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Pi Man
2003-Aug-05, 03:44 AM
Since there is a java thread on the Against the Mainstream forum, and that forum is only astronomy related, I decided to continue it here.

Java and JavaScript are very different. I wanted to make a mention of the security in Java.

Java makes it impossible to run/delete/read/create/write/etc... files, but if somebody wants to be malicius, he can slow your computer to a crawl! Just make an applet that loads 500 or 600 windows, and you can hardly even move you mouse!

ToSeek
2003-Aug-05, 03:57 AM
I'll vote for assembly since it's the language I started with professionally. However, I've gotten so comfortable with OO languages (C++ and Java) that I'd probably get frustrated if I ever went back.

Humphrey
2003-Aug-05, 04:06 AM
i absolutely hate javascript. Especially when it is onn a website. makes everything slow.

I used to have it on mine, but it anoyed m,e so much. I hot rid of it.


I hit other. I like (x)HTML/css alot.

Basic too.

pmcolt
2003-Aug-05, 04:17 AM
VB's my best language. I grew up with basic, and things like semicolons, curly braces, and case sensitivity in C-derived languages still bug me. C# is sort of likeable. Java irritates me. I still create my personal websites in hand-written html, css, and javascript.

Karl
2003-Aug-05, 04:29 AM
Forth anyone? When I was programming I thought it was great.
When I became a project manager, I FORBID the programmers
to use it. :-)

First programming course was FORTRAN, along the way learned
BASIC, Pascal, Assembler, Algol, and a few others.

SNOBOL was an interesting one, and at the time I thought
PROLOG seemed very intuitive.

Pi Man
2003-Aug-05, 04:29 AM
My first programming language was QBasic. I was bored, and looking around my hard drive (on my old WIN3.1) and found QBasic.exe. After exploring the help file, I decided to go get a book on it. I can still program amazing things in QBasic.

After a while, I decided to try VBasic. I didn't get the hang of it for quite a while, considering I had QBasic experience.

Since then I have experimented with Assembly (Lots of fun. Tedious though.), MS-VC++6.0 (Got really frustrating. Never put a lot of my attention into it.), and HTML/JavaScript (Also a lot of fun. I was really sad when the BA upgraded to the new board and disabled HTML/Javascript).

Right now my favorite is Java. I didn't know it was as easy as it is, and you can embed them in your web pages! That's really cool!

ToSeek
2003-Aug-05, 02:31 PM
I dealt with BASIC in high school, then programming a couple of Texas Instrument calculators after that. My first programming classes were in COBOL, PL/I, assembler, and Fortran (in that order), but my first professional work (for about six years) was in assembler, followed by C, C++, and now Java.

kucharek
2003-Aug-05, 02:41 PM
Forth anyone? When I was programming I thought it was great.
When I became a project manager, I FORBID the programmers to use it. :-)
Many years ago, I liked Forth very much and really went into it. But never for money, pure as a hobby. Helped me a lot when later I did some programming stuff and had to feed PostScript printers. I became pretty proefficient in PostScript-programming.
As Forth has its origins in some stuff developed for astronomy software, Forth may be the only language the BA will allow to be discussed on his board :P

Mr. X
2003-Aug-05, 03:12 PM
OO languages, especially C++.

I started off with C, and it's fine. But I believe once you get into C++ there's no point in ever looking back to the old C days.

Not true, I started like most people with the TI calculator. Made a few programs, thought it was limited, moved on to C as I said.

TI language and BASIC are very bad languages to start off with. It promotes abuse of the GOTO in later languages, and I know that if people in my classes put a GOTO in a C or C++ program they'd be lined up in front of a wall and shot.

Assembly is fine, and many teachers still rave on about ASM and spit on every single other language.

One that should probably be there is ADA, the defense language that allows absolutely no loose ends. I've never tried it myself but I've heard it can make for some very solid programs.

girlgeek
2003-Aug-05, 04:41 PM
I chose C etc. I am still studying these in school and have not yet taken C++. I'm not that strong in Java, but am taking data structure using Java next semester so I will have lots of practice!

Have also studies Pascal, Fortran & Basic, but it was a few years ago....

girlgeek

Charlie in Dayton
2003-Aug-05, 04:49 PM
Majors in QBasic and Visual Basic, with a minor (more like a microscopic) in assembler.

I remember taking a course in "Computer Programmer Logic". To this day, I am firmly convinced there is no such thing. Flowcharts still give me the collywobbles... [-(

ToSeek
2003-Aug-05, 05:03 PM
Forth anyone? When I was programming I thought it was great.
When I became a project manager, I FORBID the programmers to use it. :-)
Many years ago, I liked Forth very much and really went into it. But never for money, pure as a hobby. Helped me a lot when later I did some programming stuff and had to feed PostScript printers. I became pretty proefficient in PostScript-programming.
As Forth has its origins in some stuff developed for astronomy software, Forth may be the only language the BA will allow to be discussed on his board :P

Forth is a really cool language, but I wouldn't want to use it for anything major.

Pi Man
2003-Aug-05, 05:24 PM
Forth? I've never heard of Forth. Can anybody tell me what it's like?

And, yes. I should have included ADA, but unfortunately there is a limit to the number of options you can put on a poll. If there wasn't, I'd have made seperate ones for C/C++ and Java, and added more like ADA. I wonder if the BA can make the polls be able to have more options.

And, I must be the worst enemy of HS algebra teachers everywhere. I've programmed games for the TI-83/83+ and for the TI-92/92+. Mostly for the 92 though. Since then, I haven't used my 92 much. I got a laptop! :D :D :D :D

ToSeek
2003-Aug-05, 06:15 PM
Forth? I've never heard of Forth. Can anybody tell me what it's like?



It Reverse Polish Notation uses. It backwards seems. It cryptic can be. Here example is:




\ fib ( x -- , returns first x numbers in Fibonacci sequence )

: fib { x -- } \ local index variable x
1 dup . \ initialize sequence & print initial values
1 dup .
begin
over over + \ add previous 2 numbers in sequence
dup . rot drop \ add new number to stack, drop bottom number
x 1- dup -> x 3 < \ decrement x, exit if x < 3
until
drop drop \ drop top 2 elements off stack
;



More simple examples (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExampleForthCode)

On the other hand, the power of Forth is that you can define your own words in the language (as "fib" is defined above), which you can then use to create a program. Properly done, it can be very powerful. Some of the flight software created by APL (where I used to work) was written in Forth, particularly the instrument control and interface software.

Pi Man
2003-Aug-05, 06:26 PM
It Reverse Polish Notation uses. It backwards seems. It cryptic can be. Here example is:

Yoda? Many years ago it was that I was your padawan! Can you still lift an x-wing without even getting a headache? :lol:

Anyway, thanks for the Forth example.

darkhunter
2003-Aug-05, 06:34 PM
It Reverse Polish Notation uses. It backwards seems. It cryptic can be. Here example is:

Yoda? Many years ago it was that I was your padawan! Can you still lift an x-wing without even getting a headache? :lol:

Anyway, thanks for the Forth example.

Wheres are the third and forth examples? :lol:

Pi Man
2003-Aug-05, 06:41 PM
Wheres are the third and forth examples? :lol:

Fairly corney, but funny anyway. :lol:

darkhunter
2003-Aug-05, 06:47 PM
Wheres are the third and forth examples? :lol:

Fairly corney, but funny anyway. :lol:

I'm a mechanic, not a comedian :lol:

kucharek
2003-Aug-05, 07:27 PM
On the other hand, the power of Forth is that you can define your own words in the language (as "fib" is defined above), which you can then use to create a program.
That is the equivalent of defining functions or procedures in other languages. But with Forth, you can even extend the language, e.g. define some new control structures.

Pi Man
2003-Aug-05, 07:39 PM
You mean define them so that you can easily import them into any Forth program you write (without copy-paste)? Or do you mean just defining new classes to use in the current program?

Karl
2003-Aug-05, 09:13 PM
You mean define them so that you can easily import them into any Forth program you write (without copy-paste)? Or do you mean just defining new classes to use in the current program?

It's an interpreter, when you define a new word, it is added to the symbol table and is available to execute. As long as a new word only uses words that are already defined, you can read them in from a file and use them in other programs.

The problem with it is that you keep defining your own new words/functions, so it becomes a "write-only" language.

Argos
2003-Aug-07, 07:37 PM
I like object-oriented languages in general (I use them in digital media applications). They are flexible and easy to write, especially if you need cross-platform extensibility. I vote for VB(*) (and derivatives), for its simplicity and versatility.

(*) In the VB handbooks it is sometimes refered to as an event-oriented language.

ToSeek
2003-Aug-07, 07:59 PM
I like object-oriented languages in general (I use them in digital media applications). They are flexible and easy to write, especially if you need cross-platform extensibility. I vote for VB(*) (and derivatives), for its simplicity and versatility.


Object-oriented languages are almost frighteningly powerful once you realize what you can do with them with patterns and such. The main problem I have is sometimes figuring out just which method in an inheritance tree you're calling when you invoke an object's method. It can be that object's method, a parent object's method, and, if it's an object passed to you, it might even be a child object's method. It makes debugging interesting sometimes.

Duane534
2003-Aug-07, 11:07 PM
Let's see.

First, I programmed on an old TI99/4A. That was essentially QBASIC.
After that, I worked on various calculators, all versions of BASIC.
Next, I learned bits and pieces of HTML, DHTML, Perl, and JavaScript building my website. HTML is SO EASY. I can't believe my school's system administrator uses FrontPage.
Next, I learned Rapid-Q BASIC (http://www.basicguru.com/rapidq/), which is like VB but better in every way. It can do everything a Microsoft compiler can do, without having to use extraneous DLLs or that .NET $#|+.
Last, I learned C++. Ugh. I never got over the fact it made a "Hello World" program like 20 lines long. And, since most of my programming is designed to do my math homework, I usually stick with Casio BASIC on my PDA or Rapid-Q for my published software that needs a Windows GUI.

In short, Rapid-Q is the best. It supports MySQL, DirectX, Direct3D, Sockets, and COM, so you can get all the functionality you need with BASIC and all the neato graphics with another language and roll it into one small executable.

freddo
2003-Aug-08, 01:04 AM
I like object-oriented languages in general (I use them in digital media applications). They are flexible and easy to write, especially if you need cross-platform extensibility. I vote for VB(*) (and derivatives), for its simplicity and versatility.


Object-oriented languages are almost frighteningly powerful once you realize what you can do with them with patterns and such. The main problem I have is sometimes figuring out just which method in an inheritance tree you're calling when you invoke an object's method. It can be that object's method, a parent object's method, and, if it's an object passed to you, it might even be a child object's method. It makes debugging interesting sometimes.

I always keep my little cue object definition cue-cards nearby when doing a lot of inheritance-dependant coding... That way I can look at the methods available for each class/object, and know what I'm passing from and to... Of course it does get tricky when you start extending functionality in child objects - you end up with several levels in the tree with the same methods - performing disparate tasks.
Fun.

Pi Man
2003-Aug-08, 03:10 AM
I'm currently working on my first game in Java! :D It's an applet, so it'll be postable online!

johnwitts
2003-Aug-12, 12:12 AM
I have no idea what you guys are on about... My only programming experience has been with Basic, on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum abck in the 80's and OPL, used on EPOC32 based PDA's (now called Symbian, I gather). I've had an OPL prog running constantly now for about 6 years, searching for primes and telling me the time (don't ask). It's not crashed for about 4 years. It's not had to be restarted. Is that a record?