree with me.

crosscountry
2007-Nov-21, 03:23 PM
I guess I'm lucky that I don't need any pills. I take maybe 2 aspirin a month, usually less.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-21, 03:26 PM
Just a few vitamins after I brush my teeth, and those I don't really need, and don't take them when I travel.

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-21, 03:30 PM
But for those few who do have specific delusions of being a famous personage, Jesus is probably one of, if not the most popular choice.

And why always someone famous, usually really really famous. How come they never think they are Bob down at the corner hardware store? Or the coffee shop waitron?

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-21, 03:32 PM
In all seriousness, people who are both crazy and intelligent tend to research mental illness. A lot.

That was good for a hearty chuckle. Thank you. No insult intended mind you, it just struck me as a very humorous thing. Glad to see you have that.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 03:32 PM
And why always someone famous, usually really really famous. How come they never think they are Bob down at the corner hardware store? Or the coffee shop waitron?

It may be more common that they think they are --or can become-- someone they know, in the case of stalker/Single White Female situations, than that they are a historical individual.

tofu
2007-Nov-21, 03:56 PM
And why always someone famous, usually really really famous. How come they never think they are Bob down at the corner hardware store? Or the coffee shop waitron?

Have you ever had the experience, after watching a particularly good movie, of repeating the lines in your head, or even aloud? And maybe you change lines a bit so that the hero (at this point, you imagining that you're the hero) does a little better? I think we all do that. Schizophrenics simply can't turn it off. But you almost always do that with the hero, right? You imagine you're Han Solo, not C3PO.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-21, 04:00 PM
Have you ever had the experience, after watching a particularly good movie, of repeating the lines in your head, or even aloud?
Yes.

Ilya
2007-Nov-21, 04:06 PM
But it's not one in a thousand. It might be one in a million--and that's just of mentally ill people, mind. It's far, far more common for a mentally ill person to think other people, even famous ones, are talking to them. They might think they are someone more imporant than they are, but it's very seldom a specific someone more important in the sense of being someone who actually existed.

I would say a lot of sane people (at least by current psychiatric definition) think they are more important than they actually are... :)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 04:48 PM
But you almost always do that with the hero, right? You imagine you're Han Solo, not C3PO.

Although it might be more entertaining to see a ward full of C3POs.

HenrikOlsen
2007-Nov-21, 05:41 PM
Actually I think it would be even better with a ward full of R2D2s.

Stuart van Onselen
2007-Nov-21, 05:52 PM
... discussing meds we've been on and their side effects....

Dry mouth. Can get very unpleasant, especially if I exercise. (Fortunately I am a lazy sod, so I seldom exercise.) Nevertheless, after one strenuous wall-climb, I quipped to my wife that I'd even have tackled Dwayne Johnson if he had dared to stand between me and my water-bottle!

There are other side-effects, too, which I will not reveal here as I was stupid enough to use my own name when registering. :doh:

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 05:59 PM
Various meds/combos have side effects on me ranging from 20-hour sleep, to lack of concentration, to violent vomiting, to uncontrollable rage. I'm apparently unusually sensitive to relatively low doses.

Gillianren
2007-Nov-21, 06:45 PM
I would say a lot of sane people (at least by current psychiatric definition) think they are more important than they actually are... :)

True, true.

I'm currently side effect-free, myself. I'm on 50 mg daily of Lamictal, to be bumped up to as much as, I believe, 400 mg or until I start to show improvement. The biggest problem I had the last time I was on it (my current psychiatrist doesn't think my dose was ever high enough) is that the pills are shield-shaped. It's not a problem with the 25 mg pills, because they're tiny, but the bigger ones are a choking hazard.

When I was on Wellbutrin, it sped up my mood swing cycle until I was 25 minutes up and 25 minutes down like clockwork. That was awful.

Stuart van Onselen
2007-Nov-21, 07:03 PM
It's fascinating (not to mention frustrating) how the same med, prescribed for people with the same conditions, can have such radically different effects from person to person.

<touch wood>I've never had a serious adverse reaction to anything, but I know people who have - SSRIs are wonder-drugs, and very effective, but they are decidedly not to be taken without close monitoring!

farmerjumperdon
2007-Nov-21, 07:04 PM
Have you ever had the experience, after watching a particularly good movie, of repeating the lines in your head, or even aloud? And maybe you change lines a bit so that the hero (at this point, you imagining that you're the hero) does a little better? I think we all do that. Schizophrenics simply can't turn it off. But you almost always do that with the hero, right? You imagine you're Han Solo, not C3PO.

Lines do get stuck in my head, but I don't imagine I'm the character. I could see that if you did that, and really thought you were the person, or didn't recognize you were not the character, it could be a problem.

Imagine the difficulties if you really thought you were Spiderman, or Superman.

Which leads me to another little bit of wondering. If a person really thinks they are Jesus, or Superman, or some such person/character/diety; how do they reconcile that with only having the abilities of a mere mortal?

Gillianren
2007-Nov-21, 07:52 PM
Which leads me to another little bit of wondering. If a person really thinks they are Jesus, or Superman, or some such person/character/diety; how do they reconcile that with only having the abilities of a mere mortal?

In those very, very rare occasions--and I still don't think you guys realize exactly how rare it is!--they actually believe they have those abilities and just aren't using them.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 08:35 PM
Which leads me to another little bit of wondering. If a person really thinks they are Jesus, or Superman, or some such person/character/diety; how do they reconcile that with only having the abilities of a mere mortal?

The same way people can reconcile denying proven facts when they can see the evidence, or believing in utter nonsense that is impossible; cognitive dissonance. Choosing to ignore whatever contradicts your worldview.

hewhocaves
2007-Nov-21, 08:49 PM
I must confess I have strayed from the true faith. I have been sick all week and to get better I have eaten many helpings of meatballs, vodka sauce and... and... tortellini!!!!

I need to go to the nearest Olive Garden for confession now :P

Noclevername
2007-Nov-21, 09:01 PM
I'm a non-practicing FSMist. It just got too preachy for me. :D

novaderrik
2007-Nov-22, 03:33 AM
Have you ever had the experience, after watching a particularly good movie, of repeating the lines in your head, or even aloud? And maybe you change lines a bit so that the hero (at this point, you imagining that you're the hero) does a little better? I think we all do that. Schizophrenics simply can't turn it off. But you almost always do that with the hero, right? You imagine you're Han Solo, not C3PO.

i sometimes think i'm Gabby Johnson-the guy on the roof in Blazing Saddles- when the new sheriff is riding into town..

i talk and talk and talk, but no one understands what i'm saying because someone keeps ringing the dang church bell at just the wrong time.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-22, 04:28 AM
Wellbutrin, IIRC, was the one that made me throw up. Not like regular nausea where you know it's coming, just sudden, violent stomach spasms, hard enough to hurt, out of nowhere.

Celestial Mechanic
2007-Nov-22, 05:21 AM
I'm a non-practicing FSMist. [Snip!]
How do you ever expect to get good at it? :D

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-22, 05:30 AM
I'm a non-practicing FSMist. It just got too preachy for me. :D

I've found that most Pastafarians who leave do it because the weight of their beliefs become to great for them to bear.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-22, 05:58 AM
I've found that most Pastafarians who leave do it because the weight of their beliefs become to great for them to bear.

My weight is already too much to bare, and people should thank me for not doing so.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-22, 03:47 PM
When I was in kindergarten, I had a lot of fun at recess pretending to be a tiger and crawling around in the bushes. Needless to say, I was playing all by myself. The result?
Years and years of counciling for "antisocial-ness".

Gillianren
2007-Nov-22, 07:27 PM
Wellbutrin, IIRC, was the one that made me throw up. Not like regular nausea where you know it's coming, just sudden, violent stomach spasms, hard enough to hurt, out of nowhere.

Well, that's no fun. On the other hand, my sister swears by the stuff. (Someone once asked me how much weight I gained on it; since I was on it for something like five days, not much.)