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View Full Version : Dutch is visiting the Amazing Randi and the JREF folks.



Mister Earl
2007-Dec-13, 10:23 PM
He's putting forth his HDD theories there. I don't think they'll fare any better than when he proposed them here. It doesn't seem he's added anything to the basic setup he's had before.

Link for anyone who'd like to join in what is almost guaranteed to be a lively debate:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=75565&page=14

Noclevername
2007-Dec-13, 10:27 PM
Of the title sentence, I recognized the words "is visiting". For the rest of us, what's the rest mean?

KaiYeves
2007-Dec-13, 10:28 PM
Of the title sentence, I recognized the words "is visiting". For the rest of us, what's the rest mean?
James Randi is a famous magician, skeptic and a friend of the BA. The JREF (James Randi Educational Foundation) is is organization.

Noclevername
2007-Dec-13, 10:33 PM
And Dutch and his HDD?

KaiYeves
2007-Dec-13, 10:34 PM
And Dutch and his HDD?
No clue.

Van Rijn
2007-Dec-13, 10:37 PM
Dutch is a former poster here with some ideas about astrology, who had a habit of making retrodictions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrodiction) that would be clear to anyone who read the news. Essentially, he represented an extreme case of confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias). If you showed him, straight out, how he was wrong, he'd ignore what you showed him, and find something new to support his beliefs. Anyway, he had his thirty days for ATM, and then some, but was banned for continuing to push his ideas after the limit. Apparently he went to JREF to start up the same story.

01101001
2007-Dec-13, 11:01 PM
Modestly twisting the whimsical ideas of why06 (topic A User's Union (http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/60299-users-union.html)), perhaps there should be a Union of Rational Discussion Forums. Offend one by your attitude and method, and you offend them all. An efficient blacklist will save everyone time over the current ponderous process of getting serially banned, one by one, and more quickly get the deserving type of poster before a more appropriate audience, into a discussion forum where all sorts of personalities are equally welcome regardless of class.

"You'll never work in this business again, kid."

Noclevername
2007-Dec-13, 11:13 PM
Modestly twisting the whimsical ideas of why06 (topic A User's Union (http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/60299-users-union.html)), perhaps there should be a Union of Rational Discussion Forums. Offend one by your attitude and method, and you offend them all. An efficient blacklist will save everyone time over the current ponderous process of getting serially banned, one by one, and more quickly get the deserving type of poster before a more appropriate audience, into a discussion forum where all sorts of personalities are equally welcome regardless of class.

"You'll never work in this business again, kid."

It'd never work. The serial offenders have the option of going to less discriminating fora now, and refuse to use it. If multi-banned, they'd simply redouble their sock-puppeting efforts to get back into the big leagues. They don't just want to be "right", they want all those who disagreed to admit they were wrong.

Halcyon Dayz
2007-Dec-14, 12:57 AM
Dutch has been all over the 'net.
I don't think anybody ever took him serious.

One must admire his stamina though.

(I hope he isn't actually Dutch.)
ETA: Heck, he is. :o

MentalAvenger
2007-Dec-14, 05:37 AM
It'd never work. The serial offenders have the option of going to less discriminating fora now, and refuse to use it. If multi-banned, they'd simply redouble their sock-puppeting efforts to get back into the big leagues. They don't just want to be "right", they want all those who disagreed to admit they were wrong.To use the vernacular, “You said a mouthful”. You hit the nail squarely upon the head. Very astute of you. Until they can get everyone else to admit that they were wrong, they continue their irrational drivel ad infinitum. I almost hate to degrade the term “stereo” in describing these folks as stereotypical.

Tog
2007-Dec-14, 08:35 AM
And Dutch and his HDD?

HDD stands for Hyper-Dimentional Design. I think I understood what he was saying, and I got a lot of his system down well enough that I think I could use it as well as he did. Basically, the mechanics of it was that you plot the Earth's orbit as a perfect circle, then plot a square, diamond and 2 triangles over this orbit. Anywhere the points touched the circle was a trigger date. Something "significant" would happen on those dates. If something "significant" happened on any other date, then you count 555, 911, or 1,111 days before and after that event to find a related event, thus "proving" the system. There was also a +/- 1 day margin for error. It worked out that for any given three month period the odds of something "significant" that related to the event were about 1 in 4 due to the number of dates available. That is, if my birthday was the event, over the next 100 days, 25 of those could be tied to my birthday and literally anything that had even the slightest connection to my birthday would be seen as a hit.

He was also big on synchronicities. I share my birthday with Denzel Washington, and have a last name that looks very similar to Denzel, so there is a definite connection there. If the film Deja Vu, with Denzel Washington, happened to be on TV on a date that linked to my birthday, then it was further "proof" that his system was valid because that movie had to do with time travel and fixing the future by correcting the past. There was also a link to terrorism, so that tied in to the WTC, the London bombings, Madrid, and the assassination of former PM Hariri (it always came back to that somehow).

The best example is the end of his ATM post where I replied to something he said, then Van Rijn did a search based on part of what I said, showing that for a given period there were actually several hundred stories that fit the bill. Dutch used the fact that Van Rijn posted something about something I posted, about something Dutch Posted to be proof that synchronicities rules the universe.

One last bit that he talked about but we never really go into much was his idea that all the bad stuff in the world is happening because people are not as nice to each other as we could be. Like the slime in Ghostbusters 2, the universe reacts to negativity with negativity. This all came together to drive home the point that humans should avoid all things nuclear and stay out of space.

And that is basically the entire idea that spanned 5 months and well over 1000 posts last year.

Torsten
2007-Dec-14, 10:10 AM
I wonder how he explains his final post count.

Tog
2007-Dec-14, 10:34 AM
I wonder how he explains his final post count.

Same as everything else. Word Salad.

WaxRubiks
2007-Dec-14, 12:26 PM
I believe in a structure, to the Universe, at all levels, as in synchronicity, but Dutch's stuff is just waffle.

sts60
2007-Dec-14, 05:16 PM
HDD stands for Hyper-Dimentional Design. I think I understood what he was saying, and I got a lot of his system down well enough that I think I could use it as well as he did. Basically, the mechanics of it was that you plot the Earth's orbit as a perfect circle, then plot a square, diamond and 2 triangles over this orbit. Anywhere the points touched the circle was a trigger date. Something "significant" would happen on those dates. If something "significant" happened on any other date, then you count 555, 911, or 1,111 days before and after that event to find a related event, thus "proving" the system. There was also a +/- 1 day margin for error. It worked out that for any given three month period the odds of something "significant" that related to the event were about 1 in 4 due to the number of dates available. That is, if my birthday was the event, over the next 100 days, 25 of those could be tied to my birthday and literally anything that had even the slightest connection to my birthday would be seen as a hit.
I pointed out to him (and was hardly alone in this) that Earth's orbit is not a circle, and that a year is not 365 days, and in the time spans he was using he routinely accumulated errors considerably in excess of a day, and that he had no basis for using a margin of +/- 1 day anyway. But such criticisms bounce right off him, as did the many other deficiencies of hypergibble which were explained to him.

He was also big on synchronicities. I share my birthday with Denzel Washington, and have a last name that looks very similar to Denzel, so there is a definite connection there. If the film Deja Vu, with Denzel Washington, happened to be on TV on a date that linked to my birthday, then it was further "proof" that his system was valid because that movie had to do with time travel and fixing the future by correcting the past. There was also a link to terrorism, so that tied in to the WTC, the London bombings, Madrid, and the assassination of former PM Hariri (it always came back to that somehow).

The best example is the end of his ATM post where I replied to something he said, then Van Rijn did a search based on part of what I said, showing that for a given period there were actually several hundred stories that fit the bill. Dutch used the fact that Van Rijn posted something about something I posted, about something Dutch Posted to be proof that synchronicities rules the universe.
Yep, another very funny part of hypergibble is how he ascribes as much physical meaning to the date a newspaper or Web article appears about an event as he does to the event itself.

One last bit that he talked about but we never really go into much was his idea that all the bad stuff in the world is happening because people are not as nice to each other as we could be. Like the slime in Ghostbusters 2, the universe reacts to negativity with negativity. This all came together to drive home the point that humans should avoid all things nuclear and stay out of space.
He put on a wonderful display of backpedaling, handwaving, and word-redefining when I pointed out the enormous success with which the two had been combined - specifically, the 100% record of operation as designed of U.S. nuclear power systems in space. He basically responded with, "it depends on what you mean by 'successful'".

And that is basically the entire idea that spanned 5 months and well over 1000 posts last year.
Yeah, Dutch likes to hear himself talk. I suspect, much like good old rocky/david, he's really just a computer program somewhere in an endless "scan news- excerpt - run through hypergibble filter - cycle through canned responses to critics" loop. Since the JREF forums do not formally require someone to actually defend their claims, he can churn out page after page of this vapor.

Van Rijn
2007-Dec-15, 01:27 AM
The best example is the end of his ATM post where I replied to something he said, then Van Rijn did a search based on part of what I said, showing that for a given period there were actually several hundred stories that fit the bill. Dutch used the fact that Van Rijn posted something about something I posted, about something Dutch Posted to be proof that synchronicities rules the universe.


That was funny, but also demonstrated that there is no possibility of reasoning with him. Dutch posted a link to a news article supposedly showing how a prediction he had made had come true. I did a google search and found that there were hundreds of articles online going back months that fitted his "prediction." His "prediction" literally couldn't miss: There were multiple stories that matched it each and every day. Indications were that the only reason I didn't pick up more articles was that I had hit the limit on the Google news history buffer. :lol:

Anyway, I posted links to a few out of the hundreds of articles showing how stories went back month by month, and he latched onto the date of one of those stories as "proof" of his numerology, ignoring what it said about the "prediction."

The Backroad Astronomer
2007-Dec-15, 08:56 AM
Also over at the jref site the electric universe is appering over there now. Work has not banned that site yet. I avoid the Dutch thread like my life depended on it expect to of crud here he is again.

WaxRubiks
2007-Dec-15, 09:15 AM
it would be funny if everywhere Dutch goes there are blindingly obvious signs like the cheerios in his cereal bowl line up and say "idiot" or "Dutch, thou art a wolly" appear in the clouds in the sky....yet he is oblivious...

Maksutov
2007-Dec-15, 03:13 PM
Graphical representation of Dutch's HDD universe:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1390/grohddupf8.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grohddupf8.jpg)

KaiYeves
2007-Dec-15, 07:10 PM
it would be funny if everywhere Dutch goes there are blindingly obvious signs like the cheerios in his cereal bowl line up and say "idiot" or "Dutch, thou art a wolly" appear in the clouds in the sky....yet he is oblivious...
Like in all of those books the kids walk by signs that say "Danger!" "Turn Back!" "Haunted house!" and still keep going like dunderheads.

HenrikOlsen
2007-Dec-16, 07:03 PM
Everyone knows the signs "Danger!", "Turn Back!", "Haunted house", "Don't go near the Castle" and "Trespassers will be persecuted" is put up by the ghosts/vampires to get teenagers to come and have sex there so they are no longer protected by innocence and can be eaten with impunity.

KaiYeves
2007-Dec-16, 09:19 PM
Everyone knows the signs "Danger!", "Turn Back!", "Haunted house", "Don't go near the Castle" and "Trespassers will be persecuted" is put up by the ghosts/vampires to get teenagers to come and have sex there so they are no longer protected by innocence and can be eaten with impunity.
I wasn't talking about teenagers, I was talking about little kids in Halloween storybooks. Granted, nothing terrible happens to them, but for heaven's sake, can't they read?

Oost
2009-Sep-09, 10:38 AM
Dutch is not allowed to post at BAUT forum but he would really like to talk about what has been said here in this thread. He would like to invite posters in this thread to come over at HDDesign forum in this specific thread :

Bad Astronomy and Universe Today forum
http://hddesign.forumup.nl/about239-hddesign.html

you can login with 'reader' password 'reader'

HenrikOlsen
2009-Sep-09, 05:31 PM
Posts on behalf of other people are not allowed by our rules.

If Dutch lost the privilege of posting here, having his thoughts posted by someone else counts as an attempt at circumventing that loss.

Please stop trying.

Oost
2009-Sep-19, 09:49 PM
Well,

Dutch posts about everyone elses thoughts so I guess I better back off

Mister Earl
2009-Sep-25, 11:23 AM
I was PM'd by Oost asking that I hop on over to Dutch's forum.

I for one will not. Simply put, his HDD hypothesis has been shot down so many times it's insane, and I won't post on a forum where Dutch has complete administrative control. It's entirely possible he routinely retroactively alters old posts of his and changes what other people say or deletes text, either his own or others. This forum of his is set up with the express intent on proving himself right. Since this cannot be done via proving HDD works, since it does not, that tells me that he intends to carry this out via other means.

To summarize, I smell a rat.

BigDon
2009-Sep-28, 04:52 AM
Origina post by sts60


I pointed out to him (and was hardly alone in this) that Earth's orbit is not a circle, and that a year is not 365 days, and in the time spans he was using he routinely accumulated errors considerably in excess of a day, and that he had no basis for using a margin of +/- 1 day anyway. But such criticisms bounce right off him, as did the many other deficiencies of hypergibble which were explained to him.

Yeah, but when the stars align and he brings the shoggoth hordes down on our heads you'll be sorry you laughed at him.