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Glom
2007-Nov-25, 11:30 PM
Does putting a hot actress into a catsuit actually boost the ratings? I mean with all the ample opportunities to see scantily clad woman, is anyone really going to turn on a scifi show because you might get a bit of nip.

Why the catsuit anyway? Surely something more subtle could achieve the T&A objective while not appearing so garish that it puts off people who would want to watch it for more serious reasons.

When they put Counselor Troi into a proper uniform mid season six, things became much better because we all of a sudden started to take her seriously. It would never have worked to have Troi training to become a bridge officer in season seven if she was still wearing the bunny suit.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 12:37 AM
Surely something more subtle could achieve the T&A objective while not appearing so garish that it puts off people who would want to watch it for more serious reasons.


Subtle? TV? I know the words, but they don't go together that way....

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 12:41 AM
When they put Counselor Troi into a proper uniform mid season six, things became much better because we all of a sudden started to take her seriously. It would never have worked to have Troi training to become a bridge officer in season seven if she was still wearing the bunny suit.

That could also have something more to do with the fact that the show was hitting its stride as far as scripts were concerned, and less with wardrobe changes.

ADDED: I still didn't take her character seriously, but then this whole thread is about matters of subjective opinion.

novaderrik
2007-Nov-26, 01:18 AM
they might not help, but they surely don't hurt.
was Seven of Nine wearing a catsuit?
or how about that Vulcan in "Enterprise".. i can't even remember her name, or the events of most of the episodes i saw, but i remember her..

Doodler
2007-Nov-26, 01:34 AM
Does putting a hot actress into a catsuit actually boost the ratings? I mean with all the ample opportunities to see scantily clad woman, is anyone really going to turn on a scifi show because you might get a bit of nip.

Why the catsuit anyway? Surely something more subtle could achieve the T&A objective while not appearing so garish that it puts off people who would want to watch it for more serious reasons.

When they put Counselor Troi into a proper uniform mid season six, things became much better because we all of a sudden started to take her seriously. It would never have worked to have Troi training to become a bridge officer in season seven if she was still wearing the bunny suit.

Yes, it works. It worked for Voyager. Unfortunately, Jeri Ryan's rather magnificently large and well formed breasts simply could not overcome the awesome power of awful writing in the long run.

Lord Jubjub
2007-Nov-26, 01:39 AM
Oh yeah. 7 of 9 wore a catsuit. I thought it a little excessive at the time myself.

Nowhere Man
2007-Nov-26, 01:56 AM
Heh. I read that the first catsuit Jeri Ryan tried on made her pass out -- it was so tight she couldn't breathe properly.

I gave up on ST: Lost in Space long before she showed up.

Fred

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 02:15 AM
I could make the usual jokes here about "Borg implants" and "silicone-based life-forms", but it would be in bad taste so I won't.

nomuse
2007-Nov-26, 02:48 AM
What was particularly bizarre is that the "uniform" worn by Babe of Vulcan on "Enterprise" was, seemingly, shared by no other Vulcan civilian or military. Every other Vulcan on the show had on robes. So where the heck did she get the catsuit?


(Off the subject, I'm reminded of a story told in one of my books of a comic book author who described a character as wearing a catsuit. When the pages came back he discovered the illustrator had a more literal understanding of the term; to wit, the svelte female spy was elegantly dressed in tail, whiskers, and little ears.)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 03:13 AM
What was particularly bizarre is that the "uniform" worn by Babe of Vulcan on "Enterprise" was, seemingly, shared by no other Vulcan civilian or military. Every other Vulcan on the show had on robes. So where the heck did she get the catsuit?

Just one of the many, many problems Enterprise had. The pilot episode's "decon chamber stripdown rubdown" scene was especially blatant in this areola... Oops, I mean area.

nomuse
2007-Nov-26, 03:24 AM
All the way through that decon scene, I was going "They're NOT going there. They're NOT going further with this. Oh, no way."

Personally, I prefer costumes that leverage the Theiss Titillation Theory instead of being blatantly revealing.

But then this isn't really about catsuits per se. More of the uniforms on so many, many shows. Miniskirts on TOS. The mesh tops (and purple wigs!) of UFO. Easier to point at shows that buck the trend.

Aside from a "fetching little halter-top" here and there Carter from SG-1 has to be nearly unique as a strong female character in an SF or fantasy show that spends most of her on-screen time in pants, jacket -- even in helmet and camo paint! (But then, the SG-1 folk are some of very, very few that have discovered you live longer in a firefight if you hug the dirt and get behind solid objects: instead of posing dramatically in the open).

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 03:39 AM
I guess Vulcans really do have big pointy plastic... ears.

And remeber, 7of9's catsuit-and-stiletto-heels combo was, in story terms, explained as having been picked out for her by the HoloDoc; who, it was later revealed, fantasized about her.

Swift
2007-Nov-26, 02:36 PM
Does putting a hot actress into a catsuit actually boost the ratings? I mean with all the ample opportunities to see scantily clad woman, is anyone really going to turn on a scifi show because you might get a bit of nip.

They work for me... for about two episodes. Then I want to see some scriptwriting, acting and directing.

Lianachan
2007-Nov-26, 05:02 PM
I am reminded of the digital editing that was done to a promo photograph of Keira Knightley (http://www.posterwire.com/image.php?img_full=/wp-content/images/keira_king_arthur.jpg&img_title=King%20Arthur%20poster) for the poster for the King Arthur film, apparently for marketing in the US.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 05:25 PM
It may draw a few younger male viewers in, but to keep an audience worth having you need substance, not flash (no pun intended).

Doodler
2007-Nov-26, 06:28 PM
I am reminded of the digital editing that was done to a promo photograph of Keira Knightley (http://www.posterwire.com/image.php?img_full=/wp-content/images/keira_king_arthur.jpg&img_title=King%20Arthur%20poster) for the poster for the King Arthur film, apparently for marketing in the US.

In all fairness, Keira needs to put on about 30 pounds. Breasts are as good a place as any to start.

Stuart van Onselen
2007-Nov-26, 07:09 PM
Come on, we all know that Sci-Fi geeks are losers who can't get a real woman, which is why it's so easy to lead them by the, err, nose with a little T&A...

At least, that's what snooty, condescending network excrement, err, executives obviously believe, else they wouldn't keep pulling stunts like this.

Personally, I find this attitude (be it in Sci-Fi or anywhere else where they try to sell lousy junk using sex) highly offensive, because it implies that I (and all men in general) do not have control over our sexual urges, that we're merely Pavlovian beasts who can be manipulated at will.

Besides, I'm a purist. If I want to see a movie or play a video-game or watch a TV show, then I want to those things only, I do not want to perv over a woman's exposed assets. That's merely a distraction.

And when I am in the mood to perv over a woman's exposed assets, well, I'm an adult who has legal* access to media dedicated to that sort of thing. I don't have to pretend that I'm doing something else (like watching a movie) instead.

*) Legal, that is, unless I were to live in, say, Saudi Arabia or the US Deep South.

antoniseb
2007-Nov-26, 07:27 PM
Does putting a hot actress into a catsuit actually boost the ratings? I mean with all the ample opportunities to see scantily clad woman, is anyone really going to turn on a scifi show because you might get a bit of nip.

Why the catsuit anyway?

I saw a few episodes of Voyager that I wouldn't otherwise. Not because I was looking for something naughty, but, yes, because the look was appealing. As others above have mentioned, good writing might have kept me watching.

As to why the cat suit, Emma Peel could not have looked so athletic in a miniskirt and frills. The same is true for kick-boxing female Star Fleet officers.

NEOWatcher
2007-Nov-26, 07:40 PM
High heels on 7/9 was a bit much, but, I would assume it was to giver her a more assuming stature.

Also; the look on 7/9 added a bit to the humanity twist. I remember some instances (particularly early Kim encounters) where she was drooled over and didn't understand it. The look help reinforce this thought.

Otherwise, the costuming should fit the circumstance and character. Anything too much out there, and it does get rather "trashy".

nomuse
2007-Nov-26, 07:50 PM
I saw a few episodes of Voyager that I wouldn't otherwise. Not because I was looking for something naughty, but, yes, because the look was appealing. As others above have mentioned, good writing might have kept me watching.

As to why the cat suit, Emma Peel could not have looked so athletic in a miniskirt and frills. The same is true for kick-boxing female Star Fleet officers.

Apparently the makers of fighting games disagree.... http://www.estarland.com/images/products/31/27931/48594.jpg

Personally, I found Seven's look unattractive as well as distracting. Apparently some of the other cast also found it off-putting as well.

Worked for Emma Peel, though. But then Emma had variety and style going for her as well.

Swift
2007-Nov-26, 08:53 PM
As to why the cat suit, Emma Peel could not have looked so athletic in a miniskirt and frills. The same is true for kick-boxing female Star Fleet officers.
Emma Peel (http://davehill.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/dianariggphotographc12120257.jpeg). <sigh> We are now treading on sacred ground of my formative years.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-26, 10:07 PM
Oh yeah. 7 of 9 wore a catsuit. I thought it a little excessive at the time myself.
Being only eight at the time, I didn't notice. But I wanted to cut my hair short and die it blond to look like her. My dad said "Little girls do not cut their hair that short, maybe when you're older." So now I am older and have short hair. (In my natural color, though.)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-26, 10:52 PM
Being only eight at the time, I didn't notice. But I wanted to cut my hair short and die it blond to look like her. My dad said "Little girls do not cut their hair that short, maybe when you're older." So now I am older and have short hair. (In my natural color, though.)

Her hair wasn't really short, it was just worn pinned up.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-27, 01:27 AM
Her hair wasn't really short, it was just worn pinned up.
Well, mine is short and I am happy.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-27, 01:52 AM
The trouble is, even after 7 stopped wearing the catsuit, she just started wearing other, almost identical skintight catsuits in different color schemes instead of a standard uniform. The high heels even followed her from outfit to outfit.

Krel
2007-Nov-27, 02:09 AM
It was called the Emma Peeler ( http://www.tvacres.com/clothing_pants_emmapeelers.htm ), and it was nowhere near as tight as the catsuits they use on shows now. But then Diana Riggs had a very athletic role to play. I doubt that the actress today could do a fraction of the stunts, in the suits they have them in without suffering physical damage.

David.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-27, 02:17 AM
I doubt that the actress today could do a fraction of the stunts, in the suits they have them in without suffering physical damage.


Jennifer Garner seemed to do okay being athletic in tight outfits on Alias. I think I recall she did a fair number of her own stunts.

danscope
2007-Nov-27, 04:30 AM
Does putting a hot actress into a catsuit actually boost the ratings? I mean with all the ample opportunities to see scantily clad woman, is anyone really going to turn on a scifi show because you might get a bit of nip.

Why the catsuit anyway? Surely something more subtle could achieve the T&A objective while not appearing so garish that it puts off people who would want to watch it for more serious reasons.

When they put Counselor Troi into a proper uniform mid season six, things became much better because we all of a sudden started to take her seriously. It would never have worked to have Troi training to become a bridge officer in season seven if she was still wearing the bunny suit.
********************

Hi, Of course catsuits work !!! Look at Julie Newmar!!!!!!
The Batman TV shows would have been cancelled , but for a very beautifull and tall and exquisite Julie Newmar as " Catwoman ". She had better lines than
Batman. She moved better than Batman . Etc. etc.
And there was Erin Gray from the original Buck Rogers in the 25th C .
Yes .................. No question .

Best regards, Dan

Noclevername
2007-Nov-27, 05:20 AM
Mmmm... Erin Gray... <3<3<3

Then they went and spoiled it in the second season by taking her out of the spandex flight suit and putting her in some lame sailor suit. A bad decision among a whole season of bad decisions.

Van Rijn
2007-Nov-27, 05:48 AM
Mmmm... Erin Gray... <3<3<3

Then they went and spoiled it in the second season by taking her out of the spandex flight suit and putting her in some lame sailor suit. A bad decision among a whole season of bad decisions.

The second season was so bad, in so many ways, that I couldn't stand it even then, when I was much younger and there was little science fiction on TV.

But yes, she was good, as was Emma Peel. It depends more on the person than the suit, though. I didn't look twice at Counselor Troi.

Dave Mitsky
2007-Nov-27, 06:17 AM
ADDED: I still didn't take her character seriously, but then this whole thread is about matters of subjective opinion.

I might have taken Troi's character more seriously if Sirtis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Sirtis) hadn't invented that bizarre accent. It's a shame that she didn't use her natural speaking voice but that might have intruded on the "Frenchman" Picard's Shakespearean British accent. What was up with that anyway?

Dave Mitsky

jamestox
2007-Nov-27, 06:29 AM
Does putting a hot actress into a catsuit actually boost the ratings?
...
It would never have worked to have Troi training to become a bridge officer in season seven if she was still wearing the bunny suit.

Don't know about that, but how about a ship's captain in a bunny suit? (http://www.animegalleries.net/img/63473)

Tog
2007-Nov-27, 07:51 AM
High heels on 7/9 was a bit much, but, I would assume it was to giver her a more assuming stature.

Also; the look on 7/9 added a bit to the humanity twist. I remember some instances (particularly early Kim encounters) where she was drooled over and didn't understand it. The look help reinforce this thought.

Otherwise, the costuming should fit the circumstance and character. Anything too much out there, and it does get rather "trashy".

I read an interview with Jeri Ryan where she said the heels were here idea. It was something like: "There is no way I'm wearing a cat suit and not having heels." I want to say it was in TV Guide, in the same article where she talked about passing out because the suit was too tight.

Still, not enough reason to watch Voyager.

Avengers post-Emma Peel had no charm. It wasn't just the look of her though, it was an attitude that she brought to the show.

I've never seen Alias, and having seen the poster for Elektra will go out of my way to not see any action film with Jennifer Garner.

As for modern female actors in action roles., Charlize Theron used to do a lot of her own stunts until she was injured during the filming of Aeon Flux.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-27, 01:55 PM
I know the wrestler Lita (W.W.EFGXYZ$ or whatever the heck it is now) was severly injured doing a stunt on the TV show Dark Angel and almost lost her wrestling career as a result. She needed something like six months of physical therapy.

Charly
2007-Nov-27, 10:26 PM
I might have taken Troi's character more seriously if Sirtis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Sirtis) hadn't invented that bizarre accent. It's a shame that she didn't use her natural speaking voice ....
Dave Mitsky

Her natural cockney? Thats nothing like Picards accent, and is even more amusing.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-27, 11:24 PM
The trouble with the accent-- besides its inherent annoyance factor --is that it came from nowhere. It was meant to be a Betazoid accent, but Mrs. Roddenberry couldn't mimic it, so they added a line from Troy's mom about "That accent, just like your father's". But then when they show a hologram of her late dad, he spoke plain midwestern American.

Hmmm, just like your father... I wonder what accent the mailman had...

Jason
2007-Nov-27, 11:25 PM
Actually the real question is "why does Troi have an accent when neither of her parents does?" Both of her parents appeared on the show (though her father was dead) and neither had an accent.

jamestox
2007-Nov-28, 04:13 AM
Speaking from personal experience, it's probable Troi picked it up during Starfleet training - just as my family found out I'd absorbed some Joisy and Midwestern into my naturally Southern during my time in basic training. Accent is more an environmental factor than a genetic pass-down.

I never noticed the change, but the difference was immediately apparent the first time I spoke with my family in person following graduation.

Swift
2007-Nov-28, 03:23 PM
Speaking from personal experience, it's probable Troi picked it up during Starfleet training - just as my family found out I'd absorbed some Joisy and Midwestern into my naturally Southern during my time in basic training.
Ah yes, that famous San Francisco accent. ;)

Doodler
2007-Nov-28, 03:27 PM
Ah yes, that famous San Francisco accent. ;)

You'd be surprised. There are more accent variations than you'd think. Pittsburgh and Baltimore (along with most of central Maryland) have very distinct accents as well, though you seldom hear about them.

jamestox
2007-Nov-28, 03:57 PM
Ah yes, that famous San Francisco accent. ;)

Quite. Haight and Ashbury regional, of course.... :D

Our training group had a large number of northeasterners (Newark, Philly, several from New York, a couple from New Hampshire, etc) and quite a few cornbelt midwesterners, but basic was held in a southern state. The only other jinn-you-WINE southerner was from Anniston, Alabama and had a drawl you had to cut with a chainsaw. Poor guy got tagged to sound off a LOT just so the instructors could hear the accent.....

NEOWatcher
2007-Nov-28, 04:08 PM
Our training group had a large number of northeasterners ...
I am assuming here that you are not refering to your Star Fleet training. :think:

Noclevername
2007-Nov-28, 04:18 PM
Accent is more an environmental factor than a genetic pass-down.

More than zero? :)

Jason
2007-Nov-28, 04:25 PM
But if you picked up an accent in adulthood I would expect you to loose it again after enough time spent among people who don't speak with it.

jamestox
2007-Nov-28, 04:32 PM
I am assuming here that you are not refering to your Star Fleet training. :think:

:)

You assume correctly, sir.

jamestox
2007-Nov-28, 04:35 PM
But if you picked up an accent in adulthood I would expect you to loose it again after enough time spent among people who don't speak with it.

True enough, but most of the time, you don't really lose it so much as it softens a bit when you're an adult.

The accent, that is. :)

Noclevername
2007-Nov-28, 05:22 PM
I It's a shame that she didn't use her natural speaking voice but that might have intruded on the "Frenchman" Picard's Shakespearean British accent. What was up with that anyway?


It's not entirely implausible that someone who learned fluent English at a very young age, and grew up using it among English-speakers, would have no detectable French accent. And as Picard has been consistently shown as an admirer of Shakespearean theater, it makes sense that he'd adopt that style of speech. It may even be how he learned English in the first place, although most of the Bard's plays wouldn't exactly be appropriate for children (at least by modern standards).

Alasdhair
2007-Nov-28, 07:03 PM
Fourteen or thereabouts is supposed to be the cut-off age: languages learned before then are spoken with the "correct" accent (depending on who it is learned from, of course), those learned after are inflected with the speaker's normal accent.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-28, 07:16 PM
Fourteen or thereabouts is supposed to be the cut-off age: languages learned before then are spoken with the "correct" accent (depending on who it is learned from, of course), those learned after are inflected with the speaker's normal accent.

I think it also depends on the individual. Some adults can mimic accents or dialects perfectly after hearing them once, but some carry their native accent into every word at any age.

Doodler
2007-Nov-28, 08:15 PM
Speaking from personal experience, it's probable Troi picked it up during Starfleet training - just as my family found out I'd absorbed some Joisy and Midwestern into my naturally Southern during my time in basic training. Accent is more an environmental factor than a genetic pass-down.

I never noticed the change, but the difference was immediately apparent the first time I spoke with my family in person following graduation.

A friend of mine in high school was born in West Virginia, but you'd never believe it. Took me a few blinks to acknowledge it as fact.

He spoke with a fluent English accent (straight outta London), because he spent the bulk of his childhood there with his father on a Navy assignment.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-28, 08:43 PM
I don't know Star Trek, but is "Picard" supposed to be related to the famous balloonist family?

Noclevername
2007-Nov-28, 08:50 PM
I don't know Star Trek, but is "Picard" supposed to be related to the famous balloonist family?

Possible derivations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picard

jamestox
2007-Nov-29, 12:05 AM
KaiYeves, that would be Capt. Jean-Luc Picard. In the TV series Star Trek-The Next Generation, he was commanding officer of the United Federation of Planets (good guys - I'm simplifying here a bit) starship USS Enterprise. The ship was crewed by members of a quasi-military organization known as Starfleet Command. Troi mentioned earlier was Deanna Troi, ship's councilor(sp) and later "bridge qualified" as a command officer in the event of emergency. That kind of fills you in on some of the background.

If you're curious about the show, there's a Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) that will tell you more about it. Many of us here in the states grew up watching one of the several iterations of the show.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-29, 12:26 AM
Many of us here in the states grew up watching one of the several iterations of the show.

KaiYeves is from the States, she just isn't a fan of the show(s).

jamestox
2007-Nov-29, 12:47 AM
KaiYeves is from the States, she just isn't a fan of the show(s).

:) Which simply means she was not one of the "many," right? And after all, we do have international visitors on the forum, too.

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-29, 12:47 AM
Possible derivations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picard
As usual, I was wrong. The balloonists spell it with a double "c" and besides, they're Swiss.
What the heck do I mean by balloonists? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piccard) (The first mentioned.)

jamestox
2007-Nov-29, 12:56 AM
As usual, I was wrong. The balloonists spell it with a double "c" and besides, they're Swiss.
What the heck do I mean by balloonists? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piccard) (The first mentioned.)

Well, the story appears to be that ST-TNG's creator was inspired by the Piccard family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piccard). If you notice in the third paragraph, you weren't very far from the truth at all!

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-29, 01:13 AM
Well, the story appears to be that ST-TNG's creator was inspired by the Piccard family. If you notice in the third paragraph, you weren't very far from the truth at all!
Hurray! I did something right!

Halcyon Dayz
2007-Nov-29, 02:10 AM
Professor Piccard was also the inspiration for the Belgian comic character Professor_Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Calculus).

jamestox
2007-Nov-29, 02:31 AM
That was really neat, Halcyon Dayz. Thnx for the link!

nomuse
2007-Nov-29, 06:49 AM
You mean Tournesol?

:)

Halcyon Dayz
2007-Nov-29, 02:14 PM
You mean Tournesol?

:)

Oui.

mike alexander
2007-Nov-29, 05:13 PM
In a brief aside to the original topic, I think catsuits (nice shorthand for a tight, formfitting garment) work very well. The supportive function smooths and idealizes the form, with a result more sensual than overtly sexual. It shows everything yet reveals nothing, an interesting tension.

Noclevername
2007-Nov-29, 05:36 PM
In a brief aside to the original topic, I think catsuits (nice shorthand for a tight, formfitting garment) work very well. The supportive function smooths and idealizes the form, with a result more sensual than overtly sexual. It shows everything yet reveals nothing, an interesting tension.

Well, as far as the "shows nothing" aspect is concerned, many "catsuits" on TV are actually tight jumpsuits with cleavage. Sometimes even with a big zipper down the front for false modesty and between-shots inconsistencies.

danscope
2007-Nov-29, 08:49 PM
In a brief aside to the original topic, I think catsuits (nice shorthand for a tight, formfitting garment) work very well. The supportive function smooths and idealizes the form, with a result more sensual than overtly sexual. It shows everything yet reveals nothing, an interesting tension.

Hi, Well said, and in my opinion, they make the re-runs especially more entertaining!!! :)


Dan

KaiYeves
2007-Nov-29, 09:45 PM
Oui.
J'aime Tintin!